Persona 3 Mafia - Game Cancelled - Mass Destronktion

[Eurykins]

Junko: At the moment Shinori got shot he WAS being very aggresive. That sort of behaviour might seem scummy to some people, so if the Dayvig is town it might be possible that he/she thought Shinori was scum and took the shot.

Judging from the timing of the shots (Both of them happened EARLY in the day, as in before 24 hours have passed), I am inclined to believe that our dayvig might either have unlimited or else a LOT of shots, since he/she doesn't seem worried about making every shot count.

Unless I'm mistaken, the time frame in which FFM was shot, he was under fire, no? (Or at least people were beginning to suspect him) If this is true, then it coincides with Shinori's death as well, in terms of having the kill aimed at the main person who was under fire by the start of the day phase. So in that case, perhaps the shots aren't being made as carelessly as you're making it sound like.

Hmm wasn't I at L_1 at one point? One more vote would have ended me. And there was no doubt that someone was going to vote. I also did say that I would have to believe Terradors claim at the moment in one post.

Fairly sure you were at L-2. And with Mitsuki dead, there's no means of quick-hammering instantly with one vote post, AND we were ALL waiting for your posts/answers. No townie in their right mind would hammer you without your claims (as you were also clearly withholding information that we were all interested in knowing), so once again there was no reason for you to be panicking and/or assuming you were going to be lynched instantly.

And I feel inclined to say (with regards to the bolded statement): You playing the role of a doc is either making you hyper paranoid, or otherwise you yourself just don't trust the rest of us townies (or you're hiding more than you care to let on). I'm not saying you shouldn't be careful/smart with how you play, but the paranoia/chaotic aspect of your posting both before/in Day 1 and in D2 so far is what's been creating a lot of uncertainty with you and your gameplay in our eyes. That along with your reaction to Shinori's death is what made us turn and focus on you soon after.

I get what you're saying Eury, which is why I'm not voting Terrador atm

Also guys keep in mind if Refa revived someone he would die, meaning that wouldn't really by a day phase for mafia.

And that's true; and I'm tempted to agree with Kop on this one that, if the recruitment ability had still been in play, then it would've made for a powerful asset for town to have if he were recruited successfully. (But since that function was taken out due to a last-minute change, that ability in itself [and Refa kicking the bucket like a scrub, lol] was kinda useless all around.)

[Junk]

Guh looking at Bluedooms ISO there is plenty to suggest that he might be town. If Bluedoom was scum I doubt he would say I was town repeatedly, rather he would aboard the wagon that would be my death sentence. In fact defending a townie like me to this extent basically is very anti scum.And apparently Bluedoom posted something which for some reason my internet did not tell me he replied. Also guys I have a feeling if a vote manipulator is still around he may be third party. If you look at FFM's reaction to the votes he was confused as well. If the vote manipulator was scum FFM would not have acted confused. Anyway to far into this might get me modkilled for rolespecing but just thought I would point that out because it may be important.

[Eurykins]

Guh looking at Bluedooms ISO there is plenty to suggest that he might be town. If Bluedoom was scum I doubt he would say I was town repeatedly, rather he would aboard the wagon that would be my death sentence. In fact defending a townie like me to this extent basically is very anti scum.And apparently Bluedoom posted something which for some reason my internet did not tell me he replied. Also guys I have a feeling if a vote manipulator is still around he may be third party. If you look at FFM's reaction to the votes he was confused as well. If the vote manipulator was scum FFM would not have acted confused. Anyway to far into this might get me modkilled for rolespecing but just thought I would point that out because it may be important.

1. I don't think it necessarily takes a townie to say/call someone townie repeatedly. They can be, but they don't have to be. (Scum can easily do so in order to buddy up with someone that they think seems townie enough). So that in itself is not the cleanest/safest assumption to make, nor is it the strongest of logics to run with regarding reads on someone.

2. Hopping on the wagon/hammering you before you could claim would come off as extremely scummy to most of us, I'd think- especially if you had your flip and ended up being our town doc. (Regardless of if Blue was town or scum himself, the act of hammering you like that would make him look bad.)

3. Underlined part is true for the most part (unless he's defending you to, again, buddy with you and gain town cred. Especially since you claimed doc- generally a solid townie claim.)

4. Probably safe to assume that the vote manipulator (unless otherwise claimed/proven to be utilized in a townie manner) is a third party or otherwise.

5. FFM's reaction alone could have been fabricated, just as some of his interactions with Refa (as stated in Shinori's case) seemed highly questionable/odd, or they could have been legit. In addition, I'm sure it would've seem more odd/out of place if FFM didn't react the way he did regarding the votes moving everywhere (if he acted like he expected it to happen or that it was nothing out of the ordinary, I'm sure most would question his lack of response to what was seen as a random vote manipulation), so in that sense, it's hard to really tell in that case.

Anyways, I'm tired and I have class tomorrow, so I'm heading off for the night. Sleep well all, and will check back in tomorrow when I get home.

[Eurykins]

EDIT: (Bolded part = edited in)

2. Hopping on the wagon/hammering you before you could claim would come off as extremely scummy to most of us, I'd think- especially if you had your flip and ended up being our town doc. (Regardless of if Blue was town or scum himself, the act of hammering you like that would make him look bad.) Therefore, I doubt scum!Bluedoom nor town!Bluedoom would risk aiding to a quickhammer action like that (which makes the fact that he didn't jump on the wagon a null tell at best, imo.)

[Junk]

1. I don't think it necessarily takes a townie to say/call someone townie repeatedly. They can be, but they don't have to be. (Scum can easily do so in order to buddy up with someone that they think seems townie enough). So that in itself is not the cleanest/safest assumption to make, nor is it the strongest of logics to run with regarding reads on someone.

2. Hopping on the wagon/hammering you before you could claim would come off as extremely scummy to most of us, I'd think- especially if you had your flip and ended up being our town doc. (Regardless of if Blue was town or scum himself, the act of hammering you like that would make him look bad.)

3. Underlined part is true for the most part (unless he's defending you to, again, buddy with you and gain town cred. Especially since you claimed doc- generally a solid townie claim.)

4. Probably safe to assume that the vote manipulator (unless otherwise claimed/proven to be utilized in a townie manner) is a third party or otherwise.

5. FFM's reaction alone could have been fabricated, just as some of his interactions with Refa (as stated in Shinori's case) seemed highly questionable/odd, or they could have been legit. In addition, I'm sure it would've seem more odd/out of place if FFM didn't react the way he did regarding the votes moving everywhere (if he acted like he expected it to happen or that it was nothing out of the ordinary, I'm sure most would question his lack of response to what was seen as a random vote manipulation), so in that sense, it's hard to really tell in that case.

Anyways, I'm tired and I have class tomorrow, so I'm heading off for the night. Sleep well all, and will check back in tomorrow when I get home.

True but Bluedoom was defending me before I even stated my claim. I think he was defending me back when mitsuki suspected me. It just seems very odd to do that considering there was no gain at that time. At that time I was just a dumb townie with nothing significant at all besides constantly changing my mind.

[Wen Yang]

Going off for now, back in 14-15 hours.

[Breezy Kanzaki]

Okay sorry for literally not posting at all.

School stuff and I think I might be getting sick and that's besides the point.

I'll get some stuff up after school which is about 2:30 my time (about 8 hours from this post)

[Zkirsche]

[spoiler=SB would be proud]

WHY ARE OUR VIGS SHOOTING ANYONE EXCEPT JUNKO/SKY/GP/KOPF?!

SHINORI WASN'T EVEN SCUMMY I DON'T EVEN

Fucking hell.

Town probably don't have an alternate nightvig and a multishot dayvig btw. One of them is probably scum, which I guess answers the question above but seriously.

Junko's summary of my D2 is horrible but DOC CLAIM FFS. ##Unvote

I have no fucking clue, but ##Vote:Kopfjager until he actually answers my question.

Kopf > GP > Terrador > Sky > Everyone else

[Zkirsche]

It just occurred to me that Shinori probably checked Kopf and if he got a guilty he would've pushed him.

##Unvote

##Vote:Green Poet

Goddamnit.

[Zkirsche]

Ok that's enough RAGING time for some serious analysis.

The people that want to ISO me should use the ISOs given in the OP then change the name to "kirsche" it really isn't that hard.

Can confirm that Wen tracked Terrador.

Voyeur variant confirmed. Out of interest, why was Wen not part of the people you wanted to hear from considering he was an investigative role which you were apparently so interested in? That list looks really arbitrary.

Wen: He could be scum, BUT if he defends himself poorly, he's getting lynched anyway.

Sky_Paladin: As Wen, but scummier in my opinion.

"I don't want to shoot the people who I feel are scummy that we're going to waste the next 72 hours arguing over"

EUKLYD: He's made one constructive post all game

Compared to Breezy/Bluedoom who had made 0.

not to mention that his online status is private!

So is mine, am I scum?

He also makes a half-assed case against lynching Refa

Why was it half-assed? Details, man.

(w.r.t. Shinori) His online status is public

This is not indicative of alignment at all.

...That's all I have time for before my next lecture.

GP > Terrador > Sky > Junko > Everyone else

Junko is back on there because fakes exist.

[Wen Yang]

Kirsche: Which Question? I checked your ISO but I don't think I saw any question directed especially to me.

Also, the thing with me/GP/Junko/SP is about the votechanger thing I assume?

Keep in mind that it's possible that said votechanger might have put in his/her action earlier but Poly wasn't around and only got to actually doing it later. I mean, I could leave a night action in advance for when I wasn't around, so I don't see why this won't be possible.

Other than that, do you have a reason to suspect GP? He doesn't strike me as suspicious so far.

[Zkirsche]

My reasons for suspecting GP is in my ISO. Lots of odd things and stuff like forging lists of people he wants to hear from which have nothing to do with how scummy they are but how townie they are, the probability that they're an investigative role and how active they are. GP is a woman btw.

The "question" is more like "please can you address the attacks on you" because I don't recall you ever respondng to Shinori's wall. Like I said you're probably town though unless Shinori was silly as well in which case ggwp.

TBH I suppose it does matter when Poly himself comes online, as if he isn't online when someone does that then we wouldn't be updated for a while. Actually from PoE, assuming GP voyeur, you tracker and Junko Doc it would have to be Sky. Iunno maybe I'm just overreacting because I think those kills came from nowhere, especially that daykill. Shinori gets mad easily guys, have you not read my interactions with him in an OC game ever?

What's there to stop them from just shooting the fakeclaimer?

They might be out of shots.

I just want to point out that a dayvig with no shots might not be killed over our doc/nightvig/tracker/insomniac voyeur and if they are it'd be who they are which would likely happen regardless of whether they claimed or not. Dayvig might actually be scum because town!dayvig would shoot a vig cc.

The sad thing about Terrador is that despite the absolutely atrocious reads and reasons behind them, he makes a good enough case here:

Now, which seems likelier to you:

A: There were three anti-town kills that night, in a fifteen-person game with an extra Mafia nightkill eliminated

B: There were two anti-town kills and a town kill that night.

So remove Terrador from that list. I think I might have to reread Sky/Eury and start questioning Breezy/Marth more because those two haven't done much of note.

I don't think a lot of people will agree with me on that.

I agree, but there's no point arguing about how swingy the setup is now, we should just take what we have and work with it.

Marth do you have a proper case on SP other than PoE and the fact that he got caught up in SB's reaction test? From your penultimate post that's all I can really get from you.

[Green Poet]

My reasons for suspecting GP is in my ISO. Lots of odd things and stuff like forging lists of people he wants to hear from which have nothing to do with how scummy they are but how townie they are, the probability that they're an investigative role and how active they are.

Pretty sure I've addressed this at least twice so far, once in response to you and once to Eury.

I'm asking my townreads and lurkers to post because I feel that their posts would be the most reliable, and telling, respectively. How is that scummy?

Voyeur variant confirmed.

If you believe that I'm a voyeur variant, then aren't you ceding that I did target Wen, who targeted Terrador? Terrador confirmed Wen's action, thus confirming mine.

Then, why would scum!me choose to investigate Wen, who was under suspicion by Marth, Junko, yourself, Eury and Terrador D1 and could thus easily be mislynched D2? Scum investigators should have targeted people like myself, Eury and Terrador, who'd been the generally assented townreads of the previous day. I'd only investigate Wen if I was town, and thus your case on me contradicts your belief of my role.

The sad thing about Terrador is that despite the absolutely atrocious reads and reasons behind them, he makes a good enough case here:

(Terrador quote) "Now, which seems likelier to you:

A: There were three anti-town kills that night, in a fifteen-person game with an extra Mafia nightkill eliminated

B: There were two anti-town kills and a town kill that night."

So remove Terrador from that list.

Why are Terrador's cases poor, and how can you qualify that judgment with a single display of logic from him? Clearing someone because they made one good point about setup speculation, and not anything to do with their nightvig claim, seems like pretty selective reading to me.

[MRDRHAWK]

OP updated with working ISOs and whatnot.

Also, SB flip edited slightly because I forgot something in his initial role PM that I really shouldn't have. (This is why I need to not lose my original role PMs and have to redo them lol).

Nothing else changes.

[Green Poet]

ISO'd Breezy, and I'm feeling better about a lynch on him today as well.

[spoiler=Breezy]

-Made 13 posts since game start.

-Eight, arguably nine, are game-related.

-Most are content-less posts that attribute his inactivity to his skimming ("Wow, did I really miss Refa's claim? Sorry." "I must've missed that when skimming Refa's claim.")

-Explicitly states that he's riding the Refa wagon here, on the reasoning that Refa could revive FFM. Sure, that's true, but says nothing about Refa's alignment; it's simply a line of logic that rides the conclusion that FFM is dead and thus a potential revive target, which was common knowledge. The case on Refa is weak and arguably illogical, and it feels as though Breezy's just trying to coast through the game.

-Posts like this feel padded, as if posting for the sake of posting. It's essentially saying "Let's go scumhunt, guys!" while not scumhunting himself. That brings me to the last point:

-Breezy has offered no scumreads at all other than his wagon jump on Refa, which I deconstructed above.

So yeah... not looking too great atm, Breezy. His last post suggests that he'll be back later today to contribute; hopefully he delivers.

Going to ISO kirsche and Marth next. Getting scummy vibes from the former, and I need to take a look at the reasons why a lot of people have scumreads on the latter.

[Breezy Kanzaki]

I think one SK + two lethal mafia, much less three lethal mafia, is unlikely, and if a townie inadvertently contributed to one of last night's deaths using a drive or other form of redirect, I would advise them to claim now and explain their choice of targets.

Likewise, if SB successfully masoned anybody last night, they should claim now. The effect is useless now that he's dead, and we can use the inevitable CCs along with other outed actions to his mason target to narrow down who was not masoned, and thus likely to be scum.

I myself have infinite Insomnia, which I obviously used last night. I may have used other action(s), and would prefer to hear from Eury, Breezy, Terrador and Shinori before I reveal anything.

@Bold This right here I'd like to focus in on in particular after this part below me* for now so I can have something up before finishing my homework.

We can infer that SB died by finding a scum/ITP by being the Mason, obvious.

Terradork himself said to have killed Euk. Okay.

And Mitsuki was probably killed by a scum, because I have my doubts on giving town 2 night kills and the shot in the day.

If Junko's claim of Doc is correct, he's clear from being scum.

Wen/Kopf claimed to be the tracker and proved of Terra's shooting of Euk. That should clear him.

Terra's already cleared because he said he killed Euk last night.

That leaves the following people to be scum:

Blue/Marth

GP

Eury

Sky

Or Kirsche

I'm gonna be heading back and reading through all the above's ISO's and see who out of them had reasons to kill Mitsuki.

The fact that you have allegedly claimed to have another night action with the bold and not said anything as of yet, seems a tad suspicious from my end of the spectrum.

[Green Poet]

Looked at the edit to SB's flip. Yes, it's essentially a given now that he died because he tried to recruit scum, which makes his associative reads very important.

This is his last list of scumspects before he died, which tells us that he didn't try to target Sky, myself, Junko, nor Wen. We also know he didn't try to target Mistuki nor Euk, who flipped town, so that leaves Terrador, Breezy, Eury, Marth, and kirsche. At least one of these people are guaranteed scum.

In terms of activity level, those five were going about Terra = Eury > Marth > kirsche >>>> Breezy. Thus, either Terrador or Eury is highly likely to be scum, especially given their high townie-like activity the last day phase and tendency to be the correspondent that SB wanted.

[Green Poet]

We can infer that SB died by finding a scum/ITP by being the Mason, obvious.

Terradork himself said to have killed Euk. Okay.

And Mitsuki was probably killed by a scum, because I have my doubts on giving town 2 night kills and the shot in the day.

If Junko's claim of Doc is correct, he's clear from being scum.

Wen/Kopf claimed to be the tracker and proved of Terra's shooting of Euk. That should clear him.

Terra's already cleared because he said he killed Euk last night.

If you think Terra confirming Wen's track is reason enough to clear the both of them, then my confirming Wen's track also clears me... but you don't come to that conclusion?

And even then, Terra is in no way clear for having killed Euk. We only know that he certainly killed Euk; we have no way of knowing if he was simply just the one who carried out the mafia NK.

And in Junko's case, we have no one claiming to have investigated him, so we have no way of clearing him as doc.

I like that you're posting analytical content now, but your reasoning for wanting to clear each of the people that you do is rather shaky.

The fact that you have allegedly claimed to have another night action with the bold and not said anything as of yet, seems a tad suspicious from my end of the spectrum.

This line is really quite concerning.

I'm clearly keeping the details of my role hidden so that scum can't use it to prioritize their NK. Keeping knowledge of town PRs hidden is the opposite of suspicious behavior.

Yet you find my precautions suspicious, as if to imply that I should fullclaim? How would that help town? And why would I elaborate on my claim when so many of us believe I'm town, and I'm not in danger of being lynched?

[Zkirsche]

Pretty sure I've addressed this at least twice so far, once in response to you and once to Eury. Yeah and I'm not buying it. See #910 and read past "Voyeur variant confirmed" this time please.

I'm asking my townreads and lurkers to post because I feel that their posts would be the most reliable, and telling, respectively. How is that scummy?

If you believe that I'm a voyeur variant, then aren't you ceding that I did target Wen, who targeted Terrador? Terrador confirmed Wen's action, thus confirming mine.

Then, why would scum!me choose to investigate Wen, who was under suspicion by Marth, Junko, yourself, Eury and Terrador D1 and could thus easily be mislynched D2? Scum investigators should have targeted people like myself, Eury and Terrador, who'd been the generally assented townreads of the previous day. I'd only investigate Wen if I was town, and thus your case on me contradicts your belief of my role. He did say he had an easily provable role and maybe you wanted to investigate him? I don't know I'm not in your head. Tbh I'm not confident in any of my reads atm and you're like the third string suspect who I've ceded to because my bigger ones all claimed important PRs.

Why are Terrador's cases poor See: my analysis of his vig shot choices. Also he was selective with Shinori, saying that if he ignored all the townie bits of him, he was scummy which is pretty bad. I dropped that because I'm pretty convinced he's not scum., and how can you qualify that judgment with a single display of logic from him? Because that logic makes total sense. Clearing someone because they made one good point about setup speculation, and not anything to do with their nightvig claim, seems like pretty selective reading to me. This has everything to do with their claim because I don't think there would be that many antitown nightkills so claiming nightvig is pretty good. Even so, why would I fight against a mislynch target like Terrador if I were scum?

If SB probably did die because he recruited someone, but I'd say Terra isn't the scum, because WIFOM tells me scum wouldn't shoot Euk and there's actually no SK according to the rules and our wincon, as the nyxists are the only ones we need to eliminate. This also actually clears the dayvig as well.

GP I agree with your Breezy case, but why did it come after the vote? Can you give us a lynch priority, including the info that SB probably misrecruited?

@Breezy: Scum trackers exist so proving a role doesn't make you town. That said he's probably town because Shinori likely inspected him.

My lynch priority is:

GP > Sky > Marth/Breezy > Junko > Eury > Terrador > Kopf

Marth/Breezy from PoE.

[Eurykins]

And I have returned (and the heat today is killer...) ~

Pretty sure I've addressed this at least twice so far, once in response to you and once to Eury.

I'm asking my townreads and lurkers to post because I feel that their posts would be the most reliable, and telling, respectively. How is that scummy?

If you believe that I'm a voyeur variant, then aren't you ceding that I did target Wen, who targeted Terrador? Terrador confirmed Wen's action, thus confirming mine.

Then, why would scum!me choose to investigate Wen, who was under suspicion by Marth, Junko, yourself, Eury and Terrador D1 and could thus easily be mislynched D2? Scum investigators should have targeted people like myself, Eury and Terrador, who'd been the generally assented townreads of the previous day. I'd only investigate Wen if I was town, and thus your case on me contradicts your belief of my role.

Why are Terrador's cases poor, and how can you qualify that judgment with a single display of logic from him? Clearing someone because they made one good point about setup speculation, and not anything to do with their nightvig claim, seems like pretty selective reading to me.

Imo. The only two who's night actions are truly confirmed (by each other) are Terrador and Wen. As you yourself said (when asked by Shinori):

I'm merely lending credence to Wen's night action. Claiming my particular role might satiate your curiosity, but isn't going to help town :/

You don't say how you're lending credentials to Wen's night action; in fact, you seem purposely vague about how exactly you're proving Wen's claim. So all we have is your word/claim that you can confirm Wen's action; for all we know, you could be saying that to easily create an alibi of sorts for yourself (as no one else can confirm that you did somehow learn last night that Wen targeted Terrador.) [After all, your claim came AFTER the fact/after he'd posted his question regarding why Terrador was at Euklyd's place, not before.]

WRT scum!you: For one, see above in terms of we have no guarantee that you actually did confirm Wen's action. As far as I can see/tell, no one here can say that they saw you watching over Wen or otherwise targeted him with your action, so all we have is your claim/word to go off of. In addition, we all know that the term 'scum' in itself is a broad term- anything that refers to a potential threat to town. Which incorporates the ITPS/SK's, along with Mafia; it then boils down to "Why exactly did you choose to target Wen last night phase, if you even did?". Your actions in themselves could have been self-serving, or if you believed that Wen was a different type of scum from what you could be, then that can be more than enough reason to do so (if you even did).

TL;DR: Your claim of verifying Wen's night actions are not only unprovable to us, but also doesn't speak anything of your alignment.

Looked at the edit to SB's flip. Yes, it's essentially a given now that he died because he tried to recruit scum, which makes his associative reads very important.

This is his last list of scumspects before he died, which tells us that he didn't try to target Sky, myself, Junko, nor Wen. We also know he didn't try to target Mistuki nor Euk, who flipped town, so that leaves Terrador, Breezy, Eury, Marth, and kirsche. At least one of these people are guaranteed scum.

In terms of activity level, those five were going about Terra = Eury > Marth > kirsche >>>> Breezy. Thus, either Terrador or Eury is highly likely to be scum, especially given their high townie-like activity the last day phase and tendency to be the correspondent that SB wanted.

1. If SB died due to hitting scum on his Mason ability, it's likely he took a chance to use his ability to scum-hunt. That being said, I think it's too soon to assume he didn't aim for/consider people on his 'scum list'- what better way to scum hunt then to clear someone he (SB) thinks is scummy and thus narrow down the search from there? [And in that case, nice way of isolating yourself out of that argument as a possibility/possible target for SB's Mason]

2. If SB died to a source other than his Mason ability hitting scum (Say Euklyd was town misvig, while Mitsuki or SB ended up as scum kill), the next logical move would be to assume that there is an SK floating around who conducted the last kill last night phase. As a result, SB could have easily targeted Mitsuki or Euklyd as well, given that both are dead; neither can say whether he did or didn't, 'cause you know, they're kinda dead? ;/

The fact that you're purely looking at the game in the aspect of SB having to have died due to his ability/role use, and the fact that you're clearing yourself that quickly off the list of suspects in lieu of others (when your gameplay in itself has begged quite a few questions as well) is dropping some pretty bad vibes atm.

I need to get some re-reads of the ISO's done. But for now:

##Vote: Green Poet

[Green Poet]

...Seriously?

I'm the insomniac dayvig. I have infinite shots that can be used once per day phase by messaging a mod when they're online. I killed FFM and Shinori. I have OC with Wen, which is why I could verify his action and kept pushing for a town read on him.

I'll go over kirsche and Eury's replies when I have time. Not terribly liking how Eury switched her vote to me so quickly, but I'll read it more thoroughly later and see if it's warranted.

Breezy > kirsche > Paladin > Eury.

[Eurykins]

...Seriously?

I'm the insomniac dayvig. I have infinite shots that can be used once per day phase by messaging a mod when they're online. I killed FFM and Shinori. I have OC with Wen, which is why I could verify his action and kept pushing for a town read on him.

I'll go over kirsche and Eury's replies when I have time. Not terribly liking how Eury switched her vote to me so quickly, but I'll read it more thoroughly later and see if it's warranted.

Breezy > kirsche > Paladin > Eury.

WELL THEN. Gj on shooting our cop, GP. ;/

Realtalk: Well, this explains how you're so sure about Wen's actions, so long as Wen can confirm in-thread that it's true.

Question though: If you're the day town vig, then what are your true thoughts (with this info known) about Terrador's "Odd night kills" claim on Euklyd?

Also. Why on EARTH did you shoot Shinori? SERIOUSLY? I'd like to know a logical, viable reason for your decision.

[i also find it funny that you also chose to out yourself/THAT much information after... what, one or two votes? That doesn't make any sense, given your gameplay earlier in treading carefully with information.]

TL;DR: Explanations and lots of them are needed, 'cause things just aren't adding up nicely in terms of logical actions/posting.

[Sky_Paladin]

Irrelevant. Green Poet shot Frost Fire Mage who was scum. Therefore, unless counterclaimed, GP is town (or at worst third party) and cannot be lynched today.

The explanation is clearly "I made a mistake" and asking GP to waste her time explaining in detail, or any attempt to pursue GP as scum cannot seriously be entertained as anything other than distracting town and wasting time.

I am back and reading the game.

[Green Poet]

TL;DR: Explanations and lots of them are needed, 'cause things just aren't adding up nicely in terms of logical actions/posting.

Logic? Sure. Consider this:

-There are no daySKs in the game, as Poly stated. It is solely SEES vs. Nyxists.

-The chances of two dayvigs is not only incredibly unlikely due to balance reasons, but also the fact that mine was the only kill that occurred D1.

From this, we can safely conclude that there is only one town dayvig. I am claiming this role, and will shoot any CCers first thing tomorrow to substantiate this claim.

-We know for a fact that I killed FFM, as mafia had no reason to do so and we know a daySK does not exist.

-Knowing this, one can conclude that the same person killed Shinori, being myself.

So, barring CCs that I will kill, my claim aligns with all of my kills thus far. There's no logical reason to doubt my claim, and I would strongly advise that you unvote now. I'm not sure why you haven't already.

Regarding Shinori, he was definitely a very poor kill... retrospectively.

I collaborated with Wen as to whether or not Shinori struck him as scummy as well, and we came to a mutual agreement. We based this decision on his aggressiveness (which did not line up with his town play at all as doc in EO2 when we was under pressure), and his repetition of sentiments such as "Don't even think about it; none of you are going to lynch me" or "I don't think I should defend myself, since I'm not going to be lynched anyway," and most telling, "I'm not going to be killed unless it's by some vig who doesn't like me."

Can you honestly tell me that you think Shinori was contributing reads other than his one on the then-doomed Refa, and that his play didn't merit being killed?

Question though: If you're the day town vig, then what are your true thoughts (with this info known) about Terrador's "Odd night kills" claim on Euklyd?

I'm leaning towards doubting its validity. (If you ISO me, you'll recall that I expressed immediate and fairly strong disbelief towards Terrador's claim.) Consider this:

Scenario 1: Terrador is town nightvig. This gives us two kills plus one lynch per day/night, and scum has two kills (FFM, factional kill.)

Scenario 2: Terrador is scum nightvig. This gives us one kill plus one lynch per day/night, and scum has three kills (FFM, Terrador, factional kill.)

Honestly, three kills a phase by us sounds... implausible. But it doesn't automatically rule out Terrador's claim, so I'm not going to make a case on him solely based on this rolespec.

[Eurykins]

Logic? Sure. Consider this:

-There are no daySKs in the game, as Poly stated. It is solely SEES vs. Nyxists.

I saw that in the rules, yes. However, I've also seen that in other games, (and the fact that changes have already been made in the middle/during the game itself) which begs the question of if we really know everything or not. imo. However, if the rules are as black/white as that, then I may stand corrected.

-The chances of two dayvigs is not only incredibly unlikely due to balance reasons, but also the fact that mine was the only kill that occurred D1.

From this, we can safely conclude that there is only one town dayvig. I am claiming this role, and will shoot any CCers first thing tomorrow to substantiate this claim.

Obviously enough.

-We know for a fact that I killed FFM, as mafia had no reason to do so and we know a daySK does not exist.

-Knowing this, one can conclude that the same person killed Shinori, being myself.

So, barring CCs that I will kill, my claim aligns with all of my kills thus far. There's no logical reason to doubt my claim, and I would strongly advise that you unvote now. I'm not sure why you haven't already.

My vote stayed on you until I saw you post again (aka. I wanted to hear more from you). In addition, your comment in itself does strike me as rather aggressive, so mind you- "Pot meet kettle" in terms of how you dealt with Shinori's case. My vote would have been likely changed/moved off of you at my own discretion, and I don't care for people demanding my vote to be switched on/off someone, thank you.

Regarding Shinori, he was definitely a very poor kill... retrospectively.

I collaborated with Wen as to whether or not Shinori struck him as scummy as well, and we came to a mutual agreement. We based this decision on his aggressiveness (which did not line up with his town play at all as doc in EO2 when we was under pressure), and his repetition of sentiments such as "Don't even think about it; none of you are going to lynch me" or "I don't think I should defend myself, since I'm not going to be lynched anyway," and most telling, "I'm not going to be killed unless it's by some vig who doesn't like me."

Can you honestly tell me that you think Shinori was contributing reads other than his one on the then-doomed Refa, and that his play didn't merit being killed?

1. Shinori posted FAIR cases near the end of last day phase. Even his Wen case was relatively solid, in terms of what everyone else but you two were seeing in-thread. It's probably only due to the fact that you had OC with Wen that told you that he may not have been as scummy as Shinori was making him out to be (that's assuming you know Wen is 100% cleared).

2. Most of those quotes from him stem from CONFIDENCE in the fact that, honestly, no one had a case on Shinori for the most part. The most I saw was "He's being aggressive with his posting" which apparently warranted him being labeled as "auto-scum". Aggression/forward play is NOT always a tell-tale sign of scum, and it shows by the fact that you shot him just as he was posting up his cases/had even said plainly (in his last post before you shot him) that he wasn't going to pursue you for his reasons. (Way to jump the gun there.)

3. Everything he was asking/poking at in terms of D2 content was fair game. Re-reading through Terrador's/Shinori's 1v1, the MAIN basis of why Terrador found him worrisome was due to the AGGRESSION. Had you let ANYONE else look into his posts (IE. Bluedoom, Kirsche, etc.) or given them the time to, they could've easily have verified whether the attitude you were seeing there was truly scummy or not. ESPECIALLY if you guys have little to no prior experience with how he usually plays- why would you be so careless enough to risk SHOOTING him over something you're not even sure is or isn't part of his town!Shinori meta or not? (or all in all, part of his posting habits as a whole). That screams careless play coming from our Day Vig.

4. Also, knowing Shinori, the last quote underlined? Was probably a crumb hinting that he may have had some knowledge regarding a certain vig from last night phase.

I'm leaning towards doubting its validity. (If you ISO me, you'll recall that I expressed immediate and fairly strong disbelief towards Terrador's claim.) Consider this:

Scenario 1: Terrador is town nightvig. This gives us two kills plus one lynch per day/night, and scum has two kills (FFM, factional kill.)

Scenario 2: Terrador is scum nightvig. This gives us one kill plus one lynch per day/night, and scum has three kills (FFM, Terrador, factional kill.)

Honestly, three kills a phase by us sounds... implausible. But it doesn't automatically rule out Terrador's claim, so I'm not going to make a case on him solely based on this rolespec.

Considering the last paragraph, yeah, I re-read through some of your other posts and it's clear that you don't trust Terrador much regarding that aspect. However, I'm also curious as to the fact that, the moment you shot Shinori, you INSTANTLY jumped on Terrador. Kinda smelled bad of you setting him up there, which is why I wanted to know why you killed Shinori- to kill someone you truly found scummy? Or to nail/pin the blame on Terrador for it?

##Unvote