British Mafia - Game Over! Britain Wins!

[CT075]

not good enough

what were you hoping to find other than "they got killed"

[Prims]

I wouldn't lynch Kay until we get a claim.

Odds are we're not getting one unless a sub magically happens.

Who here actually thinks Kay is scummy? In fact, who here has attempted to look at her posts critically?

[CT075]

I will admit that I haven't been paying attention to Kay (do you blame me? I would probably have forgotten she was playing if nobody brought her up)

On reading her ISO, the things that stand out to me are this rather sheepy post (ED1 so I guess there wasn't much to talk about) and the aforementioned hypocritical post

this post I don't really understand (I understand questioning me but the other part just lists a bunch of reads with little to no reasoning)

[FrostyFireMage]

not good enough

what were you hoping to find other than "they got killed"

to see if they got roleblocked/tracked/watched etc etc

better than not using my role

[Shinori]

Most of these small reads are from skimming. I'll attempt to post more tomorrow.

I haven't really looked at Kay's posts at all so I'm pretty much completely null on her. Also the fact that she is as inactive as she is though doesn't really help anything.

Personally I feel that Eury is town so WRT the argument that was between Eury and Makaze I'm more inclined to say Eury is town and I still feel partially biased towards Makaze from day 1 since that was where the majority of my reads came from and the rest of this is mostly like skimming.

I feel Baldrick/junko slot thing is town.

Prims is most likely town cause of day 1 paper stuff.

Would probably be okay with an ffm lynch. I'll hopefully have more read and better thoughts come tomorrow but based off of a small skim I'm leaning something along the lines of:

Makaze > Kay = FFM > Joo > Cam > Other people > Me

The j00 and Cam read are honestly there from PoE and because I haven't read them that much at the moment.

Will have to get to that stuff tomorrow hopefully.

[Eurykins]

Tired, so this'll probs be the last post of the night from me.

1. I'll ask you explicitly since this is getting into repetitive assertions. What actual tells do you have for me?
2. I'm surprised you don't see how scummy this sounds. Your entire reason for mentioning your role is to scare people away from lynching you; in your own words, 'self-serving things are anti-town'.
3. I'm not exactly Psych. How is my bad gameplay a tell? AKA Question 1.
4. That in itself is a rhetorical question; why not answer it for yourself?

Still waiting on that sub for Kay.

Those who haven't voted, AKA Shinori, Darros, FFM and j00: How do you feel about Eury and I? Why are you sitting by and letting a 1v1 drag on?

1. -D1 case/notions on you.

- Gauging your response/inaccurate claims on me starting D2.

- Your reaction to my reaction felt bad, along with your responses.

- Mix of self-conscious posting/tones, including phrases of such: "If I were scum/town, I'd do X/Y" (and constantly doing that = superficial/face-saving comments, imo, ) Also, the second half/quote = You seem to stall out/start flopping around in the water waiting for other people to post (not the most pro-active thing to do).

- Quite a few non-commital reads, along with the prod/interrogation for Psych's claim.

- Pretty strong misrep of my cases, and an inaccurate notion of my posts/actions.

- Continual misrep, seeming graspy on the Psych notions/case, and self-meta sort of ITP comments that seem (once again) self-conscious (saving face). I also feel that you heavily misrepped the "crumb" post (since I literally had typed out "food for thought" as well, which just means it's something for people to work with since I was garnering some attention?), and then (once again) the fishing comments/notions reappear.

- Pushing hard on a moot point (supposed "gut read" claim/issue), feels like you're fishing even harder (than the prior post/response), choosing to compare my non-subtle role crumbing to Psych's (to make what I said/did seem scummier than it actually is), and needless/fruitless questions.

Those are my points/tells as of right now that highly implicate you to be quite scummy, imo. The fact that you FEEL like ITP scum over Mafia scum (based on how I saw your interactions and train of thought) doesn't mean the case on you is based on gut feeling alone.

2. Giving them a head's up about something that they should/may want to know when I was being held in high priority is not self-serving at all. I didn't say "my life is too valuable and you shouldn't touch me because of what I may/may not have in my arsenal as a result"- far from it. I'm willing to die to either being shot or mislynched if the end result means that people buckle down and catch the rest of the scum.

3. Fishing openly for claims and information that otherwise generally shouldn't be outed by town (in lieu of not giving scum anymore info than absolutely necessary) = scummy. Bad gameplay = can be scummy. Basically, #1 answer covers this for me.

4. Other people have been saying/noting other things even as the 1v1 has worn on (including thoughts on us two). The bolded notion also seems to imply that they're "responsible" for it continuing, when it's clearly a 2 way street between you and me (if either of us dropped the issue/responses, the other would have no choice but to do the same).

What I'm saying is that FFM should claim.

Kind of confused why there was an announcement N1 but not N2.

I'm actually curious about the bolded statement myself.

tbh: who is down for turboing kay without a claim

I know I certainly didn't like her gameplay, but I can't say that I'd be super enthusiastic about doing so. FFM/Makaze are much MUCH more preferred of a lynch for me today.

Eury, if you're a power role with an incriminating result on Makaze, now's the time to out that. Just saying.

(Already been answered by a few others, but I didn't have any.)

I don't have a problem with turboing Kay because at worst we are getting rid of a useless and scummy town and at best we are hitting scum. I'll consolidate on her if necessary but would prefer a stronger read if possible.

I don't think FFM is scum so either that or a Eury lynch is fine with me.

Somehow I feel that he seems a bit too eager/okay with sheeping the notion to turbo Kay. In addition, the italicized makes it seem like he backpedals on the bolded notion by labeling her as a "consolidation" pick.

Odds are we're not getting one unless a sub magically happens.

Who here actually thinks Kay is scummy? In fact, who here has attempted to look at her posts critically?

Was my post earlier wrt her post D2.

Looking back on earlier posts, this one feels really shallow on the Darros read, and pretty lazy on Makaze.

This one nitpicks on Cam, still a thin case/notion on Darros, Prims read feels shallow as well, and she seems to brush off FFM's actions as being "dopey" (not even saying whether it's good/bad/scummy/etc.)

I can see the points/cases against her, and I'm not sure if her notion to sub out (this late) is poor gameplay on her part (she should've subbed out far earlier as town if her content/contribution would be this lackluster as a whole) or scum trying to coast/slide under the radar to buy time. However, I'm struggling to determine whether she would bypass FFM in terms of who I feel to be scummier or not (which is making me uncomfortable with the turbo notion [along with Makaze's eagerness to go with it]).

to see if they got roleblocked/tracked/watched etc etc

better than not using my role

I get the whole "night kill" thing/reason behind picking people with a voyeur role.

However, especially wrt Boron...

Numbers don't visit others (not an active role). So there's nothing to role-block, track, or watch from scum perspective...? (So why would you think that scum would hit HER of all people with said abilities (if they had them)?) Boron shouldn't/wouldn't have been a target for ANY of those roles...

[Prims]

Voyeur sees what actions the person was targeted by, not what action they used.

I guess I'm fine with FFM lynch, though. Weak investigation that can be fakeclaimed + Psych's role + Paper's 1-shot follow seems like reasonable scum power. Still find Kay scummier though.

[j00]

While I'm not opposed to lynching Kay, I'd want Makaze lynched before her since she's still somewhat of a shot in the dark. I didn't like the one post she had, but I can't garner much from it.

[Shin]

eclipse subs in for Kay.

[Shin]

"I do say, the crickers was pretty darn dapper. Five days of tense action, as well as waiting, rain and general boredom. But the five minutes that were worth watching made it all up, mind you."

FFM (2): Darros, j00

Makaze (2): FFM, Eury

Eury (1): Makaze

Kay (1): Prims

Not voting: eclipse, Shinori, Baldrick, Cam

Big Ben says that there are 37 hours remaining! With 10 alive, it takes 4 to lynch and 6 to hammer! Phase ends on 20/6 23:00GMT+0.

[Prims]

Hi eclipse sorry you had to sub into a mafia slot again.

[Darros]

Not exactly sold on FFM, but whatever. It's a pretty easy fake and targeting Boron makes little sense. Why didn't you answer my question?

I'll unvote for now though until we get consolidation or something.

##Unvote

I'm not voting for eclipse until I see stuff from her, like I said, I've nothing to go off of from Kay's slot, so seeing stuff from eclipse should be good.

I'd be open to lynching Makaze today too.

[CT075]

to see if they got roleblocked/tracked/watched etc etc

Boron is numbers

[j00]

Hi eclipse, got any reads?

[Darros]

Makaze, do you have any reasons for thinking Eury is scum that don't involve you? All your reasoning surrounding her seem to relate back to yourself, which makes you look extremely biased and like you're not doing actual scumhunting.

[Darros]

I just don't see scum!Eury. It doesn't make sense to me. I want to know your reasoning but it all seems to be centered around yourself.

[Darros]

[Makaze]

Makaze, do you have any reasons for thinking Eury is scum that don't involve you? All your reasoning surrounding her seem to relate back to yourself, which makes you look extremely biased and like you're not doing actual scumhunting.

A lot of it seems centered around myself but as far as I'm concerned that's a coincidence. If she were doing the things she is doing to anyone else I'd have the same problems.

It's a little difficult to find reasons that don't involve me at all since she has been tunneling me practically the entire game but I have had a bad feeling about her (this is a gut read) since she first subbed in. I got the distinct feeling that her wall posts were half-assed compared to her work in Training Mafia and it set off alarms. I challenged her on it and it turned her onto me. She voted me in the post after that and everything since then has been related to me.

That said, I'm not completely sold on it, she just gives me the worst feeling. I've already made it clear I am willing to consolidate on three people in order by priority: Eurykins, Shinori, and Kay (though we have a sub so I'll wait for a claim on that one).

@Eury: You are reaaaally grasping at straws there. I am not eager to lynch Kay, I am okay with it; if I can't get you or Shinori. Always better to lynch someone like her than a no lynch. I'm more opposed to tunneling than you.

[Darros]

I don't really think she's been tunneling you the whole game. What about her case on Psych? Do you have anything to say about what she's said wrt other players? If she's scummy, would her cases not accordingly be scummy as well?

[Makaze]

I don't really think she's been tunneling you the whole game. What about her case on Psych? Do you have anything to say about what she's said wrt other players? If she's scummy, would her cases not accordingly be scummy as well?

Not inherently. I already addressed her case on Psych. It was a good case. It got me on Psych's case.

But right rather after that, she jumped on me. From then on it reads as a possible gambit where she throws suspicion on a fellow scum to absolve herself later. She hasn't really payed a lot of attention to other reads besides me past that point and as others have commented she has focused on ITP hunting for a majority of the game.

I called it a gut read back then for a reason as you can see. Looking back, she joined the Paper wagon too (which also felt bad to me at the time)... Which seems like an unlikely scum move, but also makes sense IF the thing she did with Psych was gambit too.

Unlike my other two reads (Paper and Psych), this one is way farther from I called 'confirmed' before. The fact is we just don't have enough content from other people for me to have such strong feelings. I seem to be target #1 for several people myself but Eury is the only one I have any actual bad feelings about; I can't blame people for calling out my bad moves because that isn't scummy in itself.

The weakness of this read is also why I am open to other lynches compared to the first two days. You've made it clear I won't sell you on Eury. Can you sell me on someone else?

[Darros]

I'm waiting on a response from eclipse until I bother with more speculation on who could be scum. I'm really not sure at this point because of Kay's inactive slot. Hopefully that will clear up soon.

[Eurykins]

Okay, a few things here:

A lot of it seems centered around myself but as far as I'm concerned that's a coincidence. If she were doing the things she is doing to anyone else I'd have the same problems.

It's a little difficult to find reasons that don't involve me at all since she has been tunneling me practically the entire game but I have had a bad feeling about her (this is a gut read) since she first subbed in. I got the distinct feeling that her wall posts were half-assed compared to her work in Training Mafia and it set off alarms. I challenged her on it and it turned her onto me. She voted me in the post after that and everything since then has been related to me.

That said, I'm not completely sold on it, she just gives me the worst feeling. I've already made it clear I am willing to consolidate on three people in order by priority: Eurykins, Shinori, and Kay (though we have a sub so I'll wait for a claim on that one).

@Eury: You are reaaaally grasping at straws there. I am not eager to lynch Kay, I am okay with it; if I can't get you or Shinori. Always better to lynch someone like her than a no lynch. I'm more opposed to tunneling than you.

1. "It's half-assed compared to her work in Training Mafia" = ...What? For one, I'd like you to explain how my posts as a whole have been bad or otherwise half-assed. Secondly, you're comparing it to a game in which I was SCUM, and saying that my posts have a different feel to them... I'm not sure I get that train of logic at all. Differing from a game in which someone was acting/behaving as scum = I'm scummy in this game for it? Makes no sense at all.

2. Pause. So you go from this:

I don't have a problem with turboing Kay because at worst we are getting rid of a useless and scummy town and at best we are hitting scum. I'll consolidate on her if necessary but would prefer a stronger read if possible.

I don't think FFM is scum so either (Kay Lynch) that or a Eury lynch is fine with me.

to now having "Eurykins, Shinori, and Kay"? Looking back at your iSO/other posts, you also don't seem to have any sort of case, notion, etc. wrt Shinori (aside from asking him questions). So why is he now on your priority list right behind me?

3. Your supposed "challenge" on my posts = you misrepping them on multiple aspects and otherwise attempting to paint my actions in a scummy light when there was none. So naturally I turned on you for it- the only parties that care do things like that = scum.

4. "Always better to lynch someone like her" - if that doesn't sound opportunistic wrt lynching someone inactive, I don't know what it is. Especially when 95%+ of us are pretty sure we know at least 1 of the two remaining scum.

Not inherently. I already addressed her case on Psych. It was a good case. It got me on Psych's case.

But right rather after that, she jumped on me. From then on it reads as a possible gambit where she throws suspicion on a fellow scum to absolve herself later. She hasn't really payed a lot of attention to other reads besides me past that point and as others have commented she has focused on ITP hunting for a majority of the game.

I called it a gut read back then for a reason as you can see. Looking back, she joined the Paper wagon too (which also felt bad to me at the time)... Which seems like an unlikely scum move, but also makes sense IF the thing she did with Psych was gambit too.

Unlike my other two reads (Paper and Psych), this one is way farther from I called 'confirmed' before. The fact is we just don't have enough content from other people for me to have such strong feelings. I seem to be target #1 for several people myself but Eury is the only one I have any actual bad feelings about; I can't blame people for calling out my bad moves because that isn't scummy in itself.

The weakness of this read is also why I am open to other lynches compared to the first two days. You've made it clear I won't sell you on Eury. Can you sell me on someone else?

1. And yet on multiple occasions I've elaborated and gave my thoughts/reads/etc. on the majority of the remaining players. Please tell me how I haven't been paying attention to the others here.

2. I subbed in with about 2 hours remaining in the phase, and in that time, I pushed myself to read through almost EVERY ISO to ensure that I felt somewhat confident in who I felt deserved the vote most on D1. So the timing in itself (aka. Right near the end of the phase) is literally unavoidable, as a result of me having to be subbed in. Secondly, I had my own case/reasons to vote him, just as the majority of the game/players did, so if I'm scummy for voting him for a VALID case, then so would everyone else (including yourself)?

3. Aside from someone like Kay, there should be quite a bit to work with. This isn't D1 anymore, Makaze- you should still have a good general sense/picture of what people are/feel like to you in terms of scum or town; this seems more like padding/fluff/excuses more than anything to insert Kay and Shinori onto your list along with myself. (And in former posts, you've also had quite a few read post that had really non-commital or otherwise pretty flimsy reads, in terms of wall-sitting and waffling on people.)

4. So (wrt underlined part): I called you out earlier for misrepping my cases (aka. bad/poor gameplay because what you're literally posting = not the truth/valid cases). You call me scummy and graspy for some of my notions and the fact that I harped on you for it. Similar thing occurs when you start digging for claim information from me, and then you backpedal and try to justify the poor action/gameplay (similar with doing so with Psych). So why do you say that I'm scummy for those notions, when you just stated that "calling out my bad moves isn't scummy in itself"?

5. The last line just sounds bad. Very non-commital and an easy way to wall-sit and attempt to consolidate almost any lynch option today. (Aside from yourself and... FFM?)

[Makaze]

Eury, I'm not willing to waste all of my time this game in a back and forth with you.

Shinori has been on my list pretty much since the beginning of D3. What changed in the middle was I forgot he was a priority, then remembered again.

I do in fact not have good ideas of how everyone feels in this game. My commitment is and has been low because of the sheer lack of content from such a large amount of players. I find it hard to judge the actions of anyone while there is still someone who hasn't done anything. Reason: I judge people by who is the most scummy. For all I know, the inactives are scum while the people I'm paying attention to are poor schmucks who got stuck with the spot light. Paper and Psych made this game easy. As for the rest, this game sucks.

But you know what? I've tried all kinds of prod moves to get people to do something, but to no avail. At best, I am now waiting on a claim or something from eclipse. You are still giving me the worst feeling until something else happens. If you are town, it's only natural that what I'm saying doesn't make sense to you.

I cannot explain to you how they are half-assed and doing so would be a waste of time. If I'm right, proving it to you is a waste. You are the person I'm reading. If I'm wrong, I don't gain anything from proving it either. So I'm going with my gut, as I said, quite explicitly. My intuition is all I have in D3 so far and that's what I'm going to trust.

But I know intuition doesn't trump reasons. So, I'd love to hear some actual reasons for me to change my opinion instead of people casting doubts. Lack of objective proof is not a good reason to unvote. Objective proof on someone else, is.

Also, the person I am reading the most town right now is not FFM but Cam because the associative reads on Cam make him extremely unlikely as a mafia. He could still be the ITP but I'm not willing to follow that possibility without any kind of read to back it up.

[j00]

I don't think this game is gonna move on unless we get a content post from Shinori and eclipse. Shinori's been promising content posts for two phases now.

[FrostyFireMage]

FFM what do you think of Makaze other than "easy target"? This is important so answer carefully.

He's been playing well for a new player. I don't think he'd be this good in a role that he isn't used to i.e SK.