H5 Character Rankings, Take 2

[Colonel M]

The format:

Unit

Base Stats / Growths - This is where the growths will go. It will look like:

Base Stats - HP | Str | Mag | Skl | Spd | Luck | Def | Res

Base Stats for Classes

Base Growths - HP% | Str% | Mag% | Skl% | Spd% | Luck% | Def% | Res%

Base Growths for Classes

Explaination of Unpromoted Class(es)

Explaination of Promoted Class(es)

In these two categories I will explain the perks with the respective class(es) that they want to see.

The Colonel's Thoughts

Here is just a general (lol) description of the character. Very similar to what the others describe, but hopefully a bit more of a "concise" version of it.

Rating - 1-10/10

If the character does not have any class options (i.e. Marth and Jake), it'll just skip to the thoughts. Also: every character will get a separate ranking. This means no more Zag / Wolf and Cain / Abel.

The Characters (in order). The names will have the link to their rating.

Marth

Abel

Cain

Jagen

Gordin

Draug

Caeda

Wrys

Ogma

Barst

Cord

Bord

Darros

Castor

Lena

Julian

Navarre

Merric

Matthis

Hardin

Wolf

Zagaro

Roshe

Vyland

Wendell

Rickard

Athena

Bantu

Caesar

Radd

Roger

Jeorge

Maria

Minerva

Linde

Jake

BOAH

Midia

Dolph

Macellan

Thomas

Horace

Beck

Catria

Palla

Samson

Arran

Chainey

Etzel

Est

Tiki

Lawrence

Ymir

Elice

Nagi

Gato

Finally a score sheet (for your amusement and mine)

10 -

9.5 -

9 -

8.5 - Abel, Cain

8 -

7.5 -

7 -

6.5 - Jeigan

6 - Marth

5.5 -

5 -

4.5 -

4 - Gordin

3.5 -

3 -

2.5 -

2 -

1.5 -

1 -

0.5 -

0 -

Disclaimer: All rankins have a +/- 0.5 leniency on them. So if you disagree that Hardin got an 8.0 and thought that he was worth a 7.5, don't even bother with it. While the rankings stand in "my opinion", I attempt to make it the general opinion via the tier list and others. This means that I don't attempt to overrank a favorite unit of mine while underranking something else. There will obviously be inconsistencies in comparison to the Tier List and this ranking sheet; however, keep in mind that I'm attempting to follow it as close as possible.

Edited April 11, 2010 by Colonel M

[Colonel M]

Hm I got half an hour before work. Just going to list what I'm scrapping as options:

- Armor Knight. This setup is way too crude and, frankly, the rewards are not always worth it. 5 Mov causes serious issues (literally I hate healers aside from Linde just because theuy have 5 Movement). Hunter will replace that slot, btw.

- Cleric -> Sniper. Sorry Ninji, but after this runthrough of H5 I find it almost impossible to get a healer to a respective level to promote. Maybe a healer could make it in Chapter 12X. Do note, however, that I did reserve classes for the other units barring Rad Quetz (this one is difficult as fuck).

- Mage Shiida. While not a terrible setup, it is still almost inferior to Pegasus Knight Shiida. I am still listing Mage -> Sage Shiida because, yes, it still works good.

- Dark Mage Macellan. I don't think I listed it, but just in case... NO!

If I hit Chainey before I reach the end of the game, I am going to abstain the review until I do beat it. This is for technical reasons. PS Chainey has to be twice as good as Navarre.. Refrain from your flaming on Chainey until I can throw my personal opinion. After that... I guess we'll see. To hint though I am, for sure, not givng Chainey a 9 or w/e absurd ranking I gave him. To hell with that as even in my inefficient playthrough he was a useless asshat.

[Colonel M]

Marth

Base Stats / Growths

Base Stats - 18 HP | 5 Str | 0 Mag | 3 Skl | 7 Spd | 7 Luck | 7 Def | 0 Res

Base Growths - 80 HP | 50 Str | 0 Mag | 40 Skl | 50 Spd | 70 Luck | 20 Def | 2 Res

The Colonel's Thoughts

Okay, let's put it bluntly. Marth is not Ike or Sigurd's level of awesome. Just clearing that out before everyone spams "dude he's High Tier in Brawl WTF?" Still, can Ike or Sigurd brag about saving the world twice? Especially WITHOUT PANTS ON AND A TIARA ON THEIR HEADS?

Marth's earlygame is in an environment where every hand is a positive contribution. Chapter 1, 2, and 3 is ludicrous in the quality of the enemies brought against you. Not only are they very accurate, they also tear your team to shreds. Marth is no exception to this rule either. Unfortunately his chip damage is minimal with the Iron Sword and wasting Rapier for +10 Crit is a bad idea. So pretty much he's fighting at one range like our other red cavalier Cain. So his contributions, while minimal, are appreciated for the small amount of time.

Chapter 4 is where you catch your "first break". By this I mean there are reasons to use the Rapier. I wouldn't consider the Rapier to be the first choice to forge, unfortunately. Hell, it barely comes in second or third place (Ridersbane for Chapter 5, Hammer for Chapter 6). Even so it can be assumed that if you're using Marth seriously one would invest into the Rapier. +5 Mt should do the trick, though keep in mind that it will be a very expensive forge (9520). While I would normally say that the Lance-heavy game puts mono swords into trouble, Marth at least has good news that he can compensate for it... slightly. We already know that the first 3 chapters were full of Pirates / Fighters. Chapter 4 still has Fighters and the Cavaliers and Horseman can be poked with Rapier. Chapter 5 has Cavaliers and Thieves on Marth's side (the other Cavaliers and Archers are going toward Hardin's side). Chapter 6 is kind of where he's SOL. Chapter 6X has Pirates and Mercenaries. Up until Chapter 10 he's alright at being a mono Sword user.

After that... it becomes a major issue. Only in chapters such as C13, C17, C19, and C24 are when being a Sword user is okay. So one can deduce that Marth's combat contributions are limited. Unfortunately the game is all about seizing. This makes Marth getting EXP difficult without being inefficient. While he can collect kills along the way, he can't be like Hardin and stray behind a turn and focus on killing something else for EXP. This yields mixed results on if you should have him become one of your combat units, that is if mono Swords weren't enough.

He does have some cool positives though that aren't storyline related (seizing). He doesn't take up a unit slot, so at least he cannot be a total negative to the team. We mentioned the Rapier a couple of times before, which can severely wound or kill a weakened Cavalier and Armor Knight. Since he has access to villages, you could give him credit for some of the items that he gives to your team. He gets a personal weapon (Falchion) which has little requirements (making Starlight is not a problem). It makes Chapter 24 that much easier to deal with when you have real Falchion. He also doesn't require the use of a Master Seal which makes his training "almost free", though one would wish that he would just promote to get better base stats. With the Fire Emblem he can do duties as a thief, though those opportunities are limited when your goal is seizing the throne. It's not bad to have with Chapter 12 for example. Finally he gives supports to just about everyone which nets +10 Avoid after 10 Chapters.

Overall, Marth being a combat unit is probably a debatable issue. It involves dumping a lot of cash on a weapon that still fails to OHKO Cavs (Wing Spear can do this almost perfectly) and his base stats and growths just barely cut it. Doubling Cavaliers (sometimes) isn't happening until Marth reaches an absurd level (15), which is questionable since he can't always net boss kills and he's forced to one range combat. There is a small exception to the one ranged combat, Levin Sword, but keep in mind that it'll do very little damage (5 damage per hit) and it costs an absurd amount of money to forge (1600 Gold). It's useful on Armor Knights at least since you can always double them and it prevents Marth from taking damage. As for netting 14 Spd, that would have to happen before Chapter 14, btw, as they jump up between 10 and 11 AS. Marth should double Armor Knights just fine (they usually need only about 8 AS to double them), so at least Marth has a small advantage there. With Marth not being a combat unit it frees up CEXP throughout the team at least, and he's not necessarily a terrible weakener with the unforged Rapier (it'll do a little over 10 damage). There's also his utility advantages that help make up for his loss of combat, so you can at least assure yourself that Marth isn't useless if he isn't trained. Marth is a strange lord in comparison to what you're used to, but his utility value and being "passable" as a combat unit helps his ranking.

Rating - 6/10

Edited February 23, 2010 by Colonel M

[Mekkah]

ctrl-F unit slot

ctrl-F levin sword

???

Is this assuming Warpless?

[Colonel M]

Oh come now I don't think I really need to narrate that he doesn't take up a unit slot...

...Okay fine I'll add it in. Levin Sword giddiness too.

And, yes, this is assuming Warpless.

[Tables]

Shouldn't you put Marth into the first post now?

Also, this should make an interesting read when it's done, so, yeah.

[Colonel M]

Abel

Base Stats / Growths

Base Stats - 2 HP | 1 Str | 0 Mag | 5 Skl | 1 Spd | 2 Luck | 0 Def | 0 Res

Base Stats for Classes
Cavalier - 18 HP | 5 Str | 0 Mag | 2 Skl | 6 Spd | - Luck | 7 Def | 0 Res
Paladin - 22 HP | 7 Str | 1 Mag | 5 Skl | 7 Spd | - Luck | 8 Def | 6 Res

Archer - 16 HP | 5 Str | 0 Mag | 3 Skl | 4 Spd | - Luck | 6 Def | 0 Res
Sniper - 24 HP | 7 Str | 1 Mag | 8 Skl | 9 Spd | - Luck | 7 Def | 3 Res

Myrmidion - 16 HP | 3 Str | 0 Mag | 9 Skl | 11 Spd | - Luck | 4 Def | 0 Res
Swordmaster - 22 HP | 5 Str | 1 Mag | 11 Skl | 13 Spd | - Luck | 6 Def | 3 Res

DracoKnight - 20 HP | 8 Str | 1 Mag | 5 Skl | 7 Spd | - Luck | 10 Def | 3 Res

Mage - 16 HP | 0 Str | 3 Mag | 1 Skl | 3 Spd | - Luck | 2 Def | 3 Res
Sage - 22 HP | 3 Str | 4 Mag | 2 Skl | 4 Spd | - Luck | 3 Def | 5 Res

Curate - 16 HP | 0 Str | 1 Mag | 1 Skl | 4 Spd | - Luck | 3 Def | 6 Res
Bishop - 22 HP | 1 Str | 3 Mag | 2 Skl | 4 Spd | - Luck | 3 Def | 8 Res

Base Growths - 25 HP | 25 Str | 5 Mag | 25 Skl | 40 Spd | 25 Luck | 5 Def | 5 Res

Base Growths for Classes
Cavalier / Paladin - 40 HP | 15 Str | -10 Mag | 25 Skl | 10 Spd | - Luck | 15 Def | -5 Res

DracoKnight - 30 HP | 10 Str | -15 Mag | 20 Skl | 25 Spd | - Luck | 10 Def | 0 Res

Archer / Sniper - 40 HP | 10 Str | -10 Mag | 20 Skl | 30 Spd | - Luck | 10 Def | -10 Res

Myrmidion / Swordmaster - 50 HP | 10 Str | -10 Mag | 20 Skl | 25 Spd | - Luck | 5 Def | -5 Res

Mage - 20 HP | -10 Str | 30 Mag | 20 Skl | 15 Spd | - Luck | -15 Def | 10 Res
Curate - 20 HP | -15 Str | 10 Mag | 15 Skl | 20 Spd | - Luck | -10 Def | 30 Res
Sage / Bishop - 20 HP | -15 Str | 20 Mag | 20 Skl | 20 Spd | - Luck | -15 Def | 20 Res

Explaination of Unpromoted Class(es)

Cavalier is really your best option, unpromoted. Myrmidion lacks the Sword rank to accomplish it (hey man 3 base Str + Iron Swords? Priceless). Archer has terrible Mov and the Spd base doesn't help much since it probably means you'll be ORKOed constantly. Mage is "okay", but I wouldn't expect much out of it.

Cavalier is great because of Abel's D Lances. Since he starts in Chapter 1, he has from the duration of Chapter 1-5 to build up to C Lances. Since it takes about 23 rounds of combat, you would have to use a Lance about 6 times. Not only do these chapters last longer than 6 turns, Abel also can take a Player Phase + Enemy Phase if he's using the Javelin. Abel doesn't have much trouble hitting C Lances by Chapter 5, which means that he can utilize Ridersbane. After that you have a mobile Cavalier slayer for a good portion of the game. He probably won't achieve doubling much aside from Armor Knights for quite some time, so don't expect miracles from him in that department.

Explaination of Promoted Class(es)

Once Abel promotes, you have a couple of options. If you even bothered with the Sword rank, Paladin is "okay" to an extent. To be honest you'll only like Paladin in certain chapters (Chapter 13, Chapter 17, Chapter 23 for examples). This is mainly because of either nullifying the Bow weakness or the extra Res. Otherwise, I'd recommend sticking out with DracoKnight or Sniper. DracoKnight flies around, which is awesome with Ridersbane. It even has a decent amount of durability if you obtain WTA (hint: not hard). The Axe rank is a minor point, but you are given the option to raise it. C is about the max you'll need with it for Hammertime. Sniper provides Abel with a solid Spd base and, in exchange for lack of Enemy Phase, grants Abel a great Player Phase. C Bows means Silver isn't too far off either, at that point you'll be doing solid damage throughout the game. Thanks to +2 Spd from DracoKnight -> Sniper, Abel is likely to double promoted enemies easier.

The Colonel's Thoughts

Abel is pretty solid. Coming in Chapter 1 with D Lances is nice when taking counterattacks hurt throughout the game. He's doing a little less damage than Draug and Jagen, but in the end it's still doing damage. This also gives Abel a chance to expose himself to an attack on the Enemy Phase without the major problem of taking a counterattack. Sadly his E Swords means he likely won't ever touch a Sword if that, though I wouldn't bother much with it. Abel's main goal in the earlygame chapters is simple: chuck a Javelin, pray it hits. Use the Sword for an accurate finishing blow. That's about it. His mobility gives him a slight edge in being able to position him easier, so I might as well note that.

After he hits C Lances he's pretty much all set until promotion. Ridersbane is a powerful tool in the hands of the unit. It makes Cavalier rushes easier to handle. While it's true that you can also target Horsemen, they don't appear until Chapter 8 (they appear in 4 but note you don't have the Ridersbane). When he doesn't need to target mounted units, he can attack at one range with the Steel Lance or two range with the Javelin. Since you're using Lances most of the time Silver Lance shouldn't be much of a problem to obtain by the time you can buy them. After that he's pretty much 2HKOing the unpromoted units or OHKOing the Cavaliers / Horseman with the Ridersbane. With mobility on your side, it's great to be Abel.

Promotion hits and... well, he's still solid. 15 Spd by 15/1, on average, is good enough to double the Archers and the Cavaliers. 65% growth means it's going somewhere, but to double the promoted enemies is pretty difficult unless they're Generals. Sniper is good with its +2 Spd from DracoKnight -> Sniper, but you lose Ridersbane and Silver Lance for that duration when you're a Sniper. Lacking an Enemy Phase is also a minor drawback, but nothing major to penalize him in. Both classes have utility in other areas (DracoKnight rocks in Chapter 15, Sniper is great in Chapter 21 and Chapter 22). DracoKnight needs some major levels to make sure it can double lategame. Unfortunately you need ~8 levels, on average, to get 20 Spd with DracoKnight. This doubles the Paladins for a short time but fails on DracoKnights (22 AS in C21, 24 in C22), Pegasus Knights (24 AS), Heroes, Snipers, and then most of the Endgame cast. Not to mention the 23 Spd cap is a setback on what Abel is left doubling, which means he has to either go back to Paladin or Sniper.

Obviously Abel is a good unit, but even in earlygame he seems outclassed. In the Atk department we have Jagen who can outdo Abel with the Silver Lance. He's also guaranteed Ridersbane, which means little effort needed to be put in the Lance rank. Hardin basically steps in as Abel with better ranks: auto B in Lances and D in Swords. He can reclass to Myrmidion freely in Chapter 6X and 9 and still retain his ranks. If you're desperate enough to kill the flying units Archer in Chapter 7 and 10 is also acceptable to certain extents. He also comes without needing 5 extra levels in comparison to Abel. Barst, Cord, Draug, and many other Brute class units have more opportunities to reclass when they're unpromoted since they have good options (Fighter, Hunter, Mercenary is backed by Barst and Cord's Str).

There's still good news. Paladin is great in Mage-heavy chapters and still wields Dragon Lance in instances such as Chapter 17. DracoKnight still flies, which is always an advantage. Sniper still has Longbows after Chapter 17 and a healthy Spd growth + base to keep him doubling. So after promotion he's still very solid. He brags a Cain and Marth support. He also has Palla and Est, but I wouldn't go so far as to note them. Unpromoted he isn't a bad unit at all. He just looks about average when you compare him to many of your units on the team, or even worse in some aspects. Solid enough to put him on the team at least, but he lacks versatility in reclassing until after promotion. Add on Ridersbane goodness and being there throughout the entire game and one can conclude that Abel is a good unit.

Rating - 8.5/10

Edited February 24, 2010 by Colonel M

[Colonel M]

Shouldn't you put Marth into the first post now?

Also, this should make an interesting read when it's done, so, yeah.

I'm not doing that. Unless you mean on the scorecard, I'll put him in there. If you mean putting his write-up in the first post I'm going to link to it instead (in the second spoiler there's a link to the unit's analysis).

[Tables]

I meant the scorecard, yeah. I assumed you'd realise I realised you putting his write up on the first post would be a bit silly and weird (hmm, that's actually quite a logically confusing sentence...).

Linking sounds like a good idea, though.

[Mekkah]

While it's true that you can also target Horseman, they don't appear until Chapter 8 (they appear in 5 but note you don't have the Ridersbane)

Horsemen*

they appear in 4*

Also, if I'm not throwing a Javelin at something that can't counter, I have Abel use a sword in the earlygame, generally to finish off something. Whiffing is too deadly to risk, so I'll pass up the 2 Lance WEXP to guarantee a kill somewhere.

[Colonel M]

Horsemen*

they appear in 4*

Also, if I'm not throwing a Javelin at something that can't counter, I have Abel use a sword in the earlygame, generally to finish off something. Whiffing is too deadly to risk, so I'll pass up the 2 Lance WEXP to guarantee a kill somewhere.

Maybe it's just me, but most of the time I just have him chuck Javelins and, as you said, use the Sword for an accurate blow. I noted it partially but I didn't think I had to go terribly in-depth.

Thanks for those fixes with Horsemen and C4. Dunno why 5 popped up in my head.

[dondon151]

Since it takes about 23 rounds of combat, you would have to use a Lance about 6 times.

Where'd you get 6 from?

[uzy5o]

Where'd you get 6 from?

I think he means 6 uses per chapter.

[Colonel M]

I think he means 6 uses per chapter.

That's what I meant.

[Colonel M]

Cain

Base Stats / Growths

Base Stats: 2 HP | 2 Str | 0 Mag | 3 Skl | 0 Spd | 3 Luck | 0 Def | 0 Res

Base Stats for Classes
Cavalier - 18 HP | 5 Str | 0 Mag | 2 Skl | 6 Spd | - Luck | 7 Def | 0 Res
Paladin - 22 HP | 7 Str | 1 Mag | 5 Skl | 7 Spd | - Luck | 8 Def | 6 Res

Archer - 16 HP | 5 Str | 0 Mag | 3 Skl | 4 Spd | - Luck | 6 Def | 0 Res
Sniper - 24 HP | 7 Str | 1 Mag | 8 Skl | 9 Spd | - Luck | 7 Def | 3 Res

Myrmidion - 16 HP | 3 Str | 0 Mag | 9 Skl | 11 Spd | - Luck | 4 Def | 0 Res
Swordmaster - 22 HP | 5 Str | 1 Mag | 11 Skl | 13 Spd | - Luck | 6 Def | 3 Res

DracoKnight - 20 HP | 8 Str | 1 Mag | 5 Skl | 7 Spd | - Luck | 10 Def | 3 Res

Mage - 16 HP | 0 Str | 3 Mag | 1 Skl | 3 Spd | - Luck | 2 Def | 3 Res
Sage - 22 HP | 3 Str | 4 Mag | 2 Skl | 4 Spd | - Luck | 3 Def | 5 Res

Curate - 16 HP | 0 Str | 1 Mag | 1 Skl | 4 Spd | - Luck | 3 Def | 6 Res
Bishop - 22 HP | 1 Str | 3 Mag | 2 Skl | 4 Spd | - Luck | 3 Def | 8 Res

Base Growths: 35 HP | 20 Str | 5 Mag | 25 Skl | 40 Spd | 40 Luck | 5 Def | 5 Res

Base Growths for Classes

Cavalier / Paladin - 40 HP | 15 Str | -10 Mag | 25 Skl | 10 Spd | - Luck | 15 Def | -5 Res

DracoKnight - 30 HP | 10 Str | -15 Mag | 20 Skl | 25 Spd | - Luck | 10 Def | 0 Res

Archer / Sniper - 40 HP | 10 Str | -10 Mag | 20 Skl | 30 Spd | - Luck | 10 Def | -10 Res

Myrmidion / Swordmaster - 50 HP | 10 Str | -10 Mag | 20 Skl | 25 Spd | - Luck | 5 Def | -5 Res

Mage - 20 HP | -10 Str | 30 Mag | 20 Skl | 15 Spd | - Luck | -15 Def | 10 Res
Curate - 20 HP | -15 Str | 10 Mag | 15 Skl | 20 Spd | - Luck | -10 Def | 30 Res
Sage / Bishop - 20 HP | -15 Str | 20 Mag | 20 Skl | 20 Spd | - Luck | -15 Def | 20 Res

Explaination of Unpromoted Class(es)

Much like Abel, Cain just likes being a Cavalier. D in Swords is not bad, so don't feel afraid to exercise Myrmidion in Chapter 6X or 9 if you want to. Even in Chapter 8 I wouldn't call it hell since the tradeoff is Def and Movement vs. doubling the Cavaliers and Archers. Aain, wouldn't highly recommend Mage but it is an option.

Cain wants to exercise Lances as much as possible in the earlygame portion. He appreciates D Lances to help him catch up to Abel since that grants Cain a 2 range option. Until then you're stuck with D Swords, which is not that useful until Chapter 2, Chapter 3 if you let Ogma use the Steel Sword in Chapter 2. Once he his Javelins he'll be alright. C Swords isn't a total curse though; Armorslayer is a good weapon to brag despite its late appearance. It's best to continue building up your Lance rank as much as possible.

Explaination of Promted Class(es)

The options are quite simple. Paladin allows Cain to continue the use of his Swods while gaining a slight boost in his Lance rank. It's a good class to avoid the Ballistae and Sniper-filled chapters. DracoKnight is great due to its flight advantage and better WTC. Thanks to DracoKnights +2 Def base and gaining +2 Def if Cain has WTA against the opponent. Sniper is also a great class due to its boosted Spd stat and C Bows.

Cain using DracoKnight is recommended. It gives him the proper Spd growth that he wants, retains his Lance rank, and has better weapon triangle control. Use Sniper in instances such as Chapter 21 and Chapter 22 where having Bows is a great asset. Paladin should only be used if there are many bow / magic users on the map.

The Colonel's Thoughts

Cain kills sisters. 11/10.

Okay, serious ranking. Cain's major savior is being around earlygame. Lack of 2 range... sucks. Literally, it is the reason why Cain desn't have as much of a momental advantage in comparison to his partner Abel. Though, this isn't supposed to be a comparison of Cain vs. Abel, it is to help describe his advntages. D Swords isn't an excellent advantage, but it does have its perks. Steel Sword isn't much to brag about sadly, but since Chapters 2 and 3 are Axe-heavy it gives him leniency on accuracy and, to small extents, having an "okay" chance to avoid a counterattack. It's not worth hyping over, so please keep that in mind. Cain should try to get D Lances ASAP, so keep in mind that he should exercise the Lance rank as much as possible earlygame. If he can net D Lances before Chapter 4, he should be alright. Use the Swords from time to time to at least get up to Armorslayer, then switch back to Lances to continue building that rank. Armorslayer utility, while it isn't something to drool all over about, is still nice to have when Cain has 9 Mov to back it up. Charging up to an Armor Knight and ORKOing is still a great advantage to have despite the loss of Ridersbane. This will just require Cain's team to carry one of Hardin, Jeigan, or trained Abel for Ridersbane.

Cain's D Swords actually give him an advantage over Abel: reclassing. While Myrmidion is not something worth hyping over, he does have the option to reclass there and use his Sword rank to its full advantages. This is great in chapters such as 6X and 9 where Axes are common. He can use the class where Lances aren't so threatening to the team, which consist of many of the earlygame chapters (shockingly). Chapter 5's worst nightmare is the Armor Knights, Chapter 8 is full of Sword Cavaliers, and Chapter 4 is about 50/50 in Lance | Axe ratio. Of course before reclassing one should ask themselves if Cavalier is more useful in those other instances. Anyway, I'd definitely go Myrmidion in 6X and 9 if possible just because doubling those Pirates while dealing a decent amount of damage is nice to have when the chapters aren't so easy to begin with (especially Chapter 9).

Promotion should help Cain reach Silver Lance at the worst case scenario. Once again, Paladin should only be used if you're threatened by Bows, Magi, and Ballistae. This is only common in Chapter 13, Chapter 17, Chapter 20, and Chapter 23. Aside from that, DracoKnight is a superior choice, especially in Chapter 15 where the desert bogs down many unit's movement. Sniper can be used in Chapter 17 since there are many walls that require 2 range to pass through. I wouldn't doubt Swordmaster to be a bad option in Chapter 24 since he can likely back himself up with a Silver Sword vs. the Heroes and Snipers that plague the chapter with the Mamkutes. At this point, it's likely better to just read back on Abel's ranking discussion except replacing "Abel" with "Cain" as far as promoted classes go. Supports are generall the same as Abel's except he supports Catria instead of Palla.

Cain and Abel have minor differences. Cain's D Swords is still a minor advantage to have since it frees Cain to reclass easier without harming his damage output (much) and it does give him the capability of reaching Armorslayer. Furthermore, being forced earlygame means that he has time to build up his Lance rank. All he needs is 5 hits with it per chapter to get access to Javelins by Chapter 4. Nothing too difficult about this and the rewards of 2 range are worth it. After you hit C in Swords, unless you're a Myrmidion for that chapter, I recommend sticking to the Lance rank and only using Armorslayer for Swords. He's still a good slot on the team despite all the rage against him. The tradeoff here between Cain and Abel is Armorslayer and slightly easier reclassing vs. Ridersbane and Javelin potshots in the earlygame portion.

Overall Rating: 8.5/10

Edited March 2, 2010 by Tyranel M

[Colonel M]

Jeigan

Base Stats / Growths

Base Stats - 0 HP | 0 Str | 0 Mag | 5 Skl | 1 Spd | 1 Luck | 1 Def | 0 Res

Base Stats for Classes

Paladin - 22 HP | 7 Str | 1 Mag | 5 Skl | 7 Spd | - Luck | 8 Def | 6 Res

DracoKnight - 20 HP | 8 Str | 1 Mag | 5 Skl | 7 Spd | - Luck | 10 Def | 3 Res

Sniper - 24 HP | 7 Str | 1 Mag | 8 Skl | 9 Spd | - Luck | 7 Def | 3 Res

Swordmaster - 22 HP | 5 Str | 1 Mag | 11 Skl | 13 Spd | - Luck | 6 Def | 3 Res

Sage - 22 HP | 3 Str | 4 Mag | 2 Skl | 4 Spd | - Luck | 3 Def | 5 Res

Bishop - 22 HP | 1 Str | 3 Mag | 2 Skl | 4 Spd | - Luck | 3 Def | 8 Res

Base Growths - 0 HP | 5 Str | 10 Mag | 10 Skl | 5 Spd | 30 Luck | 5 Def | 5 Res

Base Growths for Classes

40 HP | 15 Str | -10 Mag | 25 Skl | 10 Spd | - Luck | 15 Def | -5 Res

30 HP | 10 Str | -15 Mag | 20 Skl | 25 Spd | - Luck | 10 Def | 0 Res

Sniper - 40 HP | 10 Str | -10 Mag | 20 Skl | 30 Spd | - Luck | 10 Def | -10 Res

Swordmaster - 50 HP | 10 Str | -10 Mag | 20 Skl | 25 Spd | - Luck | 5 Def | -5 Res

Sage / Bishop - 20 HP | -15 Str | 20 Mag | 20 Skl | 20 Spd | - Luck | -15 Def | 20 Res

Explaination of Promoted Class(es)

So obviously we're forced to use Paladin for earlygame. I'd recommend going to this class in certain chapters such as 6 where there's a lot of Archers running around and the padding in Res helps vs. the couple Mages here. It's also not a terrible choice in Chapter 9, but I guess Swordmaster can be used. Speaking of that, Swordmaster isn't that bad in 6X and 9 since Jeigan can double most of the Pirates with his Spd base (14), though the 5 base Str sort of hurts when you're not using a Killing Edge. I recommend using that though despite its mediocre Crit rates since Jeigan has 28 base Crit with it. DracoKnight should cover when you need flying, and rightfully use it so. Sniper is cool in C7 and C10. Finally Bishop Jeigan is okay only because of Staves, and just about nothing more.

The Colonel's Thoughts

So in most games we get this arch-type called the "Jeigan" arch-type. Usually the character is promoted when your others are not and look much stronger than everyone else. Some of them such as FE7 Marcus can turn out decent with training, but there are others that usually don't end up well due to their growths (FE3 Book 2 Alan has 10% growths in everything barring Luck and Res) or their availability becomes an issue (Dagda to some extents and Evayle). Aside from that, this dude is what started the arch-type.

Now Jeigan doesn't look very appealing in some instances. Even looking at the base stats with most of your team, he looks pretty meek. Compare Jeigan to base Abel:

Jeigan - 22 HP | 7 Str | 1 Mag | 10 Skl | 8 Spd | 1 Luck | 9 Def | 6 Res

Abel - 20 HP | 6 Str | 0 Mag | 7 Skl | 7 Spd | 2 Luck | 7 Def | 0 Res

Aside form Res (which is because its from Jeigan's promoted classes), Abel looks statistically similar to Jeigan. Granted, he's -2 HP | 2 Def from him, which actually makes a difference in the earlygame chapters; however, this does not mean Jeigan sucks of course. If anything, I'd almost consider Jeigan to be one of the most useful Jeigans in the series, and why that is I'll explain below.

First off, forced period. Of course this is usually all Jeigan arch-type's strong points, but it definitely plays as an ace of spades for Jeigan. In the first chapter, putting Jeigan on the fort turns the 16 Atk Pirates (remember +1 from WTA) into a 4RKO. On top of this, Jeigan with Silver Lance 2HKOes all of them. Compare this to Abel who 4RKOes with an Iron Sword. Vs. the boss, he is one of the few that don't get doubled or KO'ed in sight (if Cain doesn't proc Str he can go up against Gazzack period). On top of that, his Silver Lance hit does 14 damage at 60% Displayed. Compare this to Steel Bow Gordin who does 7 damage at 54% Displayed, and he stands as your second best unit to take him on due to not taking a counterattack and being the most accurate (Draug has 33 Displayed with Javelin, just to give you an idea). So long as the boss doesn't proc the Spd point, Jeigan is also useful for taking on the boss if you don't want to rely on resetting for Ogma crit with Steel Sword. Unfortunately he takes 16 | 22 damage from Gomer and a Vulnerary still leaves him within KO range. Granted, if you proc an HP or Def point (or he drops to 23 Atk) you can actually sit near Gomer twice on 2 consecutive Enemy Phases and take him down a peg with Silver Lance. That isn't bad when you consider Ogma to be the second best, and he absolutely relies on the crit to speed things up. Aside from the boss, Jeigan can run up north and nearly solo the place with a Vulnerary, though taking the Thief kills sort of sucks. If you're using Draug it's probably better to put him up there after the Pirate gets taken care of (no not Darros). If he's wielding Iron Sword (or Steel), the Pirates can 3HKO him if one of them have 19 Atk. He still 2RKOes with Silver Lance, but look at Abel and his 11 Atk against one of these guys. Now Abel 5RKOes the Pirates. So as you can see, Jeigan is pretty pivotal for those two chapters. Even in Chapter 3 he's probably one of your better units since you can plop him on that fort near you, taunt the Fighters to come see Jeigan, and at least do 17 damage to them, which helps a hell of a lot because these guys have about 37-38 HP on them. He can at least be 3RKOed if one of them has 19 Atk (which IIRC one of them in that group does at the very least), so being able to absorb two of them is awesome. Granted, keep in mind this is with the fort taken into account or he's pulling out Steel Sword. He doesn't do good vs. Hyman, but honestly only a sparse amount of units actually do good against him (Ogma and Barst w/Devil for finishing blow).

Now we finally hit Chapter 4 and we can start the reclassing goodness. Jeigan hitting C Swords seems a little unlikely unless you used Swords often in the earlier chapters (you'd almost have to burn through half of the Iron Sword), so using Jeigan for slayer duties might not seem possible until after Chapter 6X perhaps. Still, going DracoKnight would be the first choice of reclassing. It retains his Lance rank, which you want for sniping with Ridersbane once it comes around and being able to wield Silver Lance after Merak drops another one. On top of this, Jeigan is practically 3HKOed with WTA, so make sure that you pack that Iron Axe as well. Flying is great for instances such as Chapter 5 to make the New Orleans Saints Knights useful. It's also great in Chapter 7 since Jeigan is the only character, barring DracoKnight Wendell, to be able to reach the fort without triggering the reinforcements. If there are too many Archers and Mages threatening your path (like in 6X for instance), just stick to Paladin since it still conquers the same thing. If you can get C Swords with him, he can play as a mounted slayer machine and pick off Armor Knights | Cavaliers. This is great in Chapters such as Chapter 8 which are full of Cavaliers and Armor Knights. Sniper gives Jeigan a purpose in Chapter 10, but aside from that there isn't much use for the class with him in my opinion. Best thing you can do is use the classes that have his Lance rank preset or using Swordmaster for 6X and 9. If you're desperate to use Jeigan past Chapter 10, where I consider his utility to pretty much "end", then Bishop gives him auto-D in Staves. Aside from that, I wouldn't recommend it.

Jeigan's other advantages aside from offensive and reclassing power is within generics. Due to his prepromoted level, he actually helps out with the average Generics that you can get within the game. For example, let's say you have a team of Marth, Abel, Cain, Ogma, Barst, Lena, and Jeigan by C4. Let's say Marth, Abel, and Cain are Level 4, Barst is Level 5, Ogma is Level 6, and Lena is 3. We'll say Jeigan is Level 2 as well. Without Jeigan, we'll get a Generic that is about Level 4. Now adding Jeigan we get a Generic around Level 6. So while it's true that Jeigan won't affect the Generics by much, he does help indirectly into that equation, which gives him a reason to be kept around as well. Support-wise, he's only supported by Marth. Yup, he doesn't even support Cain and Abel, which is a major bummer.

So let's tie the knots together. We have a unit that has a powerful earlygame. Next, we have a unit that is basically a reclassing master due to A Class's decent bases and great effects (DracoKnight's flying, Paladin's retaining of Lance rank, Bishop's D Staves, etc). Finally, we have a unit that even helps indirectly with our Generics. Overall, Jeigan should be kept throughout most of the earlygame chapters. I'd at least consider him up until Chapter 10 if you can since he can make his last stand as a Sniper by hurting the DracoKnights and you need just about every teammate that you can get with a bow in their hands. If you're desperate to get rid of him, then my advice is to wait up until Chapter 7 at the very least. He has many pivotal advantages before that which greatly affect the team. Jeigan has a lot of cool advantages for being his own arch-type, and he at least deserves a slot for a temporary amount of time until your team gets stronger. Don't be afraid to use him and his advantages since it makes chapters much easier for quite a while, but at the same time don't be afraid to ditch him after Chapter 7-10, especially after Chapter 10 since the team should be alright without him at this point. Just make sure Jeigan goes down in a blaze of glory since he's made epic contributions to the team while he was around.

Rating - 6.5/10

Edited March 17, 2010 by Tyranel M

[Rewjeo]

Are you sure that WTA gives +1 MT in this game? Last I played this game, I remembered noticing that WT only affected hit. Although it has been a little while, so maybe I'm wrong.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Are you sure that WTA gives +1 MT in this game? Last I played this game, I remembered noticing that WT only affected hit. Although it has been a little while, so maybe I'm wrong.

http://serenesforest.net/fe11/calculation.html

CTRL + F "+1"

[Rewjeo]

Wait, so you'll only get extra damage if you have an A rank in that weapon? The wording's a little confusing. Although it would explain why I wasn't seeing a damage difference for WT.

[Colonel M]

How it works is like this. If you have a C rank in, say, Lances for example, you receive +1 Atk. If you have WTA; however, the Sword unit would only drop by 3 Atk (in other words if you have WTA the bonuses cancel out). If, however, you have an A Rank and have WTA, you receive an additional Atk point.

[Colonel M]

Gordin

Base Stats / Growths

Base Stats - 2 HP | 0 Str | 0 Mag | 0 Skl | 0 Spd | 4 Luck | 0 Def | 0 Res

Base Stats for Classes
Cavalier - 18 HP | 5 Str | 0 Mag | 2 Skl | 6 Spd | - Luck | 7 Def | 0 Res
Paladin - 22 HP | 7 Str | 1 Mag | 5 Skl | 7 Spd | - Luck | 8 Def | 6 Res

Archer - 16 HP | 5 Str | 0 Mag | 3 Skl | 4 Spd | - Luck | 6 Def | 0 Res
Sniper - 24 HP | 7 Str | 1 Mag | 8 Skl | 9 Spd | - Luck | 7 Def | 3 Res

Myrmidion - 16 HP | 3 Str | 0 Mag | 9 Skl | 11 Spd | - Luck | 4 Def | 0 Res
Swordmaster - 22 HP | 5 Str | 1 Mag | 11 Skl | 13 Spd | - Luck | 6 Def | 3 Res

DracoKnight - 20 HP | 8 Str | 1 Mag | 5 Skl | 7 Spd | - Luck | 10 Def | 3 Res

Mage - 16 HP | 0 Str | 3 Mag | 1 Skl | 3 Spd | - Luck | 2 Def | 3 Res
Sage - 22 HP | 3 Str | 4 Mag | 2 Skl | 4 Spd | - Luck | 3 Def | 5 Res

Curate - 16 HP | 0 Str | 1 Mag | 1 Skl | 4 Spd | - Luck | 3 Def | 6 Res
Bishop - 22 HP | 1 Str | 3 Mag | 2 Skl | 4 Spd | - Luck | 3 Def | 8 Res

Base Growths - 20 HP | 10 Str | 0 Mag | 20 Skl | 5 Spd | 40 Luck | 20 Def | 5 Res

Base Growths for Classes

Cavalier / Paladin - 40 HP | 15 Str | -10 Mag | 25 Skl | 10 Spd | - Luck | 15 Def | -5 Res

DracoKnight - 30 HP | 10 Str | -15 Mag | 20 Skl | 25 Spd | - Luck | 10 Def | 0 Res

Archer / Sniper - 40 HP | 10 Str | -10 Mag | 20 Skl | 30 Spd | - Luck | 10 Def | -10 Res

Myrmidion / Swordmaster - 50 HP | 10 Str | -10 Mag | 20 Skl | 25 Spd | - Luck | 5 Def | -5 Res

Mage - 20 HP | -10 Str | 30 Mag | 20 Skl | 15 Spd | - Luck | -15 Def | 10 Res
Curate - 20 HP | -15 Str | 10 Mag | 15 Skl | 20 Spd | - Luck | -10 Def | 30 Res
Sage / Bishop - 20 HP | -15 Str | 20 Mag | 20 Skl | 20 Spd | - Luck | -15 Def | 20 Res

Explanation of Utility Options

Let's face the reality here: using Gordin past a certain point of the game is rather suicide. So, you're practically stuck with the Archer class. If, however, you want to use Gordin past the point where his Bow utility isn't cutting it for you, slap him onto the Cleric class. I wouldn't even bother with promoting him. To give you an idea, 20/1 Gordin (taking Cleric for most of his life) that becomes a Sage has ~31 HP | 5.8 Mag | 8.8 Spd | 5.1 Def. Granted, he won't be doubled except by promoted enemies (and to be fair on Gordin, many promoted enemies can double a lot of your unpromoted team), but as one can see stats like that are quite unacceptable. So, stick with Archer and do what he does best after that: Gaiden sacrifice.

The Colonel's Thoughts

Captain Gordin: Defender not only of Altea, but also of Earth, comes in the form of Gaggles on Normal Mode. In H5, he is ungagged and ready to go. Now, there is the usual rag of "blargh Archer blargh"; however, Gordin plays as a useful unit for the earlygame chapters. Compare this to Abel using Javelin and WTD (as Pirates obviously have WTA) to Gordin's Steel Bow:

Abel - 12 Atk, 68 Hit

Gordin - 13 Atk, 85 Hit

!!! This is also before factoring in the Pirate's Avoid, which is 6, so Abel has 62% Hit, or 71.50% True. Gordin has 79 Hit, or 91.39% True. A significant 20% difference between the two (or 19.71%, but you get the point). Gordin is doing a little more damage as well, so as we can see Gordin is pretty useful upon his joining time frame. He's also your second best unit for taking on the boss since the rest of the cast either whiffs too easily or gets ORKOed if they approach too close (Cain). Then about halfway through Chapter 2 we get Castor. Now, I'm not going to play under the factor that because one character outclasses the other that the other should be dropped. Castor has roughly the same hit ratios as Gordin, but he outperforms Gordin damage-wise by 2 points. So Gordin runs into competition with his Steel Bow when Castor joins. Granted, they can both use the weapon, but the player will likely favor Castor for the higher damage output. Gordin is very useful in Chapter 3. Think 10 AS from the Fighters, nearing 40 HP, and low defense. Perfect targets for Archers. In my opinion, he's "okay" to use as an Archer until you find other generics with D Bows or at the least the end of Chapter 5. He can have some use after Chapter 7, if only because of the flying enemies on the map, but that's probably the furthest I would take Gordin. Given that he doesn't gain many levels over this timeframe as an Archer (let's say 5, to be nice), compare it to an 9 Abel now:

Javelin (Abel) - 17 Atk

Steel Bow (Gordin) - 15 Atk

So at this point, Gordin barely keeps up with his 2 range. The only advantage is being slightly more accurate (Chapter 9 for instance). This is also ignoring Abel being able to use Ridersbane and, possibly, Silver Lance.

Now of course as I said above: being outclassed by other units shouldn't give you a reason to be dropped. This mainly speaks for some of the earlier chapters. Even so, when you think about it, Gordin isn't seeing much positive utility after the reclass system. The Hunter class packs a bit more in power and doesn't rely on heavy Spd-based growths and bases. It also doesn't help that Archer has 5 Mov, so it makes Gordin look much worse. To add insult to the injury, every other class for Class A sucks for him. Myrmidion has a whopping 3 base Str on its 5 Mt Iron Sword and constant WTD. Yeah, good luck training with that. Cavalier is okay: 5 base Str, 6 base Spd, but rather shitty growth in Spd, which he desperately needs. Cleric lets him act like a generic with a portrait, assuming you need healing. Then again, if you're using Lena, Curate Merric from time to time, and Sage Wendell sometimes, healing isn't even that necessary. So you're basically left with an inferior unit that is much better placed as a Gaiden sacrifice.

I think it's pretty safe to say that most people shouldn't use Gordin seriously. As a utility unit, he has uses to some extents. The only thing is that they wear out rather quickly and, over time, he just looks like a decaying pile of garbage. So while more emphasis is made on his utility periods, his attempts at being a long-term unit hurts him overall.

Rating - 4/10

[Tables]

You haven't added Gaggles to the first post yet :).

Also, are you going to be aiming for 5/5.5 to be average, or will it just end up being whatever it ends up being?

[Colonel M]

Added Gaggles on the Scorecard.

Also, are you going to be aiming for 5/5.5 to be average, or will it just end up being whatever it ends up being?

To be honest, drawing an average is pretty difficult in this game. It'll likely be whatever it ends up being, but it's possible that I might rank Nagi / Gato in that category again, but chances are I'm going to give them a more fair / accurate / w/e rating. Honestly, I'd almost say 7.0 is near the average in this game, but I guess others would disagree to that statement (and I'm not saying this because I'm an American either).