Shin Megami Tensei Mafia Day 5

[Sham]

Cool, Minerva X posted. I'll like, do the same (and ISO the leading wagons maybe...maybe not, ISO's are a pain).

[Kamina]

It's okay Minerva I still love you

Twitter went a bit without posting and I was distracted so let me check that. His defense is Lucifer is a bit weird considering Lucy's RVS stuff felt a bit weird. There's a certain point where your trying starts looking fake like you're making shit up to look like you're doing stuff, and Lucy's at a bad spot on that spectrum. Combine this with overly wordy posts and they just look fake. Stuff like "What about my play is self conscious I was just joking calm down" reads a bit weird, and his last post is just like, rambling nonsense.

Then Lucy disappeared for 2 days*. Where you at?

But anyway, back to Twitter. The Lucy stuff doesn't mean much I think unless Lucy is scum (protip: vig Lucy). Raido's post was really bad but I don't see why Twitter decided to drop everything else to vote him? To be fair, I expected Raido to continue posting after dropping a vote on me (spoilers: he didn't), and it's likely Twitter did too. But, I still don't think the Raido wagon is likely to go anywhere. Twitter's follow up explanation for the Raido vote seems pretty solid, but as I literally just said, I don't think there is enough going for a Raido lynch today (and it likely wouldn't be a top choice for me).

I do feel like Twitter needs to talk more about other users, I don't have a good idea of who he suspects other than Raido and maybe slightly Deathbound (he didn't consider it enough for a vote so maybe more me but he hasn't said shit about me)

The more I think about this the more uncomfortable I get about Twitter.

*more like 33 hours or so but I rounded up

[Sham]

I'll do my best to keep this brief! Before that, just want to say that people complaining about my wincon thing are being dumb, because either they're admitting I'm town (and thus shouldn't complaining about an easy read) or think that I'm scum (in which case, scum already knew town's wincon). Check and mate.

OK, so let's talk about Red Eye. Like, being a jerk is bad, but lynching someone for that is totally the wrong response. Samael makes a good point about his post lacking in scumhunting (don't agree with the rest, though), but I'm not seeing the scum intent in being so deliberately contradictory and well, honest. Scum is supposed to try to appease town, not alienate it. Wouldn't lynch today.

Eh, Scum Goon's reasoning for his early game actions are fine, so dropping that case (for now, hehehe). He actually brings up a good point about Red Eye (specifically how SG isn't just scumreading him for sheeping) and stickmanramp in this post, although I don't agree with his issues with Knuckles (he has Knuckles on his second highest for what seems like a misunderstanding more than anything else). Don't really have anything to say about his post afterwards except that his indecision seems more likely to come from town. Maybe. Also noone would case Kelpie as scum...I think. He even brought up some legitimate points there which I will look into later.

Sheeping what others said about RAIDO. His initial post doesn't really add anything, would be pretty OK with him dealing with Street Justice.

[Sham]

Death.., Red Eye explicitly stated that he was sheeping the vote on the fangirl. I don't know why you would say otherwise. Also not really bothered by Death..'s vote on me (I mean, several people apparently had that issue with my read despite it being CRYSTAL CLEAR so whatever) but I don't like how he never follows up on it. I made a reads post, what do you even think of it? Also he just calls out Red Eye on being a jerk (fair, but not a good reason to vote him) and being honest (would it have been better for Red Eye not to admit he wasn't reading the fangirl) which just seem like easy reasons to attack him. Also don't like how he mentioned (here) that stickmanramp had one of the best Red Eye votes (and in general complaining about peoples' Red Eye votes)...it's just the wording here that bothers me, like he knows that Red Eye is going to get mislynched. Like who complains about their scum reads getting voted not me that's who. Honestly a lot of his reads seem like filler, amounting to null reads at the end. This is also a good case against him (made by his counterwagon of sorts admittedly so there's bound to be SOME bias but yeah).

Deathbound's recent posts are better. I don't know why, fuck you. You know what they (e.g. scum) say about gut reads; easy come, easy go. Also he stole had similar points to some of my own, and since I'm the model townie, that's good. In particular, I agree with him about Death.. and Samael. BTW, most of my posts are probably just RVS, useless posts, or not directly game related content so I don't think my postcount is really indicative of how much I've contributed to the game. *shrugs*

[Sham]

One liners about every player in the game.

Lucifer's #1 Fangirl- Pretty pivotal player early on and actually fun roleplaying IMO, but then disappeared which makes it harder for me to read her overall. Void.

Deathbound- Bothered by him early on, but his recent posts are a lot townier so I think it was just me. Light.

RAIDO- Initial post was lame, step it up. Dark.

The Wife- The true goddess has already been reincarnated, and it's me bitch. ???.

Red Eye- Deliberately caustic yes, but his reads have been good for the most part and noone has really stated why his actions are scummy (even though he should be less of a jerk, calling you out). Light.

Knuckles on Steroids- I should probably have a more detailed read on him, but his posts are always at the end of my long reads when I've lost my motivation to continue. Gutreading as Light, but probably will reread if someone ever makes a convincing case on him. Light.

Death..- Don't really like his scum read on Red Eye and the majority of his reads have amounted to null in the end, and also just read my fucking case. Dark.

Scum Goon- His explanation for my issues was pretty OK, and his later posts have been fine also casing people who make huge wall posts is pretty townie because scum would be too lazy too #greatreads. Light.

No Lynch- I can't have a read on him in good faith because his post made no fucking sense to me. Viggable.

Samael- Initial post wasn't that great and didn't come through with any of the followup reads. Viggable.

stickmanramp- Reading as town based off of meta alone, go me. Light.

Twitter_Famous- You'd think I'd pay more attention to someone I cased early on, but nope; he hasn't really stood out to me ever since then. Void.

Kelpie- Scum Goon made a good point against her, so totally sheeping that despite never having read her posts. Dark.

Minerva X- Great avatar, must be town. Light.

Kenji Harima- I forgot he was playing in this game, whoops. Void.

##Unvote

##Vote: Death..

[Sham]

RAIDO should be viggable. #greatproofreading

[Sham]

Did I mention I still haven't read Minerva X's and Kelpie' posts? I will soon!

[Sham]

ALSO WHOEVER IS THE LEADING WAGON SHOULD CLAIM (it's Death.. right)

[Aizen]

I am really sorry that I had been inactive all this while, I was intentionally postponing this game for others and now it is too far for me to catch up on, I will drop some thoughts of what I think of the first few pages first

my vote on Fangirl was quite serious for being an OMGUS, but I will admit that Fangirl's OMGUS is what got the game mostly out of RVS. However, I do not agree with Wife when she said stuff about Fangirl's posts having townslips and should be town because as mentioned by a few, it can be done by either alignment and not going to agree with people for clearing her right away. As for what DB mentioned about Fangirl overreacting and being self-conscience, I actually agree with what he said.

I see Stick post and it seems like it was a round of less annoying insults rebounded onto Redeye for throwing insults at first and calling fangirl town. Feels more like calling Red Eye scum for Redeye voting fangirls cause Stick is reading fangirl as town more than anything else. Things I did like about Stick's post is that he said Wife was trying too hard to portray Fangirl as town and that Fangirl's townslips doesn't mean town. I decided to do a quick iso of Stick and it turns out he is mostly ignoring stuff said to him with jokes and stuff and going around the questions sent his way. I will admit I didn't read the thread properly to say this, but other than the next time he defends why he thinks Fangirl is town, his posts are pretty bad. His play is exactly like scum!Cam from Tyne-Wear

##Unvote:

##Vote: Stick

some annoying things I do not want to deal with came up and hopefully I will get to postpone it for later and continue this post

[Sham]

I didn't want to talk about players' identities, but I guess you leave me no choice. I thought his play was more like town!Cam as scum!Cam had a very hard time BSing content and this comes across as him being townier overall (especially considering the quote walls as opposed to just one liners). Granted he was traveling and his scum play would possibly be better here, but the assertion that his play is like it was in Tyne Ware is ridiculous.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

Samael, why do scum want to be intentionally an ass more than town?

Town has no reason at all to act in such a manner, but as mafia it could serve as a way of allowing Scum!RedEye to distance herself from her scumbuddies. With that said, I did not vote Red Eye in my previous post for 2 reasons.

• 1: I originally thought Red Eye was a jester or some variant considering the bastard status of the game, however after doublechecking the rules I now know that to be impossible. and
• 2: If her goal was to distance herself from possible scumbuddies, doing so this aggressively on the first day would likely hurt scum more than it would help.

On top of that, Red Eye's recent posts have been providing more justification for her vote on Death, and I agree with her assertions against him.

Concerning Death, his gameplay recently indicates he's tunneling hard against Red Eye, while posting null, fluff reads on other players in order to make his tunneling less obvious. However, I'm unsure if it's Scum!Death focusing on Town!RedEye simply because he has the largest wagon against him and would make an easy myslynch, or if Death is upset with Red Eye's behavior (Which is understandable) and is letting his emotions influence his voting. In any case, it's clearly anti-town behavior.

Currently, I consider Stickmanramp as my biggest scumread. Post 160 sets off quite a few red flags. In particular how he rudely brushed aside the criticisms against him. His vote on Red Eye is weak, whose justification is built on the foundation of Red Eye's sheep vote during RVS. What makes Red Eye's sheep vote at such an early stage of the game so prominent? Is it merely because "s/he makes me angry"? Or are you simply pursuing the easiest mys-lynch opportunity while deliberately shrugging off any assertions against you? Because that's definitely what it looks like.

#Vote: Stickmanramp

@The Wife

Are you trying to use meta to justify a player's actions in an anonymous game? I see little value in doing so here.

[Marisa Kirisame]

I overslept (wow this seems to be a common theme) so this post will be short (really) cuz I have to leave soon.

Minerva's content looks okay at a skim.

@Red Eye- well, you haven't actually done anything townie so yeah basically that's right. You just happen to probably be the Townie Who Got ED1 Wagoned rather than Scum.

@Samael- How does being an ass allow you to distance yourself from your scumbuddies? That logic doesn't compute at all. Also you're kind of fence-sitting on the biggest wagon of the day. Do you think he's scum or not? I agree with the Stickman vote though.

I don't really agree with the Cam meta because

a) lol meta in an anon game

b) the meta is not really correct anyways; using quotewalls as a sign of town meta isn't right when only the first quotewall actually had content in it

[Sham]

The Third Votals

Please note that the votes are not in any kind of order.

Death.. (5): Lucifer's #1 Fangirl, Red Eye, Scum Goon, Deathbound, The Wife

Lucifer's #1 Fangirl (1): Kenji Harima

Red Eye (4): Kelpie, stickmanramp, RAIDO, Death..

Deathbound (1): No Lynch

RAIDO (1): Knuckles on Steroids

stickmanramp (3): Minerva X, Kenji Harima, Samael

There is approximately 13 hours, 43 minutes left in the phase. 6 players are required to lynch at deadline, and 8 players are required for a hammer.

[Sham]

I don't really agree with the Cam meta because

a) lol meta in an anon game

b) the meta is not really correct anyways; using quotewalls as a sign of town meta isn't right when only the first quotewall actually had content in it

a) lol it's so obvious it's Cam

b) fair point probably shouldn't have read him as town so easily), but I dunno. still don't see why he's scum, the reads on him are shit (will comment on this shortly), and the way a third wagon came up so suddenly near deadline just...bothers me. i can't really say why, and i'm not sure if this is supposed to make me feel worse about the current wagons or the people voting stickmanramp, but yeah.

[Sham]

So like, I read Minerva X's post. Comments below.

-WRT the fangirl, do you think scum would welcome attacks on them?

-If I was a mason, I sure as hell wouldn't claim on Day 1 like some scrub. Also I wouldn't let my mason buddy hard defend me. So I must be...

-Agree that stickmanramp should have an actual read on me.

-Also you make a good point about him dropping the sheeping argument.

-While Twitter_Famous' post here was unnecessarily aggressive, I don't see why it's scummy. Look at it this way, noone seriously suspected him at that point, so I don't see why scum would be passive aggressive there. Comes across as town being upset because people are oversimplifying his case.

-I didn't read Kelpie's posts, but any points about me being scummy are wrong so there. #greatdefense #besttownie

-Totally agree with you about Red Eye.

-Honestly, I'm not sure Deathbound would stick to his Lucy vote after I called him out on it?

-Actually brings up up more legit points about stickmanramp (too lazy to quote, but they're in MINERVA X's pages 8-9 quoteblock). Moving him down to a null read. Other votes on him are still bad though I sware.

-Honestly Death..'s read on me kind of surprised me too. I didn't really know what to make of it though, so I kind of...didn't shut up I'm lazy.

Conclusion: Probably town (see: my lack of complaints relative to the amount of content), please make more posts. Would like people not to give in to the MUST IGNORE WALL POSTS reaction because there are actually legit points. :3 #townbuddying #irule

[Sham]

I see Stick post and it seems like it was a round of less annoying insults rebounded onto Redeye for throwing insults at first and calling fangirl town. Feels more like calling Red Eye scum for Redeye voting fangirls cause Stick is reading fangirl as town more than anything else. Things I did like about Stick's post is that he said Wife was trying too hard to portray Fangirl as town and that Fangirl's townslips doesn't mean town. I decided to do a quick iso of Stick and it turns out he is mostly ignoring stuff said to him with jokes and stuff and going around the questions sent his way. I will admit I didn't read the thread properly to say this, but other than the next time he defends why he thinks Fangirl is town, his posts are pretty bad. His play is exactly like scum!Cam from Tyne-Wear

##Unvote:

##Vote: Stick

Where does Stickmanramp throw insults and why is it scummy? Scum doesn't vote people for voting their townreads; if what you're saying is true, then yes it's suboptimal play but not scummy. And then you end on his play being like scum!Cam from Tyne-Wear, OK...but why is stickmanramp scummy?

(I don't think Kenji is scummy for this read considering he's apparently busy or in a rush or something and I know I'm currently nullreading stickmanramp but meh; I just don't really agree with the reasoning here)

[Grace]

reminder: don't talk about ongoing games (extended to events and/or flips from that game)

like sure, referenced players may not be alive in that game, but it's still a thing due to potentially breaking NOC. don't do it.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Curly Brace

[Rain Nijika]

I have returned. These wallposts are daunting however, so I expect I will take some time to produce anything of note.

[Sham]

Town has no reason at all to act in such a manner, but as mafia it could serve as a way of allowing Scum!RedEye to distance herself from her scumbuddies. With that said, I did not vote Red Eye in my previous post for 2 reasons.

• 1: I originally thought Red Eye was a jester or some variant considering the bastard status of the game, however after doublechecking the rules I now know that to be impossible. and
• 2: If her goal was to distance herself from possible scumbuddies, doing so this aggressively on the first day would likely hurt scum more than it would help.

On top of that, Red Eye's recent posts have been providing more justification for her vote on Death, and I agree with her assertions against him.

Concerning Death, his gameplay recently indicates he's tunneling hard against Red Eye, while posting null, fluff reads on other players in order to make his tunneling less obvious. However, I'm unsure if it's Scum!Death focusing on Town!RedEye simply because he has the largest wagon against him and would make an easy myslynch, or if Death is upset with Red Eye's behavior (Which is understandable) and is letting his emotions influence his voting. In any case, it's clearly anti-town behavior.

Currently, I consider Stickmanramp as my biggest scumread. Post 160 sets off quite a few red flags. In particular how he rudely brushed aside the criticisms against him. His vote on Red Eye is weak, whose justification is built on the foundation of Red Eye's sheep vote during RVS. What makes Red Eye's sheep vote at such an early stage of the game so prominent? Is it merely because "s/he makes me angry"? Or are you simply pursuing the easiest mys-lynch opportunity while deliberately shrugging off any assertions against you? Because that's definitely what it looks like.

#Vote: Stickmanramp

@The Wife

Are you trying to use meta to justify a player's actions in an anonymous game? I see little value in doing so here.

This post bothers me a lot more! OK, Deathbound already went over my issues with the Red Eye case. Also another problem is that I don't buy the followup at all; you spent your first post talking about Red Eye to the exclusion of all other players and here the followup is just a one liner about "oh he made a good case probably town idk". Also don't really like the Death.. case, because it goes nowhere and is inconclusive. Anti-town behavior is not a conclusion. But really it's the Stickmanramp case that bothers me the most. Firstly, setting off red flags is scum rhetoric (universal tells always work right). But seriously, how is being rude scummy? Then you complain about him voting someone who you were scumreading previously yourself wtf. Nice turnaround there, champ. How are you even confident enough in your Red Eye read to know that he's a mislynch candidate anyways?

Also fuck the formatting in the quoted section seriously.

[Sham]

I can see a Death../Samael/Kelpie/??? scumteam at this point. Making statements like these is going to make me very sad at postgame when it turns out I was wrong on all of the above but for now I have faith.

[Sham]

ALSO DEATH.. PLEASE CLAIM

If his claim turns out to be super townie or something and I fucked up, will consolidate on stickmanramp over Red Eye. Also bye.

[Olivier]

I am hero Neko shogun. I am the one fing vanilla in a bastard game. And I have a shitty post restriction. Thanks Marth/Manix

[Sham]

##Unvote

##Vote: stickmanramp

Not exactly super townie, but not really a scum claim either. Going with this and actually going for real this time (probably bad on some level that I'm voting with a scumread meh). #BBMstrategies #VanillaClaimsAreAlwaysTown #GreatReads

[Ochako Uraraka]

lmao i'm not sure whether it's funnier that i'm apparently now a lynch candidate out of nowhere or that i got meta'd in defense

[Rain Nijika]

Red Eye's contributions are continuing to improve, lessening my suspicion on the slot even further. I am unwilling to lynch the man at this moment in time.

I feel as though Kelpie is continuing to attack errors in posting rather than suspicious behaviour. Addressing her points on Red Eye:

1. The outright numbers of the wagon mattered very little when Death placed his vote on Red Eye, the issue was (as Red Eye points out in the following sentence) that once the true number of hours in the face is revealed to all Death make no attempt to reevaluate his vote and simply holds down his vote on Red Eye for being antagonistic instead of for suspicious behaviour. I needn't explain why this is an awful vote.

2.

a. Whilst it is true that town has no reason to be antagonistic towards others, this goes doubly for scum, as their individual survival is far more important than that of a townie's. I find the ommision of this fact convenient as best.

b. Do you have reason to believe that Red Eye was attempting to jump onto a wagon rather than being ignorant of the votals like he claimed? This is a bold assumption you are making, with only vague theories to back them up.

c. I agree that not reading posts is obviously a bad idea, but for what reason is Red Eye worse than others such as The Wife who have admitted to the same?

d. What content Red Eye has produced is leagues better than Death's mass-produced nullreads.

I don't particularly feel like addressing the other points in the interest of time, so I won't.

Knuckles: what I disagreed with was that L1F's act was scummy, even if the vote was mediocre. Whilst I acknowledged Deathbound's issues with L1F, I found myself disagreeing with his conclusion.

I would post my greivences with stickman but Kenji's #209 does an excellent job of summing up the case for me. Hearing his other thoughts would be interesting, however.

The way that Samael proposes multiple explanations for the behaviour of Death yet fails to decide on which he believes in (failing to even attempt to differentiate between the two) is worrisome. Whilst I have no outright issue with his stickman read, I find the fact that he has no other definite scumread at such a late stage in the day a cause for concern.

I find myself indifferent to the claim. Vanilla is a simple fakeclaim for scum to make and I find myself confused as to why Death would have a restriction whilst others have shown no sign of a restriction. I would like him to post the justification for his restriction as it seems rather strange.

I cannot cast a proper judgement on stickman without more indepth reading. Unfortunately, my motivation has been exhausted and it seems likely that I will have to leave soon. I will return with my findings at a time closer to the end of the phase.

Lastly, I miss adblocker.