Question about BEXP in fixed mode

[Kaplan]

When using BEXP in fixed mode does the equipment alteration still apply or does it only apply in battles?

Edited March 27, 2010 by Tambo

[VincentASM]

I'm not completely sure, but I think it does apply.

I'm currently playing fixed mode so I can check later if you'd like.

[Kaplan]

Thanks, it'd be useful to know.

[VincentASM]

I checked with Tormod and weapon alterations are indeed used.

Tormod's Magic and Res growths are 45 and he has 50 Growth points in Magic to begin with.

No items equipped

Magic/Res +0

Level 8: No stats gained

Level 9: HP, Mag, Spd +1

Level 10: Skl, Lck, Res +1

Fire equipped

Res +5

Level 8: No stats gained

Level 9: HP, Mag, Spd, Res +1

Level 10: Skl, Lck +1

Bolting equipped

Magic +5

Level 8: Mag +1

Level 9: Spd +1

Level 10: HP, Mag, Skl, Lck, Res +1

[Kaplan]

Thanks a lot Vincent. :)

[Narga_Rocks]

I checked with Tormod and weapon alterations are indeed used.

Tormod's Magic and Res growths are 45 and he has 50 Growth points in Magic to begin with.

No items equipped

Magic/Res +0

Level 8: No stats gained

Level 9: HP, Mag, Spd +1

Level 10: Skl, Lck, Res +1

Fire equipped

Res +5

Level 8: No stats gained

Level 9: HP, Mag, Spd, Res +1

Level 10: Skl, Lck +1

Bolting equipped

Magic +5

Level 8: Mag +1

Level 9: Spd +1

Level 10: HP, Mag, Skl, Lck, Res +1

Can you run a short test with Tormod to see whether every exp point counts or just what is equipped during level gains? So, like, equip nothing for 90 exp points and then switch to Bolting for the next 10 points? Also, I don't know if growth points are integers or real numbers. If you give them 1 point of exp at a time, do they get anything at all?

[VincentASM]

Sure, I can do that. I'll need to reach the next chapter first, since I've used up all my BEXP.

I'm guessing they use reals or something similar since Blossom!Sothe will gain the correct stats even with his fractional growths (eg. 33 1/3% gives a +1 every 3 Levels).

[Anouleth]

Blossom!Sothe doesn't have non-integer growths. The effect of Blossom is that growths are rolled with a random integer from 1 to 90 instead of 1 to 100.

[VincentASM]

That's from the Random Mode point of view, but in Fixed Mode RNs aren't used at all.

Also, I checked what Narga_Rocks asked, but I'm a little mystified at what I found out. Just in case I was completely getting the wrong idea, I also had NTG watch over the proceedings...

Mage Band equipped

Mag +10

Exp with ^

50 +1

49 +1

48 +0

47 +1

46 +0

45 +1

44 +0

43 +1

42 +0

41 +1

40 +0

39 +0

Bolting equipped

Mag +5

Exp with ^

100 +1

99-90 +1

89 +1

88 +0

87 +1

86 +0

85 +1

84 +0

83 +1

82 +0

81 +1

80 +0

79 +0

Any clues as to what's up? o__o

Also, I found that giving 3 lots of 10 exp with the Mage Band equipped apparently has the effect of giving > 5 growth points (as opposed to 3). So for every 100 exp, you could cheat the system of ~6 growth points, which in 38 Levels gives 2 extra stats.

I'll need to obtain some more BEXP to check for certain though.

[uzy5o]

Mage Band equipped

Mag +10

Exp with ^

50 +1

49 +1

48 +0

47 +1

46 +0

45 +1

44 +0

43 +1

42 +0

41 +1

40 +0

39 +0

Does this mean you gave 50 exp with mage band and the rest without, then reset and gave 49 exp with mage band and the rest without, etc.?

[VincentASM]

Does this mean you gave 50 exp with mage band and the rest without, then reset and gave 49 exp with mage band and the rest without, etc.?

Yep, exactly.

I'm at the final chapter right now, so I can't get anymore BEXP for testing. I did have enough to do one final test though.

Tormod with Mage Band permanently equipped and given 10 lots of BEXP every time.

Level 8: Mag, Spd +1

Level 9: HP, Res +1

Level 10: Mag, Skl, Spd, Lck +1

Level 11: HP, Def, Res +1

Level 12: Str, Mag, Skl, Spd, Lck +1

Level 13: HP, Mag, Res +1

That last Mag increase is quite important. Tormod's Growth Points should be 50 (base) + (45 [growth] + 10 [Mage Band]) *6 [# of Level Ups] = 380

So that should only give him 3 Mag increases for those Levels. However, he got >20 extra Growth Points to gain that 4th increase (probably 6 ["cheated" points] * 6 [# of Level Ups] = 36 extra points).

[uzy5o]

I'm going to calculate growth points to see if I can figure something out.

Mage Band equipped
Mag +10
Exp with ^
50 +1   50 + 55*.50 + 45*.50 = 50 + 27.50 + 22.50 = 100.00
49 +1   50 + 55*.49 + 45*.51 = 50 + 26.95 + 22.95 = 99.90
48 +0   50 + 55*.48 + 45*.52 = 50 + 26.40 + 23.40 = 99.80
47 +1   50 + 55*.47 + 45*.53 = 50 + 25.85 + 23.85 = 99.70
46 +0   50 + 55*.46 + 45*.54 = 50 + 25.30 + 24.30 = 99.60
45 +1   50 + 55*.45 + 45*.55 = 50 + 24.75 + 24.75 = 99.50
44 +0   50 + 55*.44 + 45*.56 = 50 + 24.20 + 25.20 = 99.40
43 +1   50 + 55*.43 + 45*.57 = 50 + 23.65 + 25.65 = 99.30
42 +0   50 + 55*.42 + 45*.58 = 50 + 23.10 + 26.10 = 99.20
41 +1   50 + 55*.41 + 45*.59 = 50 + 22.55 + 26.55 = 99.10
40 +0   50 + 55*.40 + 45*.60 = 50 + 22.00 + 27.00 = 99.00
39 +0   50 + 55*.39 + 45*.61 = 50 + 21.45 + 27.45 = 98.90

I think I got it figured out: the game rounds growth points to the nearest integer. If that's true, the game actually calculates growth points like this:

Mage Band equipped
Mag +10
Exp with ^
50 +1   50 + 55*.50 + 45*.50 = 50 + 28 + 23 = 101
49 +1   50 + 55*.49 + 45*.51 = 50 + 27 + 23 = 100
48 +0   50 + 55*.48 + 45*.52 = 50 + 26 + 23 = 99
47 +1   50 + 55*.49 + 45*.51 = 50 + 26 + 24 = 100
46 +0   50 + 55*.48 + 45*.52 = 50 + 25 + 24 = 99
45 +1   50 + 55*.49 + 45*.51 = 50 + 25 + 25 = 100
44 +0   50 + 55*.48 + 45*.52 = 50 + 24 + 25 = 99
43 +1   50 + 55*.49 + 45*.51 = 50 + 24 + 26 = 100
42 +0   50 + 55*.48 + 45*.52 = 50 + 23 + 26 = 99
41 +1   50 + 55*.49 + 45*.51 = 50 + 23 + 27 = 100
40 +0   50 + 55*.40 + 45*.60 = 50 + 22 + 27 = 99
39 +0   50 + 55*.39 + 45*.61 = 50 + 21 + 27 = 98

My hypothesis seems to fit the data perfectly. :)

Edited March 28, 2010 by uzy5o

[Narga_Rocks]

Well, at least it is willing to round up. I was afraid it wouldn't. Still, it means you should prevent ever getting just +1 exp if you care about any stats for which a character has <50% growths (after weapons and bands/KW).

On the plus side, you can likely abuse this to the max for some of the laguz. I mean, sure, Lethe's def and res will suffer, and she'll only get +1 hp each level, but you could totally make her get str, skl, spd, lck every single level if you wanted. Ditto Mordy but replace lck with an extra hp each level. It would take a long time, though, giving 1 exp point at a time. 100 shots just to get 1 level. And any times you get more than 1 exp point during battle she'll end up slowing down her str/skl/spd/lck growths and speeding up her hp/def/res growths. Still, over time you could give her a significantly higher amount of the offensive stats. Same with Shinon, really. He misses out on mag, luck, res, but overkills the rest.

So yeah, apparently growth points are integer variables. The explanation for Sothe is likely just that he only needs 90 growth points rather than 100.

Give Ike a killer weapon and a knight/wyvern band, abuse bexp in the base, get +hp/str/skl/spd/def every single level. Switch to slim weapons and pegasus/priest band for res. Sadly, though, luck suffers.

[VincentASM]

Nice ^^

That also explains the strange behaviour I saw with adding increments of 10 exp. If you're after slightly reduced benefits, but don't want to damage stats with low growths, adding increments of 10 exp might be worth considering as well. This would add 5% to all odd growth rates, functioning like an Afa's Drops/Metis's Tome.

I've got to try adding in increments of 1 exp next time I play. I wonder how lopsided the characters would turn out...

[Tables]

Slightly necrobumping but I had an interesting thought, assuming I understood this right.

Most character's growths are in the range of 25-50%, right (by my calculation, 202/386 growths are)? So if you give 2 exp at a time, all of those growths will increase at a 50% rate, although any growths between 50-70% become 50% growths too (but they're rarer), and 75%+ becomes 100%.

Some characters that really benefit from this are:

Devdan (100% HP and 50% in everything else? All he loses is 10% STR, too)

Jill (50% in everything, means a loss of 10% HP which is easily regained by 15% DEF and 20% RES)

Callil (50% everything again, no downsides)

Boyd (100% HP, 0% MAG, 50% in everything else, he loses 10% HP again, but doubles his DEF and RES growths)

Tanith (50% in everything, almost doubling her defensive growths, but loses 20% SKL and 10% HP)

Gatrie (5% STR and SKL, and 10% DEF, for 25% SPD and LUK, and 20% RES and HP)

Titania (100% HP, 50% everything else, which loses 10% SKL)

Compared to the 1 BEXP strategy, which really punishes most characters - lots of growths fall to 0, including DEF quite often, although 100% SPD and STR is nice.

[VincentASM]

I actually used increments of 2 BEXP for a few characters on my last playthrough. As you already mentioned, it's good for characters with mostly average growths. I got a pretty tanky Mist this way (although since she needs +10% Defence for it to double and can't equip weapons before promotion, you can only use this trick after promotion).

I won't go into specifics, but increments of 4 and 5 BEXP have some nice effects as well (only +10% at most, but it's good if some characters fail to cap stats by a few points).

[Tables]

Yeah, I had a look at the 3 and 4 increments, both were getting the best characters (for it) a total increase of about 50-60%, although I didn't look at exact growths much. Really, it's always going to come down to character for what's best, I suppose.