Turn count thingy

[Randa]

So this is to set the turn count for a brisk paced lunatic mode.

Please contribute what you think is rational for a turn count etc. please be nice. This is not LTC!

For the rules you can use please see http://serenesforest...showtopic=39010

Premonition : 2 not up for debate.

Prologue: please discuss I believe 10 will be updated when I get up in the morning.

Chapter 1:please discuss I believe 8 will be updated when I get up in the morning.

Chapter 2: please discuss I believe 10 will be updated when I get up in the morning.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Randa

[Redwall]

cf. KoT's topic: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=37893

These are what I believe to be the minima (either I or KoT have gotten them). I'm assuming no Renown. Morgan might be necessary as a Rallybot to make some of the later completions reliable. Add whatever percentage or fixed number of turns until you feel it's reasonable.

Prologue: 4 turns at 19% success rate (disp hit), 5 turns at ca. 36% success rate (unfortunately, I've actually done all the math for the 4- and 5-turn clears), 6 turns at > 50% success rate

C1: 4 turns; never did a detailed projection but it's probably above 50%

C2: 6 turns (see KoT's topic linked above) at < 50% success rate, 7 turns with better odds (probably above 50%; I never did the math)

C3: 4 turns with some luck (slightly below 50% since Fred needs some Str from his base), 5 turns with less luck (probably above 50% success rate)

P1: under the current rules, no clue; Lon'qu permits a 7-turn clear but is out of the rules here

C4: 4 turns with some luck (Fred must have some Str)

C5: 5 turns with luck (probably < 50%, see KoT's topic)

C6: 4 turns (see KoT's topic), no clue about success rate since I never figured this one out

C7: 3 turns

C8: no clue, my turncount was terrible and KoT hasn't gotten that far

C9: 4 turns with full recruitment

C10: 2 turns

C11: my best was 5, but I could see 3 or 4 being reasonable

C12: I've seen people getting 2 on Hard by flying into the boat; my best was 5 on Lunatic without flying into the boat, but I might have been able to push that down to 4 if the enemy movements cooperated

C13: 1

C14: 1

C15: probably 3 (I got 4, but was playing poorly)

C16: 1

C17: 1

C18: 1

P17: 2, but without either turtling this level or some children Paralogues, Galeforce will not be available for Ch 20. After 7 turns on this level with the AI abuse trick, I just barely got Galeforce, which is necessary for the fastest clears of some later chapters.

C19: 1

C20: 1, but I needed some luck and a Rally Spectrum from Morgan (15% success rate using displayed hit and displayed crit); additionally, I used the AI abuse trick in P17 to get Galeforce, which is required for a 1-turn clear of this level

C21: I got 3, but maybe 2 would be possible. Without both Pass and Galeforce, 1-turn clear is not possible on a Lunatic playthrough adhering to the present guidelines due to additional enemies not present in HM.

C22: 1

C23: I've gotten 7 with some luck, but this level is messy enough that I can't say with much confidence what the minimum is

C24: I've gotten 4 and would have been in a position to do 3 if I had luck, Nosferatu, or Sol; 2 is possible on Hard, but maybe not on a Lunatic playthrough adhering to the present guidelines

C25: 1

C26: 1

[Legault!]

Note that some of the one-turns are going to be a little misleading, as the Lunatic list won't be assuming hardcore Rescue and Galeforce strategies. We might have to bump those up more.

I've also gotten a six-turn completion on Ch.23 with two Nosferatanks, so that seems like an interesting case where "safe strategies" actually save the player turns.

[Paperblade]

tbh I don't think hardcore Rescue+Galeforce is possible because you won't be strong enough eventually

[Redwall]

It's possible if you have Morgan using Rally Spectrum on Avatar and secondary combat units (who have terrible enemy phases but are useful for guerrilla tactics). But like I said, I had to deal with a fairly low-success 1-turn clear of Ch. 20 (~15%) and wound up having to abuse the AI in P17 since I wanted to avoid children Paralogues for some reason. So although hardcore Rescue/Galeforce is certainly possible, it's definitely a lot sketchier on Lunatic than on Hard.

Had I been doing children Paralogues (I had two others unlocked: Fred/Cordelia and Lon'qu/Panne. Could have unlocked a third by pairing Cordelia with Kellam instead and giving Fred the Sumia support, but I wanted to fill out my support log), the resulting EXP might have been enough, combined with Rally Spectrum, to beef up my units sufficiently to either tank out P17 legitimately or handle later chapters without having to rely on Tiki, who was pretty solid in Ch. 24. Ch. 23 is doable reliably provided you're willing to burn lots of Rescue staves on Morgan, who must move into enemy range to Rally up Avatar, and on secondary combat units, who take out offensive threats and get Rescued back.

[Randa]

cf. KoT's topic: http://serenesforest...showtopic=37893

These are what I believe to be the minima (either I or KoT have gotten them). I'm assuming no Renown. Morgan might be necessary as a Rallybot to make some of the later completions reliable. Add whatever percentage or fixed number of turns until you feel it's reasonable.

Prologue: 4 turns at 19% success rate (disp hit), 5 turns at ca. 36% success rate (unfortunately, I've actually done all the math for the 4- and 5-turn clears), 6 turns at > 50% success rate

C1: 4 turns; never did a detailed projection but it's probably above 50%

C2: 6 turns (see KoT's topic linked above) at < 50% success rate, 7 turns with better odds (probably above 50%; I never did the math)

C3: 4 turns with some luck (slightly below 50% since Fred needs some Str from his base), 5 turns with less luck (probably above 50% success rate)

P1: under the current rules, no clue; Lon'qu permits a 7-turn clear but is out of the rules here

C4: 4 turns with some luck (Fred must have some Str)

C5: 5 turns with luck (probably < 50%, see KoT's topic)

C6: 4 turns (see KoT's topic), no clue about success rate since I never figured this one out

C7: 3 turns

C8: no clue, my turncount was terrible and KoT hasn't gotten that far

C9: 4 turns with full recruitment

C10: 2 turns

C11: my best was 5, but I could see 3 or 4 being reasonable

C12: I've seen people getting 2 on Hard by flying into the boat; my best was 5 on Lunatic without flying into the boat, but I might have been able to push that down to 4 if the enemy movements cooperated

C13: 1

C14: 1

C15: probably 3 (I got 4, but was playing poorly)

C16: 1

C17: 1

C18: 1

P17: 2, but without either turtling this level or some children Paralogues, Galeforce will not be available for Ch 20. After 7 turns on this level with the AI abuse trick, I just barely got Galeforce, which is necessary for the fastest clears of some later chapters.

C19: 1

C20: 1, but I needed some luck and a Rally Spectrum from Morgan (15% success rate using displayed hit and displayed crit); additionally, I used the AI abuse trick in P17 to get Galeforce, which is required for a 1-turn clear of this level

C21: I got 3, but maybe 2 would be possible. Without both Pass and Galeforce, 1-turn clear is not possible on a Lunatic playthrough adhering to the present guidelines due to additional enemies not present in HM.

C22: 1

C23: I've gotten 7 with some luck, but this level is messy enough that I can't say with much confidence what the minimum is

C24: I've gotten 4 and would have been in a position to do 3 if I had luck, Nosferatu, or Sol; 2 is possible on Hard, but maybe not on a Lunatic playthrough adhering to the present guidelines

C25: 1

C26: 1

If its okay I'm gonna alter these so there is a little bit of wiggle room for those who move slowly.

I'll work on this when I get home a 4:30 PM EST

[Randa]

So time to work on this. Final turn count for each level is bolded.

Prologue: 4 turns at 19% success rate (disp hit), 5 turns at ca. 36% success rate (unfortunately, I've actually done all the math for the 4- and 5-turn clears), 6 turns at > 50% success rate. Not a huge fan about the exact numbers gonna put at 8.

C1: 4 turns; never did a detailed projection but it's probably above 50% Not to hard but I think 6 is the optimal number.

C2: 6 turns (see KoT's topic linked above) at < 50% success rate, 7 turns with better odds (probably above 50%; I never did the math) I really would prefer the numbers to be larger 10

C3: 4 turns with some luck (slightly below 50% since Fred needs some Str from his base), 5 turns with less luck (probably above 50% success rate). You have to rush to get it though so I'm gonna give it 6

P1: under the current rules, no clue; Lon'qu permits a 7-turn clear but is out of the rules here. I'm questioning this so I'm gonna ask for more opinions about it and come back at this time it will be a tentative 10

C4: 4 turns with some luck (Fred must have some Str) I am able to do this in three with high probability. But I'll be nice 5

C5: 5 turns with luck (probably < 50%, see KoT's topic). Looking for highest possible percentage in reasonable time so 8

C6: 4 turns (see KoT's topic), no clue about success rate since I never figured this one out. I feel like 6 would be a bit easier to pull off.

C7: 3 turns this is very reasonable to me but I still have to give it a 5

C8: no clue, my turncount was terrible and KoT hasn't gotten that far. Very tentative 8

C9: 4 turns with full recruitment. Seems very difficult to get so 7

C10: 2 turns. This seems incredibly low so I'm gonna say 6

C11: my best was 5, but I could see 3 or 4 being reasonable

C12: I've seen people getting 2 on Hard by flying into the boat; my best was 5 on Lunatic without flying into the boat, but I might have been able to push that down to 4 if the enemy movements cooperated. I think 6

C13: 1. I'm gonna say 3

C14: 1. To get all the treasure I believe you need 3 turns unless you have two or three thieves, which is unlikely, to get all the treasure.

C15: probably 3 (I got 4, but was playing poorly). I think you need 6 to recruit Say'ri and visit all houses.

C16: 1. 3 seems reasonable

C17: 1. If this is the castle level then I think a 8 would be more rational

C18: 1. 4 seems sensible

P17: 2, but without either turtling this level or some children Paralogues, Galeforce will not be available for Ch 20. After 7 turns on this level with the AI abuse trick, I just barely got Galeforce, which is necessary for the fastest clears of some later chapters. I'm gonna go 8 here

C19: 1. Reasonable but I think 3 makes more sense because it seems pretty hard to get gale force at this point

C20: 1, but I needed some luck and a Rally Spectrum from Morgan (15% success rate using displayed hit and displayed crit); additionally, I used the AI abuse trick in P17 to get Galeforce, which is required for a 1-turn clear of this level. 7 is reasonable to get all the treasure.

C21: I got 3, but maybe 2 would be possible. Without both Pass and Galeforce, 1-turn clear is not possible on a Lunatic playthrough adhering to the present guidelines due to additional enemies not present in HM. Hard to do so low so let's stick with a 6 for completeing everything.

C22: 1. 4 to get all the legendaries.

C23: I've gotten 7 with some luck, but this level is messy enough that I can't say with much confidence what the minimum is. I think 8 works well

C24: I've gotten 4 and would have been in a position to do 3 if I had luck, Nosferatu, or Sol; 2 is possible on Hard, but maybe not on a Lunatic playthrough adhering to the present guidelines. I think 7 is good enough.

C25: 1. Way to low for everybody to get especially without a flier. 4

C26: 1 I agree.

Total turn count :161

Edited March 28, 2013 by Randa