Anacybele Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 (edited) Well sorry for not knowing that. Just because RD is my favorite game doesn't mean I know every single little detail about it. EDIT: I think that power up only existed in the Twilight Realm. Edited June 1, 2014 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 (edited) Just because RD is my favorite game doesn't mean I know every single little detail about it. The fact that every boss starting from Dheg has skill nullifying skills is not a "little detail". Aether pretty much only gets used for generic mooks and the bosses before the Tower of Guidance. He cannot use skills on them, and he cannot crit them. Only Triangle Attacks can do that. Edited June 1, 2014 by shadowofchaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyea Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Lorewise, Medeus could only be beaten by either Falchion, or Naga, herself [spoiler='FE11/12]and by extension, Nagi inb4 Wrys Gharnef was invincible to everything, and I repeat, EVERYTHING EXCEPT Starlight magic Idoun.... okay, that, I made an assumption there. And I should note that the Master Sword did get a power up in TP :P Wouldn't Nihil possibly cancel this out. I also think Ragnell is comparable to the Falchion. Nothing could hurt the Black Knight except Ragnell and nothing should hurt Medeus except the Falchion. Maybe they're both strong enough blades to hurt such powerful entities. Stat wise Ragnell is more powerful, or at least as powerful in Awakening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Motendra Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 (edited) True, but there are instances where it came out against Ganondorf Wouldn't Nihil possibly cancel this out. I also think Ragnell is comparable to the Falchion. Nothing could hurt the Black Knight except Ragnell and nothing should hurt Medeus except the Falchion. Maybe they're both strong enough blades to hurt such powerful entities. Stat wise Ragnell is more powerful, or at least as powerful in Awakening. No it wouldn't, cause its not a skill. And I should note that Falchion is a dragon slayer. Ragnell is not. Maybe in strength, the two are up to par, but when variables come into play, they're differences are known Edited June 1, 2014 by The Chosen One Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 (edited) Wouldn't Nihil possibly cancel this out. I also think Ragnell is comparable to the Falchion. Nothing could hurt the Black Knight except Ragnell and nothing should hurt Medeus except the Falchion. Maybe they're both strong enough blades to hurt such powerful entities. Stat wise Ragnell is more powerful, or at least as powerful in Awakening. The lore is "Goddess Blessing" that prevents the BK from getting hurt. However, that wore out by the time RD came along. The way I'm thinking is that blessing from one goddess can counter the other, such as in RD's lore. So in the same way, Naga vs. Medeus/Grima. So Ragnell wouldn't work since it's not a dragon slayer. I'm just assuming that Garnef's invincibility is of a different kind. Edited June 1, 2014 by shadowofchaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyea Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 True, but there are instances where it came out against Ganondorf No it wouldn't, cause its not a skill. And I should note that Falchion is a dragon slayer. Ragnell is not. Maybe in strength, the two are up to par, but when variables come into play, they're differences are known That may be just because they did not have skills yet in that game. It's tough to compare them when one system uses skills and the other does not. The lore is "Goddess Blessing" that prevents the BK from getting hurt. However, that wore out by the time RD came along. The way I'm thinking is that blessing from one goddess can counter the other, such as in RD's lore. So in the same way, Naga vs. Medeus/Grima. So Ragnell wouldn't work since it's not a dragon slayer. I'm just assuming that Garnef's invincibility is of a different kind. Wouldn't that mean that the goddess blessed Ragnell would work as a counter. Naga vs Medeus/Grima works... so: Ashera and Yune blessing vs Medues/Grima However, I suppose all in all Ragnell is not a dragon slayer. It is a goddess slayer. And with the power of two goddesses in it. That might be enough raw goddess power to overwhelm the protections that these other power-houses have. It's just hard to compare because it's different times, worlds, games, and lore. I just feel that it would be up to the task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWill Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Some of you are grossly overestimating Ike. Sure, he beat Dheginsea, but did he do it alone? Also I don't know how one can make the argument Ike would beat Link, but not Ganondorf, of whom Link has vanquished many times. Regardless of Ganondorf being physically stronger than Link and even holding magical powers Link can't compare to, Link still triumphed over him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuffPuff Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Oh, I'm talking about SSBB! But I use others beside her (and the ones in my signature). I can use anyone (not saying I'm good with them...) but I've used Mario, Fox, Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and a few others. I don't necessarily like the lot of them, but I use them from time to time. In PoR / RD does Ike use Aether like in Brawl / SSB4 (if he still uses it)? Sorry for such a dumb question, I never played it. No. He only heals along with doing a Luna attack. The animation looks nothing like it only because his Aether actually got upgraded after FE10. SSBB took place with him after FE10. He'd trample anything in the Fire Emblem universe period. Storywise, he's actually the mightiest, strongest hero that ever lived. Old Hubba says so in Awakening. Yeah, but not passing through forbidden trails like Marth has upon Gotoh's tutalege that his ancestor, Anri has. God fucking dammit. When are we getting an FE game that stars Anri's tale? We need to know his friends and family. I seriously don't think Ike could take on any of the Holy Blood Magic users from FE4. Those dudes have monstrous stats, and Ike has shit resistance. He'd get wasted by Ishtar, Julius, and Saias without proper support. By the way... Saias can raise 50% to hit and avoid and beat the stinking crap out of Ike without Aether's activation. Lorewise, Medeus could only be beaten by either Falchion, or Naga, herself [spoiler='FE11/12]and by extension, Nagi inb4 Wrys Gharnef was invincible to everything, and I repeat, EVERYTHING EXCEPT Starlight magic Idoun.... okay, that, I made an assumption there. And I should note that the Master Sword did get a power up in TP :P Also Divine weapons Mercurius, Devil Axe, Devil Sword, Gravius, Aura and Partia. Gharnef will either have to be ignored, ...or having Starlight in his chapters. Wouldn't Nihil possibly cancel this out. I also think Ragnell is comparable to the Falchion. Nothing could hurt the Black Knight except Ragnell and nothing should hurt Medeus except the Falchion. Maybe they're both strong enough blades to hurt such powerful entities. Stat wise Ragnell is more powerful, or at least as powerful in Awakening. As SOC already said... BK could be harmed in the sequel as he lost Yune's magical blessings. -.- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Maybe we're overestimating Ike a bit, but I think Link is being overestimated too. Sure, he has a big arsenal of equipment to choose from, but he can only use one weapon at a time. If he wants to use his bow, he has to drop his sword for a minute. It's not like he can use everything at once. As for Ganondorf... I definitely think Ike would beat him. Link could be capable of defeating Ike depending on which Link he is, but Ganondorf, I think would have a much harder time. If Link can knock back magic attacks with his sword, so can Ike. And Ike is weak to magic, that much is true. But he'd have to be hit first, and he's not gonna just stand there and let that happen (much like you guys said Samus wouldn't just stand there and get hit). Ike may not be able to KILL Ganondorf (since only stuff like the Light Arrows can do that), but he'd sure damn hurt him to the point where he's too weak to fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Motendra Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Also Divine weapons Mercurius, Devil Axe, Devil Sword, Gravius, Aura and Partia. Nope, not even the three regalia could. In game stat wise, yeah, they could prolly do damage, but said person would be dead before they'd be any help. And those devil weapons are just asking for suicide Some of you are grossly overestimating Ike. Sure, he beat Dheginsea, but did he do it alone? Also I don't know how one can make the argument Ike would beat Link, but not Ganondorf, of whom Link has vanquished many times. Regardless of Ganondorf being physically stronger than Link and even holding magical powers Link can't compare to, Link still triumphed over him. Link has that trifoce though, which Ike doesn't. That, and the Master Sword, which is said to be the bane of all evil. Also, no one ever said Ike would just sit there and take a hit. No one's dumb enough to actually do that. Just saying, with Ganon's strength AND magic together, Ike's at a disadvantage. Not to meantion he has nothing to use for defense, like Link does with his shield. There's a difference between possible and probable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Except like I said, if Link can knock back Ganondorf's magic attacks with a simple swing of his sword, so can Ike. Ganondorf's magic can't be an advantage if Ike can easily prevent it from hitting him. And I'd say Ike's strength is around the same as Ganny's, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Motendra Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Not everything that Ganon utilizes can be knocked back.That is my point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kon Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 I would like to point out that Link could only ever bounce back Gannondorf's magic when he had the Master Sword, the blade of evil's bane That was literally the only way to beat him as well aside from the Silver (not Light) Arrows, which IIRC could only end him in the original game. The Light Arrows do nothing other than stun him. Ragnell is not a special blade in and of itself. It's not effective against anything at all, not even cavalry or dragons. Literally the only thing it is special for is the Yune and Ashera's blessings, which then only serve to be effective against others blessed by one or the other. Even then it only has the power to hurt them, and is not boosted in power even by a couple of points. Gannondorf has the power of the Triforce, and is entirely immune to any attack that isn't made by a weapon specifically designed for killing him. He can only be affected by weapons that were blessed by the four Goddesses and then by those wielding another piece of the Triforce (in most cases, IIRC). Ike's not even going to be able to hurt him, regardless of how powerful he is.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWill Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Link has that trifoce though, which Ike doesn't. That, and the Master Sword, which is said to be the bane of all evil. Also, no one ever said Ike would just sit there and take a hit. No one's dumb enough to actually do that. Just saying, with Ganon's strength AND magic together, Ike's at a disadvantage. Not to meantion he has nothing to use for defense, like Link does with his shield. There's a difference between possible and probable I don't know what you're trying to say, I honestly don't think we should account for Link using Zelda/Ganon's respective powers of the Tri-Force because of how such an unfair slaughter it'd be against Ike (I have yet to play Skyward Sword, so I can't say it in a 'canon' sense, but rather a 'fair' sense). Regardless, I think Link still outclasses Ike in a lot of different areas even with only the Triforce of Courage and his weapon arsenal across each game. Also, why are you arguing against me when I am clearly saying Link would beat Ike? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Motendra Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 I don't know what you're trying to say, I honestly don't think we should account for Link using Zelda/Ganon's respective powers of the Tri-Force because of how such an unfair slaughter it'd be against Ike (I have yet to play Skyward Sword, so I can't say it in a 'canon' sense, but rather a 'fair' sense). Regardless, I think Link still outclasses Ike in a lot of different areas even with only the Triforce of Courage and his weapon arsenal across each game. Also, why are you arguing against me when I am clearly saying Link would beat Ike? my fault on that one. I was really trying to add on to your point. The last paragraph was supposed to be towards ana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 I would like to point out that Link could only ever bounce back Gannondorf's magic when he had the Master Sword, the blade of evil's bane That was literally the only way to beat him as well aside from the Silver (not Light) Arrows, which IIRC could only end him in the original game. The Light Arrows do nothing other than stun him. Ragnell is not a special blade in and of itself. It's not effective against anything at all, not even cavalry or dragons. Literally the only thing it is special for is the Yune and Ashera's blessings, which then only serve to be effective against others blessed by one or the other. Even then it only has the power to hurt them, and is not boosted in power even by a couple of points. Gannondorf has the power of the Triforce, and is entirely immune to any attack that isn't made by a weapon specifically designed for killing him. He can only be affected by weapons that were blessed by the four Goddesses and then by those wielding another piece of the Triforce (in most cases, IIRC). Ike's not even going to be able to hurt him, regardless of how powerful he is.. Um. the Triforce doesn't make one immune to attack. Link is very capable of taking damage and he has the Triforce of Courage. Same with Zelda, who has the Triforce of Wisdom. And even in his Ganon form, Ganondorf can take damage, even be WEAKENED, by weapons that aren't the Master Sword. Hell, he HAS to be because he knocks the damn sword out of Link's hand. I bounced back all of Ganondorf's magic. In OoT, anyway. He doesn't use so much magic in other games (he became more of a sword guy later). Also, technically, the Master Sword is on the same level as Ragnell. Both have the blessing of a goddess to enable them to injure certain individuals. Other than that, they're regular swords. I think Ragnell would be able to harm Ganondorf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 TWW!Link can easily take out Ike. Ragnell beams? Pfft. BOTTLE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Devil Trigger Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 The only way Ike could beat Ganon is if he had a fishing rod with him Link would put Ike on the ground easily Btw, I think this discussion might be derailing the topic a bit, maybe making a new thread for anyone wanting to continue this would be better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Gabriel Knight Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 (edited) Also, technically, the Master Sword is on the same level as Ragnell. Both have the blessing of a goddess to enable them to injure certain individuals. Other than that, they're regular swords. I think Ragnell would be able to harm Ganondorf. The Master Sword is blessed with light, advantage over darkness and shadow. Ragnell is only blessed with Yune's and Ashera's power, which aren't evil or good. They are just power. The established magical/supernatural systems wouldn't work on each other. Edited June 1, 2014 by GabrielKnight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jave Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Except like I said, if Link can knock back Ganondorf's magic attacks with a simple swing of his sword, so can Ike. Ganondorf's magic can't be an advantage if Ike can easily prevent it from hitting him. Except you can't just assume Ike can reflect magic simply because Link can do it. We use bouncing magic in favor of Link because he cannonically does it in his games. Ike doesn't, and there's no evidence that Ragnell can reflect magic. It's like saying, "If Ike can do a devastating attack that nullifies defense and absorbs enemy HP, then so can Link" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 There's no evidence that Ike wouldn't be able to knock back that magic either. The kind of magic he faces in his games is different. Also, Ragnell's shockwaves are not magic, so there's no evidence to suggest that Link's bottles or whatnot would work against them. The shockwaves are very fast, sharp waves of air. They'd cut right through a fishing rod or bottle or whatever. Think of it like Sonic Boom or Razor Wind from Pokemon. Those moves destroy glass in an instant. And the fishing rod is just a wooden stick. Also, who blessed the Master Sword with its light? A goddess named Hylia. Who blessed Ragnell? A goddess named Ashera. No difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Btw, I think this discussion might be derailing the topic a bit, maybe making a new thread for anyone wanting to continue this would be better? Mini-modding aside, you are right about this derailing. Though I'd say a LOT not a bit. If you want to discuss cross-world match-ups do it in another thread. And if it's not in the context of an SSB game, do it outside of this board, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Alright, you're right, this isn't exactly the thread topic. Debating about crossover matchups ends here then. xP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Gabriel Knight Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 (edited) Also, who blessed the Master Sword with its light? A goddess named Hylia. Who blessed Ragnell? A goddess named Ashera. No difference. The difference is the Master Sword is a sword of light. It was made specifically for destroying darkness and evil. Ashera's and Yune's powers are not derived from light or darkness. They're not even elements. Their power is just power. I just explained the difference and you completely ignored it. Edited June 1, 2014 by GabrielKnight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Did you read a word Narga and I said? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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