Cat1803

Please tell me Avatar leveled up more than once. Also watch for Gamble crits on Garrick.

Well, I'm an idiot. I was stalling chapter 5 because I hate it and messing around in another file and accidentally saved over my no-DLC L+ file. And I didn't have it backed up. At all. I've done this before. I really need to start backing up my saves. None I can see on video. Chapter 2 is the same whether you grind or not (and is now far more manageable thanks to Interceptor's strat). As for nogrind L+ in general... EXP distribution is key. Bows are valuable for once but not entirely required. The general idea is training up a small but strong army, with early chapters focusing on stuffing Avatar with kills thanks to Veteran (the water trick works well for this, as do forts and other terrain advantages that can help keep you alive while you're squishy). SoC has some random Lunatic+ stuff on his YouTube channel, but his LP is on Normal. There's another Lunatic+ LP floating around YouTube (LucarioMaster I think?) but his is full-grind and incomplete as of yet. Makes me wish I had enough money for a capture card. I'm not an expert by any standard, but I'd at least like to record a visual for getting through the early chapters with a Def flaw.

Libra's good for units that pretty much have what they need - I'm thinking Brady. For post game, he already has Galeforce and Luna. All he needs is a dad who doesn't hurt his magic. Other dads like Ricken are usually needed elsewhere because Luna. I'd argue Kellam is a worse father. I don't like the negative Spd modifier, and on a child where it wouldn't matter (like Yarne due to being in the back), Frederick provides better Str/Skl. Kellam has Tomefaire over Frederick, but I can't imagine a situation where either father would be used and Tomefaire would make a lick of difference. I never use Kellam as a father anymore for the above reasons.

Me before Lunatic: "Wow, this seems like a broken mechanic!" Me after Lunatic: "I love you pair up don't ever leave me I'm so sorry I said you were broken..." That being said, I wish the Artificial Intelligence was... Intelligent. Huge glaring example: the riders in Tiki's paralogue - in Lunatic+ when they have pass. It screws their AI so hard that even if they can attack your front units, they just show up by them and go "hi there". Sure, the AI goes after your cleric if you leave her open, but that's not exactly the pinnacle of smart enemy AI. It's not intelligent for a Pegasus Knight to attack an Archer with a Javelin from two spaces away. I'm fine with pair up remaining if the higher difficulties are hard enough to balance it out and if the AI stops its "ZOMG unit in range I do no damage and they OHKO me but IMMA try anyway!" rampage.

I suppose I should correct myself and say Lon'qu makes the better front unit while Gaius makes the better support. Gaius also has the advantage of being able to hide behind Chrom (I like pairing people that can support, okay?) on a chapter where a locktouch user is needed. I'm sure someone can form a better argument than I can about Donnel and inheritance (low caps for postgame, low bases for ingame can overshadow aptitude). His value for me is a parent for Kjelle - all she needs is Galeforce and he gives it to her. I wouldn't subject any other child to inheriting his low caps, but Kjelle has high enough Skl/Spd on her own that she can manage just fine. Brady can be a powerhouse (I personally like using him over many of the other children as well), but showing up 2/3 through the game (in the average playthrough) after grinding Maribelle to get Galeforce... with D Staves. He didn't even have the decency to come with C Rank like the other kids (I'm not counting shapeshifter children, that's another argument). This wouldn't be a problem for most kids, but he can't physic spam his way to level 20 for promotion without an Arms Scroll. Or you could second seal him to Mage with E Tomes I guess - it's a better option than, say, Yarne has. He's not worth the trouble in the average playthrough - you feed/grind Maribelle for however many levels for GF (because that's what most people care about, let's be honest)... and he can't even activate it without an insta-class change. (Assuming you don't grind Maribelle for Galeforce, you already have enough healers in your party especially once you start promoting mages, and Brady doesn't stand out as a healer alone IMO) Postgame? Brady is a powerhouse. He has great Mag and inherent Luna, as well as 2 more Skl than Owain (before fathers). I'd say he's one of the best magic-oriented frontliners, and he's my favorite magic Galeboy (other than Ricken!Inigo). He just doesn't shine ingame due to being a late-arrival priest. I... wouldn't give him nearly as hard of a time ingame if he showed up as a Mage or with C Staves. And yes I realize I'm nitpicking.

Lon'qu makes the better dodgetank IMO. And Anna makes the better lockpicker despite lack of supports because staff utility. Anyway, agreed on Gaius. I've *NEVER* gotten his level-up quote for getting more than 3 stats. By the way, with all the Donnel talk, I should mention I was grinding in a hard mode file (OMG grinding in HM kill me now) and he only got HP and Luck... twice in a row. "Y'all act like I'm s'posed to get good level-ups or somethin'!" At least, that's what I imagined him saying to keep myself from screaming.

Unless I'm doing a challenge run, I grind. A lot. I'm one of those weird people that enjoys grinding. I've had everyone maxed out before Grima, I've had only Chrom and Avatar with anything resembling levels. It depends on the run, or how patient I am. If the next FE came out tomorrow and grinding wasn't an option, I'd just be like "challenge accepted". I'd find a way. I like grinding, but I won't be like "ugh not playing" if it's not an option. I find I actually grind the least in lunatic, since I don't have the patience to deal with that bogus internal level cap of 50. It really depends on the difficulty and my patience level. Of course, I do ban things in challenge runs (my current Luna+ run is no Outrealm Gate), grinding being among them. And I don't judge based on whether people grind or not. I don't care if everyone in your army is maxed out with Limit Breaker and all their skills before chapter 5. Whatever floats your boat. ^Reminds me of Casual mode. I played Awakening Lunatic Casual before I ever even tried Classic. Saving anywhere is really nice when first trying out a difficulty (and for me, starting the series). I'm even getting a used copy of Shadow Dragon soon, now that I'm more familiar with the series. The permadeath frightened me before... But I was such a dimwit that I didn't know you could soft reset. Needless to say I've learned since then.

Yeah, I used brave weapons when I wasn't using Longbows, and my characters are all maxed out (and married). I think I can even do a no-brave run with the file I used. I've got plenty of Armsthrift distribution (legendary weapons) and several pairs that hit 75 Speed.

Well... stomped Apotheosis SR. It was a little disappointing (I took damage twice, one of them being while baiting the Mire DFs). I can see how the Secret Path would be a pain if I didn't have experience with Lunatic+ skills, however. Anyway, I'm thinking of doing a no-Agg run. Aggressor was really OP on my hard supports (Chrom, Laurent, Gerome, Yarne, MaMU) and helpful on my male main combatants (Inigo, Owain, Brady). I'm not experienced with challenge runs, so it might be a good place to start. Thoughts?

I'm not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing that I've already made it through Chapter 4. Basic summary: Made it to level 8 (and 14 Spd) in Prologue, which made Chapter 1 a breeze despite the Defense flaw. Chapter 2 was basically all Interceptor's strategy (you're a freaking genius, by the way), but I took Sully with me instead of Vaike (Miriel was on Lissa for extra healing Mag) since I needed +1 Speed to double the Soldier across the river. I reset 5,000 times in Chapter 3 because I still suck at that chapter. Most of Chapter 4 went to FeMU, and she's now at Level 16.50. I managed to get Miriel to level 4 in Chapter 3. I wish I could've gotten her higher, but I couldn't hold a choke with FreddyxKellam forever due to Luna+ and Avatar had to step in. I'll focus on training her in Paralogue 1 and Chapter 5 since she barely contributed in Chapter 4 (so much Aegis+). With that said, I'm considering allowing fighting Bonus Box teams via the "let Florina's team smack Avatar until their weapons break and let Chrom smack them for 1 exp with his infinite Iron Sword" method. I obviously won't do this for other units, but I'd like to focus training in chapters and paralogues on units like Avatar (gimme Galeforce) and Miriel and this seems like a decent (if painful) way for Chrom to sort of keep up. I've done it before and it sucks, but I wouldn't consider this method breaking the game wide open like DLC. Anyway, I've got max Renown and a lot of gold, so I stocked up on Str/Def tonics (I didn't stock up enough in my last run, and paid for it when a Risen popped up after Chapter 5 and didn't go away until I was done with Chapter 8). I also gave Miriel a Seraph Robe and Dracoshield. An Anna Shop spawned with a Speedwing, so I got that. I'm considering giving that to Miriel too, since she's underleveled. I'm...not noticing difficulties with the Def flaw so far, likely due to my overleveled Avatar. Maybe I'm just used to my MU having crap defense after taking it as a flaw so often. Next order of business: Paralogue 1. I'll train Donnel a tiny bit (Damn you, inner completionist!) and focus the rest on Miriel and MU. I might fight Florina once since Chrom is very close to level 4.

Thanks for the responses! Goodness I love this place. @eclipse: Gregor is near the top of the list because Armsthrift, and I've tried to use Vaike in the past but I've gotten Speed-screwed with him. I'm willing to try out Lon'qu/Gaius though, and Miriel's almost guaranteed to be a part of my run now the harder I look. Tharja and Henry don't have staff utility, and have issues (Skl and Spd, respectively) that I'm more willing to put up with in vanilla Lunatic or a grind run, but not something like this, if I'm being perfectly honest. @Interceptor: Considering I almost always go +Spd/-Def, I'm willing to work with units with awful durability if they have plenty of assets to compensate for it, and Miriel is definitely one of them. I'll make sure to train her in chapter 3. I'm thinking her class path would be a Sage promotion followed by class change to Valkyrie, then I'd go from there. This may change based on my team's needs, though. Anyway, GregorxMiriel has always sounded super tempting, but I've never really given it a chance as I've always favored Lon'qu!Laurent or Henry/Libra/Ricken!Laurent. However, Armsthrift on Dark Mage Laurent is just too good to pass up in this run. I've played the prologue enough to fairly reliably get my Avatar to level 8, so I've got a goal I'm willing to reset for: 14 Speed. With 14 Speed + 1 from Fred, I can double all the enemies in Chapter 1 (including the Archer), which makes the stage so much easier to deal with, especially since I'm less likely to get tinked with a Def flaw (though I did have a run where I wound up with 10 Def and got a Def level in Chapter 1, and it was hilarious getting tinked on a fort with a Def flaw). I'm a bit more picky than most when it comes to enemy skills earlygame, but I tend to let up when Avatar and a few other units get the ball rolling. ...Since I tend to handwrite playlogs (down to the level-ups!) anyway, would here be a good place to post them, or should I make a separate thread? I'm really curious to see how this no-DLC run will go, especially since it's been months since I've done FeMUxChrom.

^Funny enough, that was how I got Donnel to finish off a level (he had 81 experience from archer poking) last time. Sully was the transport too. Lol @ my still-existing notes from my last Luna+ run, full of things that were stupid (like a few of my Ch. 3 fails) and things that were stupidly brilliant. I consider children bonus units if I can get some competent first-gens going. As for kids, I'm not getting any with PITA paralogues (sorry, Inigo). For first-gen units, I'm mostly looking for bow access, even if it's not immediate. Magic users are also gravy for (a) staff access or (b) mire bombing, whichever the character has access to. Heck, this is why I'm seriously considering Miriel despite her low defense - she can be either a healer or a mire user based on my team's needs. So, to answer your question: the top priority would be first generation units that can hold their own or have a nice niche. If I can get a child unit with a decent paralogue (by decent I mean not miserable but exploitable for exp) out of it, than that's a bonus round that may make me favor a first-gen character over another first-gen in a situation where they'd otherwise be equal.

After reading some responses and doing a lot of consideration, I'm going to go FeMUxChrom. What really sold it for me was Morgan just automatically coming with Veteran without needing to inherit it from FeMU or reclass to Tactician for it. With that in mind, Galeforce on FeMU is very much a goal. I'm thinking Tactician -> Mercenary -> Bow Knight -> Dark Flier -> Sniper. Bowbreaker on Dark Flier FeMU will be helpful for obvious reasons: avoiding non-Hawkeye bow users. Chrom will be her pairup bot when we don't have Squishy-Easily-OHKO'd-New-Recruit episodes, and that of other characters otherwise (squishy new recruit/locktouch user will hide behind FeMU nine times out of ten). That being said... I could use some recommendations on other units to use. I've recruited Donnel in Loony+ before (usually by letting a couple non-Luna enemies break their weapons on my MU then letting Donny smack them around until they die), but I don't think he'd see much use here with his bad bases. I tried to use him in a Lunatic run once, but he got speed-screwed and I've had a bad taste in my mouth about using him above Hard since. He could pass Apitude and Armsthrift access to someone, but bad bases due to his non-trained stats would make amazing growths not worth the trouble. I don't know how to train him outside of "let someone break their weapons", but if I could get him rolling, that could be swell. Miriel could honestly see quite a bit of use. She's easy to train in Chapter 3 and can be a healer (Troubadour/Valkyrie/Sage) or a Dark Mage/Sorc if I need her to Mire things. Also, Laurent's recruitment chapter is not bad at all, so I'd get an additional unit (and some extra experience!) out of it, too! I don't plan on running a full team, but Chrom/FeMU/Lucina/Morgan quad would likely make Protect-the-New-Unit/I-Need-A-Locktouch-User situations hairy. Suggestions?

Virion. Even in Lunatic+ where bow users are gods thanks to avoiding counter (IMO)... 5 Speed. And he never levels in Defense or Speed for me, which is more than a problem in Loony+. Outside of Lunatic+, where this isn't an issue, the problem is more with his class (and Wyvern and Mage aren't great reclasses for Virion IMO, plus you'd have to get him to level 10). Next comes Ricken. Again, Speed. At least he knows what HP and Defense are, though. He can be a good father for many children, too, so that helps his case. Virion can too, but Virion is inferior to Ricken in most cases, and that's... sad. For the average playthrough, Brady is an insult. He either needs to be promoted or second sealed immediately. Not a problem if you're grinding, not worth the trouble if you aren't. Not nominated for worst as wholeheartedly as Virion, since you may not even use Maribelle or get her married (not using her is understandable because Lissa). At least he comes at level 10. He doesn't even come with C Staves for physic spam though. Why did they decide an exclusive staff-user at the point in time at which you can recruit him was a good idea? Donnel's only use for me is getting Galeforce on Kjelle for postgame. Aptitude is inferior to Veteran. I get him to level 2 for completionism's sake and feed the rest of his paralogue to Avatar/Chrom/anyone else. His bases are low and Aptitude doesn't even shine that well until he's out of Villager, by which point the average playthrough has seen him fed way too much experience. ...Not too many characters I'd say are bad units, honestly. Plenty of characters have flaws related to join time, weapon ranks, bad bases/growths, etc. The ones I listed just game to mind the quickest.

So, I finally beat Lunatic+ for the first time, though I used DLC (a lot) because I wanted to see how much I could legally break the hardest difficulty. Needless to say, I wound up repeating Gregor's "where is challenge?" quote a few dozen times (just not in the "protect the squishy new recruit we threw at you!" chapters). After I finish a few things with that file and my FeMU support grind file, I'm going to try it with no DLC. Everything else is fine, but I'm not "lol EXPonential Growth"-ing it this time. The plan for early game is the usual for me at this point: feed a +Spd Robin until he/she's ridiculous. I've looked at some guides, but I could use some general advice, and I'm going to spit out some "hey this sounds good in theory" stuff and hopefully get some feedback. - I don't know if I'm going FeMU or MaMU. If I go FeMU, the partner will be Chrom (are there any other good partners for FeMU in Lunatic+?). If I go MaMU, the partner will be Cordelia (Family of Armsthrift? All the yes.) - Class path for either MU will be the same: Tactician -> Mercenary -> Bow Knight -> Sniper. After that, I'll either second seal back to Sniper for stats, or dabble in other classes. I plan on ending everyone in a bow-using class, mostly because of the "lol Counter" mooks. I'll aim for Galeforce if inheritance is direct (or I can get it via promotion, like in the case of Cynthia and Cordelia!Morgan), but it won't be a priority. - Chrom's class path will be purely dependent on his partner's needs. If he falls off for me in nogrind Lunatic, there's no way he's keeping up in Lunatic+. Does Sumia/FeMU need +Spd? Cool, he's a Bow Knight/Great Lord now. Does she need +Def? Cool, he's an Archer/Sniper. He'll mostly be getting exp from Dual Strikes (thanks DS+). I'd rather put resources into army members that DON'T fall off by the end of Valm. - I have no idea on Sumia's classpath (should I use MaMU) after promoting to Dark Flier. During my last one, I'd have her kill someone, activate galeforce, and switch to Bow Knight Chrom so he could lolBraveBow enemy phase, but he won't be able to take an enemy phase if I'm not putting resources into him. So, I guess the questions are: How's my strategery look so far? Would you recommend FeMU or MaMU? What should I do with Chrom, if I actually use him? What should I do with Sumia, if I go SumiaxChrom? Are there any good non-Chrom husbands for FeMU in lunatic+? Any other general tips? Thanks in advance, and sorry if these questions have already been answered. I just don't have the patience to read through 150+ pages of thread...

Thanks for the advice. I've only done Normal Apo so far, but I'm planning on some challenge runs after I get a feel for Secret, and no-brave is up there. Brave weapons kinda break...everything.

I was more concerned about DS rates than hit thresholds, but I'll definitely keep that in mind. I'll consider plopping Henry on Gerome for Zerker/Axefaire and Anathema since I never seem to know what to do for Gerome anyway.

Thanks! Wanted to make sure I didn't derp and miss anything looking at the pairup bonuses. I'll look at my pairings and see what works best for each between Hero, Warrior, and DF.

Not a pairing-specific question, but it will affect some pairing choices: What's a good alternative for Berserker? (I've seen them praised as good support units, but I don't like the low Skl cap) Looking for an Axe-using class that gives +Spd. Hero jumps out immediately, but I was wondering what anyone else's thoughts were. Thanks in advance.

In that case, +Spd is definitely a strong option. If you're concerned about Morgan's caps enough to suffer through earlygame asset/flaw, -Def is considered very optimal, but it'll make early game even more difficult, and strong early levels will matter much more. Vengeance may be worth considering to take advantage of -Def as well, if there's room in your classpath/skillset for that (as a bonus, its activation rolls after Ignis). As for Morgan, I'd say +Spd for almost any 2nd gen mother, and +Mag for Aversa as the mother. Perhaps another asset depending on which 2nd gen you choose, but +Spd gives you a fair amount of flexibility to start the file before narrowing it down, or changing your mind somewhere down the line. Agreed with Wyvern Lord, btw. Unless you're willing to grind through 15 levels of it with DLC before moving forward, the weaknesses can be a liability. Do note your Mag may need some catching up after spending so much time in Str-heavy classes, if you're interested in healing support or using bolt axes. With all that said, go wild! The Lunatic Club is also a good place for discussing Lunatic mode in general (especially the nightmare that is early game), and the pairing thread is a good source of pairing information for in-game and post-game options (especially with its Q&A format, though going back too far will yield information now-considered outdated).

A lot of this will depend on whether or not you're grinding (I'm guessing you are, if you're considering Aversa and 2nd gen for mothers). If you're grinding, the worst of your troubles lie in early game. If not, I'd advise against third gen Morgan due to limited maps to (a) build support with her Mother and (b) train Morgan, unless you save some low-level paralogues for training her. +Speed is always a good choice. If you're considering Aversa, +Mag would also be a good consideration, but won't be amazing early game (despite the small bonus to speed growth rates). An advantage of +Spd for what I call "mixed" characters (War Monk, Falcon Knight, Grandmaster, basically any class that makes use of Magic and Strength) is a lack of emphasis on one attacking stat over another. +Spd is a great asset for early game as well, considering how important it is to double enemies early on (as well as avoid getting doubled). +Speed is also a great asset for pretty much any third gen Morgan, especially if you're unsure of her mother before starting the file. As for flaws, Def, Lck, and Res come to mind, for the reasons eclipse stated. It mostly revolves around whether or not you're willing to put up with a certain flaw through early game, which is likely where you'll face the most problems on your first run. Since I'm seeing a diverse array of skills listed (including some Lv. 15 promoted skills), what is your intended classpath, and how much will you be grinding to get those skills while still in game? Planning out intended class changes and promotions becomes more important in Lunatic/+ due to experience gains being smaller, especially with the Lv. 50 internal level cap. This may also influence your asset/flaw decision.

This. Also, while not going into too much detail, I think they should mention the extra effects of your asset and flaw. For trying to market to new players so hard, the creation thing did a terrible job of telling you what your asset and flaw were going to do. How is a new player supposed to know that going -Mag will negatively affect their speed growth (and cap, though a new player won't care about that). Something as simple as "Magic. Affects damage done with Tomes and some other special weapons. Also affects speed and resistance." Awakening was my first FE game, so the Asset/Flaw thing confused me so much. "Should I choose speed? WHAT DOES SPEED EVEN DO?!" Just because I know the effects on mods and growth rates now doesn't excuse that you can't even look at what each stat does until you've already started the game. Anyway, since that was kind of a piggyback... Plot-related: It's better than most video games I've played (heck, the plot carried me along until I figured out what I was doing gameplay-wise), but I'd shorten the length of the Valm arc. I haven't had a playthrough where I haven't just mashed the start button to the point of breaking during those chapters in months. The other story points other people have brought up are gravy too (especially Emmeryn. I can't even feel it with my heart because I'm too busy thinking with my head...) Gameplay-related: I'd like to choose the skill Chrom passes down to his kids, or just give his kids Lord access. I always prioritize Aether and Galeforce, which forces ChromxSumia if I'm minmaxing. It's a great paring for those reasons, but it limits my willingness to experiment. Maybe I'm just being picky. Heck, give the Lord line to Lissa, Owain, and Emmeryn for all I care. "You get an Aether, you get an Aether, ERRYBODY GETS AN AETHER!" And Dual Strike+ for 100% DS teams