the great haar

Are you implying that mia is promoting in part 3 or is this just a badly worded sentence? And if she is promoting in part 3, by what chapter are you assuming she is?

We're only four posts in and I'm already not liking your tone. Anyway, the problem with your example is that Titania was getting resources that wouldn't have helped her much, other than the speedwing. I would rather give her extra kills before giving her adept or a killer axe. That would be like giving Boyd energy drops and complaining that his offense is still bad. So you say something obvious and that's fine, and I say something that's obvious and you pull out a sarcastic bomb. I read Mekkah's topic about you and I thought you would be funny, but you're actually just a pain in the ass. Add for yourself. 23 at 20/20, and a speedwing to bring that to 25. She can also be BEXP, sorta, since she caps str by 20/17 or 20/18, and after that, spd is her third highest growth. So she can get her spd up like that too. Her low CEXP gains make it easier to end a chapter with 90 or so exp too. However, when Titania gets that spd proc and doubles, she will ORKO 100% of the time. Can Mia ever reach 100%? Adept and a crit forge can let her approach it, but I highly doubt it will even break 90%. And if Titania doesn't ORKO, well, she still leaves a mark on the enemy. According to interceptor, the unit would need 34 att to finish it off. Even Oscar at base level with a steel greatlance can do this. I think the only units who can't finish the halb off are units who are bad (Ilyana, Rolf) or units who shouldn't even be fighting (Mist, maybe Rhys). So I don't really see Mia doing extra damage when neither manage to ORKO as a significant advantage, at least for this particular situation. What everyone fails to realize is taht, regardless of whether or not Mia is the best candidate for all that crap (which is bullshit, since Ranulf/Ulki, and fuck even Janaff, have the same or more spd as Mia until she promotes, and by the time that happens we get the DB and some other people joining in, and that's just for adept), she's still preventing other teammates from using those resources. It should be stupidly obvious that Soren/Boyd/Titania/whoever with Ike support >>> Soren/Boyd/whoever without Ike support, and that Ranulf with adept >>> Ranulf without adept, and so on. Thus, Mia has to overcome these disadvantagesbefore she can even start winning. Are we reading the same post? The problem is that you're assuming Mia is part of Janaff's (or any unit, Titania, Gatrie, etc.) team, when comparisons don't work that way. Mia gets adept because the team doesn't care, but a unit like Boyd can't get adept because the team could instead give it to Mia. But comparisons don't work that way. It should be Mia + the rest of the team (which will not include Janaff) vs Janaff + the rest of the team (which will not include Mia). This way, it's much easier to look at the differences Mia and Janaff make for their respective teams. You're assuming that Janaff's team will also have Mia, and therefore a random unit like Ranulf or Boyd cannot get adept because Mia is part of that team and thus she should get it, makes no sense at all. What you end up doing is that Mia's team has adept, Ike support, etc., and those resources on Janaff's team completely disappear. 3-P's thickets are 3-1's thickets are all concentrated in one area, which means if Mia wants one, she'll be stuck in that area. How is this better than other units wandering around wherever they want? http://www.serenesforest.net/fe10/biorhythm.html Also, the wave's starting point is random and changes at the start of each chapter You can't assume Mia's at a specific point in her bio curve at any point in the chapter. Actually... 3x Lance General lvl 9 (Steel Lance) HP 39, Atk 31, AS 18, Hit 134, Avo 52, DEF 23, RES 14, Crit 9, Ddg 16 But there's a problem anyway. Say that a 33 att, 129 hit warrior managed to hit her. In this case, Mia has 13 HP left, which means it only takes 26 att to finish her off. At this point, there are many other enemies who can kill her, such as a 136 hit, 28 att steel sword general, or a 135 hit, 29 att sniper. There's also a 142 hit, 25 att SM that comes very close to finishing her off. So even if this original 33 att/129 hit warrior has a 30 hit rate on Mia, it doesn't have to be the same warrior attacking her to kill her off. Warrior + sniper could do the job, at which point her chances of death from that combination would be "whatever 30 is in real hit * whatever 36 is in real hit". So I wouldn't say "2HKO'd at 30-40 hit rates" to be very farfetched. Still, even if it's not 100%, 90 displayed hit is 98 real IIRC. Which is still very reliable. On the other hand, Mia's 70% is good, but I wouldn't call it reliable (in the face of 95+ success anyway). Maybe if Oscar with horseslayer and Mia with forge were to take on a swarm of paladins, then the enemies Mia would leave alive after the smoke cleared wouldn't matter, but if there was a certain enemy that I had to kill off because it could go and cause problems, like run off and kill my healer, or run off to get healed and block a chokepoint, etc., the horseslayer is more reliable than Mia. I know you can't always assume you'll end up in such a situation where you have to absolutely kill an enemy, but, fire emblem is pretty complicated anyway. ...huh? Titania doesn't need 25 spd for 3-5. ...3-11? I see no thickets or ledges. 3-3 is also a minor problem. Aren't all the thickets concentrated in one corridor that Gatrie doesn't even need to go down since there are two paths? Why is 4-E-4 a problem? Anyway, ledges are overrated, unless you can't even climb them. It's only one turn you have to spend climbing them, and unless you're literally blasting ahead at full speed every single turn, Gatrie should catch up. I personally find that to be nearly impossible in 4-4, for starters, because the sleep staff will just keep putting Ike to sleep, and if you try to push too aggressively, you'll just end up with Ike taking all the attacks. If anything, getting stuck below them and having enemies attack you is far more annoying than spending more move to climb up them. Thickets are also generally overrated as well. It helps that the thickets give a durability boost so they're a good place to camp and you're less likely to use your full move, such as 3-P, and like what you said, you like putting Mia in those thickets in 3-P. However, Gatrie himself can shove more units. If Janaff got an energy drop, he will be one rounding 100% of the time except against generals. I doubt Mia is ORKOing 100% of the time. She would need a pretty inflated level to do that. ...--/20/2? That sounds really high. I usually use about 7 GMs (with some fillers), and I have Mia at level 20 by the end of 3-E, and I also have paragon on her for 3-11 and 3-E. I don't disagree with units getting 4-5 levels for a given part 4 chapter. But unless you were training very few GMs, I find it unrealistic that Mia will hit --/20/2 after 3-E, and therefore hitting --/20/8 at a reasonable time in 4-4. Now that is just nitpicking. What about zihark? Why doesn't he get a tempest blade? Ike can be BEXP'd in 2nd tier to help pad his spd, since he should already be 2HKOing. True. However, Mia is not ORKOing unless her level is a bit inflated, and if that is the case, then add in more people who can also ORKO at 1-2 range. Titania with that speedwing, for example, is now very likely to double, and with a max mt hand axe, she should be 2HKOing. Ike himself should be doubling as well. Mia needs to be --/20/7 herself to double 32 AS swordmasters. She can reach it, but she's not 100% guaranteed to double SMs either. Skrimir can't attack at 2-range. You make it seem like Janaff doesn't do anything for the entire chapter because of four enemies, and that you are never going to take these enemies out and let Janaff be useless for the entire chapter because of it. I don't know about you, but I prioritize certain enemies to kill off. Anyway, because the enemies only have 2 move, even Haar won't be able to counter everything up the middle simply because these enemies won't be able to reach him. Janaff can do the same, except he doesn't need to be near Ike, and he can also do things like protect the heron or make a wall to protect a unit, or reposition himself so he can face even more enemies than Mia can on enemy phase, etc. my turn 1s usually include making walls so my heron/healers don't get swarmed and die (although I'll also kill off nearby enemies, but there usually aren't many in range), so it seems we'll have to disagree due to difference in our playstyles. Plus, in 4-E-3, laguz already start with full gauge, so if you must have Janaff attack, you can let him, and then he can just use the gem whenever he's free. Janaff just outranges the sniper because he has 9 move + ignores terrain to their 7 and one rounds them on player phase before they can even attack him. ...I have no idea what you're talking about here.

If Titania doubles, she will ORKO things like halbs and warriors 100% of the time. Mia is never a 100% ORKO chance on them. The spd proc doesn't help Titania significantly? Really? The same can be said for someone like Titania with a speedwing. 3-8. It's not like there are many enemies with more than 20 AS, aside from swordmasters, before 3-8. 3-5 is an exception, but most of the enemies are grouped together by type (paladins in south, generals in east, halbs/warriors in west IIRC). Since the west is ledges, Titania doesn't want to go there anyway, and the people I don't train can handle the west thanks to said ledges. She can also be BEXP, sorta, since she caps str by 20/17 or 20/18, and after that, spd is her third highest growth. So she can get her spd up like that too. Her low CEXP gains make it easier to end a chapter with 90 or so exp too.

That's still only about 33 exp a chapter. about 4 kills for Titania per chapter on average (3-P has less, but 3-2 has a lot more), if she's 8 levels above the enemy. I don't see the problem with that. 3-2 alone could get her over half a level. I would say level 10-11 for Mia and level 17 for Titania is more realistic for 3-3. This? If we look at the entire game, I think if Titania got a speedwing at 3-2, the only chapters she'll have problems doubling are 3-3 and 4-4. She'd probably have problems in 3-4, but the cliffs mean she doesn't do anything anyway.

I see problems on both sides of the argument here. Mostly narga though as he has the longest post (well, that and I also think Janaff is better). Why are Mia and Titania's levels so low? 3 chapters, and 2 levels for Mia/0 for Titania? Half the team? Haar, Ike, Gatrie, Titania, and one chapter of Ranulf and Mordy doesn't look like half the team. Losing to the best units in the team doesn't mean she sucks. Although I still think Janaff is better, but Mia isn't bad for the chapters before Janaff appears. You blow things out of proportion too often. ....isn't smash's point that, even if Mia is the best candidate for something, there's an opportunity cost that needs to be considered? Uh, you have Mia in a thicket or in best bio and compared her to what looks like the lowest hit enemy in the map and then another enemy with not much more hit. And smash is twisting facts in his favor? Oscar already has 142 hit with it. He should have 90 hit on paladins. That looks reliable to me. Titania only needs to gain 2 levels for every 3 Ike gets to match his spd, if she got a speedwing. Gatrie only has 1 less move than the average unit on the team. I don't know about you, but I've never gone so fast through chapters that Gatrie ends up falling behind. Enemy phase has the most action though. Player phase is 1 attack; enemy phase can be up to several. Isn't the emphasis on enemy phase over player phase the reason why Shinon is pretty low for someone with his stats? Mordy gets attack from supports, and also gains levels at a decent speed. And he also has a little strike from part 2, so he'll get that up later too. He doesn't stay at 38 mt. Smash's point wasn't that there are other units who can support Ike better than Mia. It's that you can't ignore the opportunity cost. Wait, so if Janaff is already killing with or without the drop (as he benefits on only a few enemies), why isn't this a blowout for him? I have honestly never had any laguz take so many attacks that they untransformed on me. Then again I've never had Mia die on me either. I don't remember 4-4 having more 2-range than any other chapter, at least percent-wise. And the tempest blade only has 20 uses. And she ORKOs with it? Well, the weakest halb in 4-4 has 46 HP, 24 def, so Mia with 2 mt from supports needs to be 20/20/4 to 2HKO without a crit. However, since this halb has 25 AS, more people can double it too. If we take the strongest halb, 48 HP, 25 def, she would need to be 20/20/8, which looks high, and she probably won't hit that level until near the end of the chapter (this halb has 27 AS, so fewer people double it, but that's not the point). I only count 4 crossbows and 1 bowgun in fox's enemy stats. And since this is a desert, they have 2 move and Janaff has 9, so he can easily stay away from them and still contribute greatly to the chapter. Because of this move difference, Janaff can also easily limit the number of enemies he faces and not untransform. Janaff's canto means he technically doesn't need tides either, since after he uses one, he moves off of it. Flying does more than let Janaff kill an enemy in 4-E-1, since flying also comes with canto. Plus, the only bows Janaff is worried about are the crossbows. Even steel bows only take off half his HP and they also have to hit him, so unless there's more than one around he should be fine.

uh, what level do you have Ilyana at for 1-E?

i don't see the point of this topic. Turn count shouldn't be the only thing that matters. Reliability/margin of error do too. Otherwise we would just be copying prog's speed runs.

i really don't know if reyson is better than ike or haar, but i think he should get a 10 rating.

uh, didn't pen15 rank ike and haar above reyson? as for sanaki, i agree. she's forced, so she can make small contributions. imo, more than the other people who got 1.5 or 2.

reyson is really, really good when he exists. he's around for less chapters than ike and haar, but i think reyson is better than both of them when they exist. just personal opinion though

YESYESYES anyway, i'm still reading through these. i disagree with a lot of them like reyson, but it's a good read.

i like stefan the most, although you have to give him all the ashera icons to him.

XD these are hilarious

don't have much to say