Interceptor
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Posts posted by Interceptor
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Charm I'm convinced should go up. Tantivy I still think the argument isn't TOO strong for, but I could see it going up one tier at least. I am aware Wyverns are the most likely to go off alone, but it's still probably not going to be for too long or anything I find.
Tantivy benefits from the skills that you're likely to find it alongside: Quick Burn, Avoid +10, or (in Panne's case) Even Rhythm. That's a serious amount of Avoid if you have a couple of those, and lets a flier operate independently for a while. Avoid-based defense in Lunatic is really good, because Hawkeye doesn't exist in vanilla.
I send fliers off alone all the time; they are the best suited for it, especially if they have a solid Support partner that they can switch to in order to deal with effective weaknesses or low HP.
Rally RES going down I can see happening. It's a nice rally but Valkrie isn't the easiest or best class to get into. Maribelle seems like the only likely candidate, and perhaps others would like to argue against this, but I find that of the four main early to mid healers (Lissa, Maribelle, Anna, Libra) she's the least useful. If she had Canto maybe not but... well, yeah. That means having a Valkrie in your team is even less likely.
Maribelle is really good, I don't know why people are always shitting on her. Sure, Lissa is a better healer and has a level lead + inertia in her favor, but Maribelle brings Demoiselle without a reclass, which turns your men into Men™. She's a really excellent unit for backline support if you are using guys like Gregor, Lon'qu, etc. Lissa probably edges her overall (due to easier access to good offense), but when it comes to defensive prowess, accept no substitute.
Actually, on the subject of Galeforce, people have pointed out that other things can substitute for it - but most of them are bad substitutes. For example, Kill something and rescue back is nice, but Rescue staves are expensive, you can't afford to use them regularly until the late game.
Money is not really a limiter in this game outside of the very early stages, especially if you are including Renown bullion. In my Lunatic+ run, I was grinding up Levin Swords into powder and snorting them like cocaine. By the time that Rescue staves are buyable (right after the start of Valm), you should be fine using them occasionally for bail-outs. It helps that they are good for leveling up staff-users, too.
The problem I have with putting Galeforce on a pedestal is that it has negatives associated with it (Falcos are just a better class than Dark Flier), and a lack of positives for it to leverage in this environment (not LTC, no mass Counter to worry about). When I can get Rally SPD and Lancefaire with flying staff access while retaining ~75% of Galeforce's effectiveness by using Rescue/Dance, I think I'm taking the hit and choosing Falco most of the time. It's not like DF is going to give you Nosferatu access, or anything.
By my calculations, it only takes a little over 50 heals for Lissa to reach level 10. You're very likely breaking the first heal staff (30 uses) in chapter 3. Chapter 4 is short, then Side Story 1 is relatively long compared to everything so far as not much auto-aggros, so you'll probably heal a lot there. By chapter 5, you're probably getting close to level 10. Add in we're probably Rescue staffing Maribelle and Ricken, as it's the easiest and safest way to save them (assuming we care about saving them, of course, but ehh) which is about 38 EXP more, and yeah, chapter 5 for Healtouch on Lissa sounds about right to me.
It's something like ~54 uses, but that's a shitload of healing. If you are breaking your Heal staff by Ch.3, that means you patched up every last scraped knee available along the way. That's more like the kind of style that I was using in my "58 Turns to beat a Chapter" L+ run. Is the hypothetical player making meatwalls and paper-cutting enemies to death, here?
Also something else I wanted to bring up that I forgot to mention before regarding assumptions: I never mentioned bonus box or renown awards. My intention was renown up to the large bullion (which I think is fairly standard on most playthroughs, from what I can see) and no other spotpass features at all (i.e. no bonus box). Do people think those are reasonable?
I think that Renown makes things more interesting. Bullion (L) is kind of an arbitrary cutoff, though. I'd lean towards starting the counter at Energy Drop, i.e. one complete playthrough. That gives you the Seal, a Seed, and a good Merc weapon to work with, at least. The extra money in Ch. 4 is really helpful, though not as much as it would be if you were allowing Spotpass store items.
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Well, toward the end of the game, the enemies do start bringing decent base hit with Hit+10 as a free skill and the GKs will start toting Luna. Berserkers also bring a decent amount of power. If we're going with a 5 combat pair environment, this is something that could probably be an issue for those in positions 3 through 5 (aside from them not really even having a choice whether they want Rightful King or not). I guess the thing is, I'm not comparing it against anything high tier. It's just up against Rightful King and they're both pretty much third string abilities. Rightful King really needs to be supporting a bunch of proc skills to really be useful, which isn't going to be a speedy process, either. In a fight of marginal benefits, I think Dual Guard+ has a bit more going for it.
That's fair; compared to RFK, DG+ definitely looks better even in vanilla.
Chapter 9, 10 and 13 are the main chapters with Barbarians in them (for fear of Gamble). 9 and 10 are the ones with the significant concern, but a healthy support pool can be established by then to kick back crit rates. 10 is probably the worst of them all, but there are so many reinforcement spawns of Wyvern Riders that Tharja can gain healthy amounts of exp from then in the right-most 2 funnels on the map after your other units have taken care of the few Barbs that exist on the map. Just because Tharja faces crit from some enemies doesn't mean that she has to face all enemies by herself. It's not god-tier or anything, but she's still an extremely servicable unit, and her easy-access skills, particularily Anathema and Vengeance, do nothing but help her cause.
Where I'm underestimating the amount of Gamble!Barbarians and the effect of gamble against her, I think you're overestimating the amount that Tharja actually will engage in combat with.
Sure, you can cover Tharja in bubble-wrap, or give her favored access to easy kills that could otherwise go to someone else. Either way, you have to come up with something to compensate for her innate crit avoid weakness, and putting on the kid gloves sometimes has downsides elsewhere.
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Still, with base 3 Luck and enemies toppling a ferocious 7-8 crit due to base 15 sk being the top of the line in Ch10, I don't understand where the huge problem is. Luck tonics early on in her career until she hits B with somebody should suffice (or in Ch10, having C+standing next to someone) will give her CEV at an absolute minimum of 13. 40% Luck growth is respectable, and it's ridiculously easy to pump up her CEV.
Well, don't underestimate the fact that you will still face some Barbarians. They can spawn with Gamble, and then the 7-8% crit turns into 17-18% crit. Your established characters can mostly handle that, but Tharja emphatically cannot. And even with small percentages, the CoD over one map is going to increase every time you face one. i.e. if she faces five enemies with a 3% chance to die on hit, that's basically a ~14% chance to die over that span just from a critical hit.
It's a problem that you sort of need to solve for her, in order to keep from getting punched in the gut. I say Libra and a tonic as a default, but there are other alternatives.
Dual Guard+ - There is some merit to the skill. I mean, it's an extra 10% to evade an attack, no ands, ifs or buts. The class stats are a bit iffy, but it also brings Luna and full weapon triangle advantage to the table. Thing is, it's hard to justify a 15 level detour to a mediocre class when Hero is right there with its level 5 Sol and much better stat distribution (for Morgan and Lucina, anyway). I suppose there's some argument for Chrom, who doesn't have th luxury of Hero, but I think he'd still prefer Paladin. Now that I've written things down, it's a bit of a tougher call than I thought. Both require jumping through hoops to really set up, but Rightful King should be available earlier and provide direct benefits to Aether, building in stepping stones as more proc skills arrive, whereas Dual Guard+ only pays off right after it's earned. Still... I actually think I have to side with Dual Guard+ here.
I love DG+, but only for Lunatic+. Without the carrot of defending yourself from the otherwise-unblockable Hawkeye/Luna+ combo, it loses a lot of its shine in vanilla. By the time it finally lands, who is really going to benefit from it? Mediocre characters that can't establish either their dodge or concrete-based durability in time?
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For what it's worth Gaius pairup gives an immediate +9 Hit to Tharja at base (and they're two units that you'd probably want to pair up because the speed boost is appreciated as well. Libra gives +3 Luk at base which translates to +1 Hit and +3 CEV. It's not what I'd call worth writing home for.
I don't think you're solving the correct problem, here. It's NBD if Tharja misses someone occasionally, however it's probably a reset if she gets critted in the face.
Libra gives a double handful of stats because of his bases, and it will only get better as they build supports. Ultimately you want to make sure that Tharja gets the +10 crit avoid from the Support system, which ought to solve her issues on that front until she grows out of it herself.
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WRT Charm, I just remembered that Lucina comes with it, too. So post-13, and even if you aren't using her as a main unit (she makes an excellent Support partner), the effective Charm reach for your army can be pretty substantial.
About Tharja, someone really needs to drop some stats on this one. There are ways to deal with a LCK deficit that results in listed crit from enemies... one of them is called "Libra", and he shows up in the same chapter as she does.
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Out of those three, Enemy Phase sounds the best to me. Still sounds like it has the makings of a low tier skill to me, though...
There's one more that I forgot:
4) are the Support unit, and will give the Hex effect to enemies without being in danger of getting hit.
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As to Hex, it requires being adjacent to your enemy, and outside of bows, why would a mage WANT to be next to their enemy??
If you:
1) are using tomes with shitty HIT,
2) don't care about incoming damage because of either Nosferatu or Vengeance,
3) don't have a choice, because Enemy Phase.
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Galeforce is absolutely huge, even in casual play. The amount of things it lets you do is crazy. It lets you take out key dangerous enemies and then retreat to a safe place. It lets you clear out an extra enemy on player phase, reducing nearby risk. It lets you rush ahead and defeat the boss when things are getting hairy. It provides a huge bonus, no matter how you're playing. The obvious downside is that you're not getting it until the game is half over - and I could certainly see that as an argument for it dropping down, but in terms of usefulness, it's definitely matching Veteran or coming close.
Let's not get carried away, here; Galeforce is just an extra Player Phase action after a kill. There are lots of neat little things that you can do with it, but some of those things can be duplicated with other skills/abilities. Also, this isn't an LTC list, and the primary thing that it's good for isn't actually critical for completion. Finally, as you noted, it's missing for basically half of the game: there's a big availability gap.
Put all of those things together, and hopefully you can see why I am scratching my head that this skill is being touted as one of the Top Two. It's really useful, but not irreplaceably so. Take Veteran away, and you've handicapped one of your strongest units by kneecapping his/her stat growth. Take Galeforce away, and... who cares? Dark Flier isn't a great class anyway.
I think I'm comfortable putting it higher than DS+. DS+ is a good skill, but it requires high support levels and good skill to be really valuable, and of course is limited to two characters - one certain and one likely to be used, of course, however.
DS+ is useful as soon as you have access to it, AKA immediately. Starting units have really pitiful DS chances, and +10% is very significant.
Wow. I never thought someone would tell me I was underrating the auras. I was expecting cries of "Charm is overrated! Low tier!"
And you'll probably still get those cries, because people are notoriously bad at estimating the long-term effects of small things. Everyone and their mother is wowed by wombo-combo stuff, because those things are impactful in an obvious way, but auras and passive stat sticks have a lot of hidden power in this game.
What ones in particular do you think need to move up, and why?
I haven't done any kind of deep statistical analysis, but probably many of them, with some exceptions for reasons of availability or situational use.
Take Charm, for instance. We know it's going to be available all of the time, because Chrom is assumed to be used. On the surface, +5 HIT/AVO doesn't seem like a whole lot, but consider that it impacts allies in a 3-tile radius from Chrom (even when he is a Support unit), and thus is going to take part in hundreds of battles over the course of the game. Any time that an ally or enemy's hit rate is at a low-to-moderate value, you can expect Charm to have a sizable impact on the result.
As a crude example: take someone who is 5HKO'ed, and faces four attacks at 50% HIT from enemies. There's no CoD here, but suppose that you're going to need to take the time to heal them if they get hit three or four times. That's going to happen roughly 32% of the time normally, but only 19% of the time with the +5 AVO from Charm. It's nearly 1.7x more likely that you have to heal without Charm, and this is just for a pedestrian ~50% HIT rate. If you drop that to 40% listed HIT, now the difference becomes 10%/5%... Charm is twice as likely to save you the hassle of having to deal with fixing up high damage.
You can flip this for ally attacks, too, because misses will frequently require clean-up.
tl;dr -- a little in a abundance is a lot.
For Tantivy, I don't feel like it should really be any higher. How often do you end your turn 3 spaces away from the nearest ally? I tend to find it's not that often but maybe you have different experiences? On the other hand, a lot of people can go Wyvern Rider, and it's a good class thanks to flight, axes and good promotions, so they likely will.
Consider that it's a Wyvern Rider skill, and that Riders are among the most likely units to be flying off somewhere on a solo sortie because of their mobility advantage. Panne is the poster-Taguel for this.
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But you can debate gameplay from any number of possible angles. Why LTC?
One advantage is that there's a distinct common ground upon which to debate gameplay. When you have a perfect tactician that always makes the best decisions and goes as fast as possible, you can focus on the real differences between characters, which are exposed when you push the pace.
"Easy" is a very vague term by comparison. You spend a lot of time just arguing about the parameters of the argument. The closer you get to an objectively determined environment, the more time you can spend comparing things that aren't player tendencies.
Not that I'm endorsing LTC tier lists; I've never liked them.
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Anyway, I've never understood why people make so much of a fuss about LTC in tier list debates. For a tier list to be useful, its criteria need to be pretty close to how most people actually play, and the percentage of players who actually care about absolute LTC is pretty low.
Tier Lists Are Not Character Guides. It appears that the reason you didn't understand the fuss, is that you didn't understand the purpose of a tier list. They are nothing but vehicles for discussion and debate; they lack the necessary context for informing people on how to play efficiently.
GF is also pretty useful as an offensive skill, if you can get six Galeforce units by Valm (pretty easy if Avatar marries Cordelia, Chrom marries Sumia and both of them pass Galeforce to both children) then you have enough PPO to play an offensive game instead of a defensive one without wasting all your money on Rescue Staves.
Nobody said GF wasn't useful, but consider that it's currently tied for best skill in the list. Does it make the game "easier" to the extent that it's first amongst equals with Veteran? An entire tier better than DS+?
Auras and passives are a little under-represented here, as well. Tantivy is really badass, for example. It's a big stat stick in a small package.
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You say it's not a speedrun tier list, but it seems tuned that way if you put Galeforce as high as it is. If you're not going for records, and the player isn't supposed to need frequent bail-out buttons, I'm not sure how you can justify it next to Veteran.
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Then again, I can't really recall too many Japanese games advocating homosexual relationships. It's happened a few times, but I don't think there's all that much pressure from the LGBT community or any supporting or opposing parties thereof on the Japanese front. IIRC, the Japanese have a tendency of not protesting against or for sexual minorities. Correct me if I'm misguided, though.
Game developers from The Land of
Repressed Sexual DeviancyThe Rising Sun have to sell their games abroad if they want to be really successful. NA and EU together are a huge market, and not everyone is going to get the Dragon Quest home-country sales advantage. Japanese people are just as good at counting money as everyone else.Besides, there have already been several games with same-gender relationships, and a ton with implied stuff (including our own Radiant Dawn). Cat's out of the bag.
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People tell me I'm at fault when they interpret something I say/write in a way that wasn't intended.
Sometimes when I pull up to an intersection with a four-way stop, the other people don't obey the right-of-way rules. For whatever reason -- maybe because I am not Vladimir Putin -- this doesn't turn me into a scofflaw.
Those are only the people who feel safe enough to admit it. There's a huge number of people who are afraid to admit it due to their environment. If you fear that you'll be stabbed or beaten to death because you're gay, you're careful about stuff like this. That said, one or two couples would be enough for me. Maybe one male/male and one female/female pair.
There is almost definitely some under-representation going on, but it's a fluid statistic anyway; as we know, there are straight people who are still kinda-gay. The point I was making is that you don't want to go overboard. Although I'd go one further than you and put a bi character in there. It's been done before.
If I may weigh in on this whole "same gender S support" thing... Any game dev worth his salt could make it work from a gameplay perspective (see FE4's replacement children), but it would be risky at best from a business perspective. There are probably a lot more potential customers that would be turned off by same-gender S supports and not buy the game than there would be customers who would buy it because of such a feature.
Are you a time-traveler from the late 20th century, or something? Not only do we have games with same-gender pairings these days, but it's not limited to niche stuff either: Mass Effect 3 (AAA title) had same-gender pairing, and they had a sex scene, FFS. And that wasn't even Bioware's first foray into the issue!
If anything, it's risky to even give off a whiff of intolerance these days.
For something that would take extra effort to add, it wasn't worth it and still isn't.
I think you're over-estimating how much effort it would take. There's no reason that they couldn't use the guts of the existing inheritance system; it's not like anyone bats an eyelash at Morgan just being a gendered palette-swap regardless of his/her second parent. Come up with a plausible explanation during the Paralogue, and call it a game. At the end of the day, "lolAdopted" isn't any more of a copout than "lolAmnesia".
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Why do people make vanity threads that call out other posters? Why isn't this against the rules? Why is the sky blue? Do you know the Muffin Man?
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Then stop acting like it is. People saying that it's "unfortunate" and there was "no reason for it not to be possible" makes it sound like you all think it's a bad thing. If it wasn't your intent, my apologies, this is just how it came off to me.
I am not responsible for your inferences. When you replace someone else's words with one of yours, you do so at your own peril.
I don't see how.
Tangential: the tidbit you jumped on was literally a parenthetical in a post that had nothing to do with same-sex relationships.
Nonsensical: your argument against same-sex pairs in Awakening (hair color and inheritance) is nearly devoid of basis; two random people on the Internet basically came up with the same solution to the non-problem almost simultaneously.
I don't know about the others, but I think it's bad. There's no reason not to. Why do so many writer not just invent worlds where nobody gives a fuck if a person is gay or straight? Why is that so hard? Why does anyone even care about the sex someone else finds attractive?
Gay gamers have as much right to character they can identify with on this level as straight gamers.
Only something like ~5% of adults identify as LGBT, so you also don't want to over-represent. I personally wouldn't mind axing a few of the hetero S-pairs in exchange.
EDIT:
You did though:
Which was immediately followed by a quote showing that I did not. Word choice actually does matter in English.
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fair enough. just can't get away from shitstorms eh
FWIW, I think that the idea of alternate universes as a way to evade canon is a pretty good one, since it uses the rules of the world that it exists in. Everyone's headcanon can be right in a multiverse. Although that does mean that nobody can be wrong, which apparently is a show-stopper, because FOH if people can't lord their superior internal storylines over someone else's.
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Well, I don't think it's unfortunate.
I don't care.
Because I don't see how a lack of homo pairings is a bad thing.
Nobody said it was "a bad thing". This is your wording.
That's been my main point from the beginning.
I understand your point perfectly. Your point is tangential and nonsensical.
Or you can just ignore an aside in a parenthesis that was more or less meant to clarify the parameters and context of everyone x everyone and actually focus on the real content of the post
Well, the rest of your post was uncontroversial. Hard for someone to make a shitstorm out of it.
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The hair colors are a barrier. The children always inherit their non-definite parent's hair color. They can't do that if they're adopted.
Oh please. You either randomize the hair color, or you use a surrogate parent. Hi, my name is Interceptor, and I solve stupid problems.
I don't see why this is such a big deal. IS chose not to do homo pairings, that's that.
It's not "a big deal". It's unfortunate that they chose not to, because there really isn't any mechanical reason why it would be impossible. End of story.
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Except the kids are clearly meant to be biological. Because variable hair colors and inheritance. :/
And neither of those things are barriers to including adoption in the game. FFS, the RPG landscape is littered with adopted children.
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What's wrong with there being no homosexual pairings? It's not like the developers hate gays and lesbians or anything. We've seen implied homos in past FEs, like Heather. They just can't work in Awakening because the children wouldn't be able to exist.
He said it was "unfortunate, not "wrong". And you don't get any kids from second-gen pairings, either, so it's not like it wouldn't "work".
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I wouldn't put them on my Mount Rushmore above heavy-hitters like Veteran, but I happen to like the aura-based skills in this game.
They have a lot of hidden power that goes unnoticed by many people. Charm and Solidarity aren't flashy, for example, but are part of hundreds of battles in a playthrough. Together they are responsible for all sorts of "miracle" crits/hits/dodges, for which they get no credit.
See also: Hex, Anathema, Demoiselle.
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Except it's not fun to read complaints, especially about something that's part of my personal headcanon. My headcanon is my headcanon and I'm not going to change it just because one person doesn't like it.
It's not that someone not liking what I'm writing is ruining my fun. It's that they're complaining that they don't like it. I really don't care that they don't like it. I just want them to keep it to themselves.
I'd just let it go, personally; comments from the peanut gallery are a part of life when you put yourself out there. The audience has no power over you except that which you give them. It's perfectly acceptable to just ignore people, especially when they are being rude.
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Personally I think permadeath is bullshit because hey, we all restart when someone dies...
Speak for yourself. Before I figured out how to consistently clear Lunatic+ Ch. 2, I sacrificed Stahl all the time. You have one fewer deployment slot available in Ch. 3 than you have potential units, so you don't even miss his presence.
I also killed Tormod consistently during chapter 4-4 of Radiant Dawn. And murdered people in Shadow Dragon in order to unlock other characters.
IMO Classic mode in Awakening would be perfect if it had battle saves instead of bookmarks. There's nothing worse than losing 30 minutes of gameplay because of a wrong call or a bad RNG roll.
So play Casual with resets when someone dies. That's literally what that mode is for, so just use it. Classic is more suited for the people who don't make mistakes, or can recover from bad RNG rolls.
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Good luck. Feel free to turn on the Lunatic Bat Signal™ if you get stuck somewhere, or if you want general tips on what to focus on.
Awakening Skills tier list
in Fire Emblem: Awakening
Posted
I think that I need to write something more broad about Maribelle, just so that I don't have to reply to three different people individually.
Lissa, as I already mentioned, has a level lead on Maribelle and is a superior healer. But these two things are pretty inconsequential over the course of the game. Lack of healing is one of the easiest things in the world to compensate for, because healing is not special. Awakening showers you in healers (Lissa, Maribelle, Libra, Anna), and Libra in particular makes for a great burst healer (comes able to use Physic, has Healtouch, and starts with excellent MAG). When there are so many chapters in this game that give you more deployment slots than you are reasonably going to use for combatants, it's dead-easy to just throw in an extra healer for emergency situations.
The level lead that Lissa has only matters from the perspective of having higher stats, and getting skills/promoted earlier. But Lissa's skills are worse. Miracle is not useful in an environment where a death is the worst possible result, and Healtouch is duplicative/overkill. Lissa can jump right to Sage, but she's as frail as a wet tissue paper, never grows out of it, and can't use Nosferatu to compensate. Lissa's best-case combat scenario is the odd Player Phase kill, or tightly-controlled Enemy Phase facings. Miriel and Tharja are far superior general magic-users, and even Henry has a better future than she does.
Maribelle, on the other hand, isn't merely a mediocre combat unit in a healer's body. She goes all-in on the support role, with skills that are actually useful and unique: Demoiselle, Rally RES, and Dual Support+. This is in addition to being a more useful Pair-up partner (+SPD > +SKL), and still being able to fulfill the role of the backup magic user. Maribelle gives you 75% of Lissa's healing and offense, while offering you useful support skills that you aren't reasonably going to get somewhere else. She's a specialist with just the right secondary roles.
Demoiselle is really useful, like a male-only defense-centric Charm. It does require that you deploy men, but the men are pretty strong in their own right. What does it matter that people can use Charlie's Angels teams? Pannecake is great, but Lon'qu has better skills for the job (Panne wishes she had Avoid +10 and Vantage). Gregor is a badass in a great class that gets exactly what he needs from Demo: crit evade (his LCK is shit) and more avoid to go with Patience. Chrom is also a dude. Either Robin or Morgan are going to be in this mix for this skill. Etc. Using Demoiselle effectively just means noticing that there are potentially strong characters for your army that don't have boobs.
WRT sending fliers out alone: why not? It's useful for training, and separating enemy groups into manageable chunks. It's so easy for fliers to disengage from bad situations, due to their superior MV and terrain-busting, that having one of them go Bulldog is a perfectly viable tactic. If they get overwhelmed, just bail out. It's more useful for Wyverns than Pegs, because of durability issues and bows, but Pegs don't have Tantivy anyway.
WRT Galefore: opportunity cost is a thing. Obviously you're better off with Galeforce than you are without it, which is why it is so noticeable when it shows up. But in order to get GF, you left easy access to Lancefaire and Rally SPD on the table, both of which are really useful abilities. Plus, your Dark Flier has no staff ability. Sure, tomes are useful, but is hitting RES and gaining another weapon type worth giving up mobile flying staff utility for? Falcos with -faire and an appropriate Pair-up partner are still able to do some serious damage. Maybe even especially so, because they are usually your best answer to enemy spellcasters, who certainly don't have low RES and high DEF.
WRT training: I am just asking what is considered reasonable for a playthrough. I squeezed as much EXP out of my run as possible, to the point where I would deliberately use weaker weapons in order to wring out the maximum amount of training. I got Miriel from base level to ~8 just in Chapter 3. If this is a sort of thing that you're assuming that people will do, that's going to have a big impact on the availability of skills for this tier list.