Life

Why Guy and Matt are gay: Credit to Paperblade for pointing it out.

My bad, haven't played the game in a long time and I'm used to having all of my units promote in Chapter 17.

Oh boo hoo, Snowy. So there was no post in the voting topic. Big freaking deal. The second Cynthia posted, any more we say is now null and void. Sorry. I'm actually upset about it myself too.

I'd like to see Stefan > Mia, personally. I don't know if we're counting Stefan's recruitment against him but just look at a basic comparison at the start of Chapter 16. Stefan - Level 8 Swordsman - S Swords Vague Katti: 31 Att, 139 Hit, 25 AS, 63 Crit Iron Blade: 28 Att, 129 Hit, 25 AS, 28 Crit 38 HP, 55 Avo, 5 Dodge, 12(15) Def, 9 Res Mia - Level 16 Myrmidon - B Swords - B Rhys, C Ilyana Steel Sword (Forge): 26 Att, 120 Hit, 19 AS, 16 Crit Killing Edge: 22 Att, 120 Hit, 19 AS, 37 Crit 26 HP, 47 Avo, 9 Dodge, 9 Def, 4 Res First off, I'm really iffy on Mia having B Ilyana instead of C. FirexLight at B level is 1 Att, 1 Def and 5 Acc. Yippie. To get this support, Ilyana's got to be fielded in every chapter from when she joins until Chapter 16, along with Mia. As a result, I gave the support a C level for the time being which is really... well, 2 Acc. Next thing. To maximize Mia's offense, best case scenario is to give her the highly coveted Killing Edge that Zihark also likes or to forge a Steel Sword with 5+ Att, 1- Wt and 9+ Crit. I think we're looking at about a ~7700G sword for Mia in the second case. At this stage in the game, that's a lot of money. We can remove the critical to drop it down to ~3200 but that's still no cakewalk right now. And then there's still the matter of Mia still not equaling Stefan's damage output, even with her B Rhys support. She does come close but that's only after we've tossed her a very pricey sword and Stefan still has a ton of natural Crit on her. Defensively, Mia's just gotten past the joke stage. Assuming Wrath/Vantage, 22 Att 2RKOs the girl. The only people who have that are the Fighter (even after WTD) and Kimaarsi. But this isn't to say that her defense is stable. She's still 2 range bait to the stuff like Archers and Mages that litter this map. Stefan is too but the 21 Att Sniper 5RKOs him 4% of the time (assuming a hit for each attack) while just missing a 2RKO on Mia. If Mia is barely usable for her defense, Stefan is a brick wall make out of fuck. Mia's clearly got growth time and availability to her name but Stefan nets you better results with just the Vague Katti (he's the only person who can use up until around Chapter 22/23 when Mia/Zihark hit S Swords) and possibly an Ashera Icon (who else actually needs those?) to get rid of those pesky crit rates. Mia requires forges, Rhys to be fielded all the time along with Ilyana, BExp and Wrath. Is the result that we get from putting all of those resources into Mia worth it at the end or do we get the same/better result with minimal input for Stefan?

This was more for comical effect. I wanted to share this line with #feto. When I said that I didn't know how to respond, it was more of a "I can't think of a snappy quote to use in this instance". Also, I wasn't intenting for the debate to actually be done since the last line was more like "Snowy, you can't debate at all" but since Cynthia's already put in her two cents...

For the record, I'm going to ignore everything about Astra. My bad for not playing the game in 2.5 years and forgetting that Astra uses 5 weapon uses instead of 1. Congrats Snowy, you were finally right about something. Doesn't mean that you win the debate when the rest of your points are shit. No but it takes little effort to make your numbers user friendly. Just saying. Nedata? Problem? Have you even LOOKED at his stats? Nedata lv 18 (venin axe) 40 hp, 20 atk, 12 AS, 75 hit, 25 avo, 9 def, 5 res, 3 crit, 1 cev Let's see here... 20 Atk fails to 2HKO Mia at level 11 (very possible when you consider all the BExp available not to mention 2 chapters of fighting) and even if he does hit, he's looking at 33 Hit. He can't double a level 10 Boyd and 3RKOs the guy with 51 Hit. Yes, Nedata is giving the team so much trouble that we must send Lethe to eat up the Exp gift that IS decided to grant us with. It's wonderful that Lethe can potentially help out anywhere on the map. But what you don't seem to realize is that she's kinda redundant in certain areas. I only attack points that are not logically sound. You could be arguing for Titania and I could be arguing for Bastian and considering how your opening had quite a lot of basic problems with it, I'd still probably win. The winner of a debate isn't the one who has the better unit. It's the one who can defend their unit better. You of all people should know this. Basically, I don't argue losing battles. Lethe is actually a good unit to send south to help out with Kotaff since, surprise surprise, he gives Titania problems. A core team of 8-9 is a lot better than a team of 16. Luminescent Blade proved that it's easier to beat FE8 with just Seth than using Seth and other units. While this isn't FE8, the point still stands. The less units you use, the stronger the collective team is. The fact of the matter is that Lethe SHOULDN'T need BExp. Ever. Lethe is essentially a prepromote, or a unit that is essentially free from RNG screwage. There's absolutely NO point to give her Bonus Experience or even to argue for it. Lethe shouldn't be needing extra levels because her stats should good enough. You claiming that she needs BExp to hit level 20 means that you don't have confidence in a certain level at that point in time. wat is this i dont even Honestly, I'm stunned. I don't know what to say. I tell you that all decimals are rounded down ("all fractions are omitted") because it says right here in the FE9 calculations page and your response is "well, Cynthia rounds up"? No words can explain my thoughts right now. Congratulations, you have dumbfounded me. Found it. I only posted the Str since it's the more important one. Lethe has exactly a 50% chance of having 20 or less Str at level 20. We can argue back and forth over whether or not Lethe will have 20 or 21 Str at level 20 but that's going to be pointless. But it's a lot better to assume 20 Str because hey, if she's still a star at 20 Str, that's good. If she needs 21 Str that badly, it looks like your arguments are then based on luck. Well, boo fucking hoo for you. But did you ever consider that using [.code] format might save someone else from having a brain aneurysm? You just don't get it, do you? It doesn't matter that Lethe in Cat form can take down Danomill without healing. The fact of the matter is that Lethe will NOT be in Cat form when she reaches Danomill. And Lethe isn't going to be anywhere near her second transform of the chapter or eating a full quarter of all of the Laguz Stones available in this game (which all go to Reyson) just to beat a single boss. It's called "risk-and-return", a basic business concept. Your "what-ifs" are entertaining but get realistic for a change. In that case, we are in agreement. Lethe plays a very minimal role in this chapter since doing anything to boost her performance leaves you with one useless unit at all times (if we field Mordecai to recruit Zihark, he needs a helper to beat the Myrmidons since he can't, you know, attack). I think it's relevant to note that Rolf, Soren and Ilyana also don't take damage when attack Ravens. And since you face a max of 2-3 at any given time (and usually less than that), I'd still say that Lethe is nothing special. Her offense isn't great and while her defense is fine, others just don't take damage... period. Yes it's a 33% chance of happening. But the point is that if I field Oscar or Marcia with a Killer Lance and either of them lands the hit, it's better than Lethe's offense right there. It's a gimmick and not a reliable one but if you have an item that you can use, why not use it? I'm simply pointing out what happens with the critical. Stop being obtuse. No, Lethe's offense is not impressive since she's not the only one who can do it. Last I checked, you don't get brownie points if you do an extra 8 damage to an enemy when Unit B still does enough damage to two-hit the damn thing. You either 2RKO the Raven or you don't. And since Lethe 2RKOs Ravens but isn't the only one doing that, then yes, her offense truly is nothing special. Welcome to the harsh world of reality. Touche. Tits or GTFO. Which is all nice and dandy until you realize that Lethe's untransformed once you get to the real fighting. I could be absolutely wrong about this but a unit that can continue fighting is probably better than one who sits useless on the battlefield for a decent number of turns while everyone else is pulling their weight. But once again, I could be completely mistaken. It matters because Stefan doubles everything in the game minus a couple of Swordmasters in Endgame no matter what he holds. And he does this at base level. I'd say that's pretty cool and something worth mentioning since Lethe actually ends the game having doubling problems. 1) Stefan doesn't NEED that Silver Blade to have more than passable offense. Stefan already has amazing offense with an Iron Blade in his hands. And I gave him that since silly me for assuming that Ike has control of the Steel Blade (if Stefan gets his hands on it, things die, simple as that). Stefan ties Lethe's Atk with a simple Iron Blade (buyable in 16) but doubles everything on the map without blinking an eye. Lethe fails to double Myrmidons and has a 35% chance of not doubling the Sniper (the chance that she only has 16 or less AS). And that's when Lethe's a Cat which is only about 45% of the time since Lethe detransforms long before the map finishes. Lethe at best ties Stefan's offense. At best. I hate to think what happens at worst... oh wait, Lethe's useless on the map at worst! 2) It exists as an option. If Stefan ever wants to go Chuck Norris on a guy's ass, guess what happens. He pulls out the Vague Katti and does it. Lethe has no "Chuck Norris" option. If she can't kill an enemy, she has no upgrade. Stefan does. 3) Wrong. Wrong. Very wrong. Oh dear. I can just smell you wanting to pull out Mia right now and argue that she uses it better. Except you seem to forget that knocking Mia/Zihark down to half HP means that they can die much easier. Why would you ever risk a reset when Stefan criticals about ~80% of the time with it at full HP? And not only that but Stefan's nuts 19 Str means that he doesn't even need the critical to kill most things. It just saves a use on the sword. 5) Aww, you're really funny. Mist still needs 2 Arms Scrolls for the Sonic Sword and even when she has it, she's not blowing anyone away (since Mist's job isn't offense, it's healing). You're better off selling them for 8k a piece. Sure Mist uses the Sonic Sword better than anyone. But all it does is give her offense that's comparable to the weaker people on your team. And when you realize that Mist shouldn't be used as a combatant and is better as a healer with a sword just to protect herself, you can start trading it away to others who might benefit. Like Stefan who now has 1~2 range or Lucia who has even better Mag but comes a good 8 chapters later. Lethe only dreams of days when she can have 1~2 range. See, here's the thing. Stefan uses the Vague Katti better than anyone else. Stefan can also use the Sonic Sword if things work out that way. In case you didn't realize, this isn't a tier list debate. This is Stefan vs. Lethe. And if Stefan has a pretty decent chance at getting 1~2 range while Lethe always has to attack at 1 range, point for Stefan. Even if you have to jump through hoops to get it. And no matter how you slice it, that's pretty important. 1) Lethe won't be getting either the Demi Band or the Laguz Gems. It's similar to my case of Stefan not getting the Sonic Sword except I put up a very good reason of why Stefan should get it instead of Mist (Mist isn't designed to be a combatant while Stefan is). I'd like you to do the same for the Demi Band and Laguz Gems before assuming that Lethe can pig out with either of them. 2) Sigh. Just to be clear, I'm going to summarize your argument. "To make Lethe useful past Turn 5, we want her to get attacked. And obviously, she can't kill the guy back but it's useful for protecting a healer! And this makes Lethe better than Stefan who never has to deal with this problem!" Are you trying to argue that Lethe is usable or better than Stefan? Because right now, you're just proving that Lethe has uses. Not that she's better than Stefan. 3) Ok. Lethe can shove units. Great. Stefan can do that too. AND he can kill stuff at the same time! No shit, Sherlock. I've already proved that Stefan's offense is better than Lethe's in pure numbers. Then toss in the fact that Lethe HAS transformation problems and your answer is "she can shove!"? And you expect this to be better than Stefan's performance? 16 - Do you honestly consider 3 Myrmidons, 1 Fighter and 2 Mages to be "lots of fighting"? 18 - Naesala is on the next map. Nice try. This one has a Sage boss with Blizzard and Shinon with a Brave Bow. By the time Lethe gets to Shinon, she's untransformed. Never mind the boss. 19 - Knight Ring doesn't come until Naesala leaves and fuck no, Reyson is getting it. Every. Single. Time. I want to see you prove that Lethe is a better recipient of the Knight Ring than Reyson. 20 - Did you even check where the reinforcements are? They're on a slope where you can't touch them at 1 range. God damn it, at least do SOME homework before making claims. After that, Stefan is much better here and also has WTA on Shiharam (not like Lethe even fights him at all). 21 - This map still takes at least 8 or 9 turns, even with Rescue and Drop. Too bad that Lethe stops fighting on Turn 5, eh? 22 - You seem to have this notion that overkill offense is needed. Stefan has 8 base Mag. This is very sufficient for the Sonic Sword. Stefan never "needs" a Spirit Dust. He certainly likes it but it's not worth spending longer than 1 turn here. That being said, once again, Stefan doesn't suffer if he doesn't get the Spirit Dust. He just profits. Basic business lesson, Snowy. 23 - You mean 3 Wyverns to fight after you recruit Haar? I'll give you this for the sake of your Jill support but do remember that Haar usually doesn't pop up until Turn 5 (you need to cross a certain line on the map) and Iron/Killer Ballistas mean that Marcia or Tanith aren't going to be running ahead of everyone, even with the Full Guard equipped. At the same time, Stefan goes with the rest of the team and kills anything that looks at him funny. 24 - Facing Rikard is easy. Remember that Rikard is the first guy who 2HKOs base level Stefan in the game and that's with 52 Hit. Now imagine level 12 Stefan. 25 - We have 1 Full Guard, a boss with a Bolt Axe and Resolve who moves and all sorts of enemies littering the top portions of the map, including Iron/Killer Ballistas. Snowy, I know that Tanith, Jill and Marcia are good. But they're not THAT good. We need the rest of the army to help out with the ground troops. When Israel razed Gaza, they didn't just send the planes to bomb the shit out of the place. They followed it up with infantry. Same idea here. And Stefan isn't useless when the army gets to the top of the hill, unlike Lethe. Snowy, you're giving points to Lethe when she's not fighting... at all. You don't seem to get the fact that Lethe transforms into a little pussy on Turn 5. This deems her useless. Umm... YES. Stefan's offense is miles better than Lethe's. Miles and away. And this is when Lethe is transformed. With no Demi Band. You don't seem to understand that transformation problems are tied to Lethe inherently. I'm haven't attached arbitrary weights to her legs. This is her character. She fights for 4 turns and then transforms back to Beast Tribe. This is fact. Stefan never transforms to a little kid with a wooden blade. He's always fighting. This is another fact. And his base offense is equal to Lethe at her strongest. Just look at the numbers that I posted in my first post. He's got 28 Atk at base level with a buy-able Iron Blade. That ties Lethe after 4 levels of growth. Just imagine if he starts using the Steel Blade. That's 30 Atk. Whoops, Stefan's got more Atk and AS than Lethe! I'm not being biased. I'm being realistic. If you honestly believe that we finish Chapter 21 in 4 turns, you're nuts. If you believe that we finish Chapter 23 before the end of Turn 5, you're crazy. And in the later maps, most of the troops sit near the boss. Look at Chapter 18. Look at Chapter 21. Look at Chapter 23 and 24. That's at least 4 or 5 turns into the map. And whoops, Lethe's detransformed back to Beast Tribe! Short of Shove, she's useless at that point. All you've done is shown how badly you've missed the point. The more Lethe fights, the sooner she becomes useless in a map. At it takes is 5 fights for her to transform back at the start of Turn 5. We can either have her fight or have her not fight. If you want to bring up Shove as a Cat, why can't I just field a Demi Banded Mordecai/Muarim instead and have him do the shoving? In every argument you make, Lethe has clear cut problems. She either fights and transforms earlier or she doesn't fight and I wonder why I didn't field a better unit like Mordecai or Muarim. And once again, Stefan doesn't have these problems. At worst, Stefan matches Lethe's base Atk but doubles everything. At best, he rapes her in offense even at base level in Chapter 16. What are you trying to prove? I don't see defensive problems for Stefan. The first guy that 2RKO's him at BASE level is in Chapter 22. The first guy that 2RKO's him with the Vague Katti at BASE level is a boss in Chapter 24. Pretty cool stuff. This is also assuming that the first time I field him is Chapter 22/24 because I'm a complete moron and I refuse to field the best units on my team. This is the first time where you've actually addressed the fact that this is Lethe vs. Stefan, not Lethe vs. no Lethe. Congrats, you're getting better at this! Yes, Lethe at level 7 does have the same raw Def as Stefan with the Vague Katti. But that's the thing. Lethe is a bit better at defense while Stefan is miles and away better at offense. This is after Stefan has just joined the party (no training) and Lethe has been present since Chapter 10. If A > B at one thing but B >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A at another, it stands to reason that B >>> A, no? Chapter 15: Stefan - Level 8 Swordsman - S Swords Vague Katti: 31 Att Iron Blade: 28 Att Lethe - Level 7 Cat Claws: 28 Att Not my fault you can't read properly. A buyable sword (in Chapter 16) gives Stefan the same Att as Lethe. Any sword with rank C+ or a Steel Sword with a 2+ MT forge on it tops Lethe's attack. I fail to see how Lethe is "better than Stefan at offense until silver weapons come around". First off, the Iron Blade ONLY has 9 MT. I don't understand why you believe that a D level sword is so amazing when the actual good stuff is starting to appear now (anything C level and up). Second point. Kieran does not hamper the team at any point. Lethe does. Lethe either has transformation problems and is doing squat for half of a battle or she's taking a valuable resource from better units who (on top of flat out being better than Lethe) use the resource better than her. Lethe might have an offense but we either derive units of the Demi Band who use it better than her or we have a useless unit for 50% of the battle. Last I checked, Meg isn't in high tier for her abilities to shove/smite (if she can do the latter, I don't play RD so I don't know). So Lethe is good. Sababa. You're still missing the point. You're not supposed to be trying to prove if Lethe is a good unit or not. You're supposed to be trying to prove that she's better than Stefan. First off, next time you try crying foul, make sure that I'm actually guilty of the charge. I generously gave Stefan only level 16 and not 18 against a level 16 Lethe who can't gain Exp if she's untransformed on the battlefield. Second point. Since when is Lethe the second best unit on the field? Ever? Titania's better than her. Mordecai's better than her. That's two units better than her the second she joins. Rolf, Ilyana and Soren are all better units to fight Chapter 12 Ravens with. So where are you coming up with this nonsense? If all I need is 30 Att to send everything on a one-way ticket to Timbucktoo, what makes 33 Att so much more special? This is why you are not a good debator, Snowy. I don't get bonus points for giving Stefan more Att than he needs. You just don't seem to get that, though. PS: And no, Naesala is in Chapter 19. I'm talking about Chapter 18. Lethe transforms on Turn 1. Lethe transforms back on Turn 5. There's no reason for her to have the Demi Band for the start of any battle. So now, let's field Muarim and Lethe. Muarim will hold the Demi Band until Turn 5 and then he'll trade it to Lethe. Now we have 1 Cat and 1... oh wait, Muarim's back to 0 guage and is in Laguz form instead of Tiger? Oops. Guess we still have a useless unit on the field. If we give Lethe the DB from the start, we sacrifice her stats pointlessly. If we try to get cute, we still end up with a unit that can't attack and can't do anything on the field. That's why Muarim and Mordecai are both better recepients of the DB than Lethe. Sure, they sacrifice their stats as well. But it doesn't matter since both are still superior to a non DB Lethe. You need to handicap Stefan so Lethe can tie? I thank you for forfeiting an argument you couldn't win, real sportsman-like of you. Credit to GJ for the actual wording but fuck it, we both know how stupid your comment is. That's like saying "if Elves didn't have any tech, Orcs would steamroll them". I was going to use a sports analogy but hell, I thought a Warcraft 3 one might resonate more with you. I didn't know how to answer this so I went to #feto for a solution. Be happy, Paperblade wanted to insult you for your stance on gay marriage. We've got to stop here. What are you trying to prove at this point? That Lethe is better than Stefan? How are you doing that? Lethe's offense is at best equal to Stefan holding an Iron Blade and this is when she's transformed. Her defense is barely better than Stefan's and Stefan is already at a point where his defense makes him a monster. And then Lethe has transformation problems when Stefan DOESN'T. You can address ways to HELP those problems but you still forget the fact that even if Lethe was a Cat for 100% of the game with no penalties, Stefan is statistically better from the moment that he joins until Ashnard hits the ground. As I mentioned above, you proved Lethe is usable. I proved Stefan is better than Lethe. Debate over.

Against my better judgment, I shall start creating a new mafia game for when I have constant internet. Slide me in.

Best: FE6 Chapter 14. By a country mile. Worst: I absolutely hate FE5 2x. It's not bad, it's just BORING.

Draw a dickwolf.

I'm still calling Mike as the winner. Ome keeps shooting themselves in the foot while Zap has been incredibly unlucky. I'd love to see a Rob/Grant/Natalie/Ashley/Andrea endgame IF G/N/As weren't trying to give Rob the win a la Stephanie LaGrossa. But that's not going to happen if you ask me (and if Mike is smart). If I was Mike, I'd offer Andrea a Final 4 deal with the ability that she can lambaste him in front of the jury if he doesn't keep his word. This is already much better than anything that Rob can offer Andrea since I have no doubt that Rob won't even let her make the Final 6, never mind Final 4. That basically hooks Andrea for good and Zap can knock out anyone they choose on Ome, even with that HII that Rob still holds. Simple.

I'm gone for a week and we have banners?!

I know! I always thought that Obama was a white man with brown paint on himself but now I'm sure of it!

Apparently Israelis are murdering bastards. Apparently. NOW, GIVE ME 10 BROWN BABIES SO I CAN BATHE IN THEIR BLOOD TONIGHT!

Israelis are also brown, fyi. I hope you're not being serious with that joke for your own sake.

Basically, I'm alive. Hiya.

To be honest, I haven't OK'd Lightning's game because it's pretty shit (the balance of power).

1. Efficiency for turns is bullshit. Crawling 60 meters in 6 hours to ensure that nobody dies to 1HKO bullets is the way to go. 2. This shit is kicking my ass mentally and physically and I love it. 1 1/2 year service, here I come!

AUTO SIGNUP... Oh shit. Can't. Seriously, army keeps me from the internet 2 weeks at a time.

Just saying, you should make all screenshots a banned offense with more of a penalty than just a single godkill. The whole point of the game is trust or mistrust in words. Showing a picture of your role or of other people's roles (a la Xeld's Fuck Tiger) defeats the purpose of the game complete. Not a shot at Xeld, just a comment in general. People here might start getting bright ideas. Also, I'm not a hidden player and I have mentioned that I'm going to the army tomorrow. If you have me on Facebook (which actually is a grand total of 1 person), that should be proof enough.

You joined a month ago and you're an attention whore. I hate you. Leave.

I'm making the formal offer now (since Bizz sorta offered it on MSN). Bizz, if you'd like me to take over the list and try to keep it updated, I can do that. However, I'm joining the army in a week and don't know what my internet privileges are there. Probably not much for obvious reasons.

I'm in Revenge of the SANDS (a game that I care about since I had to be subbed out of the original SANDS), running UN Mafia, trying to get 39 Clues Mafia ready and also in Diplomacy. Yep, no chance I'm signing up. Sorry JB, I just prefer Smogon (I also don't have to beat the fact that I'm not always mafia into people's heads there).

Wow. A Fuck Tiger. Didn't expect to see one here. That was well played, Xeld. Well played.