[Fixing Fates story issues (spoilers)]

Honestly, if Hydra wasn't part of the story, I think Fates would have been a lot better. Hydra could still exist, but as a already dead ancestor of the royals, so they could use dragon vein. I also thought Touma was a missed opportunity.

This is what I think could have happened if Hydra had no role in the story and if Touma had more focus. I marked it as spoilers, since it's pretty long.

-Garon is alive and not a slime monster to make him a antagonist you can sympathize.
-Kamui is blood-related to Sumeragi and the Hoshido siblings.
-Aqua can be a Nohrian princess by birth to keep the counterpart theme, but I think she'd still be a Touma princess living at Touma since her father wasn't killed and her mother never married Garon. She can be third route-exclusive and maybe appear for one or two scenes in Nohr and Hoshido as a minor character but never reveal that she's a princess.
-Aqua isn't a main character in Nohr or Hoshido, so this can give more screen time and development to the other royal siblings.
-Kamui doesn't get the dark magic sword that blows up the capital. Mikoto can stay alive or die in a different way. Many Hoshidan citizens are happy to get Kamui back, but there are others who are suspicious of his Nohr upbringing and think Kamui returning might "corrupt" Hoshido's royal family so an bowman would try to assassinate Kamui but Mikoto sees it and lets the arrow hit her instead. Mikoto dies because staves seem to work only in gameplay but not in cutscenes. The assassin is executed, and likewise, there are some Hoshidans who blame Kamui for Mikoto's death and others who don't blame Kamui and thought it was a noble death.
(In the game, I found it weird that Takumi is the only one who gets mad at Kamui for Mikoto's death and the other deaths at the capital. After that chapter, none of the characters mention it.)
-Chapter 6 takes places at the ravine area. In Nohr or Hoshido, Kamui could go back to the country they sided with safely. In the third path, Kamui is being cornered by Nohr and Hoshido troops and ends up accidentally falling into the ravine, discovering Touma and meeting Aqua. Both Nohr and Hoshido thinks Kamui died.
-Touma is not a dead country and has their own army and culture, instead of being a rehash of undead Nohr and Hoshido generics. Along with Aqua, other Touma characters would be playable.
-Touma citizens can leave the ravine and travel to the other countries, but not many do. Most of them prefer being an isolated country underground. The Touma curse still exists, but something enacted by a royal Touma heirloom in order to make sure that citizens who leave Touma don't talk about it to outsiders and keep Touma an isolated, unknown country to the rest of the world. Like a more extreme version of the Fire Tribe's beliefs about solitude. At least other countries know the Fire Tribe exists. Not in Touma's case.
-And since FE is still a JRPG and seems to want to stick with a mythical being who wants world domination to be the main antagonist, maybe Touma knows that a powerful, god-like creature underground is planning to take over the world, but also knows they can't defeat it by themselves without the Fire Emblem and need help. No dragon final bosses please - too overused in FE.
-Aqua becomes a main character in this route and actually has character development. She is torn between keeping Touma isolated or ending the curse and interact with other nations and asking them for help in defeating the creature, which is why she leaves the ravine a few times to get an understanding of the outside world, hence, why you get to meet her in Nohr or Hoshido paths. She is indecisive and is also hesitant on trusting outsiders, but after meeting Kamui, becomes more sure that being isolated is not helping Touma.
-Kamui is an outsider in Touma, so his role is to prove to them that interacting with outsiders isn't so bad. The king is suspicious of Kamui and outsiders, but eventually convinced and removes the curse because Touma is going to be dead soon if they don't get help. Kamui along with Aqua and co. goes up and meets with the Nohr and Hoshido siblings to tell them about the creature and that they have to work together in order to defeat it. Everyone is shocked Kamui is alive and doesn't believe what he or Aqua says.
-Of course, they are somehow eventually convinced and decides to temporarily work together to defeat the creature. While they do, Nohr and Hoshido soldiers bond, they realize their enemies aren't as bad as they thought, which leads to them signing some peace treaty after the creature is defeated. Touma soldiers also bond with them and Touma becomes an allied country of both/or stay neutral but trades with them, ending their isolation.
-In the Nohr path, Garon lives and Hoshido gets annexed into Nohr. In Hoshido path, Garon dies and Hoshido makes Nohr agree not to invade again through treaty and helps Nohr with the starvation problem in exchange for Nohr's ore and materials since their armor seems way better for defense, considering many characters in Hoshido are like glass canons compared to Nohr. And Touma is an ignored and unknown country in both routes.

Kamui would lose his dragon transformation, which I don't mind tbh. It bothered me that it has focus for one chapter and no importance later. The Nohr siblings don't even react to it at all. It was also a big giveaway for me that Kamui wasn't related to the Hoshido siblings even before the game was released.

[Which side has better class options?]

As much as I love Nohr's classes and the medieval European based designs, I have to go with Hoshido. The ancient Japanese theme is pretty refreshing. One thing I liked about Fates was that the countries had very different armor, names, etc, which can't really be said for most FE games where the characters look as if they could fit in any of the other nations on the continent.

[Best child?]

I like all the royals' kids, Shigure, Shara (better than Tharja, really like her support with Kanna), Ignis, Matoi, Hisame, Ophelia, Kinu and Gurei.

The only problem I have with the royals is Siegbert's name... Because srsly, it's obvious Marx named his own son after his favorite sword.

I loved Velour and Eponine's designs, but not their supports. Centers too much on their gimmicks. Flannel at least had depth outside of his "treasure collection" and there's little to no focus on Eponine's Robin Hood trait outside of Zero's support, but I thought her supports were funny, especially her mom's.

[Topic of Marriage, Supports, and Children.]

I'm interested in seeing more of Asama's translated supports. I think he's a refreshing character.

I liked Kanna and Shara's support. Probably pairing them together. I thought B was a tad creepy, but A and S more than made up for it.

I don't like the "stalker" trait Tharja and Shara has, but they have some really good supports.

I actually really like Tsukuyomi. He acts pretty mature when he's not focused on being seen as a grown-up ironically (like his support with Hinoka), but the fact that he looks AND is much younger than most of his potential wives bothers me.

[(Spoilers) Story Portrayal of the Older Brothers]

There's a spoiler warning in the title, so I don't think spoiler tags are needed. Everything after this has spoilers.

I've seen a lot of threads about Kamui and Aqua in the story, but I've yet to find a detailed one one about the big brothers. I say it's safe to say that they are supposed to be the important main characters after Kamui and Aqua. The moment of choice in chapter 6 revolves around which brother wins the battle to get Kamui back. They have more dialogue time than their other siblings, and in Nohr or Hoshido, it's a battle against them before battling the final enemy. In Invisible Kingdom, it's a central point in the plot that the two brothers get along, so that Nohr and Hoshido can work together to bring down the real threat.

I don't dislike either of them. In fact, I do like both Marx and Ryouma judging on their supports alone. They have great designs too. But story-wise, I feel that they're... (can't really find the right word) lacking.

Anyone else think the story portrayal of them was flawed and underdeveloped?

This is what I think. Keep in mind that this is just all my interpretation.

The game keeps throwing in our faces about Marx's blind loyalty to Garon, but why is never explained well, if at all. Is it because he truly thinks that Garon will change after claiming Hoshido or that he can't bring himself to go against Garon because of the good father figure he once was? I guess this can be blamed how little info we get about the past Garon. But he had to have been a good father when the siblings were very young at least because of Leon's support with Elise, but if not, then Marx's blind loyalty makes zero sense for me due to his character.

The other siblings seem to blindly follow Garon out of self-preservation. It seems Camilla and Leon knows that Garon will execute them if they fail even if they're his children and this is a driving force for them to battle Kamui, as seen in Leon's conversation with Kamui after beating him in Hoshido and Camilla's convo after beating her soldiers in IK. And Elise appears scared of Garon, just more obvious about it than the others.

With Marx, it's different. His loyalty seems like the real deal and didn't result because of fear. He seems to genuinely think that things will turn out alright if he keeps following Garon's orders. Why? That's the question. It's just that because it's not explained well, Marx seems like a bad first prince. He truly wants what's good for the Nohrian people, but his blind loyalty to Garon is questionable, and it's not explained why. In fact, it's pretty hypocritical for him to say that he's doing it for the good of Nohr when it's quite obvious that Garon is being all but a good king to Nohr.

Ryouma is treated by the story, especially Hoshido, like the perfect role model of a older brother/first prince that his siblings and people look up to, but hey, he's still flawed. I think he is reckless. The most notable moment about would be his role in Chevalier in Hoshido. He goes there to get more support for Hoshido in the battle against Nohr, which is understandable, but the game shows it like he went there by himself ALONE. Yeah, he blends in with a disguise, but come on, he's the first prince. I know he knows how important his life is to Hoshido judging by his retreat quote.

He leaves behind Saizou (I don't think it's clear in the game, but he "disappears" in front of Saizou, but unlike with Takumi's disappearance, it's not explained at all) and tells Kagerou to tell the others about his whereabouts in Chevalier. He could have least kept Kagerou with him and sent a messenger instead. I guess this an excuse to get her to be a playable character at a earlier chapter. But he's basically without his best bodyguards and goes to Chevalier by himself. Huh?

This, this alone makes this a reckless, maybe even plain stupid plan. If it's about raising suspicions about him being a prince among the rebels, the writers could have still brought Saizou and Kagerou with him. They are highly-capable NINJA. Stealth is their specialty and protecting Ryouma is their duty. I bet they can pull off disguises, not raise suspicions AND protect Ryouma with no sweat. Saizou joining Kamui as early as he did is also like an excuse for him to be playable earlier. I don't think it would have detracted the story at all if he was with Ryouma. Orochi is already there to tell Kamui that Ryouma disappeared. Saizou being there is redundant. Also, Saizou has no appearance in the story after this chapter even when meeting Ryouma again. Takumi get's a little scene with his retainers when they're reunited. What about Ryouma's retainers? Nope. It's like all the story development goes to Takumi and Kamui while the other siblings are just there.

Now, all this would have been fine if someone pointed out Ryouma's recklessness. NO ONE does. The siblings are just so happy to be reunited, and I guess the player is supposed to see this as a good plan because all's well in the end? Well, I don't. It was still a crappy plan.

Also, when facing King Garon, Ryouma tries to negotiate with him. Uhm, the guy killed his father, was the mastermind of the sword explosion that killed Mikoto and other citizens, and even Nohr's citizens and royals are suffering under his reign, what makes him think negotiations are going to help? Instead, he gives Garon an opening to attack, and Ryouma is defeated by a fireball.

Seriously, if Ryouma wanted to negotiate, do it sooner! Like, before fighting a series of battles into Nohr to face Garon? Has he ever heard of messengers? I know he does since that's how he knew Sakura and Hinoka were being attacked by faceless.

Ryouma's other flaw is his favoritism toward Kamui. Now, this could be applied to other siblings, but I think it makes the least sense from Ryouma, especially in the Nohr route. Yes, he knew Kamui when he was young, but that was when he was young. He didn't grow up with Kamui and knows that Kamui was raised by an enemy nation. He takes his duties as first prince seriously, so why, why is he not the slightest bit wary about Kamui like Takumi was? Even if Ryouma was very subtle at it, then I would be satisfied about it, but no, complete trust just like that. Hinoka is just the overprotective sister and grew up as a warrior to get Kamui back, so I understood her trust of Kamui. Takumi is already wary of Kamui. Sakura makes sense too since she comes off as young, naive girl who's kind to everyone pretty much.

In Nohr, Kamui's betrayal even after Mikoto's sacrifice should have rang a ton of alarm bells. Instead, you see Ryouma trying to get Kamui back not once, but twice (Ch 6 and 12), and overall, he's still a kind pretty kind character to Kamui considering they're enemies in a war. Take Ch.17 for example and the forgiveness scene. I think the whole Ryouma and Takumi forgiving Kamui is BS. Kamui betrayed them even after Mikoto's sacrifice and helped invade Hoshido and slaughtered their citizens. In Nohr, Kamui doesn't deserve ANY of their forgiveness. Yeah, Kamui spared the sisters, but the brothers and a lot of Hoshidans are dead and things would have turned out better for them if Kamui didn't betray them in the first place, so yeah, the forgiveness part is BS. At least Marx and Elise grew up with Kamui and know that their father is wrong, so the forgiveness thing makes sense there.

Even when siding with Nohr, Marx shows some distrust toward Kamui and even accuses them of betraying Nohr when Kamui tries to convince the siblings that Garon is a slime monster. So, ironically Marx is more wary of Kamui, so why can't the writers have more Ryouma show some more lack of trust if they aren't afraid to do so with Marx?

If they focused a little less on Kamui and Aqua, I think we'd get more development on Marx and Ryouma, who I think are just as important to the game's story, but is treated as minor-ish characters to give more limelight to Kamui and Aqua. The older brothers show up in chapters often, but it's more to show the player that they're still there and doesn't contribute a whole lot to the story. Kamui and Aqua, IMO, are more suited for the more minor character roles like the other siblings rather than be the very main characters, but I'm not here to debate about that, I'm just wondering if anyone else thinks that the portrayal of Marx and Ryouma in the story is lacking/flawed.

Edit: Wow, didn't realize I wrote so much. Sorry for the long post.

[why would girls wear their armor and forget their pants?]

Nohr classes seem to have a battle panty syndrome.

Have they honestly ever applied any type of real-world common sense into a video game?No character in Fire Emblem has broken any limbs when they should have.This is basically the same thing.

And imagine on a wyvern/undead wyvern.They also have scales.

Yeah, video games usually break the laws of physics. But if there's one class I'm bothered with in having battle panties, it's those who ride wvyerns. They have sharp/hard scales. Sounds painful.

Charlotte.

(Then again, fighters have poor defense)

I'm not bothered and don't care about fanservice usually, but man, Charlotte's design bugs me. It's more of the Fighter class's design than her though. Who thought just wearing shoulder/collar armor and exposing your vitals was a good idea? No wonder Fighters have poor defense. I'd prefer it if fighters didn't wear any armor at all than random shoulder armor. It just looks weird to me.

[(SPOILERS) Ending of Invisible Kingdom]

This is about IK's ending, so be warned, there are spoilers.

But I'll spoiler tag anyway.

Was just browsing FE fanfics when I saw this tumblr post with this translated text about Kamui's ending in IK:

Kamui seals themselves in the Invisible Kingdom after the events of the plot:

MEID_その後_Normal_プレイヤー男_透魔: 戦後、透魔王として国を治める。\n無限渓谷の底は閉じられ、かつての\n透魔の地はハイドラの亡骸と共に\n永久に封印されることとなった。\n透魔、暗夜、白夜は固い絆で結ばれ、\n平和な夜明けの時代は永く続いた。

After the war, he ruled the country as the Phantom King. He closed the bottom of the Infinite Ravine, becoming sealed for eternity within the land that was once the Invisible Kingdom alongside Hydra’s remains. The Invisible Kingdom, Nohr, and Hoshido were tied together with firm bonds, and continued into an lengthy era that saw the dawning of peace.

Link source: here

My comments about it:

I think I'm overthinking this, but I find this kinda... pointless.

If IK is sealed, then how the heck does Kamui rebuild the kingdom? Isn't that the whole point of Kamui taking over the crown, to rebuild IK? I mean, there are only a few people alive there (I think, not sure), and it's mostly filled with undead/possessed soldiers. If other countries don't have access to it, then how do you repopulate it? I was thinking that people from Nohr or Hoshido would migrate there, but if it's sealed, then that's not possible. Kamui is basically a ruler of a utterly dead country. And if you ask me, a ruler of a country with no people is not really a ruler at all. I think I remember his epilogue also including how his reign was a great era of peace. Like, what did he do to achieve this era if there's practically no people and no foreign relations.

Azura/Aqua also stays with Kamui no matter who she's paired up with. That means they both don't see their siblings again after IK is sealed, which is kinda depressing. Which also means that if their spouses stay with them, they won't be able to see their families/friends/places in other countries. Also depressing.

And what's with the firm bonds between all three countries? If IK is sealed, that means they don't interact afterwards... ever. Maybe they're referring to Kamui's sibling relationship with the others or the combined efforts in defeating Hydra. Idk.

And why seal the chasm in the first place? Hydra's dead, so did they seal it just so that Hydra's corpse won't reanimate or something. What. I don't get it.

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding this. I'm not fluent in Japanese, so I don't know much about the epilogues, just going off of some translations I read.

[Favorite generic Class Portrait]

It's hard to choose for Hoshido because the designs are good but I have to go with Elite Ninja. The doll is just creepy and awesome. The worse is Holy Bowman. I would have preferred a different hat, even the same as the Bowman's.

For Nohr, best is Revenant Knight. Worse is Fighter's. I know fighters don't have the best defense, but the design's got armor in the wrong places and doesn't like pleasing aesthically either. I also don't like the lancer's hat.

I think the only design that I preferred from Awakening would be pegasus warrior's outfit, but Hoshido's still looks good too.

[Character Hate Thread]

^Pretty much that.

While Ninian is overall nothing special as a character and was mostly there to fuel the plot (though "damsel in distress" is a bit of an understatement; they were trying to rescue Ninian and Nils), Aqua was hyped-up, got a bunch of shipping with M!Kamui by the plot, ... and she's only there to do provide plot fuel. Aqua is utterly "mysterious" for 2/3 of the routes; heck, she doesn't even have a real relationship with a character (Ninian and Nils had their moments together). Plus, when Aqua's done parroting exposition/delivering a convoluted plan, she just dissapears until needed again.

I would say both Lyn and Miciah fall under "wasted potential"; I'm fine with Lyn, but not fine with the way she was handled.

They overdid her mysteriousness. I don't mind mysterious characters, but the way they did Aqua's was just bad. She's there to spew exposition when Kamui needs explaining. And to make it worse, for a character that's meant to seem wise or at least smarter than Kamui, she makes the dumbest plans that Kamui, who has almost zero leadership qualities btw, follows no matter what. Her existence in all three routes just give the story more plot holes than it already has, since she knows everything.

I thought Lyn was handled decently. Micaiah was good until all the attention went to Ike.

[Is Camilla a psychopath? (story spoilers)]

Not a psychopath but definitely mentally unstable. No one talks about murder-suicide if someone they love leaves them unless they have some serious issues. I understand that Camilla uses Kamui as an emotional crutch but I find it kind of hard to believe. Why not any of her other siblings, whom she is more likely to see since Kamui spent most of his life locked in that castle?

This is something I never quite understood. This isn't explained in her supports either. 99.99% of the time, Camilla's dotes on Kamui rather than any of her other siblings. If I didn't know better, I would have thought she didn't care about the others.

[Your reasoned opinion on "canon" pairings]

I usually like canon pairings, but Oboro x Takumi just doesn't click with me, which is weird because I wanted Chrom and Cordelia to be paired together in Awakening.

Kamui x Azura is not a bad pairing, but...

The blood-relation cousin thing kinda turns me off. I have nothing against cousin marriages and know it's legal in some countries, but it's just not my cup of tea. The sibling S supports bug me too. I can't imagine marrying a cousin, much less a sibling. Not being blood-related, but Kamui growing up thinking they were is just too incest-y for my taste. And the younger siblings still calling Kamui their onee/nii-san in the storyline after S support, marriage, AND having kids is just too creepy to me.

And as for canon pairings, besides Kamui x Azura, wouldn't Joker x Kamui be one too since he's so "devoted" or...?

I feel that is Kamui x Suzukaze is more canon than with Joker, though maybe biased since I like him more than Joker who's character concept I like, but many of his supports are bad because he's too much of jerk.

I mean, Suzukaze betrays his nation to side with you in Nohr and he dies depending if you get a A support with him or not.

@Sunwoo

I don't think there are canon pairings until it's explicitly stated either. Having canon pairings in a game where you can pair up anyone with whoever you want is just a bad, bad idea.

[Character Hate Thread]

I think the problem with the scene was more in the execution (poor word choice) than it being totally unreasonable.

She sets herself on fire and then gives a long speech...hardly reacting to the fact that she is burning to death. I'm not even quite sure how someone from the ice tribe can summon a fire that can't be extinguished. Another point against the scene is how it compares to similar scenarios. Usually when a character is fighting you against their will, you will get a chance to spare them and after they explain themselves they join you. For Flora, after she explains herself, she immediately jumps to suicide. By the time you reach that point in the Hoshido campaign, it wouldn't be hard to put the ice tribe in Hoshido's protection so Flora's suicide seems forced and a cheap way to get tears from the player.

Pretty much. I thought the fire thing was dumb. She controls ice, not fire, so how can she make a fire that can't be put out? No explanation given about this either. Her long speech while dying reminds me of another character death in another game. The character literally talks for 15 minutes straight without difficulty of breathing while having severe wounds and then suddenly keels over and dies. These kind of deaths are one of the worse ways to make the player emotional imo.

[Topic of Marriage, Supports, and Children.]

Eponine/Grey had a super unconventional S Support, but I kinda liked it. I'm kind of curious what their paired ending is now.

I thought this was a funny support but the S support really didn't feel like an S support. The confession felt random, rushed and added at the last second.

[New Interview with Kozaki.]

If Hinoka is Kozaki's favorite character, then that's pretty ironic considering she gets the least love of the royals in both the game and in the fanbase.

Kozaki's drawings on tumblr are fantastic. The anatomy and proportions seem to be better than in-game and the outfits look great and seem to fit within the time period. Bet the armor he draws would be nice too. It would be great if the game series go with his outfit designs in the next game.

[Grey morality in Fates and where/how to insert/enhance it. (possible spoilers)]

The one thing I liked about in Awakening (despite its mess of a story), is Robin's character. Some view his actions as laziness from the writers, though I prefer to think that he IS that immoral, with no qualms at all about killing enemies. Ricken and Henry and Gaius and Libra had various degrees of discussing the horrors of war, yet Robin's straightforward about eliminating the enemies to gain advantage when the risk is not too high (like in M!Robin and Severa's support). Not once does he consider the idea of mercy, which is somewhat reflected in the players' actions of killing all for maximum exp, and M!Robin is called out on in his support with Walhart after all.

Contrast this with Kamui who is a straight-up goody two-shoes and if to believed about Nohr's story

manages to fight several battles WITHOUT killing, wtf?

To make the story with more grey morality, I would probably start with Kamui. Sure, make him/her an idealist in the beginning, but then slowly whittle that away from them.

Completely agreed with this.

How the heck do you win multiple battles without killing anyone? Does the soldiers just avoid swinging their weapons at ALL the enemies' vital points or what. If an enemy is trying to kill you, trying to avoid killing them in a fight is difficult as hell. Doesn't make sense.

I'm still kinda lost on the dukedoms and their relationships with the two kingdoms.

I think Fuuma is a neutral country/faction or something. Fates doesn't do a good job with explaining the countries and geography. All I know for sure is that Nohr and Hoshido are neighboring countries.

[Show off your Kamui!]

Name: Estellize

Kingdom: Nohr

Birthday: 2/31

Secondary Class: Witch

Asset: HP

Flaw: HP

Spouse: Syalla

BIO: A serious expression that belies an unbelievable streak of stupidity and recklessness. Estellize once nearly burned down the entire Kingdom in an attempt to get a cup of water. She switches the positioning of her bra and panties in an attempt to confuse her enemies. She threw all pregnant woman into the otherwordly gate and was shocked when they returned with fully grown children, whom she then immediately put on the front lines. She spent Nohr's entire gold supply on bronze swords because she believed that having more swords than your enemies automatically made you stronger than them. She made it to the finals of the national spelling bee, but lost when asked to spell the name of her country, and after several minutes ended up spelling 'Mars Bitch'. Despite all of that, she has the full support of her country and her soldiers. Described as the miracle child, she has managed to get her soldiers through many hardships literally without a scratch, as well as make allies out of the most monstrous enemies. Just don't call her a tactician, she thinks its a sexual euphemism. The one most likely to build a functional muffin button.

No words to describe how amazing this bio is. Really helps that I can imagine Kamui doing this in the actual game too.

[What do you think about FE:If's 3 path stories?]

All 3 routes have problems, but I say Conquest is the worst while Hoshido is the best, but "best" here just means ok, nothing amazing.

I think the idea of choosing a side could have made a great plot, but like others said, the execution is just awful, and the third route just made the other routes seem meaningless. If the other routes had better story execution, then it would have been alright, but they didn't.

But at least the characters and supports seem more fleshed out than Awakening's, and the gameplay is improved.

[How do you feel about Setsuna?(spoilers)]

Yup, she's meant to be those characters with hilarious supports. Sadly, I don't find her that interesting even though her design is great. The character trait of falling into pitfalls all the time gets old pretty fast for me.

[Surprising Supports]

Yeah, Saizou's support with Hinoka was awful. Suspecting Saizou of all people, seriously. There were other characters that were way more suspicious than Saizou. I also liked Saizou's support with Charlotte, and at least the S support wasn't that bad compared to others.

I liked a lot of Lazward's, Charlotte's, and Oboro's supports. Surprising, since I didn't really like Inigo from Awakening and I had a bad impression of the last two b/c of how they were advertised before the game came out. Mozume's supports are also really good.

I thought Oboro and Belka was going to be a fun support, but it turns out to be one of the best supports and some backstory is always good.

[Flora VS Felicia]

I like Flora more because character development is always a plus in my book, but I like Felicia too, though not very fond of the clumsy cliche and why she is still employed as a maid irks me. Couldn't they gave them different jobs? Flora is more suited as a maid and Felicia is better as a guard.

If both of their roles were switched in the story, I wonder how different people's opinions would be.

[Character Hate Thread]

I think there's issues with the story concerning Gunther.

In IK, it's revealed he had a wife and child killed by Garon's orders. If I remember correctly, he wasn't able to support Kamui or anyone else in IK, but was able to support Kamui in Conquest, so I checked out the supports. The supports were fine, except for one. The S support with female Kamui. There is no mention of his dead wife and child. Isn't this important info to tell his new wife? And just to make it worse, Gunther said Kamui was the only one he loved in his entire life. Uh, hello, Gunther? What about your dead wife and kid?! Are you ever going to mention them?!

The Gunther in Conquest contradicts the one in IK. IK shows Gunther as someone who had a grudge because his wife and child was killed for an unnamed reason, so he obviously agonizes over their deaths, so what's with the flippant romancing option in Conquest? If Kamui can't support him in IK, then he shouldn't in Conquest, or at least just take out the S support because it just contradicts his character. Is IS so focused on having as many marriage candidates for Kamui that they are feeling to lower character/story quality for it? Apparently so. By not telling about his past, it makes Gunther some shallow guy who didn't care enough about his dead wife and child, unlike how he is in IK.

Whoever played the game unspoiled and decided to romance in Gunther in Conquest is going to be shocked when they play IK and find out about Gunther's past. Like couldn't they mention Gunther's past at least in the S support? I think mentioning it could have been beneficial to the story if you ask me, could have been a small hint to the events of IK. I don't think it would have spoiled anything, it's not weird for characters to talk about their pasts in the supports. And what, were they afraid that players would be turned off by characters being widows and already had a kid? What's wrong with that? It's not like it's condemned in the game since Sumeragi and Garon both got remarried. And if some people don't like it, then they don't have to romance him. Simple as that. In IK, Gunther becomes evil/possessed suddenly out of nowhere and later in the chapter we discover why, but hey, I feel that there was like no foreshadowing at all beforehand. At least there was with Takumi's possession, but Gunther's? Not really. But that's just how I feel about it. Rant over.

[Do you think they'll rewrite the story in the dub and upcoming Manga?]

The plot holes/twists in Conquest and IK are pretty bad. RD's twists were better than Fates imo.

In Conquest, Azura and Kamui were at the IK for a short time, which is how they got Gunther back. Azura could have used this time to avoid the curse and tell Kamui about the IK being the source of the war. What does she do? She just tells Kamui that they are at the IK and they head back to the surface with Gunther in tow and go along with the invasion of Hoshido like nothing happened. What's with this logic?! And I find it so hard to believe that Azura would so willingly help Kamui invaded Hoshido when she was raised there and treated nicely by the citizens. Sure she was kicked out later by Hoshido soldiers, but Ryoma and the other siblings tried to help her out. She backstabs them first chance she gets, making her seem very disloyal. It makes more since with Kamui since Kamui was raised in Nohr, but Azura? Plus, she already knows about the true cause of the war, so it makes it even worse.

In IK, Azura and Kamui can't say anything about the IK and try to tell the siblings to help them without telling them why. This plot twist was contrived but can work if executed properly, but it wasn't. The siblings trusted Kamui fully way to quickly after they showed in Ch 6 that they weren't siding with either. Not only that, it still makes no sense why Azura didn't say anything in Conquest when they were at the IK.

Honestly, if Azura was clueless like Kamui was, maybe the story would have turned out a lot better.

[Topic of Marriage, Supports, and Children.]

Here's Asama/Hinoka.

It's certainly... interesting. I have pretty mixed feelings about this one. Someone might want to double-check some of the phrasing though.

I'm pretty disappointed in their S rank. It's just... ehh. It's a bit of a shame since Asama's supports were good so far.

I thought the support was pretty good, though a little mixed about the A one. The S support was ok. I'm more lenient on S supports since so many S supports in the game are rushed.

Leon and Zero's support was surprisingly good!

Nice to read more on their backstory of how they met. I wonder why Zero snuck in the castle? He was a thief, so I'm guessing he was there to steal something until he was betrayed.

Also read Belka and Zero's supports. It was pretty good, but unfortunately the S support feels like it came from nowhere too.

[Ryoma Discussion Thread]

Trust me, my dear you did not want see what was written in Ryoma's page, it wasn't pretty...it really wasn't pretty.

Someone over at TVtropes really hated Ryoma and Hoshido and wanted to make the Nohr sibilings look perfect,

And as why they are calling him hot-blooded, Ryoma really IS hot-blooded, he just the subdued type of hot-blooded.

And, suprisingly, he's also incredibly romantic, seriously, read Shinomone's supports with his mother to see what I'm talking about, I did not expect Ryoma to be so sweet and loving to his wife.

Huh, I think I can see how Ryoma is hot-blooded. He just doesn't seem like it when compared to Saizou. I read those supports too, and yeah, didn't expect Ryoma to be so romantic.

[Character Love Thread]

Favorite Characters Shared? Kaze, for sure. Love all his supports. Mozume is great. I like Felicia and Jakob, too, though a few of their supports are awful. Gunter (love his support with Jakob).

Favorite Nohrians? Leon is the best Nohrian royal and probably best Nohr character. I like Elfie, Artur (hilarious guy), Belka, Zero, Odin, Luna, Lazward, and Elise.

Favorite Hoshidans? Ryoma, Takumi, Sakura, Hana, Nishiki, and Asama (he's a laid-back priest with an afro-like hairstyle).

Favorite Kids? Right now, Shigure's my top favorite. Also really like Shinonome, Syalla, Foleo, Velour, Kinu, Eponine, Ophelia, Mitama, and Kanna of course.

Favorite All-Round? Kaze, Mozume, Leon, Takumi, Ryoma, Asama, and Shigure.

Not sure if I'm forgetting anyone though.