Shephen

The moderate output for low input just comes from the fact that you can give base Hinata tonics and deploy him in any chapter between his join and chapter 23 and he will be able to contribute. If you actually train Hinata and give him exp he will pretty competent in the endgame thanks to his bulk/Trueblade/Armor Slayer/Master Katana. If you are looking to go a step further he would like to buddy seal Baki for Swallow Strike, or flounder around in Shura for Ogre Strike. In IK he isn't given any wiggle room to allow for reclassing to Peg or Shura, but if you train him, he won't be bad in late game IK since there are a variety of enemy types and you have a massive amount of weapons he can use. Nothing really good will comeout of training Hinata in IK, but he isn't really hurting you either.

They are mostly to variable so I would just leave them out.

Got that one backwards, if we are focusing on efficiency, guard stance/pair up is pretty much the only stance we will be talking about since its better than attack stance in pretty much 75% of every situations. The stat boosts from it are a lot, and then there is the dual gauge nullifying damage on basically every third attack. An example is Xander. Xander without Charlotte or even Luna pair up has to rely on others to orko/ohko, but when he has the pair up then he can just charge ahead and kill everything.

You don't even need to train everybody for chapter 10, just need a trained Kamui, Silas, and Zero and the rest of everyone can be at base and still make good contributions in chapter 10. I wouldn't even say Effie is even the best person for Arthur's pair up, Silas can take him for pretty great offense and Silas is more useful in the long run than Effie. Camilla can also take Arthur pair up and ohko a lot of things with hand-axes like Effie, but Camilla is better in like everything.

First comment in and I already massively disagree with pretty much everything you say lol. I would do something like this: Assuming Lunatic Nohr, efficiency, characters are in no particular order in their tier. ~~~ S Kamui Camilla Xander Azura A Silas Joker/Felicia(First joining) Elise Leo Zero Kaze B Luna Flannel Belka Elfie Asyura Jakob/Felicia(joining second) C Gunter Arthur Lazward Pieri Flora Izana Charlotte F Nyx Odin Benoit Mozume

I didn't use any of the rank/visitor or the link items. I did a +Str/-Luck Kamui and reclassed to Ninja right after chapter 7. He reached D Shurikens like 1 turn into chapter 9 and reached C by the end of chapter 10. The real reason I went Ninja was for 1-2 range, and +Str is able to muscle through the low might of Kuni fairly easily. Also helps in clearing chapter 10 quickly. +mag also works, but I'd rather sell the Spells you get for more tonics and forges, and Kuni forges can be used by Kaze and Saizou as well. Ryoma was basically carried by either Crimson(when he needed more str and bulk), Baki(when he just needed to fly somewhere) and Felicia(when he just needed to speed things up). You can get a lot of mobility mounts in Hoshido, but most of them aren't good for combat. Thankfully Ryoma covers about 75% of all the combat once he joins. Ryoma also doesn't want to lose his avoid/crit bonuses since it makes his enemy phase worse and he needs the crit to bust through Generals/Great Knights as well as some bosses. I used 2 Arm scrolls. 1 on Kamui for S-Kuni and B Swords, and another for Izana so he could reach B staves and use Misfortune of Sin against Garon and the final boss.

Yeah I went Paladin. Great Knight had lower move and Silas didn't need the extra offense or Luna. Pretty much everyone aside from Hinoka and Kamui got relegated to clean up duty once Ryoma and Crimson arrived. Silas was king of the clean up though. My other promotions/class changes since we are on the topic were Kamui -> Ninja ->Elite Ninja, Felicia ->Strategist->Bow Knight, Kaze/Saizou - Elite Ninja, Oboro -> Holy Lancer, Takumi -> Holy Bowman, Baki/Hinoka/Shigure - Falcon Knight. And that was pretty much it in terms of class changes. On the rerun I'll promote Saizou and Oboro at level 10 since they can help a lot in some routes/clean up and they don't actually need good stats to help in the late game since they have debuffs. Though insta-promoted Kagerou may be better than Saizou in LTC.

RIP Rinka in the next attempt though. I finished with an extra rescue charge so I can use that to get that 1 tile distance I need for the 1 turn of 24. Her pair up bonuses for Baki and Kaze where greatly appreciated though, but the exp needs to go to Hinoka and Kamui.

S, A, B, C, F sounds good. Maybe even a D tier.

In an absolute perfect run Ryoma's kill/battle ratio should only be 1 apart since Asyura in 22 has a Longbow to ruin his record. Silas actually does pretty well. Most of those loses were from 1x where he needed to charge ahead and weaken everything for Kamui. There were some other times where he needed to rescue Azura or a staffer and he needed the Guard Naginata to survive the enemy phase and that has terrible mt. But Open Assault and Hana pair up handle just about everything Silas needs in terms of combat stats.

Me and Gwimpage don't have any videos or anything up. Gwimpage has a google docs that has a google docs with his turn counts and item allocation. I have an old pastebin of when I did my preliminary run through and then another pastebin for combat records. My run through was pretty bad and I did of a lot of unnecessary things, had some poor exp distribution, and some times where I was just to lazy to redo a chapter for a lower turn count. When I go back I could probably save like 15 or 20 turns probably. I'll do a more detail log then when I go back. Should be pretty soon.

Low Turn Count. Pretty much just aiming to get the fastest clears possible for chapters. Its seeded on recruitment.

For main game purposes, Kagerou is easily the best. Hinata doesn't actually pair up well since he needs to keep his speed up, and Trueblade has one of the highest base speeds of 11 and then pretty much everything else is slower and not enough for him. He also doesn't want to lose his C-Swords and deal with crappy E weapons as his only weapon since it for the most part just kills his offense to the point you shouldn't really bother. The sole exception to this is the Elite Ninja class, which has similar bases and the same base 11 speed while also retaining Hinata's sword rank. Hinata shouldn't really reclass, but if he had to, Elite Ninja would be the class he would go to. He also helps jump start Kagerou's speed which is what she really needs to get going and her and Hana's pair up bonuses are really similar with the edge going to Kagerou. S-Support TrueBlade Hana gives +2 Str, +1 Skl, +7 Spd, +3 Luck, S Support Elite Ninja Kagerou gives +2 Str, +2 Skl, +5 Spd, +2 Res, and +1 Move. Hinata doesn't really give Hana anything she needs in terms of anything, while Kagerou really likes the +4 speed from Samurai boosts to start doubling stuff. No other really good options for Hinata since pretty much everyone else doesn't want him or Hinata doesn't want them. He would like the A+ with Baki though.

I know Gwimpage is currently working on a Nohr Lunatic LTC and he is almost done I believe(last I heard he was on chapter 26 pushing for a 6 turn). I did a preliminary LTC of Hoshido Lunatic just get a feel for things and where rescue charges get put to best use. I do plan on going back fairly soon for the super legit attempt, just not really satisfied with how I do on the pre-Ryoma chapters..

Hinata in Hoshido is an interesting unit. His bases are good enough where base Hinata with tonics can be moderately relevant up to chapter 23 where he then becomes useless. His speed after a tonic and while wielding a katana is in a weird phantom zone of doubling since the difference of speed between the unpromoted and promoted enemies is pretty great. For example, in chapter 16 base Hinata needs a speed tonic and katana to double the unpromoted enemies and to not get doubled by the promoted enemies, but he still gets doubled by the Hero anyways. Thankfully he grows enough where he needs to with good strength and bulk, just enough speed, and he has the Trueblade passives and some pretty good skills as well to keep up a good offense. If you're looking into some reclassing he would like to buddy seal Baki for 1 level of peg to get swallow strike and go back to Samurai. He also would like to reclass to Shura for Ogre Strike, but then go back to Trueblade. He shouldn't make the perma switch to Oni since it gives overkill bulk and kills his speed. Trained Hinata doesn't really stop being relevant when the late game comes around. Enemies in the late game are actually relatively sluggish in terms of AS and trained Hinata will usually have enough speed to double a good chunk of them and can get a Rally Speed to double the rest. He also has a good chuck of weaponry with the reverse katana, axe slayer, silver katana, armor slayer, wyrmslayer(granted it comes later than the rest) and even the Master Katana since he'll have the bulk to go against multiple enemies on EP. Its not the most amazing performance, but he can still function fairly well if you've been using him and equip him properly. Its funny how he is the exact opposite of Hana. She's a growth unit, he is a bases unit. She is made of glass, Hinata is a brick wall. She is high investment unit with high returns, Hinata is a low investment unit with moderate returns. Personally I prefer Hinata since I won't have to worry about him for the most part. In IK he isn't a liability at base and can do stuff, so that already makes him a 7/10 unit as far as IK is concerned. Shout out to having just enough speed with a Katana to not get obliterated by the Elite Ninjas in chapter 11. His early game contributions are basically taking the reverse katana and Hana pair up to fight the chapter 11 ninjas, and taking the armor slayer and fighting the armors. He can also single handily take on the generals in chapter 14 and do a giant chunk to the rest of the generals until chapter 17. His growths will catch up to him here though, but he can be moderately useful. Won't ever amount to much after the reunion(17), but he can pull some weight if he needs to. He can also do some insta promoted shenanigans in both routes since he joins level 10 and he doesn't really have that amazing of a late game. He gets +2 str, +3 speed, +1 mov and then the Trueblade passives as promo bonuses. So if your looking for just a solid early-mid game unit, then Hinata can fill the part pretty easily. Also he has by far the best coat out of all the trueblades. TL;DR Hinata is the solidest mid-tier unit.

Tier lists are fun to make, but ultimately don't really mean anything. What has been covered really in the Optimization threads and such is that a lot of people are pretty viable(Except IK) with the exceptions of Rinka, Odin and we appear to be having the Mozume debate last time I checked. On the other hand, some of the stuff that spawns from tier list debates/discussions can be pure gold. I say go for it. Worst case scenario the tier list we make is trash but we can always come back.

Baki is basically if FE7 Lowen traded his horse for a pegasus.

Sakura is 100% outclassed by Felicia in Hoshido and IK. Felicia has more move, better staff rank and can give debuffs. Sakura's unisex aura doesn't really overcome those differences. Heck Felicia can go Strategist relatively quickly and get Battle Command really early which is basically Sakura's aura+. Elise isn't in the same boat since her personal aura is pretty good and she has more move. If you're looking to have Felicia do combat just give her the Explosive Shuriken and that is basically all she needs to be a good combat unit.

I disagree with a lot of that actually lol If we are assuming a units performance on each route then for Nohr Mozume is the worst, Hoshido Yomi/Mozume is the worst, and for IK Odin is the worst. Overall across all 3 routes I would say Mozume is the worst. Hinata and Baki aren't bad in any of the routes. In Hoshido Baki doesn't need that much to be really good as a combat unit and he has flight which is useful for a lot of chapters not to mention the more movement he has over most of the cast in Hoshido. E-Rescue staves are pretty great for him since he can just fly around and rescue Kamui/Ryoma around speeding things up, and you need multiple rescue users to some of the more complicated rescue skips in the later game. Yeah Hinoka is better, but outclassed doesn't always mean that a unit is bad. In IK he is the first flier you get and has access to the training sessions that are 1x and chapter 10 as well as the chapter 10 stat boosters. Those things alone put him way above the likes of the most of the cast that arrives after chapter 13. Hoshido Hinata has bases that can keep him relevant for a majority of the game and if he's trained can fair pretty well in the endgame due to how sluggish late game enemies are and he has the bulk to go multiple rounds of combat. In IK he isn't a liability on his join and can do stuff at base, as far as IK is concerned that makes him a 7/10 unit. In Hoshido, Yomi is just straight up bad with horrible bases and being really underleveled joining after the chapter that a mage would have been really useful in. Yeah he is really dope in IK, but if Yomi can get pulled out of bad because of that, then like the latter half of the unpromoted cast in IK needs to get dragged down to bad for just how bad they are. Its really just him, Odin, Rinka and Mozume that I would call bad ignoring IK. Sub-par units are units like Pieri, Lazward, Setsuna and Asama since by their own merits aren't bad, but they are redundant and don't really bring anything really useful to the table. Both are bad in IK though. Luna is actually pretty great in Nohr since she can go Pegasus knight for flight and staves which are all incredibly useful. She's decent enough in IK. Sub-par classes are classes like Weapon Master and Basara. No one in the game would like to go weapon master, and the only times someone is going Basara is to get breaking sky and then switch to another class. If anything Merc is a sub-par class since it doesn't really offer much.

Thrones are +3 Def/Res, +30 Evade, and 20% recovery. IK actually only has like 2 thrones I think, most of the rest are just forts. Granted 1 of the thrones is on Fuuga in chapter 9 so....

Never forget Nohr!17 Kotarou. 80 and 110 avoid is just dumb

Personally I would have gone with the FE7 Bartre comparison, but your general point still stands.

Rinka does have access to the chapter 10 stat boosters. She isn't the best candidate for them, but if you really like Rinka you can give them to her and it wouldn't be to difficult to feed her if you held off on 1x. She will be completely worthless for chapter 9 as a combat unit, but 1x and 10 are fairly easy to catch a character up to a little below Kamui who hasn't been gaining exp for awhile.

Oh man, I'll finally get to use my Hinata write up that I wrote last time.

Felicia is pretty great. Staves and her aura is really good. Her mag stat and kuni Rank let her use the Magic Shuriken really well and ORKO a lot of enemies. Her personal is pretty good. Flora is alright. Late joining staff/aura/Debuff unit, but she is pretty slow and frail. Shame she joins so late and doesn't have her IK Lunatic boss stats which would make her pretty good. Oboro is pretty alright. Usable and the Lancer Seals have pretty good use. Middle of the pack for the most part in IK. NM is way easier and then pretty much all of these guys are usable on that mode(well Odin still sucks). So for the purposes of support grinding its fairly easy. Its just Lunatic makes it pretty hard for them to not be a liability. Saizou, Setsuna and Laz are the more salvageable of the group on Lunatic, but they are still pretty bad. Sakura is fine since she is an early joining staff bot letting your servants debuff the enemies. Aura is also pretty nice and access to the light bow(though getting to C bows sucks unless you arm scroll dump). Hinoka can fly, Rally Speed and use staves which is really cool, bu 24hp/12def for her join in chapter 16 with the statistically strongest enemies in the game kinda just makes her pretty underwhelming/bad.