leesangstar10
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Posts posted by leesangstar10
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17 hours ago, magnetic_cactus said:
and I still don't see a lot of discussion regarding Swift Strikes and Point-Blank Volley (although it is starting to show up).
I have been pushing swift strike so much but people think it is too late game. Personally I think the art is broken and the reason why I rate Sylvain, Ferdinand, Seteth higher than most people.
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I heard Fiendish blow doesn't stack with the dark bishop's class ability Fiendish blow, but do flairs and hit+20 do?
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57 minutes ago, OCDbox said:
A question I have: is it possible to do Annette's paralouge on Golden Deer if you recruit her and get her C support with Gilbert pretimeskip?
Pretty sure it is impossible to get the C-support since you can't ask for mission assistance from Gilbert. Maybe it is possible if you bring Annette to the map that Gilbert first appears, but I am pretty sure you can't earn support points from green units. Even if it was possible it is going to make ur turn count worse. Not worth the effort at all.
Personally think she should be bottom tier since she isn't good any part of the game and she has terrible move. Dedue is at least good early game and falls off a lot later.
Personally I think Lorenz should be a bit higher imo because his relic kinda fixes the movement problem all mages have, but idk maybe his shakey growths do hold him back a lot. Idk I just think he should have at least a tier higher than Hubert.
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5 minutes ago, Silly said:
Right below top tier is a fine spot, but I'm going to point out that Pegasus Knight is not a hard class to certify for.
D Flying only requires 100 weapon exp. D+ Lance comes at 180 weapon exp. You can stick around to train lances up to C, but at D Flying, D+ Lance you have pretty good odds of certifying for Pegasus Knight at this point. At that point, if you are okay with resetting for the certification, or okay with occasionally wasting an intermediate seal (you should get plenty of them, since every mid-game recruitable unit joins with a free seal), you can just take the exam.
Now how long does this actually take to achieve? Let's say that you recruit Catherine at the start of Chapter 7. If you do nothing but switch her focus to Lance + Flying immediately, at the end of Chapter 8 (before you enter the main mission) she will have 168 exp in Flying and 168 exp in Lances. This is not taking into account any experience from personal tutoring, any experience from fighting in auxiliary battles/paralogues with a lance, and any weapon exp bonuses from the renown statues (the lance bonus comes from the Cethleann statue, which should be the first one you're purchasing anyways since it has class mastery +1).
In conclusion, it's entirely possible to hit Pegasus Knight before chapter 8 with minimal effort.
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Also, her "mid game" contributions are probably actually better as a Pegasus Knight. Catherine's base stats are pretty ridiculous, and she doesn't actually need the Swordmaster class to kill enemies on Hard difficulty. The offensive difference between the two classes is 6 damage, but you're often overkilling all but the bulkiest enemies, so the extra 6 damage per hit isn't necessary. You can either be a 5 move foot unit that ORKOs enemies, or be a 6 move flier that ORKOs enemies. The choice here is obvious. The March Ring helps your mobility as a Swordmaster, but it also helps your mobility as a Pegasus Knight (in fact, it probably helps even more, since more move on a flier is better than more move on a unit that takes terrain penalties).
My main concern is late game. Mind if I ask if you know the minimum skill rank to become a Falcon Knight. If it doesn't seem that bad then I'll prob move her. Again I don't have experience using this build so I want to look at this as objectively as possible. Honestly these certification requirement is confusing on how they base the percentage. I doesn't seem like it bases solely on what requirement you hit. Ex. Hubert has C in lances, and riding. E in bows. But he has a 0% chance passing as bow knight even though he reaches the lance requirement. (yes this is kinda an extreme example but it is just so hard to calculate the investment without actually using a build)
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20 hours ago, leesangstar10 said:
Optimal plays. No luck based strats using divine pulse or killing one enemy each turn.
lol I assume optimal plays. Save scumming is optimal jkjk
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2 hours ago, Flere210 said:
I could attempt the dark knight exam whit Annette at reason A(A+ actually, but i am not sure if getting above the requirement add anything), lance C and riding C. This means that if you are willing to dump an average on 3 seals promotion are possible whit just a C. Not sure wich character are improved by that, but Dorothea dropping metheors from an horse looks scary.
Lol you can just save scum since you can save right before the exam and reset if you fail.
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2 minutes ago, OCDbox said:
This is a new game tier list not NG+. NG+ does indeed trivialize everything.
Okay thank you, it makes this tier list makes much more sense. I do think that for LTC we need separate tier list for each route though, but ig that is for later.
Additionally, I think you should adjust the criteria rules like a limit of number of skill you can invest in. Cause right now I can have a unit like Ingrid(has no weakness) get all the skills possible by ranking it all to S with no penalty, which obv isn't reasonable.
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27 minutes ago, Flere210 said:
Early game is enought to push Dedue out of D lol.
Also, a general consideration. Is the tier assuming 100% success exam only? Because for what i seen is far easier to reach between 50 and 70% and then just try several times if the first one fails(one of my character failed 4 exam in a row at 68% lol), because neither money neither seals are really resources.
Idk some people think there needs to be somebody in D and they arguably the worst units.
I think we are assuming you will succeed the exam despite the chances since it is easily exploitable.
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2 hours ago, OCDbox said:
IMO criteria for this list: Assume NG, students are ranked by assuming you recruit them from the house, investment is not penalized unless it's a weakness or characters join late. Maps ideally played with lowest possible turns/efficiently. Paralogues and Quest maps are okay.
I feel like NG+ kinda trivializes this tier list because anybody can become a wyvern lord and have certain skills/art like smite and such, unless we are ignoring using renown to level up skills.
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14 minutes ago, OCDbox said:
It depends on how you play, but it's situationally as useful as warp and rescue when you need it. Tangible examples:
In chapter 2: you can barely reach the boss with Claude on turn 8 (due to starting positions), he needs a minibow to double after rally speed from Ignatz, if his strength is not ABOVE his averages he needs rally strength as well and can be finished off with Leonie from 3 range.
In the route maps for the chapter 5 quests: STRIDEx2+WARP+Smite is needed to reach the furthest enemies on turn 2 to finish of the map on enemy phase. This changes if have promoted characters at this point, but this would otherwise be
In chapter 5: boss killer will likely need rally strength to hit the benchmark to 1RKO the boss with mace on turn 1 (after stride and warp is used).
In chapter 6 questions: Either rescue or smite is needed to reach enemies (along with stride).
Ingrid paralouge: She needs 2x stride, and multiple combinations of rescue, warp, and smite to reach the exit by turn 3
I think here people just want to know what are the better units/what units make the game easier, not LTC. This is more of a general usage tier list(of course I do take the fact that you are playing optimally, no killing one enemy unit each turn and try to save as many green units). If we were going for LTC though, I feel like we need four tier list, one for each route since not every student's availability is going to be the same, there is going to be a lot of factors(such as the flowers you get).
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22 minutes ago, OCDbox said:
He gets Weight -3 which will prevent doubles with Wyvern bases for the most part for enemy phase; he can use gauntlets on player phase with dismount. Not saying he great, but definitely better than say Alois, Caspar, Dedue, Gilbert, Annette and probably Lorenz and Hubert. In practice Rally strength and SMITE can do a lot more than you think since you really miss it when you need and realize you don't have it.
Weight -3 does help his speed, but Caspar is going to get one more speed than him about every 3 level ups. 45% vs 15%. I never really had the need for rally str(or rally in general) or smite throughout my playthroughs. If I need to move units up, I would use stride(I always carry it with me). If I need a unit to move out of danger, I would use warp or draw back from one of my mage users. And if I needed extra strength I would use support or skills from other units like Hilda.
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Changes:
A->S Edelgard: Still unsure, but it seems everybody thinks her wyvern build is broken so moves up. Like I said I haven't used it so stop telling me ;( I'm just theory crafting.
S->A Seteth: Maybe I am overvaluing his combat art and should punish more on his late availability. Still think he is one of the top A tier unit. Below Petra and Ingrid since they are early game and easy early game flyer.
A->B Bernie: Realized her crest is too niche so she should basically be the same as Ignatz but better since requires less investment and has a crest.
A->B Lorenz: Magic and speed are too meh. If he struggles to double in hard, he is definitely not doubling in lunatic. Still he has a crest which makes him better than Hubert and Dorothea imo, but not by much.
A->B Manuala: People agreed with my point on how she should be a tier below Linhardt. (thank you)
B->B Felix: Tier wise he's the same, but I definitely think he is the best in B, could make him A, but unsure. I forgot he can be a bow knight and his investment to become one is about the same as Ignatz.
C->C Raphael: Moves up one just because flying is better than horse. Still I don't think it is enough for B.
Unsure(something we can discuss about):
Ashe to B: I just think his easier access to death blow make him better than Bernie enough to put him a tier above. I guess the problem is that his early game will suffer due to this and can't help deal with enemy archers(since they'll attack 3 range).
Hilda to B. It just seems off that Dimitri and Hilda are in the same tier. Dimitri gets his Relic earlier and just has growths.
Felix to A. His bow knight capabilities is something I overlooked. His growths are really good too.
Dimitri to higher A. I feel like he should be above the bow knights because theoretically he can also be one too but with insane growths.
Dedue and Alois to D : I just feel like it is too early to determine that and hard mode is easy enough where these guys are still reasonably useable.
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1 hour ago, OCDbox said:
It's not. That's an opinion. If you don't invest in characters and putting them in the wrong classes you are playing sub-optimally in terms of efficiency as a criteria. She can easily meet requirements for Pegasus knight by chapter 7-8 if you recruit her at chapter 6 and set her goals to lances and flying; that gives you a 6 move flier with A swords and really good base stats at minimum by chapter 7 or 8. She will hit falcon knight eventually. This game is more endgame master classes because you are ignoring about 1/2 the game at that point.
Not to sound like an asshole, but investment isn't really opinion since there is set number to reach that rank. Making her into a Pegasus knight will require you to tutor almost every week by chapter 7-8 and if you want her to become a Falcon Knight, she is basically stuck as that class until then. Additionally doing this makes her incredible combat utility in mid game worse. Personally I find her sticking as sword master with a march ring through the whole game is the best. I am think creating a basic guideline on what is considered lots of investment and what is no investment once the data for that is all out. I put her in A so personally I think this is the right tier.
I do get the feeling she will move up because I think she will become a must in lunatic/infernal. She'll definitely help mid game a lot. But I only base it off of confirmed info.
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21 minutes ago, Tarul said:
However, if Lunatic makes the game impossibly difficult without a face-tank like Dedue (or Raphael) early game, then he'd be an S+ tier character even if he rolled over and died after Chapter 5 lol. Can't enjoy late-game if you can't make it past the early game!
I am only doing this based on confirmed information like death knight moving, which is partially the reason why Lysithea is in S(still S without this info, but only reinforces my point). Who knows I am just hoping it ain't awakening where you are forced to make choices/units.
27 minutes ago, Tarul said:I'm curious as to why you listed Lorenz so high? I tried pushing him to a Dark Knight role (through paladin), and had a bad time with him. His strength/magic are both meh (doesn't feel like there's much benefit switching between the two or using a magic-based weapon), his speed is garbage, and his defenses are mediocre to the point where he's not going to die in 1 hit, but he's not exactly going to tank either. Overall, I found Lorenz to be in this weird middle ground where he was sub-par at everything and generally out-classed. Lysanthea benefits more from his hero relic, and other bow knights don't suffer as much during the enemy phase. Finally, his black magic pool is shallow and he doesn't learn physic, instead learning the resistance-boosting spell. IMO, he's a low-tier character.
I mainly just compared him to a bow knight since the relic basically makes him one but targets res. Idk I am thinking about moving him down with Hubert since his spd is kinda bad and stuff. Only time will tell when lunatic comes out.
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29 minutes ago, OCDbox said:
I do agree with the criteria it's a good idea assume you went with the respective house for each student.
Thank you, thinking of a good and fair criteria took forever, longer than the actual tier list, since Sylvain has the best or meh availability lol.
33 minutes ago, OCDbox said:Seteth is good. I disagree he's S rank because of his availability (I'd say A- or B rank). His combat can be replicated by characters you get earlier.
I think this might change based on lunatic. A basically view him as pre promotes like Pent.
35 minutes ago, OCDbox said:I disagree that investment is much for Edelgard. You have her since chapter 1. She only needs D flying and C lances to gets to pegasus knight. She is also a good candidate for Flying + Smite (as early as chapter 5 if you are smart about planning) which is almost as good as warp for any chapter that takes more than 1 turn. I think her weakness in bows is the greater issue, but she is easily an S rank character
Haven't used her like this so this is purely theory crafting. Imo the route is too short for that much investment. I'll do a second play through once lunatic comes out.
39 minutes ago, OCDbox said:His best class is bow knight IMO. You have him since day 1 and you can easily meet the cavalier requirements by chapter 5 with planning. His early game personal skill bonus makes him one of your best units. IMO he should be A rank similar to Leonie.
Huh haven't thought about making him into a bow knight. Then he at the very least should be above Ignatz. I'll try using that.
45 minutes ago, OCDbox said:Bernie and Ashe have very shaky growths and bad bases and fail to meet benchmarks early which means they have trouble snowballing. They also have shaky defense which means they have trouble function on enemy phase. This is just ancedotal experience, but since I play lowest turn count, their performance is easily a tier worst than Leonie. Bernie's crest is unreliable for boss killing. Ashe's chest unlocking utility is useless, you can buy chest/door keys cheaply and most maps come with them for the same number of chests available. Leonie also takes literally no investment whatsoever to be a good bow knight so you can focus on other students since her strengths are all in the right areas. I'd say Leonie is A, Bernie and Ashe (and Ignatz) would be B. Shamir is probably B as well since she is recruited later (chapter 6 at the earliest) and will need a little time to get on a horse or pegasus.
Str is only 5% less and 10% less spd. Ashe has the easy accessibility of getting death blow unlike the other bow knights. Shamir I think should still stay in A since she comes in with the lance rank for bow knight. As long as you keep on training her riding skill it the investment isn't as bad. Who knows was debating moving Bernie down.
54 minutes ago, OCDbox said:So can Raphael who can offer Rally strength and smite. I don't think investment in neutral skills to C should ever be an argument in this game since half the game is literally investment.
Rally isn't enough to compensate his terrible spd growth. Never used it other than support points or I have nothing to do. He is not going to kill anything until mid late game due to brave axe. He is basically a more bulkier Caspar, but really slow. Personally think Caspar is a tier above since spd is also helps with a unit's defense.
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9 hours ago, Silly said:
Just going to point out that you guys are sleeping on Catherine. She's easily one of the better units in the game.
The only thing you need to keep in mind with her is that Swordmaster is a garbage class in terms of long-term viability, since it has 5 move. If you put in the effort to switch her into a better class, then she can easily be incredibly good throughout the whole game. Her base stats are insane, her growths are good, and although she doesn't have any important strengths, she's neutral in the important skills so it's not that difficult to point her towards a better class. Having to put some tutoring into her is well worth it, given the payoff.
Falcon Knight Catherine is an excellent unit. Given her absurd bases, her stats at 30 are on actually average better than most of the "good" Wyvern Lords. She will usually be ahead of them by a couple of points of strength, while also being significantly faster than them, meaning that she can basically double even the fastest of enemies, such as enemy Swordmasters and Assassins.
You do need to know what you're doing when planning out things early, and it does take a little bit of effort to get her there, but it's not that difficult. Falcon Knight requirements are more lenient than Wyvern Lord, since the class only requires Flying B+ instead of Flying A (the difference between B+ and A is actually pretty big), and you don't even have to worry about the Sword requirement at all on Catherine. The lead-in class, Pegasus Knight, is also pretty easy to certify for, since its requirements are only Lance C, Flying D. D ranks are pretty trivial to hit, so it's really easy to hit Flying D and either D or D+ in Lances, and then take the test anyways. Sitting in Pegasus Knight for ~15 levels goes a long way to giving you the appropriate requirements for Falcon Knight (use a Knowledge Gem if you have one, it's really helpful in this case).
Yeah unfortunately that is still a lot of investment. B+ in flying and A in lances is going to take awhile. She is definitely moving up if there are additional master classes for swords.
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2 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:
I don't really see how Edelgard needs much investment, or at least more than any other unit in this game? Axe is the most stringent requirement for the wyvern line and it's her speciality; flight is at least something she's neutral in. (Another soft-req skill for the flying line is Authority since there are limited options for flying battalions and again that's a strength of hers.)
Seteth may have Swift Strike, but anyone can do consecutive attacks with a brave weapon, so I don't feel like this art stands out as much as you seem to think it does. Any advantage Seteth may derive from using Swift Strike off a Silver Lance+ or Spear of Assal (with their higher might) is offset by (a) the fact that wyverns get Axefaire, not Lancefaire; (b) the fact that his competition has Death Blow/Darting Blow from their time as a second-tier job, which he misses; and (c) the fact that brave weapons can get followup attacks and combat arts can not.
Edelgard also needs lances too for wyvern lord, which I believe it to be C. Additionally, she joins as armor lord after the timeskip. So there is basically there are 5 chapters you can use the cheese strat in. Im not saying she requires a lot of investment like Cyril or Flayn does, but for that much investment for so little chapters doesn't feel as worth. Of course, I haven't used this build yet(stuck with the emperor) so maybe she is really worth the effort. I could be very wrong.
Swift strike is basically a better brave lance because of the additional Mt. Brave lance+ has 11 mt vs silver+ has 14mt + 3 mt from combat art. These skills aren't limited to just silver lance, you can use any other lance like Gradivus and other high mt lances. He can even use hero relics too, basically become a brave devil lance. Yes he misses on lance faire and deathblow(which is why I think Sylvain and Ferdinand should go up but people disagree) but with his good bases it is enough considering his requires NO investment and good personal skill. Followup with brave weapons is usually overkill.
Imo he is just really op because of the no investment and amazing combat art. Yeah he comes late, but since he requires no investment, you can focus investing in other units. I am kinda of unsure of his placement so I might move him based on discussion, which is the main reason why he is last in S(similar reason why Edelgard is top of A).
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2 minutes ago, Skell_ said:
I was more focusing on taking advantage of NG+ easily since in theory all units just become renown addicted jack of all trades. Some just do it easier than others. Dedue is just by far the most inflexible unit in the game so once everyone can finally put all their flexibility to use he falls behind his peers. Lunatic Dedue will likely have his own ups and downs. His sky-high defense will undoubtedly give him a role in the early game that even S and A tier unis can't compete with. His hit rate, even with an accuracy ring, still stunk for me, so on Lunatic he will likely end up being a pure wall 90% of the time. Still, I could be wrong about that.
lol have everybody become a wyvern lord. Still putting him in D is a valid argument since he is extremely inflexible even in NG+ and his class option sucks. He might be a must early on, but prob be trash later on in lunatic. Only time will tell when lunatic comes out since I want this tier list to be based on the higher difficulties.
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I feel like this hasn't been mention enough but Gambits/Battalions really do change the gameplay a lot.
First, it balances the huge problem I had with player and enemy phases. Now it is some what balances(still more tweaking needed)
Assuming lunatic will include more enemies that have Battalions, it will make the higher difficulties more fun since it isn't just everybody has higher stats like some games. This could also make some interesting boss fights potentially and makes restore actually useful lol.
Also, can I point out how Battalions actually make it feel like this is a war. It made the game more realistic to me at least.
Additionally, adjutants also balances out the pair up mechanic from awakening/fate and kinda of gives players an exp share from Pokemon. So the high investment units won't be as hard to invest as they used to since some people might just want to use said character.
I do wish shield can be relevant. I never used the shield adjutants since there's not many units have it and later none.
I really hope they keep these two mechanics.
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Also I was thinking about maybe making another forum post with the tier list so it is easier for people to see it and make quick and easy adjustments based on discussion.
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18 minutes ago, Skell_ said:
I'll add some input for NG+ since I like your list despite some minor issues I have with it like how Dimtri isn't top tier but Seteth is. Either way.
- Dedue drops down to D due to being incapable of training any mounted classes with ease and is horribly inflexible. He can't take advantage of NG+ like others can.
- All later recruits like Catherine and Shamir drop a tier due to later recruitment time and having to go out of your way to train them in classes like Brigand/Pegasus Knight for specific skills which students trained from level one have an easier time picking this up in NG and then always having access to it in NG+.
- All magic users can jump up a tier due to having access to their strongest spell from the get go.
- Units with good budding talents such as Felix deserve a bit extra due to being able to circumvent the difficult part of training their skill and just immediately get it up to max and maybe deserves a tier boost
For mine, I don't consider NG+. If I do, then basically everybody becomes the same. Also dropping units to D tier I feel like is too early to say since Lunatic hasn't come out yet, but I do see your argument.
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14 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:
Edelgard needs to go to the top tier, her stat build and trivial access to the wyvern line is a ridiculous combination in this game, plus her divine weapon is broken.
Dimitri is also really damn good, though he doesn't fly quite as easily so I can mayyybe buy A but if any non-flier deserves S, it's him. He can OHKO basically anything.
What makes Seteth better than various other good fliers in A? His base stats didn't really stand out, and he has less availability.
Manuela's too high IMO, Warp isn't that good. In general A feels a bit overcrowded; I'm kinda skeptical that Bernadetta, Ashe, Shamir, Lorenz, Sylvain, or Linhardt belong there as well, but I could see arguments.
I haven't used her with the wyvern build yet so this is mainly based on theory crafting. I just think that much investment with that little chapters to use doesn't seem as S worthy, but I will consider your opinion!
Dimitri so far has just been really solid, not like carrying the team or anything. Sylvain and Ferdinand can also OHKO things too, but I think him moving up or staying really just depends on lunatic.
Seteth has Swift strike and requires no investment at all to be this good. I do agree that he has bad availability, but I wasn't sure if that is enough of a reason to bum him down to A.
Personally I agree with your argument with Mauela, but everybody else seems to disagree so I thought maybe it is bias, but she's most likely going down once lunatic.
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I posted it as a picture since it is easier to just look at.
I tried to be as non bias as possible. This consist of theory crafting/personal(or friend) experience. So take it with a grain of salt since the e this game is still new.
S tier:
Byleth has the best and early access to a hero relic with great growth rates. Great recalls option with his unique class and flier class.
Claude a broken flyer.
Lysithea is amazing with the hero relic and later on will be the best reliable way to kill the death knight in Lunatic.
Seteth a broken flyer as well lol but later availability. Has broken combat art swift strike. Basically gives a weapon a brave effect with some extra Mt.
A tier:
Edelgard: Best class is actually wyvern lord. Her combat art is kinda like gale force hence making it possible to cheese maps. Haven't used it. Reason why its not S is because of the investment not being as worth since there isn't enough chapters you can use this cheese strat on.
Petra and Ingrid: Serve as early game flier with decent growths. Pretty much the same with minor differences such as Petra is easier to become a wyvern rider, but Ingrid gets a hero relic.
Leonie, Bernie, Ashe, Shamir(aka bow knights): They all are pretty similar. Leonie has the best growths, Bernie has an amazing crest, Ashe provides chest unlocking utility with his personal and better class path(gets access to death blow), and Shamir being a great pre promote with great personal skill. They are all similar since they are all going to end up as a bow knight. Honestly I think they are basically the same with minor differences, hence why I am just grouping them.
Lorenz: Basically a bow knight that targets res with his hero relic. He is lower than the bow knights because the difficulty to one shot enemies due to mediocre Spd. His magic growth high enough to one shot to and doesn't have like a brave effect attack unlike the bow knights. Later in Lunatic might drop lower possibly a tier.
Ferdinand and Sylvain: Lol similar design and growth rates. These two are very similar since they both will end up as great knights or wyvern lords(personally think you should do this instead). Provide early game high mobility and are great stride users. Both have access to swift strike making them broken as Seteth. Personally think they should be the same place as Seteth but friends disagree so this is where they are.
Ditmitri: Solid stats and growths nothing to go wrong. Just doesn't have anything broken to my knowledge. Just really good.
Linhardt: Best staff/faith magic utility. Can use warp and use physics. He can use gambits to make up the lack of not having an AOE healing spell. Offensively really decent too.
Catherine: Broken the moment you get her. Makes the mid game a joke. Unfortunately she falls off late game due to terrible master class options. She will eventually fall behind compared to your mounted unit. But still a great unit.
Hilda: Good axe user with great hero relic. Unfortunately her bad proficiency in authority and the amount of investment needed really hinders her rating. But still great unit.
Manuala: Good staff/faith magic utility with warp. Unfortunately she is a big investment for her master class Gremory or Holy Knight. Personally think she should be in B but a lot of people thought I was dumb putting her there. I just think she should be a tier below Linhardt since less of an investment and access to physics unlike Manuala.
B tier:
Ignatz: Easily the worst out of the bow knights. He is a tier below because it requires more investment for him to become a bow knight. Also he doesn't provide anything unique like the other bow knights. Still a good unit though.
Cyril: Basically he screams needing lots of investment. Has potential to be good, but there are basically better units with less investments. Leonie is basically the same as Cyril as a bow knight (they both have 40% str and 60% spd but Leonie comes earlier) and Seteth when he joins you will have about the same stats as a wyvern lord(but requiring no investment and good personal skill) Still can become a good bow knight or wyvern lord.
Flayn: Great staff/faith magic utility. It is about the same as Linhardt, except she requires lots of investment. Still rescue is nice to save the green units and could help move units that are behind forward. Still the investment cost makes her a tier below Linhardt.
Hubert: A worse Lorenz imo. His offensive capabilities is better but Lorenz has the staff that gives him +2 range. Also Lorenz is easier to promote as a dark knight. Still solid unit.
Dorothea: An average mage, but has access to meteor making her pretty good. But the difficulties promoting her to a dark knight and not that great faith spells make her worse than Hubert slightly. Also I KNOW SHE CAN BE A DANCER BUT SO CAN THE OTHER STUDENTS THIS IS WHY I AM IGNORING THAT RECLASS. So many people told me about and it is annoying to keep on telling them to read the rules.
Marianna: Okay combat and meh staff utility. Silence is bad since bosses are unaffected by it and the only useful spell is physics. She is over Mercedes because of better hero relic and easier promotion to holy knight(which is the better class option for Mercedes). Still the two are similar
Mercedes: Best healer, but doesn't do much for her. Still a solid unit and can be your primary/only healer.
Felix: Good growths, it is unfortunate that swords are the worst weapon to invest in since mortal servant is the best master class for sword users unfortunately. Making him any other class is going to be a big investment. Also his hero relic is one of the worst.
Caspar: Just decent all across the board. He can be a good wyvern lord but will require lots of investment. War master is decent and their class mastery skill is amazing, but at that point, you will be mostly finished with the game.
C tier:
Hanneman: A worse Dorothea. Also his spd growth is trash. 20% and dark knights get a -5% spd penalty. Still has meteor and thoron so he isn't trash, but doesn't excel.
Gilbert: Terrible class, meh growths, and bad availability. He is better than Alois just because it is easier for him to become a Great Knight and better personal skill.
Raphael: Love this man, but 15% spd and bad proficiency in riding makes it hard for me to defend the guy. He requires lots of investment if you want him to become either a wyvern lord or great knight. He can be a good tank with possibility to self heal(personal +goddess ring) but tanks in general aren't that good. Great character, but bad unit.
Dedue: Bad at both riding and flying. He is about the same as Raphael, but personally found Raphael better because he can self heal.
Annette: Her spell options aren't that good. Terrible faith spells and decent/alright reason. Her hero relic is basically blue lion locked, making her even worse in other routes. (I am still judging this from all routes, only availability is route based)
Alois: Terrible availability, terrible base class, and terrible personal skill. Also has bad proficiency in flying so he is basically has to be a War Master(which is the second worse master class imo). He could be a Great Knight, but that will require lots of investment and at that point of the game, you would basically be almost done.
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This tier is ordered!
Rating criteria:
- This is Classic Hard Mode. Not new game plus. So no using renown to get class mastery skills and etc
- I will include the some Lunatic changes that we know so far. Ex. Death Knight can move
- I WILL consider the skills/art units can get as they class change or level their weapon skills. Ex. Sylvain, Seteth, Ferdinand can get swift strike by raising lance skills to A. (Extremely broken art)
- Availability for student is based on the route they start in. I did this because students outside your house availability can vary based on your Byleth’s skill level. This balances things out and will make it less complicated. Ex. Will not consider Hilda’s late available recruitment option in church route. However, I will consider Alois’s very late recruitment since he is recruited late in all routes.
- Will consider the investment into the unit. Like how hard it is to reach the minimum certification requirement for a certain class. Ex. Difficulty of getting Dorothea to a dark knight since she is bad at riding and neutral in lance.
- Canto/mount is broken. This will affect a unit’s rating a lot.
- Optimal plays. No luck based strats using divine pulse or killing one enemy each turn.
- Crest, Hero relic, and sacred weapons considered.
Factors not considered:
- Team synergy
- Dancer class change. Anybody can be a dancer and can be really good.
- Grinding and new game plus features. Can make any unit good/broken
Fire Emblem Three Houses Unit Tier Lists
in Fire Emblem: Three Houses
Posted
Mortal savant is still very much inferior to his bow knight class, which is the arguably the second best class. Bow knight does require more investment, but still he becomes much better later on.