DaveCozy

Wow, this list is super similar to mine honestly, not much to argue from me in an efficiency / LTC context. I do have a few nitpicks, but overall, super solid list in general. Ivy S -> A; the more I use Ivy, the less I'm impressed by her honestly. She is prone to randomly blowing up to enemy crits, due to her low Dodge, and her speed is pretty suspect without help. None of these things are impossible to fix, and mind you she's still incredibly useful as a flying mage / staff user too. But I feel she is more A than S due to these issues. Louis B -> A; I think Louis is pretty underrated as a unit, supposedly because he falls off, but I hardly find that to be true myself. Tanking falls off indeed, but Louis himself has a lot of raw strength to pull out OHKOs with a refined Silver Greatlance (as an e.g.) and enemy phase with that. Alternatively he has good enough stats to also pull off a Vantage & Wrath build, much like Panette minus the personal. Also an easy fit into Halberdier for just pure player phase with a Brave Lance and Pincer Attack. He is a good unit through and through, I think his transition to another role is a bit slept on, and I feel he's a solid A tier myself. Fogado B -> A; he is the least commitment user of Radiant Bow, outside Mauvier, but he's also available sooner. Fogado's unique class also gives him really good speed, on top of his already good personal speed stat too, which makes him a solid Eirika Brave Bow user too for late-game. I'd say he's solidly A tier, if anything his bad bulk and having useless skills holds him back somewhat, but he player-phases well enough for me to forgive that. Goldmary C -> B; one thing I like about her is very low comitment access to Brave Assist, only needing 2 levels. Same with 1800 SP being just 2 levels away with an emblem to get Dual Assist+ from Lucina. Granted, you still deal with 80% accuracy of chain attacks and activation of Dual Assists, but that's not a unique issue to her. Any unit can be a chain attack bot, true, but only Goldmary has that little investment to pull it off. She's also pretty solid in other classes, Great Knight and Halberdier (with Eirika for the latter) coming to mind, so it's not her only option either. I say B. Timerra C -> D; I don't get the hype with her. Sandstorm is really good, if it activates. Key phrase being, if it activates. Outside Sandstorm, her damage is very underwhelming. While her unique class is a ball of stats, she's still foot locked with only Lances as a weapon choice, and I don't feel it's enough to really justify raising her. Outside of Picket, her stats just plummet, and it's a sad thing to look at... say Hero Timerra vs Hero Goldmary. I would actually argue that Alfred is a better unit than she is, I say D. I could also argue for Celine to B, and probably Lapis to B as well, but I feel like I'm really nitpicking at that point, and I don't feel strongly enough to argue beyond that. Solid list and thanks for sharing!

Kagetsu is a ball of high stats kinda unit. He does well in basically any mobile cavalry or flying class. The thing that mostly limits him is the Emblems that he has access to when he joins, specially without DLC. I would strongly recommend Wyvern Knight. If you don't have DLC, you have only 2 chapters to wait for Ike's Axe proficiency. With DLC, Hector is right there so even sooner reclass. Kagetsu's ability goes very well with Axes too as it makes him more accurate than a lot of other units. I see nothing wrong with having three Wyverns either, it's a really strong offensive class for the campaign. If you'd rather reclass him right away with no DLC and want something different from Wyvern though, then Paladin is a good option too, which is also a ball of stats kinda class that just works well with Kagetsu. Bow Knight would work too if you want, but imo Paladin > Bow Knight in terms of stats. You can use Lyn emblem on him as Paladin and he can use her Bows in that class instead (Mulagir is better than almost any other bow sans the Radiant Bow). Wolf Knight, Griffin Knight, and other classes work well too, but it depends more on proficiencies available at that point. The two I listed work well and are accessible relatively soon without DLC emblems. Kagetsu in any class does particularly well with Lyn I find. He is already a really fast unit, and putting Lyn on him allows him to double basically every enemy even up to endgame. Including the ch24 boss with a refined Wyrmslayer to ORKO them with effective damage, that boss also has 40 AS.

Ice would probably be better if it wasn't only on Qi Adept and Dragon. Using Corrin on Seadall is just counter-productive to wanting your dancer to dance. Dragon class also has a case for wanting Byleth or Celica for 3-range echoes (more-so relevant for the final join spoiler unit). So Martial Master is the other option I can think of and that's not a very good class either. Outside of specific situations where you need Bond Shield and Chain Guard, then I guess it could be okay, but I can't think of many situations where that's necessary either. That aside, Flashing Fist Art builds with Eirika are the only other viable thing that I know Martial Master can do (and even that is very specific speedtaker/speed+ breakpoints) and that does not involve Corrin. Personally I haven't been a fan of Water with Cavalry, at least not with Corrin anyways. The effect is useful for sure, but the checkerboard pattern is not so nice for your grounded units either if you want them to take advantage of the debuffed enemy. On top of that, you can just use Torrential Roar like you said, and I find usually one application is enough. That said. Someone in a different forum told me that Camilla has a different pattern with her veins, with water being more of a 2-range + shape instead. So that seems a lot better, specially on someone like a Mage Knight given the stat boosts she gives while synced, and Soar that she provides while Engaged.

Yeah Draconic Hex is really strong. The debuffs make a huge difference. Agree, I think Vines are probably the weakest. There's also ways to run Enemy Phase builds so that you hit first. Like the classic and proven Vantage & Wrath combo. In Engage there's units who can easily get 100% crit rates, so you're not really having issues with being broken either if you strike enemies first. As for Fracture staves, not many enemies have those either, and most of the ones that do can just be silenced safely as well before they do anything.

Corrin and Camilla with DLC let the unit they sync with use Dragon Veins, which are determined by the class type using them. I want to get a discussion going on Dragon Veins, to get a different perspective on which ones you all find useful. I don't have DLC yet myself, but I'm including Camilla just to get discussion going around her too. As a reminder, links to the effects of the Dragon Veins: https://serenesforest.net/engage/emblems/corrin/ https://serenesforest.net/engage/emblems/camilla/ Of course, there's other benefits that these emblems offer too beyond Dragon Veins. Corrin with Draconic Hex and Dreadful Aura, Camilla with Soar and speed stat bonuses. Just as a few e.g. Feel free to include those too for your reasoning. Personally, with Corrin, my favorite classes to put them on are Coverts and Mystics, slightly preferring the latter. I find that Fog and Fire are the ones I mostly default to when using Corrin!Alear, so I ended up switching Corrin to a Thief, Sage, or Celine as Vidame if I was using her in my playthrough. My reasoning for liking Corrin on a Thief is because Knives apply Poison, which is really nifty utility combined with Draconic Hex and Dreadful Aura. Fog granting Avo+ is useful too for letting other units EP more reliably, as well as applying move penalties on enemies. My reasoning for liking Corrin on a Sage is because 3-range (el)Thunder / Thoron access to apply Draconic Hex and Dreadful Aura from safe range. Fire also costs more move to get through, like Fog, and the damage it deals to units can also be used to set up something like Wrath on your own units (damage applies before the vein disappears on your turn). I've started preferring this one over Fog more recently myself. What are your favorite Dragon Veins from these two emblems? What units and class do you sync them with?

They still could've attacked Alear yeah. I'm thinking this might be a Hard AI thing though, where the Archer preferred to attack a unit who wouldn't counter them back (Alear had Levin sword, while Jade had a Killer lance).

Every unit has fixed decimal values for their stats in Fixed mode. Those decimals are hidden from the player, and they're always rounded down to the nearest whole number. This is why your first level up for most units will always have a +1 in certain stats under Fixed growths. Alear doesn't technically start from 22 HP for e.g. even though that's what we see; they start from 22.6 HP in the games code variable. So at level 2, with a 70% growth, it'll go up by one point, to 27 HP guaranteed. If what you're looking for is an average stats calculator, triangle attack has a tool for that: https://fe17.triangleattack.com/average_stats You can see the starting decimals of every unit there. And no sweat to understand this either, you can simply use the tool instead to compare what stats you can expect in Fixed, or even to compare what average stats would look like in Random too. Even when I play Random, I actually like comparing average stats too just to see if I got lucky or not with certain level ups. Also, skills like Jean's personal and Starsphere will alter the values you'll get under Fixed Growths, as well as class growths from class changing.

Nice use of obstruct there, I wonder if that'd be a viable Maddening strat too. Usually I just rewarp ahead with Griffon.

yeah you'd have to plan that before-hand which is... not really great. Forging an Elfire tome ahead of time and later upgrading it to Bolganone would be the way to go I guess, but that's a bit expensive. If you wait, which is what I lean towards myself, you could just use it more for paralogues instead. -- Sorry I'm also reading the rest of the topic just now, so posting other thoughts; I've been running Byleth's on a forged Silver Dagger as well, that seems to work out well for Merrin on Maddening. I suppose Leif's would be good too. I kinda like the ones that add a bit of weight for daggers. -- Another note on the Mt+ and Weight+ ones (Roy and Ike) those are actually fairly good for not just Smash Weapons + General / Great Knight, but Brave Weapons too. Specially if you're setting up a Pincer Attack Halberdier for e.g. a brave lance with Ike's engrave and Roy equipped at bond level 19 will reach really good might values, and quad with that too! Both are also fairly niche engraves but their niches are not very contested either, so there's definitely value in using them. Multiple inventory slots luckily, as Lenticular above mentioned, means swapping between weapons with different engraves makes them fit well in situations when you need one more over the other.

Celica's engraving is niche indeed, but pretty good for Ivy. So she can not be prone to randomly get crit with her otherwise decent-for-a-mage bulk.

Personally, with regular use and occasional Arena training, I found the point Great Knight Louis starts to fall off in Maddening is ch13. That's where promoted enemies start really chunking him. I made him a Halberdier after ch15 and Ike's paralogue were done (a wall is actually pretty useful to chokepoint for the latter map). That is conveniently when both Eirika and Goldmary are about to join too, the latter who can take over the tanking role instead. My preferred Halberdier path with Louis on Maddening is Lance Knight -> Great Knight (Lance/Axe) -> Halberdier. Lance Power 1->2 and Canter as skills. He had Sigurd -> Ike -> Eirika when Pincer Attack was learned.

Defensive emblems could work but I think you're better off going another class at that point. Great Knights and Generals make better use of Ike, Leif and Sigurd in my experience, as their defense and HP values are relatively higher and can tank much better than Halberdiers can. If you are using a Halberdier, I think the best way to do so is to capitalize on Pincer Attack. As that's the most unique thing they offer over every other class. You could try and make them a mixed offensive and defensive unit, but in my experience, they just become mediocre more than useful. I can agree with Roy though. I'm coming around the idea of him being a solid emblem for a Halberdier, but it's also because he boosts strength by quite a high amount; +6 at bond level 19, and more with Rise Above. He can work both defensively and offensively due to his toolkit, and that's something that certainly benefits Halberdier as it still capitalizes on doing the most damage with a double or quad. Eirika also only requires being engaged to really maximize damage output of Halberdier. That's 4 turns that you can use to your advantage at bond level 11 or higher. As long as you stack enough true damage, you can one-round any enemy with a Brave Lance quad, or a Silver Lance / Brionac double for enemies with lower defense. True damage sources include: Eirika engaged skills (Eclipse Brace and Blue Skies), Poison stacks, personal skills (Alear for e.g.). If you're relying on Str and weapon might with Roy instead, then stacking debuffs like Poison and Draconic Hex helps a lot too.

I do want to add, Avo+10 is useful to a certain extent as well. A few pre-10 units like Celine or Chloe really appreciate the boost to stack on top of their already high avoid. And it's not enough to be overkill on them either, as enemies just ignore them if it is overkill. If you give Celine Avo+10 with Celica, you can enable some riskier Warp Ragnarok strategies too. Most notably baiting Hyacinth in Ch10 to use and miss with his Arts instead of Lyn's Astra Storm. It's possible with an engraved weapon to drop his hit rate to the 20s, enough that the AI will still attempt to go for a break. It's not completely risk free mind you, but I have have found it to be fairly consistent.

I've noticed that Vander earns quite more EXP in the Arena than he does in the early game. Is there a reason for this? In general, do we understand how EXP distribution in the Arena works? I know that win means more EXP than loss, but not specifics.

yeah I agree here. Vander as Great Knight will also have more HP than Louis, Jade or Bunet too, which makes him a pretty viable Ike user for mid-game from my experience. HP being his best stat is one thing that gives him viability long term.

Personally I'd only go for Build+3 if I am gonna combine it with Speed+3 or higher, equipping both skills to benefit from both bonuses. Spending 1k SP to undo -3 AS and also gain +3 AS is much more cost effective than spending 2k SP for only speed+5. Particularly if you want to quad with Brave weapons. Otherwise speed+3 does the same thing, not only does it offset the weight penalty but also applies more AS if you overdo the penalty. I'd say is more worth it over Build+3.

I only ever use it for Ivy's tome. She's the only unit that has such awful luck to badly need the extra dodge and prevent getting critted through her otherwise decent-for-a-mage bulk.

Yeah tonics and Somniel activites in general are treated as the same source, and don't stack. That also applies to Strength tonics, a str+ meal and working out with push ups. None of those stack either.

Personally I don't think giving any of the Brodia units Canter is necessary. Citrinne would arguably want it most if running Dire Thunder, without that ring though she could just equip Corrin for flame terrain and Draconic Hex Thorons instead. The rest would probably rather keep SP saved up for speed+3, Dual Assist if any reclass/stay as backups, or Resolve in Jade's or Diamant's case. I theorize that even Lapis could get Bld+3 early instead, and then later get Speed+3 too. Only if combo'd I think that Build+3 has value being inherited. I'm currently running Wyvern Chloé in Maddening with both Speed+3 and Build+3 equipped, using a Sigurd engraved and refined Brave Lance+1. Works quite well engaged with Eirika particularly. I imagine Lapis could do something similar too since she's close stats wise.

Oh yeah, I should mention, I don't have DLC so I excluded it. Good call, I can see him working well too just off reading his emblem skills. In theory I guess the Roy emblem would work too if you'd rather rely on his big strength bonus and Rise Above for damage. Although you probably won't be able to 1-round high defense enemies with him though... I'd say other classes like Warrior, Paladin, Griffin or Wyvern would just benefit more from him.

I think a solid class path for Alear is Dragon Child -> Griffin Knight in ch11 -> Divine Dragon when you get Byleth. Divine Dragon is a pretty cool unique class for utility purposes, strong synergy particularly with the Byleth emblem granting the Omni-dance and instruct. While it does indeed stunt Alears combat since swords and arts are not great weapons, they can just focus on providing support instead while having decent enough stats to be placed near enemies too. You can even equip them a shield art for a free Def+5 boost if needed, while they just help everyone else. That said, if combat is the focus for Alear, I would personally say that other classes do that better. Wyvern, Hero, Warrior, Griffin, Wolf Knight, etc. seem like better alternatives if that's the desired outcome.

I really like how you can map out different class paths by just pressing the master seal button on the top right for different units. Nice touch. If I could vote for one feature to be added, it'd be the inventory information. I think units get a lot of attention, but really what you invest most of the gold in this game is actually weapons. Being able to get information on how they refine would be helpful. My Android phone is a Samsung Galaxy Z Fold 4, one of those foldable phones that turns into a tablet if you open it like a book. The app seamlessly switches between both screen sizes, which is pretty handy as well. I attached one screenshot in multitasking mode, which has Serenes in this page on the left and your app on the right. By far the most useful way for me to use it, as I can quickly compare my notes with the app itself. 🙂

Lapis is definitely a slept on unit. I think it's because she joins in a not very useful class for her join chapter, so she's easy to overlook. But her stats are honestly pretty good, similar to Chloe's, and you can just reclass her to Wyvern by ch9 to have her stomp things hard. I'm not entirely sold on whether she's better than Kagetsu and Chloe though, but I don't think it's highly important to find out either. Engage isn't a game that you can just Seth-solo efficiently (it is probably possible to solo, but I doubt it would be efficient). Enemies have very high stats and bosses have multiple health bars, so having multiple units that can stomp enemies is useful. I am planning to run Maddening with all of Chloe, Lapis and Kagetsu in the same run. I don't see why not. Jean's paralogue only has 3 archers to speak of, while ch5 in Maddening only has 1 archer en-route to the boss, with only 2 more appearing as reinforcements. If you're emphasizing a fast clear, you can just ignore the reinforcements too, and ignore the chests as they don't have particularly necessary items (Armorslayer and Obstruct staff can eventually just be bought from the shop and aren't badly needed at this point). Chapter 5 is particularly weird because, compared to Hard, one of the Archer and one of the Axe Fighter enemies both get replaced by Mage enemies instead in Maddening. So it actually means Chloe becomes more valuable in Maddening for that chapter while Louis would actually get dented harder. Feel free to verify that here: https://fe17.triangleattack.com/maps/retaking_the_castle I do also think you're being a bit hard on Chloe and in general underestimating how useful early flight is. It's not as centralizing as previous FE games - not like 3H CF which was pretty much "screw horses use fliers" lol - but it's still pretty good in Engage to let you safely engage a specific enemy while putting you in the clear of dangerous enemies. Other relevant situations include clearing out the nearby thunder mage and baiting a sword and thief enemies to her in chapter 6 (she won't double them, but they won't double or ORKO her either), using walls to her advantage. And if promoted early with the master seal from Anna's Paralogue to a Sword/Lance Wyvern, consistently doubling the axe/lance fighters and archers while safely baiting Hortensia in ch7 and Ivy in ch8. She will ORKO the regular enemies too with the right equipment and the energy drop bumping her offenses to 15 spd and 15 str on Fixed growths. Again, I do agree Lapis is a good unit, but I don't see why that suddenly means Chloe shouldn't get those resources either. I don't think the lack of those resources would make Lapis worse necessarily, she doesn't join at that point and even when she does, she can't take flight until chapter 9 earliest. And you do need to clear those chapters to get there eventually.

Halberdier as a class has very middling stats and is locked to lances, which are decent but not great weapons in Engage. It's not a class you go to if you want general combat utility, as Hero and Warrior just do chain attacking better while being stronger stats wise. Nor is it really a great class for enemy phasing either as its defensive stats (while not awful) aren't up to par with tankier and more well rounded classes like Great Knight. The claim to fame that Halberdier really has is Pincer Attack as its class skill, which lets you double any enemy regardless of speed. This is most useful for the endgame, particularly on Maddening, where some bosses can reach Speed values in the 30s and even 40 for the ch24 boss - that boss is nigh impossible to double otherwise, without having some very specific Speed+ and Build+ stat boost combo, or Speedtaker setup beforehand. You don't even need Run Through from Swordmaster, you just need a unit that has Canter (or Sigurd) and position them opposite to the enemy after their action is done. Considering that Canter is a pretty valuable skill in general, it's not a difficult demand to meet. If you really want Pincer Attack to shine, I really, really recommend you give them a Brave Lance and engage your Halberdier with the Eirika emblem. When engaged, you will benefit from Eclipse Brace (x0.2/0.3 of enemy defense added as damage per hit, depending on bond level) and Blue Skies (+3/+5 damage added per hit, for a total of +6/+10 if doubling, or +12/+20 if quadding). If you want a (spoiler) e.g. to see how well this works; Halberdier Vander quadding and ORKOing the final boss in Maddening (not my playthrough, borrowing from another user who shared it): As for units that do Halberdier well, I'd say pretty much anyone can be a good one. But ideally, units that just struggle to double. Since the class pairs so well with the Eirika emblem, I personally wouldn't recommend running more than 1 Halberdier per team either. Without Eirika it might still be okay in Hard, but feels very mediocre in Maddening. Vander aside, I second the recommendation for Alfred, assuming you are using him until endgame, he'd be a pretty solid candidate to put in the class. Someone like Louis does very well too, since his speed is very low and his tankiness doesn't hold forever - enemies tend to really dent him near endgame even in Hard - so he can safely transition to a more specialized boss-killing role using Halberdier.

yeah Nodus isn't really worth it for the main story. It's meant moreso as a Tower tool if I had to guess, because your equipment gets restored after a trial is done (ditto with deaths, which aren't permanent under Tower of Trials). I don't think it's worth donating beyond level 2 at all either, not until post-game anyways. The amount of gold it costs gets too expensive, and you could be using that to refine weapons instead, which make a much more meaningful contribution to your combat.