DaveCozy

So "Build" is the stat in this game that affects Attack Speed, kinda like Con in previous games. If it's 1:1 as leaks have noted, then it's going to be pretty important to increase before settling on an advanced class so that units can use the heavier and stronger weapons without receiving a significant bump to your attack speed. Fixed growths obviously can complicate this though. Reason number 1 being that build growth is low overall and relying on lucky level ups just won't cut it. Reason number 2 is that some units simply have 0% growth for build to start, due to their combinations of starting class and growths. What can be done? Well, just like how it worked in Echoes and 3H (and prior games probably), you could reclass to bump up base minimums. Not just Build growth, also your base Build stat. From what I'm noting in leaks, these are the best classes to reclass to in order to bump up the stat: General - 10 base build Berserker - 9 base build Early game notable ones: Any Armor - 7 base build Axe Fighter - 7 base build As long as you reclass to it, you get the base Build minimum, and it'll carry over to whatever other class you want later. That base minimum will be quite significant too, as leaks have also noted some units have very low base build and very low growth (e.g. like Celine at 4 build and 5% growth, and a lot of stronger tomes are heavier than that). You can switch back to your preferred class afterwards. Thankfully, Engage lets you go from Advanced to Advanced class at any level as long as weapon proficiencies are met; not like Awakening which forced you to be at level 10 Advanced to reclass to another Advanced class. I would personally say it'd be better to reclass first, and then after use any permanent stat boosters to increase build. That way it can more easily and realistically reach the classes Build cap. EDIT: all this is an example as well and based on leaked info, not necessarily fully confirmed info. It might be possible that high enough speed stats can make the AS penalty moot too, pending expected enemy stats (if I have to guess, it'll be more important for defense team building where you want challengers to struggle as much as possible 😉 ). I'm merely using examples to explain how base minimums can be altered via reclassing, based on how they work in previous games.

Neat thanks! Secret Transport Force is a 6/10 for me; stats are okay, availability is bad in CF and non-existent in SS, but the utility of flying Stride is good to have if looking for something like a 2 or 3 turn clear. 1-turning too, although since deployment is usually pretty close together I'd think Gautier and Seiros Monks would be sufficient for that. Being flying makes it much more important though, since options are limited in that department. What really kills the rating for me is how awful that paralogue is. I can't really grade the others, I don't use DLC much in the main game.

Aw thanks! I won't make things complicated then and just stick to that past one. I think that Kingdom Archers is an 8/10. Its stat bonuses are weak and is the only reason it isn't going to be higher for me, but the battalion effect is so strong and it matters due to the fact that a) Dimitri loves it with his battalion ability combo, and b) siege magic is obnoxious in the final AM chapter stretch. As a bit of a goofy strategy, an Assassin with this battalion is actually pretty helpful; any of the units that got Retribution will counter back while enemies will stay away from the Assassin because of Stealth.

Short answer; yes, they are too good. Long answer: yes they are too good, but the fact that Alert Stance is a B and + is an A+ flying ability does limit their usefulness to a certain point of the game. The one primary weakness that you still have to worry about with dodge-tanks too is gambits. Hit-rate for those also has a floor, which means it's still gonna be possible to get hit even with a dodge-tank that has a lot of charm. I've been following some discussion here too and noted that winstate is a factor, not efficiency. I suppose if you don't mind spending a lot of turns dodging without doing a lot of damage, then yeah you can get away with it and eventually win. Personally though, I'd say that's what I actually find boring; specifically dodge-tanking without teeth. Doesn't sound fun to me to just play footsies with enemies for several turns when you could have used a dodge-tank that can also consistently crit back with each counterattack. When I use dodge-tanks, I usually go for units that also have Battalion Wrath. So Petra, Hilda, Jeritza, etc. Vantage not really needed for dodge-tanks, because they're dodging anyways and then hitting back with a crit. No need to carefully watch your battalion HP and replenish it either, since you're dodge-tank is dodging anyways. Personally I find that to be the more fun way of dodge-tanking, versus using Sword Avoid +20 (which imo wastes your dancer) or going with a unit like Ingrid (ngl, I think she's better off using Battalion Desperation with Darting Blow and Death Blow for exclusive player-phase combat). This is all my playstyle preference though, just to be clear. Yes that is one thing that sucks about Wrath, Warrior takes too long to master. Only really worth going for it with characters that easily lean towards it imo, like Dedue. Much more accessible if you ask me is Vantage + Battalion Wrath combo. It's also not without its flaws though, even having more downsides of maintaining your battalion HP as well, but it's a lot more accessible of a combo than either Wrath and Alert+ for a handful of units. So that's the more notable thing about it. I think what I'm basically trying to say with everything I typed is that, yes dodge-tanking is busted, but it comes late and there's other things that can be just as busted too; even considering their drawbacks, I think it balances out by the fact that some combos can be gotten earlier.

Damn, honestly I forgot that Snipers Hunters Volley didn't take +1 range into account, and was just locked to the base combat art range. That's my bad. I love warp myself. I usually recruit Linhardt for Warp. I'll even run Manuela, Lysethia and Linhardt just to warp-chain Byleth to Flame Emperor in ch11 and clear it in turn 1. No crest stones get stolen that way and you get the best rewards. But yeah, this is playstyle preference. I can respect wanting him for Turtle paralogue... Inexhaustible is a pretty good bow on a fast Darting Blow unit. But man I hate it that one; why is the boss so tanky? Why is the boss still alive? Why am I getting one-rounded by an AoE attack? Why'd they give it Miracle?

Sad that I'm just joining in 😞 I had a lot to say about some of those previous ones. I can agree with almost all of the summary gratings except Kingdom Archers; that one is rated way too low imo, Retribution OP and D rank is really busted, specially when it's on a route with the only Battalion Vantage + Battalion Wrath unit Dimitri. It makes that combo super easy to abuse. Macuil Evil Repelling Co.: 8/10 High authority requirement and being magical holds it back (some monsters love being immune to magic with barriers up). But frankly, the reason you go for this battalion is due to its very high Hit+ bonus when maxed. Lysethia and to a lesser extent Hubert have very good reasons to want it due to that, specially in fast/efficiency runs where you may not want to master Archer for Hit+20 with them. Macuil is simply indispensable if that's the case as you can simply focus instructions on Authority and ignore bows. But even if you feel like going for hit+20, it doesn't hurt having an extra +30 hit on top either, specially when you run into enemies like 180 Avo Cyril in Crimson Flower Endgame. Indech Sword Fighters: 8/10 Retribution is busted, nuff said. Being able to counter back at any range with any 1-range weapon means you can set up enemy phase steamrollers with ease. Only reason I don't rank it higher is due to its high authority. It has very solid stats too fwiw, as it allows the user to get a hit boost and a crit boost to set up enemy phase offense themselves with something like Wrath equipped; although that unit should ideally have a ranged weapon too. Cichol Wyvern Co.: 8/10 It's the 2nd best non-DLC flying battalion by far, only held back by its high authority requirement. Only flying one that can hit 4-tiles ahead with its gambit; even if assault troop isn't that great it's not like flying battalions have much to look forward to either. And it has very solid stats too, particularly for any potential dodge tank that wants to use Avo-stacking with (Battalion) Wrath. Cethleann Monks: 1/10 There is no reason to use this battalion, unless you really need the hit boost and Macuil is with another unit. But I'd argue you've already used too many offensive mages in your team if that's the case. The authority requirement just makes it really stiff to use too, and your healers have better ranged spells by then too. Holy Knights of Seiros: 4/10 Fun fact; this battalion can't be bought if you go Crimson Flower, but you can still get it if you do Alois' paralogue while he was recruited in ch11. That's about the most notable thing I can think of though, because it's otherwise a very average battalion; not bad, but not great, just all around average.

I gave her a follow on Instagram, these are great!

Does this mean eventually there will be a Switch FE parent board as well? Edit in 2023; yea this topic should probably be unpinned now

yeah, particularly in part 4 enemy stats tend to be inflated to really high values, more than should be reasonably possible. It's also probably contributing to why your characters don't feel like they're getting better, aside capping early enemies are just thicc in RD. I think the devs went too hard at Silver and Gold Knights after PoR, and pretty much made them be just balanced without excelling at anything by restricting their caps. I pretty much went with them for taxi utility in the tower: ferry units with rescue drops and trade stuff quickly, and supporting whoever else they want if they have a good affinity. Archsages, Saints, and Mist (Valkyrie) are pretty much staff utility, which Elincia does better than any of them already if you ask me since she requires much less investment to stay useful and can just fly to safety to not be a liability. Considering that Micaiah is forced deployed, and given how a) stats cap fast, b) generous the game is at giving you tower-ready units and c) how the final two sections of the tower have much higher resistance enemies over defense, I personally think only two staff users are really worth bringing along; so this also leaves very little room for anyone else. A tome user can be good in the first (and maybe 3rd) chapter of the tower though, but they really fall off afterwards.

I think male Byleth is the one featured in that "heroes of old" wheel right at the beginning of the direct footage

So this Fell Dragon, "Sombron" is suddenly starting to come back again after 1000 years, the same time Alear has been sleeping apparently. If I recall correctly; isn't that the same amount of time as Grima from Awakening? They also come back after 1000 years or so. I know this fell dragon is different, but is there like a family of them? Is that where they're going with this story? Just find the similarities peculiar. I'm wondering how much truth we're being told too. Wouldn't be the first time the past was rewritten (Rhea got away with it in 3H). But for now I guess all we can do is trust that they were created with the intent of good, and are now being misused (which is also reasonable).

Come to think of it, the story really seems to be taking cues from Lord of the Rings, which also took cues from old mythology. The whole "rings can be corrupted" subplot seems to indicate that's where the plot lore is going. I wonder if there's going to be a "ring to rule them all" in Engage...

Well... Lord of the Rings got away with 20. --- I dunno how I feel about the whole "blue" vs "red" theme they clearly got going on. Feels really predictable and cliche. Trailer was cool though and its fun seeing more FE characters getting to show bad sides as well. I think that's what piqued my interest the most.

I suppose this might be playstyle, but being in a 5mov class with only Frozen Lance (which is 1-range) to fight with wasn't exactly that great for me. I just adjutanted Hubert instead to master Archer and Sniper quick with Knowledge Gem equipped. He gives +mt to Edelgard anyways and she still had to master Hit+20 (thanks to her bow bane), so it was a non-issue finding a good unit to adjutant him to when it came time to master Sniper. Lance of Ruin uses Umbral Steel too, which is a much more common drop that you can get from breaking monster barriers. Repairing it is a lot easier as a result. Arcane Crystal, as Shadow Mir pointed out, is only available in bulk once you can buy it from the Dark Merchant, late into the game. I still liked Sniper Hubert mind you, but I do think that the lack of steady ore to upkeep the Magic Bow was what made it more of a pain to keep it up. That's all I'm saying. My path was Noble -> Monk -> Mage -> Dark Mage (for -avo support) -> Archer -> Sniper

Mordecai in RD is surprisingly good considering how bad most Laguz units have it in that game due to their transformation mechanics. He has like 16 base defense untransformed, only 5 points less than Brom (who is an armored unit lol). Transforming him gives him a whooping 32 defense and lets him tank hard, hit like a truck, on top of having 9 move.

The main benefit of Magic Bow+ is that forged you can get 3-range with it, so essentially a 5-range Hunter's Volley as Sniper. Getting her to Sniper isn't a ton of work necessarily either; Magic+2, Fiendish Blow, Hit+20 are pretty much the only masteries she cares about. She easily leans towards those classes too, and mastering Archer is easy as an adjutant. However, I will agree that it's expensive to maintain. I haven't specifically tried Mercedes as Sniper, but I have tried Hubert as a Sniper and he runs into what I imagine would be the same issue for her and probably Hanneman; Magic Bow+ eventually breaks, requires Arcane Crystals to repair which are not common until late-game, and it doesn't help that Hunter's Volley costs 5 durability. I'd say that it's more of a side build more than anything.

Ah I see. I am going to guess that's why Nuvelle Chambarlain was her battalion, for the +8mt and the +10hit to help with the bow range hit penalty and give her an extra oomph. The difference in magic stat is about 5 points between Dorothea vs Lysethia, on average anyways by level 30 iirc. This is assuming Dorothea follows a pretty standard Commoner -> Monk -> Mage -> Warlock -> Gremory path, vs Lysethia following Noble -> Monk -> Priest -> Bishop -> Gremory. It's a difference, but not a massive difference honestly. The reason I tend to prefer Lysethia is moreso because Warp, Dark Spikes and Luna are just plain better spells. There's a funny meme but effective setup with Dorothea you can do though, if you master Gremory for Defiant Magic and equip her with the Thyrsus staff. She'll damage herself each turn, activate the +8 magic boost, and then you can reap the benefits of both combat and extra Physic range. It's silly, and not at all "optimal" but it's very entertaining. And yeah personally I agree with Dark Holy Elf; I go for mages offensively when I need them to kill specific enemies. Armors are one of them, but that's also why I like dark spikes. Some mounted units can be annoyingly sturdy as well I find. Typically I tend to stick to just one unit for that kinda role.

Boucheron (Axe Fighter) revealed today, and he has 4mov as well. I went to check back and you're right, it's 5move for the unpromoted mounted units. So it's probably safe to assume that most promotions will upgrade movement, maybe excluding classes like General/Fortress Knights and Sages/Warlocks. For more defensive focused objectives, I personally hope they go with smaller maps myself. As long as they don't have a side objective to kill a boss and end it quickly, defending can be made pretty fun; and it doesn't have to be a long turn count either, it can be even as little as "defend for 6 turns" to win. See FE PoR ch5 for an e.g.; they can still have a boss, just don't make defeating the commander part of the win-state. They can even throw reinforcements out every turn, if they have same-turn move reinforcements that will also give a lot more value to traditionally more defensive but slow classes (like armors) and possibly make plugging forts/stairs a priority. I can see a lot of interesting defensive gameplay coming out of having small maps; and defensive objectives is something that FE has rarely done well imho. For offensive objectives, that's where I can see bigger maps being more beneficial since part of the challenge is not just dealing with enemy groups, but also figuring out how to get to the next group before more reinforcements arrive or before a thief runs away with a chest item (for e.g.). And yeah I guess the devs must think that the bow weakness is enough of a weakness. Depends if they can dismount for terrain bonuses (I'm guessing no in this game). It'll depend how many enemies with bows there are to enforce that check too though, I remember Awakening had a lot of enemies that used bows and flying classes had a rougher time compared to other games.

How does everyone feel about the low movement values we've seen so far? Going off the most recent and latest character trailers: every grounded infantry unit we have seen so far has 4-move; Etie, Louis, Celine, Framme, Cramme and Alear. Effectively, that also means Armors and magical classes are the only ones we've seen so far who haven't had their movement reduced, thus being on par with rest of the grounded classes we've seen so far. While I can see the sense of making ranged classes have 4-move (along with armors cuz it's an FE trait), the one I'm more surprised about is Alear's dragon class being also 4-move, since it's a melee combat class. mounted units (whether on Horse or Pegasus) so far have also only been shown with 6-move; Vander, Alfred and Cloe. Only way so far to increase movement seems to be through Rings; Sigurd being the only one shown to increase move+1. Though it wouldn't be a far off guess to assume that consumables like boots or shoes of the wind, and equipment like the march ring, could come back as well. This is for classes seen so far as well, so it's still TBD but movement seems to have been reduced as a whole compared to previous entries. Personally I'm hoping this means that map sizes will be smaller than previous entries, which have gotten pretty carried away with size in my opinion. -- In regards to hybrid classes, we really haven't gotten any that stand out if you ask me. The best ones like Enlightened One and Grandmaster were just passably good, and could still be outclassed by just focusing on doing one of those two things better. In general I've found hybrid classes and roles are best moreso in the early games, where stats are low enough that you can viably pick to do one thing or the other (like Tactician in Awakening). I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing happen with Celine either in Engage.

Nice going! I'm curious about your choice for Darting Blow with Leonie; typically since she spams PBV for me, I find it better to put Str+2 on her. Did you go for a doubling build with her instead that didn't rely on that art?

That's really weird to hear, Paladins are one of the better classes in that game if you ask me. There's plenty of good lances and combat arts to pair them with, and unlike Wyverns it can equip grounded battalions and adjutants for better support effects. Even if just using a paladin for support; not a flashy role to just gambit or shove, then canto away. But still useful given the mobility they have. I think it's a pretty good class in 3H, I dunno. I guess Koei wanted Great Knights and Bow Knights to be the "upgrades" though in practice having near-identical stat mods and also having to deviate to another rank in something entirely different to certify does make them more of a "side-grade" more than anything, for most units anyway. Just guessing.

I haven't played genealogy tbh. Though I don't remember them being that bad in Awakening either; they did get a bit gimped in stats but for main campaign (at least for Awakening) they were still a fine class to have. I think what really hurt them moreso in Awakening was the enemy density of bow wielding units, specially for DLC maps. But it depends if you count those too. (I'm drawing a blank on BB, been a while since I played it) Cavaliers and Paladins have a pretty good track record too though. Agree that RD nerfed them a lot in general, although I don't think they were underwhelming in 3H either. Loss of speed growth isn't a huge dealbreaker for me in that game due to how some of the lance combat arts can OHKO.

That's one of the games where Wyverns were a tad underwhelming indeed, they really restricted their speed stat. Also they can't dismount and that games very open maps are filled with enemies wielding bows. Still it's not a bad class either if your goal is to clear the campaign, flight and 8 move is still good to have as long as you get the right skills with them. For DLC chapters though, you're better off as either Hero or Berserker if male. I would also say Wyverns have the most consistent and best record in the series myself. Cavaliers/Paladins, Dancers/Refreshers, and Pegasus/Falcon Knights also up there. Maybe even Priests and Clerics too, though not as good. But most games have strong utility staves or white spells, in particular Warp and Rescue, that make having a staff user valuable even if you don't like using healing staves/spells.

Sans Silver Snow, Cyril is actually a pretty good unit and I recommend you give him a try if you ever do another route. Point-Blank Volley at C+ bows is basically Swift Strikes but with a bow and is really good for letting you double anything with any bow on your turn. If you recruit him in Chapter 5 he's at C bows automatically so he basically has PBV on join if you tutor him. He's also at C axes to reclass immediately to Brigand for good stat modifiers and can start mastering it for Death Blow, so he's a pretty good unit in VW an AM runs if you ask me. Can be instantly useful as soon as he joins. -- For your SS run, I'll echo that having multiple units that are good with bows for the final map is going to be very helpful. I'm personally fond of running Wyvern Lord Petra using Brave Bows for player phase offense in that last map against the flying enemies (lack of bowfaire doesn't matter, the extra effective damage makes that up).

Uh, this is a 2019 thread... Since it's been necro'd already though, to give an up to date answer: Umbral Steel can be farmed from breaking all barriers of a Demonic Beast, including the ones that are bosses (Black Beast, Lord of the Desert/Lake, etc). You also get some from certain chapters as rewards, like Ch9 and Sothis paralogue. It's a pretty common ore and I highly encourage using all relics until they break, then repairing them again with Umbral Steel. The only exception is Aymyr, which needs the rarer Agarthium instead to be repaired. And yes, it gets repaired twice; once when it turns into the Sublime form, and again post-timeskip as long as it's in a units inventory before timeskip (the latter is true with every weapon).