[unpopular opinion: I don't like the gameplay of Fates Conquest]

As a fan of Conquest, here's how I look at these complaints: 

1: Having less characters matters less when you have more customizable units. Take Effie for example. She can go through the usual route of one shotting things as a Great Knight, but she could instead go Maid after getting Sol from marrying Arthur to make her very durable on enemy phase with 1-2 range, or she could friendship Mozu to become a kinshi to deal with maps with a lot of terrain. How you choose to use a unit matters more than what units you choose to use.

2: I feel like this a result from playing maps too passively. Playing aggressively on maps makes the game a lot more engaging, as you really have to think ahead in terms of positioning for things like shelter dancing and makes you worry about reaching one rounding benchmarks. Ninja cave is a good example of this, as if you play slow, the map takes forever and makes it easy for you to lose out on Saizo. But if you play aggressively and find out ways of how to one round them, you can easily breeze through the map without having to worry about Saizo or Poison Strike.

3: Children can be disregarded without much loss. While they can become quite powerful, they tend to be only a nice bonus more than anything else.

4: The skill system requires being proactive about the enemy you are engaging, which already happen with the harder fire emblems due to stat variation. Most skills don't matter if you one round the enemy. RNG also doesn't matter that much as there's always a way to make enemies less threatening. Like Kaden in Ch 19 on Lunatic has 18 crit, so with a Bronze weapon and a pair up, a unit only needs 6 Luck to get a 0 Crit rate from them. Or you could've instead stacked enough defense to survive taking a Crit, stack enough speed where his only attack gets blocked by the dual gauage, or attack him at range with hunters knife, etc.

I think the core of the issues you're having is trying to play without resetting at all, which results a lot of defensive play. I'd say try the game by approaching it with an aggressive strategy in mind for each map and see if it works out. Here's a good example of this.

[You must pick one character to give Knight as their Heart Seal class]

Been playing through Conquest again, figured I might as well show an example of how getting Rally Speed in Chapter 19 works in practice.

[You must pick one character to give Knight as their Heart Seal class]

Promoted 15/1 GK Effie averages 22 Strength and 13 Spd. With a Steel Lance, her personal, and C Lances, she reaches 36 atk. With a Speed Pair up, that's enough to one round the paired up Knights and Wyvern Riders in Ch 13, even considering weapon triangle disadvantage with the latter.

By Chapter 22 she can rely on Rally Speed, so she can get a +Str Pair up instead of just a straight speed one. An average 15/12 GK Effie averages 31 Str and 19 Spd, so with a Berserker Pair up, Rally Speed,  and Speed tonic, she reaches 54 Atk and 29 Spd with a Steel Lance. That's enough to one round the Paired Oni chieftains, who are substantially bulkier than anything on the map. (And she wouldn't even need the tonic if you allowed cooking.) 

So no, an early promoted Effie does not require Strength Tonics to be capable of one rounding all game long. 

I dont understand why you'd complain how Effie can't double some of the fastest enemies in conquest when it doesn't even benefit her. She can simply opt to one shot ninjas and kitsune instead, which is a lot more useful than just having overkill Speed.

What investment? A Heart Seal is really the only thing of value lost, and an infinite amount of them become available 2 chapters later. The easiest way of beating that chapter has always been just setting up a juggernaught and having them solo sections of the map. This may take more thought and positioning, but it's not really that much different in terms of investment.

For someone who's claiming that an early promoted effie does not consistently double midspeed enemies or one round, you sure aren't providing any numbers to actually proves that claim

[You must pick one character to give Knight as their Heart Seal class]

4 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

IF it hits.

Base Ch 16 Felica has 80 hit on the Beast Stone + Nine tails (Ch 16 Jakob also has 77 hit). Even if you miss, you could always just shelter them out of danger or kite them.

And that's only if you want no investment. If you don't mind spending Dragon Vein Points,you could get Izana who has a 100 hit on them.

Though I got to ask, how do you take care of them? 66 avoid is rough for anyone. Offensive staves are actually one of the more accurate options against them. What do you do for them instead?

[You must pick one character to give Knight as their Heart Seal class]

2 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Ah, after we start ignoring averages, we start using a certain playstyle as an argument?

Doing the math with your earlypromoted Effie, you have access to at minimum 15 and at max 29 chapters. Since you want her to double and actually kill you´ll need STR/SPD tonics for 300 together. That´s 4500-8700 gold, not counting eventual HP/DEF/RES tonics, the fact that the initial tonics aren´t enough to get her to reliably 1rko…

No substantial cost. Right.

I could not find anything on captures having a low internal level.

A lvl 1 chapter 14 Kinshi reclassed into FK has 32HP/14STR/12DEF, with B rank lances for +1 dmg. That gives us, with the Beastkiller: 14 + 30 + 1 = 45, which kills, out of 8 different thresholds I could identify, 4 type of Kitsune/Ninetails -> their respective bulk being 32, 42, 41, 40. There are Kitsune/Ninetails with 47, 50, 59 and 53 total bulk. Our FK only doubles the Beastrune Kitsune, who are getting 1HKO´ed anyway. 

Our FK has 15SKL/13LCK and B Lances. This should be, with Beastkiller 85hit, 119 total hit. There are the following avoid stats: 45, 27, 62, 44, 66, 53, 76.

Our FK has 32HP/12DEF for total bulk of 44. With your tonics that +5/+2, so 51 total. There are 9, potentially 11 damage thresholds I could identify: 26, 36, 42, 38, 48, 48 + 4, 50 + 4, 51. +4 stems from Evenhanded. Ninetails with Beaststone+ and Kaden will double our FK, for 100/108 and 102 damage.

When did I ever claim that averages don't matter? All I'm claiming is that units need less levels to hit benchmarks with cooking.

Effie never really needs Strength tonics while doubling. And you're not applying a Speed Tonic every chapter. They should be only used when their relevant for benchmarks. You're not going to put a Speed Tonic on her for Ch 17, 19, and 25 for instance.

You only reclass for the final level, so it's really 124 Hit for the most of it. Combined with the Skl/Luk Tonic plus Attack stance that's 139. Add on Inspiring song and that's 144. That's enough to consistently hit the normal beaststone and Rune Kitsune, and a freeze staff will even out the nine tails evasion.

None of the enemies from the north even benefit from the gimmick. And It's easy enough to lure them to side near the mountain and have them make use of the terrain.  

The whole thing was just supposed an example anyways. If  you don't want to it this way, you could just feed with attacks stance Anonymous Speed does. It's not that difficult to do. I only do it there because it enemies are pretty flimsy and it make a otherwise terrible map interesting, on top of benefiting giving a a pretty substantial boon for the rest for the campaign. 

[You must pick one character to give Knight as their Heart Seal class]

Beastbane only has 2x might multipler, not a 3x one.

Ch 14 Kinshi has 32 HP and 14 Def as a Falco. That means with an HP And Def Tonic, they can take a hit from even the life and death beast rune kitsune and one shot them in return.

And on two shelter units, you can get them to Level 5  pretty easily just having them kite and clear the the north side of the map.

[You must pick one character to give Knight as their Heart Seal class]

22 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:

Except of course the amount of tonics you stuff into your chapter 13 prepromoted Effie all the way through the end, just to make the easy part of the game easier. I see we are getting into the “averages don´t matter” part of the discussion.

Mhm, Pegasus that attacks Kitsune. I do like me some suicidal ponies. 

If you remind yourself of my initial statement – fast hoshidans. It was you came up with slow and middling speed enemies, something I even reminded you of in my first reply.

Oh, I was looking at your example with Effie doubling Ryoma with a Raider Naginata and figured why the hell not? Also, the fun of theorycrafting. 

Every combat unit should be regularly given tonics to reach one rounding benchmarks. You are given plenty of gold in conquest to do this, so it is not a substantial cost at all.

Ch 14 Kinshi Knight is capable of oneshoting every enemy on the map except the boss just with base stats. It's not difficult at all to feed them kills with shelter dancing, and they gain a good amount of exp thanks to their low internal level.

Again, not every enemy in Hoshido is a ninja. You are really overstimating the speed of enemies if you believe that Effie cannot double consistently. 

Raider Naginata is from 10 Visitor Points from the rankings. Those are cumulative from every save file,  so I don't think it's that unlikely that have one.

[You must pick one character to give Knight as their Heart Seal class]

Quote

Not seeing costs when permanently having to inject resources to keep up a unit’s performance lends credence to saying u dumb

I see, you didn´t understand again. The materials you have are RNG, getting more is a hassle on a good day, especially if you want the juicy 2 ingredient meals, I´m laughing at gambling in the arena. Just reset bro, mmkay? It´s also only once/map unless you time abuse it. And then there´s the question of who cooks and don´t start with getting the chef hat for a casual 30 Quartz, which is a Hoshidan resource. That´s a lot of fumbling around.

I wasn´t discussing the value of Rally SPD but pointing towards the cost of acquiring it. Which, incidentally, falls in the category of opportunity cost, because if you are doing something with a character you are not doing something else with them. Considering there are only 3 units in CQ who have it in their kit naturally, one of which is your dancer, the other her kid and the other locked behind a reclass.

Doubling Takumi isn´t the benchmark you make it out to be, the guy has 30 SPD; if you want to impress me have him double the PU SM in Ryomas chapter, although I already know how to pull that off. You are also wrong: Benny can double Reina; down below is the setup on how to enable that.

There are not any substantial costs associated with early promoting with how many ways there are to boost stats. Losing out on a couple stats that are not even guaranteed is not worth having to deal with Effie being a 4 movement unit when she could have 7 on top of having a much easier time doubling. 

The Arena resetting once a map is more than enough to cover the material costs of anything in mycastle. You don't even need a designated chef, just the standard buffs will do. Food isn't even that big of a deal for the amount of attention it's getting. It's just a nice bonus that is there so that units are less dependent on level ups.

It is not a significant cost to get Rally Speed at all. Even if you didn't want to use player character, you could capture a Kinshi in Ch 14 and have them stab a few Kitsune in 19 with the beast slayer to gain three levels. That only costs 1 heart seal to get a unit who can improve all your other units substantially 

Moving goal posts from midspeed enemies to the fastest enemies in the entire game is quite the stretch. I also don't understand how we can include DLC when it shares the same issue of food of not being permanently available. Even if DLC were to be included, it only weakens the idea that units need 20/20 stats since they pick up skills like Dancing Blade or Speed +2 for effectively no cost at all.

[You must pick one character to give Knight as their Heart Seal class]

On 11/9/2022 at 11:08 AM, Imuabicus said:

That´s all very cool but it ignores the simple fact that your early promotion brings with it constant opportunity costs throughout the rest of the game and that can and will snowball; when lategame is harder than earlygame, and for CQ I´d mark it down as significantly harder than earlygame, then early promotion can absolutely be bad [depending on the unit and class TM - see Elise]. To top it all off, WF is a skill. Skills can be unequipped when not needed.

With your theorizing here you are constantly purchasing Tonics, cooking meals which are RNG dependant and limited not only in outcome but also requirements. There´s only so many units who can have so many Rallies, Rallies like SPD requiring most likely either classchange or capturing. What does reclassing and capturing do? It uses ressources, ressources that either cost money, are again rng dependant or use time, potentially negating the supposed benefit when you wanted/needed it. Using kids requires using their parents and that influences who gets deployed where and that changes the way a map may be approached, all the more in CQs earyl game with it´s limited deployment slots. The same goes for pairing up units.

Additionally, the only tools you gain throughout the campaign are more skills - dancing, meals, shelter dances are available early on.

Lategame isn't much harder than earlygame when using all the tools given. I don't see how promoting early is a significant cost if the unit in question can still one round consistently.

Cooking is not RNG dependant with the Level 3 mess hall, since all units benefit from the buffs. Getting the ingredients also isn't a concern since you can just gamble at the Arena for additional copies.

Rally Speed benefits everyone on the team. Getting units like Xander, Leo, and Effie to double without having to rely on levels is a massive boon that is well worth its weight in gold. It's one of the biggest tools in being able to one round consistently in the late game.

The difference the late game has over the early game is the amount stats you can stack. In the late game you have stats from supports, consistent food buffs, Rallies, promoted skills, and reclassing options. You could have Benny double Takumi at Endgame without a single speed proc or Speedwing, but there's no way he'd be able to double Reina in his join chapter.

[Making Wary Fighter more interesting]

I think a good of way of making it intreseting would be to halve the effects of all debuffs on top of its current effect.

Debuffs can very threatening on the late game, so having a way to directly counter it gives General a unique niche that can't be found anywhere else. It'd be an actual good trade off between being able to double and being bulky.

[You must pick one character to give Knight as their Heart Seal class]

See I find it more conductive just to get somebody to one round on enemy phase in Chapter 17. Defensive strategies like that give more time for Saizo to do something dumb, so I prefer to prefer to blitz the chapter.

Benchmarks to do so look intimidating at first, but it's actually pretty reachable, especially if you're using meals and forges. Like a base Shura is capable of one rounding master ninjas with heart seal and +2 bronze forge even with a Steel Shiriken Debuff.

[You must pick one character to give Knight as their Heart Seal class]

36 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:

Yeah, but the common sentiment strewn across "Rate the unit" threads across the internet has her marked down for problems with speed and not "if you waste resources unnecessarily on chapter 13 you can double the slowest enemies in the game in that chapter, only with no real benefit since they are also the tankiest varaint of enemies in the game and you will take significant counterdamage since you are vulnerable to the chapters Beastkillers."

Not good enough in CQ. Lategame enemies are higher quality than the rest of the franchise and debuffing via non combat exists. You need 20/20 stats to melee or tank.

The point I'm trying to make is that Effie can consistently double mid speed enemies throughout the game. This makes her bulkier thanks to shield gauge and doesn't require much more than speed pair up and Tonic.  Wary Fighter is more of hindrance than a boon for her.

Lategame enemies may be stronger, but so are the tools you are given to face them. You can easily have rallies, food, shelter dances, and can stack skills to make up for the difference. You don't need raw stats when you have so many other ways to make stats.

Let me portray an example. An 15/15 Effie has 20 Speed. With S Rank Kaze and Speed Tonic, that's 28. Add on a Rally and Meal results on 34 Speed. That is more than enough to double the majority of enemies throughout chapter 22-24, the bulk of where you fight hoshidan soldiers in the late game.

[You must pick one character to give Knight as their Heart Seal class]

30 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

To be fair, while Benny admittedly loses strength, he does provide Fierce Mien, which is a nice accuracy boost. You also get better numbers out of supports, though the difference isn't that large overall.

I think which is better depends on how fast we're assuming the character is recruited from the persuasion mechanic. I kinda favour Benny myself because the personal is cool for reliability (which matters more in this game than ones with Divine Pulse, IMO), and some of the best maps for pure physical tanking are either before Generic General joins (17) or before I'd personally assume he is able to join (19).

Fierce Mein is pretty cool, but by itself isnt enough to make up for the difference. Especially since he has to be raised up to Wary Fighter to even start being useful.

How fast you recurit generics is a totally fair point. But I don't think Chapter 17 is a good map for him at all, since the chapter becomes a lot easier if you have units that can one round the ninjas, which he can't do at all.

27 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:

What does CQ13 not have a lot of? Hoshidan enemies. What else does it have? Some of the slowest enemy classes in the game. What did I forget to mention? The faster enemies (Samurai, Ninja, Pegasus) tend to be physically frail, thus enabling Effie to 1HKO.

Having promoted units at chapter 13 strikes me as unnessecary and wasteful.

The example was supposed how she can regularly double even considering her base Speed. It not like every enemy in conquest is an ninja.

Early promoting is good. Going from 4 from 7 movement  and having speed to double is a pretty big boon. You don't need 20/20 stats to be useful in the lategame.

[You must pick one character to give Knight as their Heart Seal class]

37 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

All that trouble for what is, to be blunt, a worse version of a unit I can get just by playing the damn game? Pass.

Average 20/4 General Benny:

HP 39.75 | Str 22.80 | Skl 22.20 | Spd 7.05 |

Lck 16.60 | Def 31.00 | Res 15.75

Ch 18 General boss:

HP 47 (+8) | Str 28  (+6) | Skl 20 (-2) | Spd 11 (+4) |

12 Lck (-4)  | Def 31 (0) | Res 15 (0)

+7 Strength (A-Rank Lances) is quite significant, especially since they don't need any levels learn Wary Fighter.

I can understand not wanting to use generics, but to say that they are weaker is just wrong unless you're stacking skills through supports.

[You must pick one character to give Knight as their Heart Seal class]

2 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

5 base SPD tho

Hoshidans are fast as fuck

This is also Fates. There is more than enough to ways stack stats to shore up any weakness, especially since Effie has a good speed growth.

For example, an average Effie promoted at level 15 averages around 13 speed as a great knight. Throw in a master ninja Kaze Pair up and a Speed Tonic, that's 20 Speed. That's enough to double almost every enemy in Chapter 13.

And that's just the normal stuff. If we threw on everything such as Speed Meals, Special Dance, and a Raider Naginata, she could double Ryoma in Chapter 12.

Wary Fighter is just not very good since it does nothing to help reach one rounding benchmarks to prevent seal skills and poison strike and drastically slows down the rate shield gauge goes up.

It only helps Benny because he is on the lower end of the cast since he lacks a good offense and his speed is unsalavageable without massive favoritism. If you wanted to use an Armor Knight, Ch 18 General Boss is a much better unit.

[From Houses to Hopes: AM Maddening Log]

-One thing you could do with Byleth is make them a Falco Knight with Battalion Desperation. The required ranks are bit lower, and so long as you are regularly cooking speed meals, she can double and one round pretty consistently. Might require a Speed wing or two plus Weight -3 to keep that up by the late game though.

-Dimitri doesn't really need an +Atk Adjutant. One rounding benchmarks with crits aren't hard to reach. He could one round 90% of enemies at endgame with 30 Strength alone, and he averages much more than that by level 40. Giving him someone like Ashe would be good enough. 

-Likewise, Mercedes also doesn't need one. A Brave magic attack deals so overkill the only part of the game you'll have to worry about damage is Endgame, where enemy HP is highly inflated. And even then she will be able to one round so long as she stays on her averages. Also no point in making her a Valkyrie, Hit+20 is more than adequate with some of the hit boosting magic battalions.

-Str +2 > Lance Crit +10 for Sylvain. Won't matter much by the time he gets S Lances, but would help out a lot all game long better than +2 Def. 

-Don't expect Ingrid to double as Bow Kinght. Speed Growth alone is not enough to consistently double by the lategame. Skills and Classes play way more of a role in doubling than growths do.

-Would not recommend Paladin Ferdinand as a tanking role like you described. Face tanking as anything other than a Fortress or Great Knight is just not effective. They take way too much damage to take more than 1-2 rounds of combat. 

[Battle of the Battalions, Endgame: Which Battalion was Best?]

Empire Calvary: 4/10. +4 Atk and Def are not going to cut when you re starting to unlock Paralogue battalions.

Empire Armored Corp: 8/10. While the battalion it self is pretty lackluster, Impregenable Wall is a real game changer. Not only can it make any unit capable of surviving any enemy phase, it also serves a lot of other useful roles as well. It can protect Vengeance users from siege equipment, it can help boost the rate of class masteries, it can divert enemies to attack a Wrath user rather than another unit, it can be used to deny same turn reinforcements, etc. That gambit opens up so many alternative strategies that would otherwise not be possible that giving it any lower of score would be undervaluing it imo. 

Empire Pegasus Corp: 7.5/10. I have to agree with Dark Holy Elf that this is the best non B rank flying battalion. +15 hit is par with most B and A rank battalions, and the fact that it's only D rank only amplifies how good it is. Really, it's enough to take it to endgame when paired with a powerful combat art like Venegnce or Swift Strikes.

Empire Wyvern Co: 6.5/10. It's amazing how this is pretty much on par with Empire Cavs, but because it has a pair of wings, the score increases by an entire quarter. 

Empire Snipers: 6/10. And we can see the opposite of that as well. It's an alright battalion, but outside of giving hit, it's just another decent stat stick.

Empire Pavise: 4.5/10. While I do agree it's not very good in general, I am going to have to give a shout out for enabling Def Stacking on a Fortress Knight for Hunting by Daybreak. Enabling a unit like Caspar  to do something useful in that chapter does give it a concrete, if extremely niche, use I say.

Empire Magic Users: 5/10. I find this battalion to be pretty meh since I only really evaluate by it's stats. By the time Chapter 8 rolls around, I typically have units focused on enemy phase already set up, so offensive gambits fall by the wayside in terms of usefulness pretty drastically. If you played without enemy phase units, I can see why you'd rate this battalion higher for paralogue maps. But even then, the Black Eagles are not going to be fighting many paralogues if you're not going to recruit out of house like a lot of people here.

[Battle of the Battalions, Endgame: Which Battalion was Best?]

Can confirm neither battalion shows up in Chapter 3.

Essbar Research Group: N/A. I don't have online services, so I wouldn't have any way to obtain it normally. Based off it's stats I'd give it an easy 8/10, but I have no idea how obtainable it is. Personally, I don't think this battalion should be rated at all just because I don't think anyone here has actually used it.

Nuvelle Chamberlain: 8/10. It has stats on par with Leicester Mercs at C Rank. B Rank battalions are some of the biggest increases in power you can give to a unit, so having one almost just as powerful at C Rank is a really big boon on authority bane units like Felix. Not having access to a offensive gambit is something I find not to be a big deal, as it arrives when units are starting to consistently one round and enemy phase set ups are also starting up. Shame how they patched the Battleground Cafe glitch though. 

Nuvelle Attendants: 6.5/10. Basically the same as the above except on mages. Which is good considering how lacking good mage battalions since it's pretty much Gloucester and that's it until either the time skip or A authority.  Hapi really appreciates it, but having no hit on it makes it kinda of suffering until Uncanny Blow comes in, and so it makes me knock down the score.

Nuvelle Stewards: 5.5/10. Mixed setups in Three Houses rightfully get a bad rep, but I don't think that should be applied to the battalions. Even without any focus on magic at all, units like Grapplers are pretty easily able to one round things like Fortress knights with Aura Gauntlets when they wouldn't be able to with regular gauntlets. The only problem with this battalion is that there's really not much reason to use it over Leicester Dicers. But hey, at least it has a good gambit with some amazing charm to go with it for some of the harder paralogue fights.

Seiros Brawlers: 2/10 Brawlers without any of the availability, which was the only reason why they were any good to begin with. 

Seiros Armored: 2/10 If it had Impregnable Wall maybe there could be some discussion here. As is it's just bad filler.

[Battle of the Battalions, Endgame: Which Battalion was Best?]

Merchant Military: 3.5/10 I'll be honest I overlooked this one to the point where I didnt even know it provided magic. Having know that now, I can see it being okay filler for mages 2-3 chapter. Poison Tactic is cool even if doesn't have any might since its the stagger effect that makes gambits good anyways. Having 1 charm would mean it'd need a lot of set up though.

Seiros Archers: 7/10.

Bandits: 3/10. Worse Seiros Mercs with half the availability. Really by the time you get it there's no almost no practical reason to use it, but it's still has ok stats on paper, so it escapes the absolute worst category.

The Rest: 1/10. Not even worth typing out for.

[Battle of the Battalions, Endgame: Which Battalion was Best?]

2 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

And yes I feel a need to stress again we're arguing the minutiae of half a point.

Physical units have a greater variety of ways to boost their accuracy. Every single D rank combat art in the game gives at minimum +10 hit. Their greater battalion selection helps as well as being able to swap to a more accurate weapon or combat art. And if all else fails, nail them with a gambit. You can still set up gambit boosts in a forest, and gambit accuracy ignores terrain just like magic does.

Lysithea and Marianne would like some Hit, please.

Physical units have a far wider variety of battalions to choose from and they care a great deal more about other stats than mages do, like avoid and crit. And a lot of great value battalions just sort of have Hit to begin with.

The +10 hit of Seiros Mercs isn't the premier reason why you take that battalion.

I need to stress again that it was never about the actual rating, it was the about the logic that went into it.

Combat arts alone are not enough to secure hit rates. Going from hit rates mid 70's to to mid 80's on dangerous enemies like thieves is huge boon considering true hit. And outside of battalions, there's no other good way of increasing Hit in the earlygame. Weapons can't be forged, Supports are non existent, and there are no great hit boosting skills in play. Mages don't need Hit as badly because they are either attacking at range or have accurate magic arts.

Golden Deer Mage hit rates with spells are still terrible even with +10 Hit. Magic Combat arts are the best way of growing mages in the earlygame precisely because they don't have to worry about to their hit rates as much. Lysithea using a Steel Soulblade can have as much as +15 hit over miasma with +6 Might. With a Training Sword that's +30 while still hitting as hard as a tempest user. Alliance Mages can make it such that they can secure a kill with the training sword and still be able deal out damage with a steel as an option.

What selection of good +Hit battalions does Golden Deer have in the earlygame? Because there's only one that comes close to +10 Hit, and there's no way it's good.

I just legitimately don't understand how you value extremely inconsistent boons like avoid and crit greater than a way to actually get help with hit rates at a section where barely anything can be done about them.

[Battle of the Battalions, Endgame: Which Battalion was Best?]

13 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

I have spent so many more divine pulses after missing a crucial attack (or gambit, hint hint) than I ever have on being two points of damage short of making a kill. That is as true of late game as it is of early game.

There's been a lot of nitpicking already about my ratings, but you're on me for a half a point? 

The issue I'm having is that I don't see how that logic is consistent. It's apparently worth putting a zero might battalion on mages just for the Hit, but it's not as worth doing the same for physical battalions that have actual stats somehow? 

I don't get that mindset at all, especially since it should be the opposite. Physical units should prioritize Hit a lot more than them, as if they miss a finishing blow on enemy, they'll be the ones facing a counterattack instead unlike mages with spells.  

What gets me isn't the ratings of the battalions, it's the reasoning behind the ratings and if they're being applied consistently. Rating something like Kingdom Lancers better than Seiros Mercs when you'd accept no stats from Sacred Monks just for better Hit requires more elaboration than just saying it's bad for mages.

[Battle of the Battalions, Endgame: Which Battalion was Best?]

46 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Yeah? +10 hit. Better gambit. Same amount of res, spam it for more authority before the chapter ends.

...I seriously don't understand how Hit on mages is apparently so vital that it's worth equipping a 0 atk battalion for.

That goes double when you gave Seiros Mercs, a battalion that gives the same amount of Hit plus 3 Atk, a half point better than some of the worst battalions in the game.

[Battle of the Battalions, Endgame: Which Battalion was Best?]

1 minute ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Easy. The Seiros version is better in every way. So you get that one, stride, and the white magic one. Your mages are set.

You'd seriously rather get Seiros Holy Monks over Alliance Mages?

Bruh

[Battle of the Battalions, Endgame: Which Battalion was Best?]

15 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Soulblade will still be there if they're equipped with Stride instead. I don't have my mages kill things, they chip and support.

Mages should be first in line to get kills in the earlygame to get into monk to obtain an actual acceptable amount of spells. +3 Magic Attack really makes a difference in doing that, especially since that's one of the better offensive options by that point.

I just don't see the argument for putting Alliance Mages on par with some of the worst battalions in the game when it does serve a proper use unlike the other 1-2 score battalions.

[Battle of the Battalions, Endgame: Which Battalion was Best?]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Do you usually unlock these girls' budding talents by the chapter 3 battle, though? I tend to think of Faith as their biggest priority. Marianne wants C Faith ASAP for Physic, whereas Lysithea wants B Faith for Warp. Plus, each of them needs training in Authority to even equip a Magic-boosting battalion. This is especially true of Marianne, who is Authority-neutral and starts at E (rather than E+ with a boon).

Marianne starts with D+ Faith (180), so she can get C Faith (300) by Chapter 3 just with weekly goals. Same goes for her Authority.

Lysithea can unlock Soulblade while still getting B Faith in Chapter 5 with Sauna. Granted, according to my numbers it requires her using white magic ~25 times. So she may have to resort to using Nosferatu a couple times, but it's totally doable.