Eryon
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Posts posted by Eryon
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Considering how neither Gotoh or Xane actively have a high stance on humans before meeting Marth (with Gotoh changing his attitude while Xane leaves no doubt he treats Marth separate) I fail to see how we shouldn't take Xane's word on Medeus' will. He certainly had the bulk of talking dragons behind him we meet in the games/
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More or less. If anything, it called how to mind how poorly thought-out Vanilla Gaiden's attempt at doing the "big villain really had kind intentions all along" twist was since the remake didn't really address how big of a fluke Rudolph's plan was (namely, since the remake introduced Mila unsealing Falchion).
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Oh boy. If you're going to play Gaiden I recommend you save the best snark for Rudolf's Master Plan. Trust me, it deserves it.
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Medeus in his Earth Dragon form certainly ranks rather highly knowing his backstory (humans abused dragons after all they did for them, his kind were warped into monsters who he agreed to watch forever). He's also notable in that he's NOT a threat to humans when it comes to maintaining themselves and ruling themselves (at least no more than an empire like the Romans or Umayyads). Indeed, he has plenty of alliances with human lands. While also having humans in his kingdom who show no fear of being devoured.
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The Black Eagle Path by large comes off as wonky .
Much of the narrative problems listed here can just be addressed by assuming that the path was thrown in last after the core narrative was worked out. Cannibalizing content from other routes (hence Golden Deer saying much of what should be in the Church Path).
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The Western Church is but a symptom of the disease.
Rhea did not rule properly and arranged a system that divided power in the continent rather than keeping it undivided. Frankly, if Rhea insisted on humans having a major say combined with crest usage then she should not have a church, but rather a priest-king ala the caliphates among a crest wielding lineage who'd be the center of it all. His rule codified by her Bible.
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Discussion about Three Houses' plot more or less settled on the Slithers being among the weaker parts of it. To sum up their problems:
1. Edelgard and Rhea both are both big enough enemies that each can carry the plot.
2. Kronya and Solon don't have much of a place in the story even with how Kronya kills Jeralt.
3. The more interesting Slithers like Cornelia aren't interesting from being members but are interesting from their apparent relations outside of being slithers.
4. Ultimately they just serve as an excuse for Edelgard's faction to be party to mean things without being too mean.
The last point is especially key. From a sheer player pandering point, it's no surprise that there's an obvious scapegoat who commits atrocities the player would be repulsed by if committed by their leader (see Edelgard). Juuust enough deniability. You saw this in Conquest too with Anankos and King Goo.
So the question is, if we're continuing the current direction of the franchise by Three Houses, we'll we ever see a rejection of characters like Anankos and the Slithers?
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It ended in failure since she built it on denial and glory for sins committed by humans. And once she did that, did little to none to regulate human depravity despite her position.
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Rhea is ultimately a lazy woman who stalled for time so she could focus on what she put first (retrieving her mother). Rhea is also ultimately naive in her attitude towards humans. Not treating them with the regulation they needed. Dishonoring her kind for glorifying their killers.
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6 hours ago, Crysta said:
What exactly do you suggest she do?
Well for one, she could have made sure once Nemesis and his followers were put to death that their names be cursed instead of most them turned into damn saints (it'd be like a Jewish man declaring to condemn Hitler but make Joseph Goebbels and Heinreich Himmer saints). Look into acquiring their crests when doable for them to be kept safely in the watch of her and allies. Arrange for her Holy Bible to preach that men are not to use or study the crests without the grace of the goddess and/or her spokeman.
6 hours ago, Crysta said:I'm convinced it'll just make World War Edelgard happen even sooner - much how like completely gutting Germany in WWI helped actual Hitler - but I'm curious.
Modern Germany doesn't celebrate its history in WW1 to WW2 and paid reparations to those they terrorized under Hitler. Rhea in the end showed she didn't have her surviving kind's honor and keeping the humans from ruining the continent as her top priority, just stalling for time until she could find a way to get her mother back.
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6 minutes ago, timon said:
You're going around calling people out because you see "Humanity Fuck Yeah" everywhere, but you're clearly on the opposite end of the spectrum, which I'd argue is way, way worse.
Because if I look at your posts I see that "Edelgard is evil because she wants humans to rule" and people who support her are sick and just want mankind on top of everything. And now you're telling me that Rhea needed to obliterate humans a lot sooner. So I understand that humanity has done some pretty bad things, but you do realize you're a human being as well don't you? And that erasing the species is probably not a very sane nor good approach?
I speak nothing of wiping out mankind (Rhea should be above such filthy behavior). I do speak of recognizing human depravity and planning accordingly rather than just sitting back and letting said human depravity fester until World War Edelgard happens. See her shameful decision to turn Nemesis' minions into saints despite them being party to extermination. This among other decisions left a cut on Fodlan that rotted until the limb had to be removed.
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The only thing Those Who Slither show is that Rhea is a disgrace to her kind for how lenient she was with humans even after the extermination of the Goddess' Chldren. She could've done much to prevent them and other future disasters if she recognized how depraved humans really are and acted accordingly (namely by not being naive enough to think they could be trusted to not twist her mercy gifts to them for their purposes).
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1. No more cop-outs like Those Who Slither and Anankos/Slime Man to let the player's chosen faction/leader (Nohr/Empire, Xander/Edelgard) be party to massacres and destruction but still have enough plausible deniability for them to not "really" be accountable for it.
2. More strong consequences for choosing a route.
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The obvious alternative system Rhea could've tried if she was more concerned about ruling Fodlan would be to order the executions of Nemesis' followers alongside retrieving what crests she can so they can be kept within her control and those of the empire's ruling lineage.
Frankly, Judgral's Loptous provides a worthy model of governance to pursue (make a blood pact with a human who'll carry on your wish, seize his and his descendants bodies when needed, the otherwise human empire maintains their civilization on the continent). Rhea ultimately made feudalism when she should have made a divine monarchy with undivided power.
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The "untermenschen" doesn't refer to what we call race today, at least not exclusively. The Soviets had their kulaks for one. In this usage, the untermenschmen is the enemy who through his actions or perhaps his mere presence stands in the way of the full emergence of the "free and equal" "new man", answering to none but their will, for a new, "better", world.See, the "better" world would already be here if it were not for "oppressors" who represent the chains of tradition and history, and from whom the ubermenschmen must be emancipated.
That said, Edelgard yaps about monsters in human skin and building a world for humans.
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Edelgard is a Luciferean villain ala Lex Luthor.
Rhea is her greater being ala Superman.
Edelgard opposes Rhea since she reminds the former that there are bigger works than her petty concerns. A wound on her pride. Tells her she can not control as she pleases.
To see what I'm talking about:
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Rhea is an ultimately lazy ruler. Her attitude towards Fodlan communicates that she didn't really wish to rule, just buy time for her mother (and perhaps her kind) to return.
Edelgard is in the line of Stalin, Thomas Jefferson, etc. Spreading mayhem, doom, and destruction (namely directed at the kulaks or Aboriginial Americans, or just Untermenschen) to create Heaven on Earth, ruled by their brand of new men. She's effectively a modernist conqueror.
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I'll take a crack at Tellius now:
Ike and Mist: Both are the children of the lost Heron daughter. That being where they draw their strange abilities.
-Complaint with Note: The plot introduced tangents from Mist's being able to carry the Medallion of Lehran without corruption that don't go really anywhere. I suspect that this is a remnant of the earlier point in development where Mist was planned to have a bigger role as another Lord. Ike being one of the Branded helps with his role of being the one who bridges the gap between Beorc and Laguz, since he'd of both yet belong with neither (rather than being more or less a Token Good Human who's totally not like other humies).The Black Knight: Consolidated into Ashnard and Betram. Zelgius on the other hand remains a character who serves Sephiran and is a foil to Ike as another branded warrior.
-Complaint with Note: I maintain that the Black Knight is no doubt one of the worst written elements of Tellius. In PoR, he distracts spotlight that could''ve been granted to Ashnard (who's the more interesting character but doesn't have the room to show it outside of battle convos) and Bertram (who's Elincia uncle). RD tries to re-envision him as some noble rival whose death was a tragedy except it's at odds with PoR's depiction of him (see him threatening to torture and/or violate Mist). I recommend to split the role of Ike's rival off onto Ashnard (who's already something of a Dark Ike anyway), the superweapon onto Bertram, and the noble servant of Sephiran onto Zelgius.
Micaiah: No longer Sanaki's elder sister. Instead belongs to a bastard branch of the divine lineage whose presence was covered up by conspiratorial elements for leverage.
-Complaint with Note: There was really no need for Micaiah's status as the missing "real" empress. Her being able to communicate with Yune ends up canceled out by the Dual Goddesses manifesting and communicating with those outside of her bloodline anyway.
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No doubt that Three Houses' narrative would be better designed if Those Who Slither were just consolidated within the empire. I suspect that they are an artifact of an earlier version of the script where there are not any route splits and you just followed the Blue Lions.
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I refuse to approve Edelgard since she has too many supporters that are fedoras, HFYers (Humanity Fuck Yeah, look up it up, it's /tg/ lingo), or look suspiciously like advocates of "Enlightenment Progressive Conquerors Terrorizing Their Neighbors For Social Justice (or something)" ala Napoleon or Andrew Jackson, the Soviets when they seizing East Europe, or the Greater Co-Prosperity Sphere (who are being unironic about it).
I'll throw in that the Slithers should have never been included in this game since they serve as a cop-out to take the blame for actions that should have been done by imperials.
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For a villain like Grima to work one needs the following:
A. Is suitably menacing enough.
B. Has dependable minions to serve as agents who demonstrate just how dangerous the villain is.
C. Even with no redeeming qualities one should be able to buy what if anything could sell loyalty to that being's followers.
Grima had none of the approve besides the first (and that's being nice). Validar is a joke. There's really nothing about Grima that would appeal as a creed that binds Plegian society.
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They (Slithers) are just a cop-out so that Edelgard and her empire can do their little supervillain routine without making Byleth joining them becoming even more ridiculous than it is (ridiculous for anyone outside of the Humanity Fuck Yeah crowd I mean).
Take away Pieri 2.0. for Hubert (or some other BE housemate or some imperial commander character) or make her an outright subordinate of Edy. Suddenly, it's becoming harder to sell Byleth joining Team Birdies knowing Edy's (or at least her empire which she does not oppose as an institution/hegemon) a party to his father's death.
15 hours ago, Seazas said:Imagine comparing Rhea to Hitler lol.
Indeed. Hitler from all reliable evidence of his life only saw Germany's Christianity as something to be weeded out for something more suitable for his land, while showing plenty hostility towards the Vatican. Before that came, he and his regime advocated Positive Christianity (which namely denied the Jewish heritage of Jesus which is rather common enough in White/Black Nationalist narratives) when in public.
If we must make forced mentions of Mr. Hitler then we might as well say Edelgard is Hitler (she already has the Germanic conqueror bit).
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It wasn't the dragons who chose extermination over choosing to share the world. It was humans. Just as it was in Elibe.
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4 hours ago, wissenschaft said:
Are we forgetting that Rhea is a dragon. Are we going to pretend if we learned the real world was controlled by some alien being that we would be ok with that and just accept it? Yeah sure, leave the church as it is, under some crazy dragon that masquerades a human.
If the modern world's accomplishments were pinned on that alien being ala Ancient Alien conspiracies then he'd have shown that she's a capable enough ruler. Most of human history has been men being ruled over by those of a different race/ethnicity from them. Even in "homogeneous" lands like Greece, one clan would rule over others in the area through claimed descent from a founder.
Or are you going to show me the English trying to kick out the foreign Norman invaders for an English king? What made the Egyptians accept being ruled by a foreign Macedonian ruling elite for hundreds years? How did the Roman Empire survive for so long? What stopped the Hungarians from fighting to separate themselves from the German Hapsburgs? Do the Russians not consider the German Catherine the Great to be one of the greatest of Russia’s rulers? Where did the Arab Empire come from? How did the subjects of the Roman Empire agree to fight for Rome?
I must say, too much of Edelgard's supporters across the 'net come off as Humanity Fuck Yeah weirdos who complain about how the humans in James Cameron's Avatar wouldn't the "good" in that movie.
On 8/16/2019 at 10:46 PM, redlight said:If you ask me Rhea chose to establish some kind of order instead of allowing chaos to run rampant. Also, crest bearers probably would've bickered among themselves with the common folk caught in between if left to their own devises without any kind of supervision.
I think a class system would've been inevitable with crests even without Rhea. Powerful people establish fortune and reputation for their descendants to reap the benefits. The 10 Elites were massive powerhouses who had no problem passing on their gifts. The "immoral choices" that she could've done was either exterminate them to prevent future conflicts or leave them to their own devices to see how maddening an establishment built on the extermination of a species would turn out to be. While I do think there were flaws in the order she created, it was better than the alternatives and I do think some things were out of her control when it came to certain things about how people viewed history.
She just took the path of least resistance dealing with the humans so that she could both have some calm and focus on her mother. Frankly, Fodlan might've been spared of future rampages if Rhea just used one family as her royal lineage ala Loptyr as they took care of the crests and kept them out of human hands.
Could the next Fire Emblem not have any designated villans? (SPOILERS For Recent Games)
in General Fire Emblem
Posted · Edited by Eryon
More or less every problem you talked about roots in how they didn't just make Edelgard the undisputed big enemy but instead coped-out by including TWSITD to serve as a way for her to at least take advantage of dastardly antics without being too repulsive an option for the player to join with unironically.