geradgerard

haha yeah idk what i was thinking chasing after you. XD i think you killed my sage too so it got pretty close.

ah yes, now i remember that game. if i recall, i had trapped his beserker and sage. and since it was P1's second turn, his lone unit that starts at the top of the map doesn't have enough move to reach me. he bumped into my paladin with his zerker and then used warp to go places. i usually only try that when i'm more concerned with having fun and trying to fake out P1. >.< most people don't expect blocking P1 instead but it's definitely risky on my part.

i was speaking in UU terms. just because Generals play better in OU than Warriors in OU, doesn't make Generals better than Warriors. UU is a different tier and who gets put in NU is matter of who fairs well in UU. what is this, "not because of anything else"? generals have 21 spd. they get doubled by bishops, falcoknights, and heroes to death. and any benefits they give, warriors give too. i'd say there's more to why they are NU than just movement and super-effective weakness.

just saying though that max stat fire dragons aren't that bad actually. they have 29 def, 24 res, same spd, and less atk. defensively they're aren't any real changing factors (in UU at least). just no reason to use one over a divine dragon other than looks. =p

the way i see it is that with the Map3 thing there is absolutely no way for P2 to stop it. but with the Map6 thing, there are ways to stop it. methods that give absolutely no way to deal are pretty broken to me and what i think should be accounted for. i also don't like this whole player order being such an issue. if it was just some random order then possible strategies and formations depend on how lucky you got on the order. being able to change the order should be looked at as fine without having to give information about it like Sylvan mentioned in his counter-pick rules.

thought of another clause/game mode No 27<spd/30def Class: pretty simple. i just would like to see Falconknights fighting Sages just because Sages can't 2HKO them. Warriors and Heroes are our new SM, HM, and Sn. divine dragons can stay but no paladins, dracos, zerkers, sm, sn, or hm.

Warriors are basically Generals with more str and spd at the cost of two def. 30 def is only good against SM, HM, and Sn. but seeing as those are OU, there's no practical reason to use Generals over warriors. so Generals should go NU, in the never used tier. all manaketes have the same caps. the divine stone and fire stone are what make them different. and since divine stone gives better str, def, and res; there's no reason to use a fire dragon over a divine dragon. thus fire dragons stay in NU and Divine dragons go in UU. Divine dragons work in UU fine. Because of they're dual 30 def/res and 24 spd, they're different from any other class. i would have organized the lower tiers like this Underused: Theif Bishop Warrior Falconknight Divine Dragons Neverused: Hero Ballistician General Lord Fire Dragons Xane Tier: Freelancer

to be honest i'm not interested in the top tiers. i want the UU and NU tiers to be done. remember, this whole topic was stemmed because i suggested matches only using UU or NU. >_> and why are Generals still UU? Warriors outclass them in practically every way. and Divine dragons should be UU. they outclass Fire dragons and would make sense to separate the two. the only one in BL should be Horsemen. that many in there make UU too nonviable. oh and like dondon said, ima basing this off of smogen's tiers with the intention of having matches based on tiers and not just suggesting who's the best class.

i think it would be better if we just looked at the individual class, and try not to mention the team issues too much. that sage point is good though. oh and btw. without dazzle, every class is never 100% guaranteed to live 1-vs-1. so HM aren't the only ones. any problems i have so far are: Paladins under uber... idk about uber. definitely a very good class, but they don't really bring anything offensively. the reason sniper, beserker, and horsemen (apo) are highly rated is because they're good offensively, but still have the ability to survive 1-vs-1 like a paladin can. Generals should go in NU. they're overshadowed by warriors too much. thus making them NU. personally i don't like the existence of this BL tier. and idk why we have this non-promoted tier. it should just be taken out at this point. oh and go ahead and make the team tier list. it will be hard trying to get all the possible, common teams. if your going to post it, just remember that people will be questioning things and giving their own opinions. something i don't like with people making tier lists is that they can be too biased in making it. hopefully you and ASL won't be.

i question this sage/sorcerer being so high. definitely very useful but they still have survivability problems. i wouldn't put in ubers but at least high OU.

i support sniper's being on top. ability to break choke-holes is really important in half the maps. and since we're looking at individual classes and not team set-ups. a single sniper is contributing more than any other single class. oh and i said paladins to OU because with dazzle they are prone to poleaxe, and with apotrophe (which is at ubers currenty) paladins are prone to crits. if anything, dazzle paladin should be better than apotrophe.

am i too late for this? ^_^

move swordmasters to OU just above Draco. Paladins to the top of OU. there's too many BL. these should be classes that can fair in OU fights well enough. make a UU tier. Warriors and Falcoknights. Thieves should be moved out of NU. Make Freelancer UU. Generals should go in NU. Lord is definitely NU. Divine Dragons in UU. Fire Dragons in NU. if anyone has any questions about my choices then say so, and i'll write my reasoning. i have an aim too, if anyone cares. it's cinnabonboy64. >_>

Ballisticians, fire dragons, xane, bishops, generals, and heroes. and there is a reason it called NU (never used) generals have there place as they're the only ones who can use brave bows now. Heroes need Sword vs Lance and Axe vs Lance in order to get 1RKOed btw. i feel though that Bishops might be overpowered though. those are the only two that doubles generals and have the second highest spd cap. Bishops might just go UU but then sages and sorcerors should go OU then... and yes Thief is Thv. maybe Thf would be better way to spell it? like most of the classes in NU are overshadowed by others. Bishops and sages. Generals and Warriors. Fire dragons and Divine Dragons. Heroes are here just because they die to thieves although they can function pretty well otherwise. and ballisticians have a low spd cap but can work more here because of generals and fire dragons. i would put Fkht here too but since they are the only flyer in UU i can't realistically call them Never-used. if i had to make a NU team. it'd be something like a 2 Heroes, a General, a Bishop, and a Ballistcian. i can also imagine a 1 Hero, 2 Ballistician, 2 Bishop. or a 4 General, 1 Bishop under umbra or fleet feet. Xane can be used better too. 2 Ballistician, 1 Xane, 1 Bishop, and 1 Hero under umbra or gravity. having three ballisticians is pretty deadly on some stages. all Heroes team can work. an all Bishop team though is kinda hax though. Fire dragons still have they're place since no one 1RKOs it and can work with ballisticians.

In the clause 16, the first sentences says 4 or more units. then next sentence mentions a Paladin and 2 horsemen which adds to three. then it says "three units of the following" and ah geez... make the rules myself? well same rules apply but theirs conditions. UU Match Banned Classes: SM, HM, Sn, Zrk, Pal, and Dra. NU Match Banned Classes: SM, HM, Sn, Zrk, Pal, and Dra. Additional Banned: Sag, Sor, Thv, War, DvDra, and FKht. Limited Forge Clause Forges cannot exceed +/- 4 degrees.

=[ i like Map6. i've always been more of a warp person so i never mind using a sage. i actually don't like map5 cause its really easy to abuse poke-scouting. and also to a lesser extent when you fight random people who have just their bishop!lena WHO KNOWS WHERE. its gets kinda annoying. but i would have to say that a fair map is not possible. maps are created to have a player utilize characters and terrain to their fullest. just like how map6 gives sages the advantage, map5 gives high mov the advantage. map3 too. map1 and 2 give P1 pretty good advantage. map4 gives snipers the advantage if i had to say anything about that. i would call utilizing the map to your advantage more of strategy than it being completely broken. the only thing i see really broken is first turn killing and trapping on map3. map3 isn't even that bad if you don't trap. btw, same reasoning as XxWolfxX, Map4 is my favorite. i have more fun with Map6 though, trapping the lone enemy with two warpers and stuff. =D and if i did have to create a map..... it be something like a mini fort on two ends and a sort of empty field with forts at the top. and a forest at the bottom. another one is a two square river divides the north and south with three bridges. a cool idea would be to make two castles and you have to control both of them in order to win. another map idea is maybe like a valley setting. with lots of mountains. a river in between them. and sort of cramped empty space along it. seriously if you guys prefer just fighting on empty 32x32 maps then that could be one too. or even just 10x10. ooh another one is like a island in the middle and four bridges leading to some perimeter looking area. and what if we had different set of spawn points!? O_o *blah, blah....*

oh cool. i wanted to see some clause like things to be made. well here's my opinion on some of them. Clause #5, 9. i don't like how winner gets to change. isn't it counter picking? if the winner changes then the loser can't really counter pick. also these clauses are pretty much the same thing. changing the card is basically changing the team. like if a 2HM + 1Sn + 2whatever team under umbra and under apotrophe can be played completely differently. Clause #11 we can refuse if asked, right? i like umbra sometimes. Clause #12 is iffy. there's many ways to get around this. like imagine all paladin team with everything but mag capped. it stays within bound but is definitely just as powerful/intimidating. Clause #13 is silly. forged swarms is not possible without hacking. just change it to no hacked items, stats, or characters. i feel though that hacked money is sorta fine. i can understand why someone wouldn't want to AA for all that. >_> Clause #16 i think its worded wrong... you said 4 or more then it says 3...i would put it at 4 or more myself though. that way i can still have 3 falcoknight sisters. which brings up another thing i want... another game set. UnderUsed class game. like with pokemon and OU/UU. i've always wanted to see some of the other classes being utilized. like i would exclude <28 spd units and 30 def units. That way falcoknights, heroes and warriors get a chance to be used. possibly exclude sages/sorcerors for bishops. Thieves would be usable still though. they can't kill max def warriors but still kill bishops and sages. Falcos need lance to survive. if anything we can even introduce a NU class. it would include Heroes, Bishops, Generals, Ballistician, and Marth. unfortunately Heroes and Marth gets exactly 1RKOed by thieves. also some other forge and weapons game. forged braves immensely changed the way wifi is played. when i first got this game i was against such ridiculous forged braves. like maybe sticking back to forging in RD or POR. only silver and throw weapons (levin included). thoron, killers, and longbow are another deal though..

against random people on play anyone, of course you'd be winning. its a good team but against more competitive teams they're gonna be exploiting your Barst and Navarre's def. Barst's def isn't as bad cause he's only dying to other beserkers but why's Navarre so low? at least 15 def with 60 hp would let's him survive other SM or snipers. i'd give it around a 5-6. your missing some stuff like Swarm and you have 3 1RKOable units. its not so bad to get below a 5 but it doesn't even fit the usual standards for def so no higher than 6.

why hack her in the first place?

Elice can be arguably the best sage statistically. her, Linde and Merric are all pretty great choices. Merric is just the easiest to make. and on H5. the arena is still possible. its definitely harder though. i used a loan unit to level up my guys but i could tell that even the enemies there get improved stats too.

i used it once with someone on gamefaqs. not sure who but i remember it was one of them... it wasn't that great. hearing them was kinda hard cause of connection i guess. and it's kind of awkward really so i had nothing really to say to the guy.

snipers rock. i have a 3 sniper team and they can trample most things.