ZanaLyrander

It's almost kinda weird how good the Soldier moveset is, and I'm a little ashamed to admit that I think I prefer it over the Great Lord moveset. Like, the Great Lord is supposed to be the infantry lance moveset, yet I find the Soldier moveset more satisfying to use. I also think the Soldier moveset unironically has one of the best class actions in the game, the rapid stabs which stunlock enemies while also charging up a devastating triple lance throw is awesome. And of course if you're playing as a dismounted Dark/Holy Knight, you can make use of that moveset and still have access to magic, which is sweet. It's why Dark Knight is probably my favorite non-unique class, it has two badass movesets and is one of the best magic using classes in the game. Honestly, that's just not fair to everyone else.

There's something I've noticed about the combat arts in this game that bugs me: the little icons seem to lie a fair bit. Like, Shattered Sky, the unique combat art tied to the Lance of Ruin, has the icon that says enemies can't guard. But either I don't actually know what that means, or that's a lie, because I've seen enemies guard and take no damage from that combat art numerous times while playing as Sylvain.

Now that I would fully support. Just like how the Soldier moveset is very nice to have as a dismounted moveset for master class lance users, having a mounted sword class that defaults back to the mercenary moveset when dismounted would be excellent. I found it annoying that there were no mounted sword classes in Three Houses, and it's even more annoying in Three Hopes where you are super for real locked into a single weapon type. I have to admit, as much as I enjoy the Dark/Holy Knight moveset, sometimes it's really fun to hop off your horse and wade in with the soldier moveset. I'm not a huge fan of the merc moveset, but the soldier moveset is actually a ton of fun and startlingly effective.

I do think Dark Holy Elf has a point though. Looking at the Merc moveset, it does kinda seem inferior to the Swordmaster moveset. If they wanted to create an advanced and master class with the same moveset, I feel like they'd need to spice it up a bit, add a bit more weight and impact to a lot of the hits and maybe increase the range and/or attack speed in order for it to be a viable alternative to the Mortal Savant. I agree that any moveset getting orphaned is a waste of development time and effort, but I do think that creating an advanced and master class with the same moveset might be insufficient on its own for the Merc moveset.

Hard agree on this one, Edelgard is definitely S tier, she's one of the strongest units in the game, certainly one of the most versatile. She can be a powerful axe user with Amyr, and immortal sword user with the Sword of Seiros, you could even make her a full on Gremory if you want. She's definitely the strongest of the house leaders, and that's high praise, Dimitri and Claude are damn good at what they do. Edelgard is just good at everything.

I'm not factoring in the character restriction on SotC, I'm just undecided on whether it and the Dark Creator Sword are as good as Thunderbrand. I suppose they could all be S tier. Screw it, I'm moving them up. And I have to admit, Eviscerate is frankly absurdly powerful.

I considered doing something like this, but it seemed a tad overcomplicated. Some weapons are way more useful for certain characters than they are in general, it's true, it's just more difficult to rate them taking specific characters into mind (with the exception of weapons that can't really be used well by anyone except specific characters like the Sword of the Creator or Amyr). It's still a very valid observation. I admit, I adore the Dark Creator Sword, that is my weapon of choice for Shez as well, and since I use Rejuvenation on Shez, it makes them virtually immortal with how fast they rack up hits. It probably could be S tier, as could the Sword of the Creator (it'd be weird to have them in separate tiers, they have the exact same effect, Sword of the Creator is just Byleth/Sothis specific and also has a unique combat art). I'm still undecided. I feel like Thunderbrand theoretically should be stronger, but I admit that has not been my experience. As for Failnaught, Fallen Star is powerful, but not as impressive as Eviscerate. Also, it should be noted that I was going for Best in Slot for each weapon type for each S tier weapon. Vajra-Mushti might not be quite as strong as the other S tier weapons, but it's definitely the best gauntlet weapon. Meanwhile, Failnaught is good if you have the crest of Reigan, but kinda underwhelming if you don't, and either way it still can't compete with The Inexhaustible. Edit: Oh, and I didn't bother with the other unique weapons like the Knight Captain's Sword most of them can't really compete to be honest. They're by no means bad, but they're not in the same league as the legendary weapons.

Fates gets a lot of shit, but mostly it's for the story, mechanically it's one of my favorite FE games honestly.

Okay, so originally I wanted to do a overall weapon tier list, but for the non-unique weapons that you get multiple of, that seems fairly obvious, so instead I want to compare and contrast the unique weapons, the Hero's Relics and Sacred Weapons. I'm very much open to feedback on this tier list. S Tier: S Tier is for BiS weapons, if you can use these, why wouldn't you? The Inexhaustible - Easily the best of the Sacred Weapons, there's really no contest. Being able to spam combat arts with an archer is crazy strong, the healing is just gravy. Suttungr's Mystery - Combined with the cooldown reduction from Gremory or Dark Bishop, this results in minuscule cooldowns for even the highest level spells, just nuke everything. Areadbhar - Crazy strong combat art with matching crest, and does damage through guard. Thunderbrand - Spamming combat arts is always morally correct, and having a unique combat art with a matching crest is nice. Freikugel/Crusher - Both have strong unique combat arts with matching crest, and chew through stun gauges, which one's better really just comes down to whether you've got higher Strength or Magic Vajra-Mushti - Crazy strong combat art with matching crest, deals more damage when you're hurt. Sword of the Creator/Dark Creator's Sword - How exactly the 'hit twice' passive works in terms of calculating damage is a little unclear, but these are damn strong regardless, and really powerful with effects that activate based on number of hits. A Tier: Amyr - Powerful unique combat art for Edelgard, and an ability that allows more frequent use of specials and awakening. Sword of Seiros - Purely defensive abilities, but grants so much healing that you're basically immortal, especially with matching crest. Blutgang - Very useful combat art with matching crest that heals the wielder and is effective against cavalry, and increase magic crit chance. Lance of Ruin - High might, high crit chance on combat arts, and a strong combat art with matching crest. Spear of Assal - Effective against cavalry, which are very common, and provides good healing, especially with matching crest. Axe of Ukonvasara - Effective against armor, which are otherwise hard to hurt with pure physical attacks, and provides good healing, especially with matching crest. Failnaught - Very powerful combat art with matching crest, but honestly without a matching crest you're better off with a strong Parthia. B Tier: At this point, a regalia weapon with good weapon attributes is probably comparable, possibly better depending on the attributes and your build Lúin - Good combat art with matching crest, but the periodic Bolganone with strong attacks isn't reliable enough. All Other Sacred Weapons - Aside from the four Sacred Weapons already listed above, the rest of the Sacred weapons are pretty much exactly the same. They're still quite powerful, and the healing is very nice, but there are frequently better choices. Ichor Scroll - As with Lúin, the periodic Nosferatu with strong attacks isn't reliable enough. If you have the matching crest and don't know Abraxas, it can be handy, but you can also learn Abraxas from the adjutant system, even if it is a pain. C Tier: You're better off using a regalia weapon. Hrotti - Can be useful for some weird builds with high strength characters, but that's it. Shez can easily teach Dark Spikes to anyone, so even the matching crest spell isn't all that impressive.

It is weird to me that Lance classes in three houses and three hopes are entirely mounted, makes me miss the Spear Master and Basara from Fates. Meanwhile, for some reason, there are no mounted sword classes either, which seems a shame, though unlike with a non-mounted lance class, that'd be a lot more work because it'd require a totally new moveset rather than just reusing the Soldier moveset.

So, from what I've gathered, Dual Onslaught basically works by adding you Strength and Magic stats together whenever a damage calculation would call for either of them, right? Because if so, Lorenz's innate ability, Proficient Witstrike, is kinda a joke, because he unlocks it at the same time as Dual Onslaught. What's the point of an ability that calculates damage with your magic stat rather than your strength stat, when you simultaneously unlock an ability that calculates damage with both at once?

Agreed. I think the point of unit tier list is to recommend certain units. You can't recommend a unit you don't have access to, and once you do have access to that unit, how many chapters you played without them doesn't really matter.

I've also apparently been sleeping on Rejuvenation. It apparently heals you for a full 10% of your maximum health every 800 hits, which for some classes (like Shez as Asura) essentially makes you immortal, that's so much healing it's kinda stupid when given to a class that racks up hits fast.

Okay, just thought I'd mention that I have now confirmed the 9999 gold caps on Golden Fists and Despoil are independent, you can reach 9999 gold with each in one mission, which can be further increased by breaking gold pots. I just completed a mission and received over 22,000 gold from the 'Earned in Combat' category, for a grand total of over 50,000 gold. Seems like the two together are gonna be fantastic for gold grinding. Shame that Balthus can't learn Despoil, so the only way to use this combo is with his Merc Whistle accessory.

That's partially why I sometimes enjoy swapping Shez to Dark Knight or a Tome class, it gives other sword wielders more opportunity to shine. Don't get me wrong, Asura is fantastic, but Shez can excel in a lot of different classes (though I admit I avoid any class that can't use magic, Shez's dark magic is just too powerful to abandon)

The fact that Byleth is unavailable for most of the game is a perfectly valid criticism. I guess the question you need to ask therefore is whether a tier list is merely a description of the usefulness of various units across the course of the game, or a tool for aiding in decision making for what units to use. If the former, that's fine, but not terribly useful, it's more of a pure observation than anything that helps make decisions in game. If the latter, then as I've pointed out, availability is irrelevant, because the unit either isn't available and thus doesn't need to be considered, or they are available, at which point only their usefulness in battle matters in terms of deciding whether to use them. In terms of usefulness in battle, Byleth is insanely powerful, with numerous strong damage abilities, a powerful unique class, and a personal skill that's practically cheating.

I mean, tbf, I think Rhea, Sothis, and Arval shouldn't have a tier at all due to that, which they currently don't. You can't use them, so there's no decision to be made, no need to rank them. I may be examining this tier list from a different perspective, thinking of it as a guide for which units to use. As a result, I feel like assuming you have access to the unit is kinda necessary to rank them. Because if you don't have access to them, obviously they're F tier, they're completely useless. If you do have access to them, how long that took doesn't really matter at this point.

I don't know the conventions, perhaps you're right. But In a game like this where progress carries over from run to run, and thus for a Maddening tier list you don't really need to worry about units that join late playing catchup, factoring in that context seems strange to me. It seems like a sunk cost sort of thing, when deciding whether to deploy Byleth, prior to them joining, there's nothing to even consider, no decision to make. And after they join, I fail to see how them joining late is relevant, you have them now, and have to decide whether to use them or not.

Hmm... see, availability similarly feels like an odd thing to factor into a tier list. You're absolutely correct, Byleth joins late on every route, and thus they aren't an option for most of the game. But a tier list exists to help make choices on which characters to use. The tier of a character you can't use doesn't matter, that'd be like making units that are route specific lower tier because you don't get to use them on the other two routes. And once you can use them, the fact that you couldn't for a long time also no longer matters in terms of deciding whether or not to use them now. So while I get what you mean, I think factoring that information into what tier they fall into is an odd choice.

I do think ignoring deployment restraints is probably a better way to handle a tier list. Making a character lower tier because there's a higher tier unit that fills a similar role seems like putting the cart before the horse. The tier list itself factoring into what tier a character belongs to gets a little confusing because it makes the tier list self-referential. The existence of a better unit for a given build does not inherently make a character worse. For example, Byleth is definitely an S rank unit imo. The fact that you have to use Shez for main missions and thus Byleth is likely to see slightly less use outside of side missions or record keeper battles if you keep them both as sword users (which is hardly necessary, they're both excellent in essentially any class) does not make Byleth any less insanely powerful.

Damage isn't everything. Sometimes a slightly more durable unit that doesn't do quite as much damage is a fine tradeoff. And it's not like he's completely without damage abilities, he gets Underdog, and on Maddening, that applies to basically everyone, most of the enemies after the first handful of chapters exceed the level cap, at which point Underdog is just a free damage boost. And while his base magic stat is low, Dual Onslaught is still quite powerful late game. Don't get me wrong, I don't think all units in this game are equal, that's virtually impossible without them all being essentially the same. And I concede that for most builds on most characters, there's probably at least one character who could do roughly the same build 'better' (albeit probably with some differences). But in my experience, even those that are 'objectively better' for a given build aren't better by much, you have to be really paying attention and number crunching to notice a significant difference. The worst unit in Three Hopes, whoever that may be, is still 100% viable, and could easily be the star of the show for a run without any significant difficulties if you take the time to find a good build for them. I guess I don't object to the idea of C tier, it just feels to me like it implies a larger difference in effectiveness than what actually exists in the game.

I think the trap you're falling in is one I myself fell prey to in my first few runs: thanks to the class system, two units who do the same thing is a simple matter to fix, just change the class of one of them. People put too much stock into preferred classes, preferred class doesn't amount to much other than more expediently gaining class exp, which, by the time you're doing maddening runs, shouldn't be an issue, you should have plenty of classes mastered. As far as I can tell, there really aren't any units in this game who are only good at one thing. To give an example, in one run, I was using Great Knight Crusher Annette, which was a super fun build. This led to Dedue feeling a bit redundant. This was how I discovered that Dedue is a startlingly good Bow Knight who gets Armsthrift, Essence of Fire boosted Flame Volley, Deadeye, and just like everyone else, he can equip The Inexhaustible. This resulted in a tremendously powerful, surprisingly durable archer. There really are no bad units in this game as far as I can tell. You just have to learn to ignore what the game seems to suggest you should be doing with each unit, and experiment. You'll find a build you love with just about any unit given just a little bit of time and curiosity.

I admit, I haven't used Yuri a lot, so I can't really compare Petra to him very well. I imagine the two are fairly similar, both being Essence of Wind Tricksters. But Petra, much like Lindhart, seems to me to be very stun gauge focused. Her unique support ability is basically just Burst of Resolve but better, so she fills up her Awakening gauge real fast, she can juggle enemies with wind magic, she has access to a bunch of abilities like Heavy Hitter and Patience that increase stun gauge damage, and her personal ability makes her very hard to hit and highly mobile in combat. This all comes together to make her very reliable.

I think people sleep on Lindhart (appropriate though that is given his love of naps). I know I did. I wouldn't say he's A tier material, and I was fairly disappointed in his performance as a Dark Bishop, and mainly just used him as a healer. But then I made him a Holy Knight for extra healing and discovered that between Excalibur, his basic combos, his personal skill, Gather, and his ability to rapidly build up Awakening with Burst of Resolve, he can just chew through stun gauges, and critical rush everyone. It certainly caught me off guard, I had been fairly unimpressed with him prior to that point, but if you haven't tried this build, I highly recommend it, I was very surprised by how powerful he was. Again, I wouldn't call him A or S tier material, but I object to his placement in C Tier (of course, I kinda object to the existence of C tier. None of the units you placed there are actually weak, hell, Petra's practically unstoppable, she's one of the better Tricksters in the game imo).

It was kinda a necessary workaround for the game's mechanics to work. Weapon strength is one of the most important factors in this game for determining your overall strength, and in Three Houses, units like the Gremory generally don't use or need weapons at all.