Defeatist Elitist

But, uh, how do you know that someone is, say, Asian then, if not by their appearance?

I know it's a generalization. I'm aware of how they work. I was simply pointing out that this was an unreasonable generalization.

Lawl. Sorry, I assumed you thought that to. How do you determine someones race? Run a detailed background check? :P

How can you avoid them without knowing they are African American? Unless you can tell without seeing them. I'm saying that race = appearance. That is generally how people judge race.

I am reading. You are really not understanding here. I KNOW THAT THEY HARASSED YOU BEFORE! What I'm saying is that means you're judging them on their appearance. You're saying "That guy looks like those guys who were dicks before, I better be careful about him." Anyone else see the flaw in her logic her? I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Disliking Orcs isn't racist, they're a different species. :P But I agree that disliking a culture isn't racist. If I dislike people who want to eat my heart, I'm not racist. If I assume that every person who looks a certain way wants to eat my heart, and then dislike them because of that, then I am. Extreme, but hey.

Except that is not what you're saying. You said that you trust black people less because of them bugging you in the past. That is judging them on their looks. Because people who look like them have acted a certain way, you assume that they will act in a similar matter. That is not a reasonable deduction.

And what I'm saying is, that your reason is basically: A fair number of people who look like this have been rude to me. Thus I will not trust people who look like this. I'm just saying that people's appearance rarely belies their actions, unless they're like carrying a gun or have tons of scars or something. :P

I'm bringing up the phrase "valid excuse" because I have to in order to say there isn't one. It's like if in the Matrix the kid says "There is no spoon", and Neo goes "Well then why are you mentioning it?" I've explained (as have other people) why avoiding or not trusting people because of their appearance is pretty unreasonable.

Again, her "problem" is pretty damn minor. In that specific case I'd simply say that peoples appearance shouldn't be what you use to predict their actions, at least if it's not something they can choose. @Paradox: FUCK POLITICAL CORRECTNESS YOU CRACKER! Now, excuse me, I'm off to get some fried chicken in this car I stole. Oh wait, wrong stereotype, I'm white. Off to buy something expensive with my parents money with this expensive car I bought with my parents money.

Yes, it is not a valid excuse, precisely BECAUSE there is no valid excuse. And vice versa. See what I'm saying? What I mean is that your racism is unreasonable because it has no sound underlying trappings (no racism does). Maybe it would be easier if I said that in general racism was unreasonable?

This wasn't about her sexual preferences actually. That's why I argued it. She stated that she avoided black people intentionally because they got in her space and were loud and obnoxious.

You misunderstand. I'm saying (not in my opinion, I'm stating this as a tentative or disputable fact) that your opinion of black people is not a valid excuse for acting any differently towards them. If you do not act any differently towards them, then I apologize, I thought you had sort of implied it by saying you don't trust them as much and try to avoid them.

First thing you said I'm just going to leave. I really don't mean it AT ALL like that. I said that is the mindset, not that she will be doing that. In fact, her position is pretty minor, and really actually superficial, the only real reason I'm arguing this at all is to argue, to try to point out stuff, and to try to change her mind I guess. As to your second point, that's kind of my point, isn't it? You shouldn't judge a race, ANY RACE by just that. I mean, I'd be having the same argument if it was white people or Mexicans she was talking about. @Quanta: You're really mostly right in a lot of what you say here. Again, I'm only really arguing here for the sake of arguing and do draw out this point. I know that most people have stereotypes and biases, but I hope that like all flaws I have, that people will point them out and try to defeat them.

Just forget the thing I said you should stop doing, it will get nowhere. You don't seem to understand this. What I'm saying is (well, what I think is the best option out of those) is that you have a poor opinion on Black People in general. It is "a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty". That kind of explains it. Your opinion therefore (if you accept it as an opinion) is unreasonable for you to apply to actual situations. Need me to explain a little more?

Maybe I can explain what I want you to stop doing... Basically, what you just did. Because I already said. THOSE ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS. That opinion is really an opinion. Seriously, reread my thing where I listed the 4 possibilities for what this is. It should explain this.

What, racism? I did already: "Racism, by its simplest definition, is discrimination based on the racial groups to which people belong." I know what real racism is. Trust me. I'm not saying that she is like some anti christ who will destroy all society. I'm just saying that the basic idea and mindset, as well as a refusal to back down from that position, and justification of it are all problems.

I said stop... Well, it's hard to explain, I'll get back to you on that. On to the opinions are not right or wrong. Did you read my last 2 posts? That kind of explains it. And don't get me onto the Religious thing, I'll just say now, there is something that is right. Proveably, and of course absolutely. Lincoln's Death is something totally different entirely of course. Because "deserving" is a fickle and subjective thing. Whereas "Black people are less trustworthy than white people" is not really in the same ball park.

I should add a C) to that statement "C) It is an opinion, but an opinion is an invalid and unreasonable basis for such a claim or idea, and thus is not valid in this situation" Or a D) "D) It is an opinion and opinions are inherently wrong." :P @ Phoenix: The trust thing doesn't matter, you're doing your characteristic "misinterpreting" thing. :P The problem is the fact that she treats Black People differently from other people simply because they are black.

Just. Stop it. Please. I really am trying to cut back on the amount that I am an ass. I have read all your posts. I see that you have said there is no right or wrong for an opinion. However, I clearly think that your reasoning is wrong, and put forward this statement for you "Either A)Your opinion is wrong, and opinions CAN be wrong, unlike what you stated earlier, or B)What you said is not really an opinion, and thus you're simply trying to validate it and say it is untouchable by saying it is an opinion". Either way, you're going to end up wrong. I made an example earlier of an "opinion" as you gave yours, which was drawn to a ridiculously exaggerated level, but I believe communicated the point.

Because it's wrong. It's a bad reason. What I was actually saying there is that I wouldn't be arguing with you here if you had said that you realized you were wrong, or were trying to change, which is what some people were implying, with things like "but wouldn't it be a natural reaction", and stuff like that. I'm hoping that I can move you to that stage, but hey.

Nothing of the sort. Drug use is either an addiction, or people doing it because it's fun. I understand it might be hard for her to stop, but as I said, my problem is that she made no effort to, and in fact, DEFENDED her racism. That's what I mean. THERE IS NO VALID REASON. That's what I've said this entire time. There is no reason where racism is reasonable. If there was, it wouldn't really be racism. As to the argument that you are not extreme. I know. That is why, you will note, I quite clearly stated that I did not so much object with your particular beliefs, but the idea in GENERAL, because it is used by SOME people to justify such actions.

But that's the thing, there is no valid reason to be racist. I think this is going to be a long explanation, perhaps going to the root of racism. It's not as obvious as it may seem. First of all, no matter how harmless Yuli's stuff may seem, or how you might think her beliefs are justifiable, this is the same general manner that, say, KKK members go about "justifying" their beliefs. It's not too far of a stretch. In addition, as soon as you have a stereotype, any stereotype in your head, people will begin living up to that stereotype. You having that stereotype will mean that you will unconsciously see people in that stereotype. It's not necessarily her in particular, but the whole thought process. I mean, take Essau's pants example. Or even better, this one, which is true: I grew up in a sour cream white community. Pretty much the only black guy I knew, and definitely the only one I had much contact with it WAS A COMPLETE AND TOTAL FUCKING ASSHOLE. But I realized that it was the individual. It's not at all representative of other people who look similar. I guess my problem isn't that she has these tendencies, it's that she's DEFENDING them as reasonable. I mean, yes, many people will have bias and think about others stereotypically, but when it's pointed out, you shouldn't just say "Yeah, I know I'm racist, but guess what, I've justified it to myself and don't feel like trying to change."

Oh come on, I'm really trying to be civil, but please don't stretch it. I have read everything you've said in this thread. Multiple times. However, when it was pointed out that your racism was completely ignorant, you seemed to take issue with it. Racism however, is ignorance. What we're trying to say is that your racism is based on, well, nothing, other than the fact that Black people have harassed you in the past, which is not a valid reason.

I'm not necessarily reacting to that, but her general tone, and posts made in this topic. She's said she doesn't trust Black People as much as other people. Maybe this doesn't get to you guys, but that is racism. It doesn't matter if you have a billion reasons. I'll go back and try to find some of those posts though.