Green Poet

Okay, I've waited almost 12 hours since I called them out, and the announcer's silence has told me what I needed to know. They are scum, because: 1. I've also reached out to several players during these 12 hours. No one has claimed announcer in-thread or to me, even though it's not a powerful role, would help everyone distinguish my alignment, and is easily verifiable by lack of CC (and if someone CCs, that gives us a guaranteed scum lynch either today or tomorrow via the 1v1). Publicly claiming announcer was the protown move. That they didn't means that they don't want to be known, or to be held accountable by anyone but Elie, or it's simply Elie himself. Either way, the announcer isn't claiming because they have something to hide, and a town announcer has no reason to hide right now. 2. Why is the announcer not TL right now if Refa trusted them? The announcer alleges that Refa trusted them with his next lynch, and yet Refa didn't make this person backup TL to actually enforce that lynch? Nor did Refa actually give them the proof? The announcer is trying to use Refa's name to anonymously control a lynch. The announcer's proof and identity aren't verifiable, and kirsche's word that comprises Elie's case isn't verifiable. Also, here's proof that the announcer isn't me, and also proof that Elie claims they claimed to him: In other words, the one person who holds the evidence for Elie's case on me is dead and unreachable (kirsche), and the person backing up the case won't tell anyone but Elie who they are, so they are also unreachable (the announcer). Elie actually went at length to explain to me how there are no roles obfuscating kirsche's results that his case is based on, as you can see below (bolded parts by me for emphasis) - it's entirely kirsche's word and it seems no one alive can confirm kirsche actually said it. To me, I know that I did not visit Prims at any point during this game. My only successful target has been Mich, on both N1 and N2. But for everyone else considering how likely it is that Elie's telling the truth about kirsche, consider that... We have a flipped vig, we know there is an ITP due to numbers (if you didn't know before, you do now), and there's the mafia factional kill. The kills last night were most likely caused by 1/1/1 from each faction, as Elie himself recognized: There's no way town has Refa's night kill and Elie's day kill, or that ITP lacks a kill while town has a night kill AND a day AND night kill. The likeliest explanation is what Elie admitted above - that town has a night kill, mafia has a night kill, and ITP has a limited night kill and a day kill. Elie is most likely that ITP, and as I said before, he's either the announcer or is working with the scum announcer. ##Vote: Elie Elie making a bid for TL makes sense if he's ITP - his "legitimacy" comes from shooting scum, so town wouldn't think to immediately lynch him for leading a mislynch like we would if a cop TL had claimed a false scan. That means he can mislynch as many times as he wants until people question if he was okay was shooting mafia because he's ITP, and even then he could just feign ignorance - "town makes mistakes, right?" As we saw earlier today, Mich (or someone who has to speak through Mich) is the cop, but the whole game has been townreading Mich to the point that he's clearly unlynchable. I bet the only way to kill Mich is to end my martyrs on him, which scum hasn't been able to do all game, so they're forced to use this method now. One last reason we should lynch Elie is that he's been trying to keep his role secret, and contradicting himself in his public claims, since the start of the game. Remember when he tried to become TL on D1? Back then he said his role was "expendable," yet he then proved he had a day kill. And now, as Bartozio told us, he's not willing to fullclaim to anyone.

For those that didn't already know - I'm a martyr and targeted Mich N1 and N2 (under Prims' orders) and kirsche N3 (under Refa's orders), only the last of which was unsuccessful. Normally I might be fine with this lynch because it would point to Elie's source being scum, but I got the OK from Elie to say that it was kirsche's watch on Prims that gave him that info (directly heard from kirsche himself, so it was not a secondhand report). In other words, my lynch can't lead to a guaranteed scum lynch tomorrow, because it's not my word vs. anyone else's who's alive. So the only other lead we have to go on is the announcer, who alleged at phase start that I'm scum. This person should step forward because, well, I'm not scum and they're lying or mistaken, and they've only claimed to Elie as far as I've been told. If they get their way and I die today, Elie is also likely to die tonight given that we have lost kirsche, would have lost my martyr, and basically have no other protective roles to ensure that Elie or anyone else who actually has the announcer's claim will remain alive. Please don't lynch anyone until, at the very least, we are able to examine the announcer and their claim today. Either that, or Elie is some sort of ITP. This would explain how both he and Refa could have vig shots in this setup, and how he's willing to kill both scum and town this phase. That's not as concrete to me as this announcer, though.

##Vote: Marth

Will be out for a few hours, I’ll get caught up the wagons once I’m back. atm not interested in lynching Snike, I’ve been townreading him/his slot for most of the game. Read on Elie hasn’t changed.

I didn't include the JB/Mich logs because they didn't have to do with my case, and they don't make JB look better or worse. I made sure Greencapps saw them first because it proved that Mich and JB did actually talk, and that was something JB had alleged that we wanted to make sure of first. My case wasn't at all hinging on them not having talked, but if they hadn't, that would have more or less confirmed scum!JB on the spot. Not sure why Greencapps thinks this "is kinda important" when our suspicions of JB aren't dependent on whether he actually talked to Mich, but instead on him (1) pressuring likely newb town who's proven to be easily lynched as town, (2) making a case publicly but not explaining the following unvote publicly, and (3) giving questionable justification for the unvote that makes more sense from scum judging others' reactions to it. This is all stated in our logs I initially posted. If it really was a deal breaker to Green, then that's on me for misunderstanding, but it doesn't affect my own read on JB. If I wanted to hide this, I wouldn't have shown the JB/Mich logs to Green to begin with :|

Logs between Greencaps and myself. ##Vote: JB I think I've talked to a majority of the playerlist about this case, but feel free to message me for clarification. As can be seen above, I think LG's case is solid, and would be willing to sheep it and consolidate on Elie if it comes to that. I would still primarily prefer to lynch JB.

test post to make sure I know how to condense text with spoilers correctly with the new forum system

##Vote: Junko Feel free to add/PM me over Discord. Not super familiar with OC but I'll do my best :blobthumbsup:

so i hear this low priority in thing is all the rage /low priority in

Mm that's true, yeah. Also Refa, that comment about it being generally better to claim ascetic immediately upon game start, was that legit advice (like you'd say the same as town)? I wasn't sure how to handle claiming it and esp. after the fact once I realized that scum could then hijack to me for an additional hook

That persuade was pretty smart. Surprised that the townslip wasn't faked though, that must've been frustrating to argue against lol. "They're all voting me but for the wrong reasons whyyyyy"

Hmm. I'm pretty sure that was how the factional kill worked in my last scum game, ITTD mafia, but that was quite a few years ago. It seems that's not the case now :| For me to be scum... there'd have to be a scum shrouder, godfather, and ascetic + masshooker in the same setup as a color cop. The chance that a guilty could correctly be determined in such a setup is unrealistically low imo, but that's something for everyone else to consider. There's little I can do about being a NAI passive role, and I think I claimed it at the most helpful time I could, when someone with an active role was talking about targeting me. I doubt there's much else I can say to sway everyone's opinion, and today's lynch looks pretty set, so I'm going to talk about tomorrow's lynch instead. I feel pretty certain that the last mafia is between Refa and Pika - I can't see Mack or Proto together facilitating the Junko lynch when we're almost certain to be considering one remaining scum (pretty sure it would be MYLO today otherwise). Proto also cleared Mack in doing this, because it meant that Mack got Junko lynched via the latter not knowing about Mack's actions rather than Mack intentionally catching him. Scum!Mack can't have bussed Junko via "disorganization" because such a tactic still relied on town!Proto being the one to push the case - if it were intentional on scum!Mack's end, he would have had to do the explaining because on the surface it only lends town!Proto towncred otherwise. I don't think Pika should be cleared based on his end of D1 behavior, either - at the time, scum couldn't have known about the color cop or any other difficulties related to town investigative power, so keeping a godfather alive who was likely to get scanned N1 is potentially more powerful than anything else. This is even likelier if Proto's theory about the massblock being factional is true, as it makes Pika's individual role less comparatively valuable to preserve. Also, revisiting the use of the persuade - looking back on it now and seeing that both the user and target were scum, the motivation behind it was probably mainly to discourage town from considering scum!Junko, or rather from considering that the people affected by the persuader are scum. By being the one deprived of his vote, Junko's the victim of what looks like an antitown play - in a vacuum, Junko loses his vote, no one explains why, town's hurt by that, and the conventional conclusion is that Junko is town. Simultaneously, someone at a L-2 wagon gets another vote wordlessly stapled to them, Refa, the second person affected by the persuader, and then who's hurt by that? The persuade action actually accomplished nothing in terms of affecting the lynch, but what it did leave behind on the game was the impression that the persuader had victimized two players, seemingly without giving them the chance to speak back or identify whoever had taken away their agency. Then when claims come out later and no one claims persuader, the conventional thought is that the targets of the action aren't scum. Could be a stretch, but I think it's something to consider. Assuming Marth doesn't count as a living townie in terms of reaching parity, 6 "alive" today means that tomorrow is MYLO, so make it count and good luck.

Never mind, just reread. Pika's courier succeeded to BBM N1, failed to me N2, failed to Proto N3. I was wondering if there were any attestable gaps where Pika idled his courier. It's fair to assume that there's only one antitown player left, and that a player can't visit two players in the same night to send a message + perform a factional kill, right? If both of those are true, I think we shouldn't lynch Pika today, and that Pika should visit Marth every night until he "proves" he can't have taken the kill. Even if notPika!scum idles the kill to encourage a mislynch on Pika, that doesn't change the pace of reaching parity and we all just get more chances to figure things out with night actions. ##Unvote

Who did Pika visit N1/N2 again?

Refa, what do you think about the D3 implications of scum!Proto? Why do you think he decided to point us to Junko? Reading D3 again I'm not convinced Junko would've gotten lynched otherwise. I don't see scum!Proto thinking he needs the towncred from bussing in a steady situation with 2 members left, especially after he dayvigged someone.

Actually, wait, I don't think Refa can be scum either. His N1 hijack was confirmed by Mack. He cannot be the scum roleblock because BBM was hooked N1, unless you could like... actually hook and hijack two people in one night? I've never heard of a role like that. ##Vote: Pika

I don't think Mack or Proto can be the last scum. The game state on D3 only moved forward when the contradiction between Mack's revised claim and Junko's claim was pushed by Proto. Junko shouldn't have been unaware of scum!Mack's role, and scum!Proto had no reason to direct us to him. Also, scum!Proto having hook/masshook/dayvig altogether is too much. Basically, if Proto just didn't say anything we probably would've no lynched or mislynched yesterday. town!Mack means he wasn't lying about confirming Refa's N1 hijack, but that isn't a clear. With Marth cleared by role, I think the only people who feasibly could be scum are myself, Refa, and Pika. I don't feel like putting time towards explaining why I'm not scum unless people are really pushing for it. Reading the end of D1 again, scum!Pika saying "I don't mind if I get lynched instead of Mich" makes more sense to me now because all the attention Mich had on him was highly likely to attract scans, and if he ever got "cleared" it'd be extremely easy to coast the rest of the game. I was scumreading Refa pretty hard D2 but I've come to realize that yeah, my case was largely dependent on the townslip being faked and that was something I'd taken for granted from the start. I'm surprised he's voting for Proto though, after D3 I feel like Proto is obvtown? Just based on activity/behavior I'd think one would tend to vote me over Proto and I don't see the motivation for scum!Refa to not do that. Also, not sure how much it'll help to clarify this, but I didn't talk N3 because I was just really busy. I'm an odd-night insomniac, not a 1-shot.

I don't think Mack or Proto can be the last scum. The game state on D3 only moved forward when the contradiction between Mack's revised claim and Junko's claim was pushed by Proto. Junko shouldn't have been unaware of scum!Mack's role, and scum!Proto had no reason to direct us to him. Also, scum!Proto having hook/masshook/dayvig altogether is too much. Basically, if Proto just didn't say anything we probably would've no lynched or mislynched yesterday. town!Mack means he wasn't lying about confirming Refa's N1 hijack, but that isn't a clear. With Marth cleared by role, I think the only people who feasibly could be scum are myself, Refa, and Pika. I don't feel like putting time towards explaining why I'm not scum unless people are really pushing for it. Reading the end of D1 again, scum!Pika saying "I don't mind if I get lynched instead of Mich" makes more sense to me now because all the attention Mich had on him was highly likely to attract scans, and if he ever got "cleared" it'd be extremely easy to coast the rest of the game. I was scumreading Refa pretty hard D2 but I've come to realize that yeah, my case was largely dependent on the townslip being faked and that was something I'd taken for granted from the start. I'm surprised he's voting for Proto though, after D3 I feel like Proto is obvtown? Just based on activity/behavior I'd think one would tend to vote me over Proto and I don't see the motivation for scum!Refa to not do that. Also, not sure how much it'll help to clarify this, but I didn't talk N3 because I was just really busy. I'm an odd-night insomniac, not a 1-shot.

##Vote: Junko

Yeah, that explanation helps a lot :o

Mich's role pm said that investigation results would say "you're Askr" and not something like "you're green" so... hmm. Could've been deliberately phrased that way, so that it's not modconfirmed that a unique type of cop exists when Mich flips? Still, overall it doesn't seem like there's anything corroborating the color cop claim. Did anyone else get hooked?

##Vote: Bartozio

I've never heard of a color cop before. I want to hear more about what it does because I'm pretty sure we already have access to information that can help verify or disprove it. Proto talked about this earlier: So if FK survives until next day phase, he should have an answer for us even if he gets hooked. That's still something he may want to confirm with the hosts though.

I thought it didn't need to be stated after, well, I used it lol. Also, I can only night talk on odd night phases. re: FK, I last said I might reevaluate my scumread on him based on what sort of scumreads he presents, but his three posts since then still only discuss townreads. When Refa asked him "who he was bothered by," he didn't have a name. Seems to just be going with the flow and not actively looking for scum, so my read hasn't changed.