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    Every war ever was started by a government. What are governments for.
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    *Rages around*
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    You talk to them about meaningful subjects that lead to asking them hard questions until you find something disagreeable about their ideaology. That was what you were telling me to do. This makes you either a hypocrite, or you were indeed interrogating your friends by definition. It has to go? Do you have any evidence that modern religion is so detrimental it is beneficial for you to demonise it ALL? The problems you have listed no longer occur and it's now just "not good enough". Yeah bad history. History that is now history. i.e. No longer applicable. This is like saying the descendants of Nazis are all terrible people on the virtue of it's history. That every european country in the world is horrible because they all had a history of starting wars (except Switzerland). All of which, I'm sure are rational things to say. So you admitted to selective and biased sampling of evidence. Yeah, "not good enough". Like everything else in the world it's not ideal. But you can't demonise religion in it's entirety which is what I'm arguing. Manipulative people trying to get rich will do it one way or another. Cut down all the big religious organisations and all you have is small harmful cults. People who want something to lean against will always find something to lean against. This something is usually not as good as an entire community although inefficient in money, is dedicated to the caring for the needy. Religion is not inherently bad, that is the only thing I am going to disagree with you on. I agree it's "not good enough" but nothing ever is, is it. Which are all, of course not problems we already fixed in the west. Which are all of course still relevant today in the modern west. "...the descendants of Nazis are all terrible people on the virtue of it's history. That every european country in the world is horrible because they all had a history of starting wars (except Switzerland)." "The American government is war mongering and wasteful. I suppose that invalidates the usefulness of a government."
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    So, interrogate your friends? Good job... But no, they're religious moderates. I do not think you can claim that I didn't probe hard enough. You don't know what questions I've asked. Eclipse here seemed just happy that I'm not brushing religion aside, she's not trying to convert me. Also, those are sweeping generalizations. Besides even if they do have nasty opinions on whatever, who cares, it's an opinion everyone has them, some find them nasty some don't, you have no right to dictate what is right or wrongthink. As long as they don't do anything based on it, it's fine. They are free to think what they think. I'm sure some do. But again, I do not care if it is a lie or not. All that I care about is what they're DOING in the western world. I'm not a hardline anti-theist, it's an unpopular thing to be, and for basically no practical benefit whatsoever. Again, good job demonising people who DO help out in the world with your sweeping generalisations. Because this is, of course applicable to the modern west. I don't think being an idealogical zealot of any kind, is good, and I have never claimed as such. This includes hardline atheists desperate to demonise the intentions of moderate theists. This was a poor argument and you know it. Because the catholic church is the only religious charity there is and if the catholic church is corrupt then nothing good can ever be done in the name of religion, I'm sure. Completely disregarding charity and volunteer organisations like Tzu Chi and the salvation army. Disregard the intentions of every religious person joining these charities and volunteering to do good for the world. Disregard the intentions of the people running these programs to encourage people to volunteer. That's what education is for. I'm going to have see more evidence for this. By citing the catholic church, which does not even advertise itself to be a charity organisation, but a religions institution. The American government is war mongering and wasteful. I suppose that invalidates the usefulness of a government.
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    I say it under the pretense that the person in question is not indoctrinated into some cult. Every single church (and I've been to a lot), every single buddhist charity organisation, every taoist temple I've gone for advice- Has been nothing but good. All the religious friends I have all have a stance like Clipsey's. Sure I do think they can teach detrimental moral values, but I think most of them do not, and a lot of people are able to filter out the nonsense. 2. I don't think it matters. If you need say, a doughnut every time you help someone, then go ahead, eat them all. I can't care less, the results are what matters. I don't think it's necessary, but I think people can do what they want. 3. Again, as long as the religion aims to do good for the world and the results show it- See every religious charity organisation every. I really don't care, the results in the modern west say it's a good thing and that's all I think matters in this discussion. Sure. But you have to give credit where it is due, and while religion does teach detrimental moral values (sometimes, arguably, to people with no judgement of their own) then you also have to concede it does still help because of the existance and proactivity of the very charities you reference. Religion isn't inherently bad. It's what people do with it. It'll also never go away no matter what people do about it.
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    I'd rather not. There are many amazing things that can be accomplished if this life is the only one you have. Maybe people will try harder to make this the best world out there, if this is the only one there is. Well, that's why I think what I think, anyway. (Also I edited on something onto my previous post, it is about that last bit in your spoiler part.)
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    I'm an agnostic. I don't know if God exists or not. I have no way of proving it and I will not make a judgement on it, beyond saying it is thus far, something you cannot make a scientific claim about. I really wish he does, you know. I don't want to die and have nothing after it, it sounds boring. But for now, I'll go under the belief that an afterlife does not exist, and just enjoy my life in this world, the best I can. I only think scientifically, because it is pragmatic to do so. EDIT: Just read this I agree. Christianity, and other religions (I also like Buddhism and Taoism a lot for this), teach many moral values that I think would definitely beneficial for them. That's why I think you can be both a scientist and a religious person. It's because it's so practical to do so. If someone can be a good person and think that the religion is beneficial for them to continue doing good? All the power to them! The world isn't so pedantic that you can't do what you want.
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    Not if you're a behaviorist. Which is why they are incompatible by the traditional definition of compatibility. Which is changing it because "conflict" and "contradict" are NOT interchangeable. Yeah but those that ARE true from those disciplines are sometimes not the scientific truth because they are not testable by the scientific method. Look, if you say something enough times, it *becomes* the mundane truth, but not a provable definite scientific one. Because you're doublethinking to the extreme. From what you just said in that same post- It it doesn't *contradict* therefore they are not incompatible. I don't know what you might be referring to that does NOT contradict between science and theology beyond mere existence as different methods of perception- Everything they perceive DO contradict because scientific truth is different from common truth, that is common sense. This was in no way, a strawman. Neither of which you can use on the other. Therefore incompatible. Which science cannot accept due to the sheer lack of evidence. Which is why they're incompatible by every definition but yours. You cannot have a scientific mindset while still believe in theology without preforming mental gymnastics. Moreover, none of these points shows that my analogy was a strawman.
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    Except religion requires faith in a hypothesis. The hypothesis that everything is created by god, directed by god in his all encompassing plan. That is ignoring evidence and sweeping it under the rug. There is no evidence that suggests a god exists, therefore there is no reason to believe as such. Therefore a theological explaination cannot be compatible with a scientific mindset. Yes, just like an uneducated bum on the side of the street can also speak the truth. It is a matter of probability, and why the scientific method is a thing. How likely it is to be right. Just as Makaze said: "The probability of two [directly] opposing types of research--one using direct testing while ignoring outlying data (faith in the hypothesis) and the other using indirect testing while accounting for all data (doubting the hypothesis)--coming to the same conclusion is practically nil." Except how scientific sociology is, is debatable. The only way in which theology and science are not incompatible is if you chance the definition of compatibility itself. Which is exactly what you went on to do. Sure a PP3 battery isn't going to fit in my clock. Sure if I tried to mash it in, it's not going to work. But their existance is not contradictory, therefore they're not incompatible, right? Yeah I do think this is a pretty poor definition and is pretty much wrong. When people say, this car battery is not compatible with this TV remote, they don't mean that the existence of these objects contradict. They mean the battery doesn't fit in the battery sockets on the remote.
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    Yes. You can punch trees and blocks of wood comes out. You should try it.
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    It's Australia. Australia has no cities. Just dangerous animals. We dig holes and sleep underground to avoid them.
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    Good idea. I'm sure that would certainly help me pass my exams tomorrow. xD
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    zm y?
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    3AM! Doing Physics! Fuck me.
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    Science is awesome. I love the basis of the philosophy behind it. If humans are so dark, so evil. Then when they do, do good, is it not a miracle to be celebrated? :P There were many leaders humanity could be proud of. Such as Britain's crusade against slavery. Rommel's humanitarianism despite Naziism. It's stories like that, that I really pay attention to, and underline. I don't actually know what German and Russian accents sound like. Adds to my curiousity and how exotic it is to me. xD arrogant fangame FDF is better
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    Plus it were run by Germanic people. Idk why they called themselves that.
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    Yeah I'm like one of those scientist through and through types anyway so. I like history because it's interesting reading people's ideas and reactions to things that happen. And how the world as it is today came to be. Also because they're just cool stories to listen to. It's so crazy it's like reading fantasy. Ooh, so like a German and Russian accent...That's so cool. oh my.
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    Yes, I do think it's a nice job. Teaching students while investigating the mysteries of the universe sounds really cool. A lot of researchers also get to travel all over the world for conferences. It sounds amazing. Yeah I think I've looked into things back until the formation of the Holy Roman Empire. Which was not holy, and not roman There are two different Australian accents, one is commonly seen in cities and on the news. The other is mostly outback people. xD Maybe if we're in a call or something someday. Do you have a German accent? :o Haruko is yaoi fangirl confirmed
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    *whisper whisper*
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    Oh so you might become a nutritionist? That's quite a respectable job. I'd probably end up as researcher or a university professor like my parents. Well isn't the internet the best place to do so. German history is very very interesting though, I've been reading up on it recently. Which accent? Bogan or non bogan. xD I don't have a very distinct accent, apparently. I've been told I have a, quote "Australian Taiwanese Japanese British" accent. I don't know. They seem to be very outgoing irl. You don't know how many times I got weird looks when referencing my online interactions with them. xD It's like talking to people from the middle ages :^) Yeah they've been through some...Special experiences.
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    IA best.
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    whao ZMoe.
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    (No who are u) I thought he gave it to make her fall asleep or something because I forgot it was a remedy.
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    Okay that makes more sense. That's actually a pretty sensible thing to teach, actually... Hehh, how are they boring? (I think I've only spoken to one other German person.) English is a fun language. I did IB English so I was made to like it, whether I wanted to or not. xD Australia is filled with things that will kill you. It's very peaceful. People are surprisingly non-techno-savvy though. I've met like only 3 other Australians on the internet. People here seem more interested in socializing irl and sports. We're sadly one of the continents that doesn't have a touhou con... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA KILL IT Go home Shadow-chan
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    Digestion is a subject? o.O Ooh, so she's your half-sister. Russian and German huh... It feels so exotic and exciting to me to meet someone from there, because i'm from Australia. (Most denizens of the net I've met/are following, are American or British.) It's a 9 year old. Emerald. (I didn't think of that though. I had some vague recollection of hearing something like that. BUT STILL.)
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