How would FE8 style split promotions change the FE6 meta?

[Cdijk16]

I've been wondering how FE8's split promotions would change the meta. Below are my thoughts on them for the first few characters you recruit.  Note that I'm assuming that all classes use the FE8 versions of their stats for the purpose of this analysis. I'm also assuming Hard mode. I will go character by character, but I will group together some characters who are very similar to each other such as Alan and Lance.

1. Roy: Assuming he keeps his original FE6 promotion, he shouldn't be affected much by this. Many other units would get better thanks to being capable of gaining a mount, making him worse relative to the rest of the cast.

2. Alan and Lance: Paladins are way better than Great Knights, these two have no real reason to pick the Great Knight path. Slightly better stats is not worth losing out on 2 whole movement for, especially on FE6's large maps. The Paladin versions of these would lose access to axes, but they dont use them much anyways. 

3. Wolt/Dorothy: These two units would be improved a lot by this. Ranger is a big upgrade over Sniper. It would make them less outclassed by Shin and Sue once you get them, though they'd still have 1 less movement than them if both are promote. Swords would also give them weapon triangle against the high number of axes users in the Western Isles, provided you can promote them by then. However, they would still face stiff competition from Sue and Shin due to still having 1 less movement unpromoted. 

4. Bors/Barth/Wendy: All 3 of these would improve by gaining access to Great Knight but getting 6 movement and swords + axes on promotion still isn't going to salvage Wendy and Bors. Wendy and Bors still have low speed and movement and are lance-locked in a game full of enemy axe users, making it hard to get them to level 10 for promotion. Barth would be improved the most by this change as it is relatively easy to get him to level 10 for promotion. But their promotion item is still very contested and will likely go to one of the cavaliers anyways. 

5. Elen: Promotes to Valkyrie now. 7 Mov + Canto is an improvement over Bishop's 6 Mov and Slayer is useless in FE6. Her combat would still be poor due to low Might of Light tomes and base Magic. She would also have a lot of Rescue utility. This would put on her on more even footing with Saul and make her much better overall.

6. Saul: His combat would be marginally improved by Anima magic, but he's not really used for his combat anyways. Anima magic has higher Might than Light magic, making Sage the better choice for combat purposes. There are no monsters in FE6, making Slayer useless. 

7.. Shanna: This one is actually an interesting case. Shanna benefits a lot from gaining swords from her Falcoknight promotion during the Western Isles arc. Falcoknight also gets more HP, Def and Res. Wyvern Knight would give her +4 Con, preventing her from getting weighed down by Iron Lances and not getting weighed down as much by heavier weapons. Pierce is also nice, but has too low an activation rate to be relied on. I think that Shanna actually has a decent case to go for Falcoknight here. 

 

 

Edited January 11 by Cdijk16

[ping]

The Wyvern Knight option would be a nice buff for Shanna and Tate, since its higher Con increase would be translated 1:1 into AS for all lances except for Slim and Iron. There would still be a point in early-promoting Shanna into Falcoknight for the Western Isles, but Tate would absolutely want to go Wyvern Knight every time. Killer Lance is the default weapon at that point, anyway.

For the Axe Bros, this is more difficult to answer, since the Fighter->Warrior promotion is so much worse in SacSto than in BinBla. The "correct" choice for Garcia is Hero because he doesn't get any Spd out of Warrior, but Lot and Wade do gain +2 Spd from their promotion. If Hero would still be the faster option, it would definitely be the way to go for them, but if both gave the same +Spd, it would be a pretty balanced decision. Warrior maybe a bit stronger long-term, since bows are a better weapon type than swords in the later stages of the game, but Lot/Wade might promote when enemy axe users are still prominent.

Summoners are great, so that would be a fantastic boon for Raigh. Sophia would find herself in a similar (well... worse) situation than Shaman->Summoner!Ewan - more effort with no real advantage.

Mage Knight Lugh? Mage Knight Lugh. (also Lilina and Hugh, obviously, but Lugh is the best of the three anyway. Also, MK has a higher Mag bonus than Sage in SacSto, which Lugh would certainly appreciate, too)

2 hours ago, Cdijk16 said:

5. Elen/Saul: Both of these would have their combat marginally improved by Anima magic, but they're not really used for their combat anyways. Anima magic has higher Might than Light magic, making Sage the better choice for combat purposes. There are no monsters in FE6, making Slayer useless. 

Natasha's alternative to Bishop is Valkyrie, actually, so that would be a pretty sweet deal for Elen. As you said, wihout Slayer, Bishop doesn't make a great case for itself.

For the average player, that might even make her better than Saul - one of my Unpopular Opinions (tm) about BinBla is that Elen isn't that much worse than Saul to begin with, unless you're playing at a dondon pace, and having a horsie for a healer is just really useful. Not only to keep up with the rest, but a nice aspect of Clarine and Cecilia is that they can partake in rescue/drop shenanigans when their staff utility isn't needed.

Edited January 11 by ping

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

12 hours ago, Cdijk16 said:

5. Elen: Promotes to Valkyrie now. 7 Mov + Canto is an improvement over Bishop's 6 Mov and Slayer is useless in FE6. Her combat would still be poor due to low Might of Light tomes and base Magic. She would also have a lot of Rescue utility. This would put on her on more even footing with Saul and make her much better overall.

6. Saul: His combat would be marginally improved by Anima magic, but he's not really used for his combat anyways. Anima magic has higher Might than Light magic, making Sage the better choice for combat purposes. There are no monsters in FE6, making Slayer useless. 

I would assume that, translated to FE6, the Slayer skill would grant effective damage against Manaketes. It already offers bonus damage against Necrodragons in its base game. Enough to favor Bishop over either (Light) Valkyrie or Sage? Debatable, sure.

Also, are we imagining "Ranger = No.ad Trooper"? If so, then they're all screwed, by missing out on a point of movement after promotion. And possibly before, because whatever mounted Bow class promotes into a 7-move Ranger would almost certainly have just 6-move to start with.

Speaking of which, hope Clarine and Cecilia enjoy 1 less point of movement. Ugh. Have fun in the desert.

[Cdijk16]

3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I would assume that, translated to FE6, the Slayer skill would grant effective damage against Manaketes. It already offers bonus damage against Necrodragons in its base game. Enough to favor Bishop over either (Light) Valkyrie or Sage? Debatable, sure.

Also, are we imagining "Ranger = No.ad Trooper"? If so, then they're all screwed, by missing out on a point of movement after promotion. And possibly before, because whatever mounted Bow class promotes into a 7-move Ranger would almost certainly have just 6-move to start with.

Speaking of which, hope Clarine and Cecilia enjoy 1 less point of movement. Ugh. Have fun in the desert.

1. I am a bit unsure about Slayer being effective against FE6 Manaketes since the playable Manakete Myrrh isn't affected by Slayer. Manaketes (unlike Draco zombies) are not treated as monsters for the purpose of effective damage from Slayer and monster slaying weapons according to this page from the .org Wiki: Bonus damage - Fire Emblem Wiki , so I assumed Slayer wouldnt be effective against FE6 Manaketes either.

2. Nomads and Nomad Troopers are assumed to be distinct from Rangers since there aren't any Nomads in FE8. They still get to keep their 7 and 8 Mov respectively. They are exempt from split promotions since there is no precedent in FE8 for what unpromoted Nomads would have as their second choice for promotion.

[Cdijk16]

Continuation of the OP

8. Dieck/Ogier: This is another interesting case. Ranger and Hero is one of the more balanced promotion choices in FE8, and this likely carries over to FE6 to some extent. I think Hero is better overall as it gives him 1-2 Range with Hand Axes, which is a big deal. Ranger also has a decent case as it gives 1 Extra move(very useful in FE6 large maps, helps him keep up with the rest of the team without being rescued) and lets him deal chip damage while avoiding counters. I think having bows would be more impactful too due to FE6's stronger enemies. 

9. Ward/Lot: Would benefit greatly from the speed provided by the Hero promotion. Gaining swords would also be great for them as using them would help alleviate their bad hit rates. Would be a little better, but their promotion item is still very contested and they still have bad hit rates prior to promoting.

10. Chad/Astol/Cath: Still can't promote as the Thief promotion item doesn't exist in FE6. They might face some competition for Thief utility from Assasins in theory, but the game's two Myrmidons have little reason to go the Assassin route anyways, so it shouldn't be much of an issue. More or less unchanged.

11. Lugh/Lillina/Hugh: All 3 would be greatly improved by going Mage Knight. 7 Mov would help them keep up with the mounted units and they would also have fantastic Rescue-drop utility thanks to their low con. They would also be able to use Mend staves right after promotion. 

12. Clarine: Would be much worse off due to losing a whole point of movement. Mage Knight would be marginally better as Anima magic is better than Light magic overall. 

13. Rutger/Fir: Would be mostly unchanged. They would still prefer to go Swordmaster as +15 Crit rate helps them to more consistently one round enemies. Using them for Thief utility would be a waste of a good combat unit and Silencer proc rate is too low to rely on. They' would both get a little worse as they lose 15 Crit. 

14. Sue/Shin: Mostly unchanged. Would get a little worse in relative terms as now as the unpromoted archers and the 3 mages will compete with them for the role of mounted chip damage. Increased number of mounted units would also make their Rescue utility less unique. They'd still be better at both these things than the promoted archers and mages as they still have 1 extra movement compared to them though.

15. Trec/Noah: See Alan/Lance. Increased number of mounted units means their Canto, high Mov and rescue-drop utility is less unique.

Edited January 12 by Cdijk16