Branched Promotions or One-Way Promotions

[Not Changed by VASM :(]

By the logic that a character's class should be related to their personality is ridicules.

By that logic every single character shuld get their own promotion path.

[Lord Glenn]

Seriously, can someone give me the reasoning behind this?

One class is better, therefore having no choice wins? With branched, you can always just choose the better class, but you also have the OPTION of taking the other one. Single path only has one option period.

YOU GUYS LACK LOGIC! GRAH!

EDIT: And if you want to extend that, some CHARACTERS are clearly better than others, so should we cut it down to a one CHARACTER game?

Just asking is all, the position seems poorly thought out.

You can take the other class if you want to, but it serves no real point except for personal preference. The fact of the matter is that the classes still aren't balanced (especially also given the fact that you can choose either one and still get away with it in FE8, since nothing's going to really stop you too much to begin with). I'd rather not have the option of choosing classes since it doesn't matter anyway. Having two classes doesn't add to a replay factor, at least not in FE8, anyway. It's more a case of appearance and caps, so it'd be almost better if there was only one class. Let you go to use different characters and different strategies instead of worrying about what promotion to pick. If they're going to throw multiple promotions at the player, default them to certain characters, so that if you want to use the alternate class, you have to use a different character. That way, you're at least getting a different experience. (Or, alternatively, have the promotions alter the characters growths by percentages so the different promotions actually affect the character in different ways. A less severe case of FEDS's system, I think.)

[Ercdouken]

While I did like the idea of branched promotions in FE8, one class is always better than the other so I'm going with Single one-way.

[Defeatist Elitist]

You can take the other class if you want to, but it serves no real point except for personal preference. The fact of the matter is that the classes still aren't balanced (especially also given the fact that you can choose either one and still get away with it in FE8, since nothing's going to really stop you too much to begin with). I'd rather not have the option of choosing classes since it doesn't matter anyway. Having two classes doesn't add to a replay factor, at least not in FE8, anyway. It's more a case of appearance and caps, so it'd be almost better if there was only one class. Let you go to use different characters and different strategies instead of worrying about what promotion to pick. If they're going to throw multiple promotions at the player, default them to certain characters, so that if you want to use the alternate class, you have to use a different character. That way, you're at least getting a different experience. (Or, alternatively, have the promotions alter the characters growths by percentages so the different promotions actually affect the character in different ways. A less severe case of FEDS's system, I think.)

But the argument still hasn't addressed my point. Say, let's compare FE7's and FE8's system.

In FE8, you can do EVERYTHING you can do in FE7 WITH another option. Which is often fully useable. I don't see how another option can be a detriment at all. If it is, it would be the fault of the PLAYER. I must say also that I often use differing promotions. And in many cases, the promotions are pretty equal in many ways. (Sage/Bishop, Great Knight/Paladin, Mage Knight/Valkyrie, etc)

Basically, how is an apple AND a banana a worse option than just an apple? You don't HAVE to use the banana, but if you feel like it, it's there.

EDIT: I understand that some people seem to like it, but the superiority of single system is built entirely on fallacy.

Edited December 11, 2008 by ZXValaRevan

[Chalis]

But the argument still hasn't addressed my point. Say, let's compare FE7's and FE8's system.

In FE8, you can do EVERYTHING you can do in FE7 WITH another option. Which is often fully useable. I don't see how another option can be a detriment at all. If it is, it would be the fault of the PLAYER. I must say also that I often use differing promotions. And in many cases, the promotions are pretty equal in many ways. (Sage/Bishop, Great Knight/Paladin, Mage Knight/Valkyrie, etc)

Basically, how is an apple AND a banana a worse option than just an apple? You don't HAVE to use the banana, but if you feel like it, it's there.

EDIT: I understand that some people seem to like it, but the superiority of single system is built entirely on fallacy.

If I'm not going to eat the banana, that's just wasting food =(

[Nintenlord]

Making more decisions doesn't necessarily make the game more fun. With single promotion, you have less to balance and the average quality of the game is better with the same amount of work. Single VS double isn't about which is superior, it's about if the "superior" choice is worth the cost it comes with.

[Lord Glenn]

And in many cases, the promotions are pretty equal in many ways. (Sage/Bishop, Great Knight/Paladin, Mage Knight/Valkyrie, etc)

That sums up my point in its entirety. If the classes are pretty equal in basically every way, what's the point to even having the option to pick between them? It all comes down to "Oh, do I like this, or do I like that?", and is that really warranting of offering a choice over the matter? It seems to me like you could just as easily say "Just pick one for me," and it wouldn't matter in the least which one you were given. And, as such, that's basically the same as only having one option to begin with.

[Destiny Hero]

So, basically, people like one-way promotions so they can think less.

[irtikliwT]

That sums up my point in its entirety. If the classes are pretty equal in basically every way, what's the point to even having the option to pick between them?

If the classes are pretty equal in basically every way, that means that the options are balanced. This is a bad thing?

Branching promotions never could get a break no matter what happens. If they're balanced, people will complain about there being no point. If they're unbalanced, people will complain about there being no point.

why must there be a point

[Herr Wozzeck]

So, basically, people like one-way promotions so they can think less.

That only adds more strategy to it, though. Because then, with several units that can promote into the same thing, you have to gauge which of those units is doing the best and choose them as opposed to some other people. It's actually so you can think more, since with branched promotions you can cheat if a particular character is doing poorly on a given stat by promoting said unit to a class where the cap for that stat is decidedly low.

[Ragnell]

But the argument still hasn't addressed my point. Say, let's compare FE7's and FE8's system.

In FE8, you can do EVERYTHING you can do in FE7 WITH another option. Which is often fully useable. I don't see how another option can be a detriment at all. If it is, it would be the fault of the PLAYER. I must say also that I often use differing promotions. And in many cases, the promotions are pretty equal in many ways. (Sage/Bishop, Great Knight/Paladin, Mage Knight/Valkyrie, etc)

Basically, how is an apple AND a banana a worse option than just an apple? You don't HAVE to use the banana, but if you feel like it, it's there.

EDIT: I understand that some people seem to like it, but the superiority of single system is built entirely on fallacy.

One class is usually better than the other (I said usually) and I have a horrible record of picking the wrong ones. Like I made Joshua an Assassin instead of a Swordmaster. And for Gilliam, as a great knight, he is MUCH worse than a general. So all it does for people who are on their first playthrough (and don't know what is good and what isn't) is screw them over half the time. I prefer you not have to get lucky and choose the best characters AND the best class. It's easier if I only have to find the best characters.

So yes sometimes you're choosing between an apple and a banana, but other times you're choosing between an apple and poop. Imagine if you didn't know that it was poop and you accidently ate it. Not fun.

And with one way promotions you can find the best characters much more easily. In Sacred Stones you have 22 promotable units and 2-4 different paths. If you want to find the best possible class for each and the best characters, you'll have to play the game at least 4 times. In PoR you have 18 units that can promote 1 way normally. That's 1 playthrough (2 if you can't promote all of them before the game ends). Much easier, because I don't want to play a game 4 times just to find who's the best to use on yet another playthrough.

[irtikliwT]

One class is usually better than the other (I said usually) and I have a horrible record of picking the wrong ones. Like I made Joshua an Assassin instead of a Swordmaster. And for Gilliam, as a great knight, he is MUCH worse than a general. So all it does for people who are on their first playthrough (and don't know what is good and what isn't) is screw them over half the time.

Considering that Swordmaster is only barely stronger than an Assassin, and Great Knight is superior to General because it has more move, I find your hyperbole highly unsatisfactory.

[Ike-Mike]

Swordmaster gets a crit boost and better caps though.

[Tino]

Except that caps matter nothing unless someone reaches them (which happens from time to time) or when calculating average stats. Higher caps don't make a class superior per se.

[TheEnd]

Except that caps matter nothing unless someone reaches them (which happens from time to time) or when calculating average stats. Higher caps don't make a class superior per se.

Except in FE4.

FE8's growths are quite high, so I'd guess the caps kind of matter.

[Fox]

I wished Fire Emblem had done more with the branched promotions system, since I thought it was a great feature that added some replayability. The Class Swap feature effectively blows branched promotions out of the water, though.

[Ragnell]

Yeah, class swap is awsome. It works really well, and is a good alternative to either single or branched promotions.

[Chalis]

Class swaps should have been an extra after beating the game, IMO <_<

(In FEDS, I mean.) ... (I don't like the class swaps.)

Edited December 11, 2008 by Azel

[Lord Glenn]

If the classes are pretty equal in basically every way, that means that the options are balanced. This is a bad thing?

Branching promotions never could get a break no matter what happens. If they're balanced, people will complain about there being no point. If they're unbalanced, people will complain about there being no point.

why must there be a point

They're equal in certain cases or within certain roles. For example, with the Sage/Bishop case (from a Monk), they're both basically the same in purpose, but it's just a decision between slightly different caps and Anima vs. Slayer. It'd be really great if there was actually some separation between the promotions. Overall balance and making it a reasonable choice to pick between the two classes is one thing, but making them near the same exact thing is something different. (Yes, this isn't the case for all of them, but it is a case for quite a few to a majority of them.)

[Defeatist Elitist]

But in general, why is it BAD to have the other option? Perhaps it's a mental thing... The only reason I've really heard is that they should have made a better overall game, but there's no guarantee that ditching Branched will cause that.

[Robert]

Branching promotion, cap the wrong stats, and give speedy units odd classes and vice versa.

IE- Amelia as general. She can range from paladin to general, opposite classes.

IE- Ross- Hero to berserker- oppsite classes again.

[Mr.Shiu and Watch]

Branched it makes each game alittle different then the last.

[Rodykitty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzShFE4Vlqo...re=channel_page

On top of that, I recently found out that you can use Class Swap to fill your roster with magic users and bow users (by around chapter 6, you'll have enough units to do so), so unorthodox playthroughs can definitely be done.

Edited December 23, 2008 by FE3 Player

[Edorian]

What I would like is a mixture of both branched and one way. Your units can promote to two diferrent classes but you dont get to choose, for example if joshua has more -insert stat here- than -insert another stat here- then he will promote to a swordmaster if vice versa he will promote to an assasin. This makes the promotion very random, you still have two different classes to promote but you wont notice because the choice will never be up to you.

[Ragnell]

Once you have played the game through once or twice, branching promotions are fun. But if you're playing it through for the first time, you'll often pick a class that it is inferior to a different class for the same character. It's just one more thing you have to find out while playing the game. You not only have to get lucky and train the right characters, but pick the right classes for them as well. This means playing through the game a LOT, which can get boring and isn't always good.

So I think one-way promotions are better. While branching adds some replay value and are fairly interesting once you've played through a few times, it is tough on newbies and people who haven't played that Fire Emblem before. Not only is Fire Emblem a fairly difficult series to begin with (I said FAIRLY), but branching promotions can make it even harder.