Jotari Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) I like the substitute units in Genealogy, but they suck. They are literally just the same characters with a different portrait and references to their lineage removed. So here is my suggestions for new backstories. To stop this from running wild and just becoming an OC fest, they all have to have the same name, gender etc, much as I'd like to suggest putting in more varied classes or different join times or replace them with older characters and stuff, Genealogy Gen II is all about those child soldiers so thematically they're fitting as they are and I don't want to run wild just changing everything. So everything is the same about them unless otherwise mentioned. I'm also going to try and come up with something to give them more of a separate identity and possibly some ways to have them actually be in the main story if the child units exist, just not as playable characters. Most of them also won't be siblings any more because they have no reason to be in the first place, other than to be copycats of the ugenics gang. *Dalvin and Creidne: The main thing I'd like to change here would actually be Johan and Johalva's recruitment. Because, it's silly enough already that they'll play a Roger and betray their country for the sake of some pussy and then literally murder their brother and father over it; it's even more ridiculous when we factor in the substitute units and reveal it's nothing even special about Larcein in particular, Johan and Johalva would betray everything for basically any woman. Though at least Johalva shows some moral fiber with his battle quote with Danann. Anyway, to bring this back to the subs, Creidne is now Danann's bastard daughter and Johan and Johalva betray their family for the sake of their little sister, giving essentially the same recruitment only with a different dynamic (this would of course change marriage options for Gen II slightly but I don't care so much about that). This also exemplifies how the people of Gannvale are not just thematically but literally forcing themselves on the people of Isaach. We couldn't really have the brothers fight to the death in such a thing so maybe you can only recruit the second one after you've killed the first one leaving the second brother to be snapped into a realization or something after losing one sibling and refusing to lose another. This would also be a natural way to give a substitute (minor) holy blood. Dalvin is still Creidne's brother, but now her half brother from her mother's side who really hates Dozel for what they did. If Larcei and Scathach exist than Johan or Johalva can still make reference to their half sister/siblings as missing or something. *Tristan: Tristan is now from Edda. His father was a messenger, sent by Claud, to inform the people of Edda of Reptor and Lombard's betrayal - and moreover, Sigurd's innocence. But when he got back and delivered the news to a younger Rodan (the Edda boss of endgame), he was betrayed and suddenly imprisoned. Rodan was in league with the traitors. As well known loyalists to Claud his mother had to flee to Isaach when Sigurd and Claud were killed. In the timeline where Claud does have children we can get some implication that Rodan was extra trough in weeding out Claud sympathizers. This choice was made because Edda is highly underdeveloped compared to the other duchies of Grannvale. I'd like there to be at least a few more characters from there to point to and a bit more acknowledgement of just how powerful a position Claud occupied. *Amid: Amid is the one that seems most necessary to divorce him from his sister. Amid is just a straight up Silessian mage now with no connection to the Frieges and he's here with Hermina (or Fee, since subs and non subs can be mixed together outside of siblings) as a fighter from Silessia sent to help the liberation and working as Hermina/Fee's body guard. The dude was obviously designed to be a native Slilessian from the start with his green hair and wind mage class and he already joins with the pegasus knight for random reasons, so making the substitute actually be tied to the pegasus knight actually makes things slightly neater. His reason for not being present if Artur exists is also as a simple as Silesse just sending Artur instead of him to Isaach. *Hermina: Hermina can't be chasing Hawk since he's not from Silesse anymore. One thing to do would be to make her a relative of one of the Pegasus Knight bosses from Chapter 4, but Thracia already did that idea and I feel it'd be unoriginal to do that again. So to be slightly more original with it, she's the niece of Lewyn's mother, thus Lewyn's cousin, but not from the side that has holy blood. This gives her a connection to someone who's guaranteed to exist in Gen II (since Lewyn is always around even if he's not a father) and a reason to specifically be here at this time. By making her related to Lahna we get just slightly more acknowledgement of the fact that the spouses of these holy blood rulers exist and have families and connections of their own. If Fee is born, she can still show up in a scene with Lewyn to show she exists and is running errands for Lewyn in the background. *Jeanne. Did you know Jeanne is the daughter of Eve from Chapter 2? Because she only mentions it in her ending, and only if she's unmarried and only if Tristan is dead (let's assume you even got the substitute units and have the right translation patch to actually view the ending). In other words nothing is done with it. Hell they didn't even give her red hair to resemble him. Well, anyway, let's do more with that and have her actually talk about it and give us an idea of what happened to these minor characters. As for where she'd be in a timeline where Nana exists, Eve followed Lachesis into the desert taking Jeanne with him and all three disappeared together. *Daisy: We first meet Daisy at the Yied shrine for poorly explained reasons (that's a hell of a long way to travel to raise money for orphans) so let's make something of that. Daisy is now a former member of the Lopt Sect that is fleeing the life thanks to Shannan's intervention. So, basically Salem except cute thief girl instead of depressed looking mage dude. She still has the same character and is upbeat, escaping more for moral reasons than her life being suffering or anything. In fact, as someone born into the Lopt cult at a time of prosperity, her life has been pretty good, in spite of all the propaganda brainwashing she needs to undo (what I'm trying to with all that is she's different to Salem even if they have the same backstory). If Patty exists then she just never left the Yied Shrine as her window of opportunity to escape was different. *Laylea: Laylea is now a more sinister character than Lene. She's specifically working with Bramsel to seduce Ares so Bramsel can control Mystletainn. Rather than Ares splitting up from Javarro over Bramsel hurting Laylea, they split up because Javarro insults Ares intelligence for being so obviously conned by a woman, even though it's the exact same thing Javarro was after by raising Ares (this might be some mild character assassination for Ares, I admit). Laylea of course plays innocent after Bramsel dies and joins Seliph's gang more out of necessity than anything else. If Lene exists then Laylea simply has no relevance as Ares isn't interested in her. *Linda: Linda and Amid are the only subs with holy blood, and I've already eliminated Amid's connection to the Frieges and we still need someone to hate Hilda, so I don't want to take away that connection. But it's still so contrived for Tailtiu and Bloom to have this whole other sister than is just never mentioned unless Tailtiu reproduces. So it would be more trying to work Linda and her mother Ethnia in to the main continuity whether or not Tine exists. I'm not sure how exactly to directly reference them in a non subs scenario, but I think altering them to a clear cadet branch of the family rather than another sister of Bloom that has a Schrodinger's existence. *Asaello: Asaello is now a straight up mercenary. No orphans, he's just in it for the money and not quite as good a guy. Like Beowulf you can now hire him by talking to him with anyone and not just Daisy. And unlike the other sub kids, he still appears as an enemy even if Faval exists. Only because his rivalry with Faval you can't hire him if Faval exists. This would essentially make him a minor boss character that you can recruit if you don't have a certain character, like Ilios in Thracia. *Hawk: We still need a freedom fighter leader for Munster so Hawk still fullfills that role, the main thing would be changing his origin. Let's make him specifically from Miletos, since that region gets so little development. He's ended up in Munster trying to stop the child hunts at their source. If Ced exists then Hawk is the random NPC villager Ced talks to in his first scene showing us he still exists and is fighting, just as an offscreen character. *Charlot: Charlot is now Hannibal's bonified son instead of Hannibal just having some kind of drive to support adoption. If Coirpre exists then Charlot is still mentioned in Hannibal's backstory as a child he lost during the course of the war. *Deimne and Muirne: These two were the hardest to come up with something for, as they really have the least to work with. So, instead, they're going to facilitate the existence of another character, Adean. Because Adean survives the Belhalla massacre. Lester and Lana talk about her, we just never see her. She just devalues the tragedy by being confirmed alive without actually doing anything with the character, the worst of both worlds. Well, now we see an older Adean. She appears at the start of Gen II running the orphanage that the characters grew up and shelters them in Tir Na Nog. I don't have anything grand or specific for her to do, but she's there and her fans can rejoice. But, if she was killed or childless in Gen 1, then Demine and Muirne have a different parental figure running the orphanage. And old man for maximum variety. Yes, this is basically just doing the same thing the substitute units already do that I criticize only with an NPC instead of a playable character, but it was the best of the ideas I could come up. Other loose ideas was to make them former aristocrats of Isaach that don't have holy blood, but I felt Gen II and the substitutes needs to be more commoner focused. And those are my loose ideas on the matter. Tell me which you like and if you have any ideas of your own about more naturally integrating the subs into the story. Edited March 15 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPGuy96 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 2 hours ago, Jotari said: Anyway, to bring this back to the subs, Creidne is now Danann's bastard daughter and Johan and Johalva betray their family for the sake of their littler sister, giving essentially the same recruitment only with a different dynamic (this would of course change marriage options for Gen II slightly but I don't care so much about that). This also exemplifies how the people of Gannvale are not just thematically but literally forcing themselves on the people of Isaach. We couldn't really have the brothers fight to the death in such a thing so maybe you can only recruit the second one after you've killed the first one leaving the second brother to be snapped into a realization or something after losing one sibling and refusing to lose another. I think it would be nice to introduce Lex (and his Brave Axe) here somehow. Perhaps Creidne's mom nursed Lex after the BBQ, though he eventually succumbed to his wounds. In the meantime, he gave his, um, not quite sister-in-law his Brave Axe and begged her to help redeem his (and her daughter's) family. Creidne tells her sob story and offers whichever of her half-siblings the Brave Axe as a memento of Lex and they have a change of heart and go against their corrupt father. Alternatively, Dalvin could have this story instead and get a Hero class with axe access upon promotion in order to use his uncle's memento, and we could all just murder Johan and Johalva. 2 hours ago, Jotari said: (this might be some mild character assassination for Ares, I admit) I think it's probably consistent for Ares to inherit the intelligence of his father. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 1 hour ago, RPGuy96 said: I think it would be nice to introduce Lex (and his Brave Axe) here somehow. Perhaps Creidne's mom nursed Lex after the BBQ, though he eventually succumbed to his wounds. In the meantime, he gave his, um, not quite sister-in-law his Brave Axe and begged her to help redeem his (and her daughter's) family. Creidne tells her sob story and offers whichever of her half-siblings the Brave Axe as a memento of Lex and they have a change of heart and go against their corrupt father. Alternatively, Dalvin could have this story instead and get a Hero class with axe access upon promotion in order to use his uncle's memento, and we could all just murder Johan and Johalva. The problem with trying to use any first gen units in that way is that they're not gauranteed to reach the barbeque. The subs also exist because Lex could be murdered by bandits in the prologue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 Ooh, I like the concept! On 3/3/2024 at 12:03 PM, Jotari said: Anyway, to bring this back to the subs, Creidne is now Danann's bastard daughter and Johan and Johalva betray their family for the sake of their littler sister, giving essentially the same recruitment only with a different dynamic (this would of course change marriage options for Gen II slightly but I don't care so much about that) So, would Creidne have minor Neir holy blood? That could be a great way to distinguish an otherwise wholly unremarkable unit. For once, an actually bulky FeMyrm. Even better if Hero could use Axes, but... Oh, as for Dalvin, maybe he's Creidne's half-brother? Like, they share the same Mom, but Dalvin is the son of their Mom's husband, rather than Danann. If the Mom was already married, it adds extra bite - Creidne loathes Danann for forcing himself upon her mother. And the House of Dozel, for forcing itself upon Isaach writ large. Anyway, if they're half-siblings, then they still couldn't get married (hopefully). On 3/3/2024 at 12:03 PM, Jotari said: Deimne and Muirne: They are now from Edda I'm not opposed to giving Edda more relevance, but this introduces a problem. Namely, Deimne's "secret event" in chapter 6, where he reunites with an old friend at Isaach Castle and gains +5 Strength. This is kind of rooted in him being... well, Isaachian. Even if his brown hair suggests otherwise. As for Muirne, I'd prefer she stay Isaachian as well. Both because she looks the part, with her black hair, and because she's the only magic user from the whole country. Not everyone from Isaach needs to be a swordie, dammit! If she's a nun (thry do NOT mix eith warfare, after all), perhaps she could offer insight on the Isaachian religion? On 3/3/2024 at 12:03 PM, Jotari said: Tristan: I don't have a lot to give Tristan. Diarmuid is already one of the most forgettable child units despite being in two games and his substitute counter part is no better. I mention making him Jeanne's cousin instead of brother in her section below. Uh, how about Tristan is now from Edda? To give him some lore, let's say his father was a messenger, sent by Claud, to inform the people of Edda of Reptor and Lombard's betrayal - and moreover, Sigurd's innocence. But when he got back and delivered the news to a younger Rodan, he was betrayed and suddenly imprisoned. Maybe executed, IDK. Point is, Rodan was in league with the traitors. Either way, Tristan had to grow up without a father, with only himself and his mother knowing the truth. So when he came of age, he set out to aid Seliph's Liberation Army. As for why this doesn't happen if Claud survives... uh... let's say a paranoid Rodan has the whole family killed instead, before Claud can make it back. And regarding Jeanne, in this model, there'd be no obstacle to pairing them up. If we wanted to create an obstacle, uh... we could make Tristan racist? "Sorry, but I don't date Augustrians!" On 3/3/2024 at 12:03 PM, Jotari said: Laylea: Laylea is now a more sinister character than Lene. She's specifically working with Bramsel to seduce Ares so Bramsel can control Mystletainn. Haha, this is pretty funny. I like how you give more "edge" to some of the substitutes. And I'll take "femme fatale" over "damsel in distress" any night. On 3/3/2024 at 12:03 PM, Jotari said: Charlot: Charlot is now Hannibal's bonified son instead of Hannibal just having some kind of drive to support adoption. If Coirpre exists then Charlot is still mentioned in Hannibal's backstory as a child he lost during the course of the war. It's not Hannibal's fault, he has a narrow urethra! Er, I mean... that boy ain't right. Yep. On-board with Charlot being Hannibal's non-boneless son. Maybe his mother, and Hannibal's late wife, was some sort of sorceress, who had owned the Berserk staff? That would make it a family heirloom, and Charlot's birthright. On 3/3/2024 at 12:03 PM, Jotari said: Daisy is now a former member of the Lopt Sect that is fleeing the life thanks to Shannan's intervention. Ooh, maybe she gets a special conversation with the Yied boss? That no one will ever see, because it's a suicide mission. On 3/3/2024 at 12:03 PM, Jotari said: Like Beowulf you can now hire him by talking to him with anyone and not just Daisy. Good deal. This "buy my loyalty" mechanic feels sorely underutilized. I also like the idea of him being an enemy, if Febail is around. Mechanically speaking, it'd be cool to see Asaello get the Longbow - either by default, or via his secret event. He's such a "nothing" character in the base game, essentially always worse than Febail. But this would let him bring something unique to the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted March 5 Author Share Posted March 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Ooh, I like the concept! So, would Creidne have minor Neir holy blood? That could be a great way to distinguish an otherwise wholly unremarkable unit. For once, an actually bulky FeMyrm. Even better if Hero could use Axes, but... Yes, she'd have minor Neir. In the actual game two siblings have minor holy blood, both Thrud, I've changed Amid to be bloodless and made Creidne minor Neir. There is temptation to make others minor blood characters for similar reasons, but I'd like to hold back a bit because I feel the subs should be part of the ordinary gang. His is a case where it would work for the plot though. 1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Oh, as for Dalvin, maybe he's Creidne's half-brother? Like, they share the same Mom, but Dalvin is the son of their Mom's husband, rather than Danann. If the Mom was already married, it adds extra bite - Creidne loathes Danann for forcing himself upon her mother. And the House of Dozel, for forcing itself upon Isaach writ large. Anyway, if they're half-siblings, then they still couldn't get married (hopefully). I like it, I like it a lot. So much I'll probably steal it and put it in the OP. It gives Dalvin relevance to her without making the idea redundant by having two characters with the same backstory, and make for a good Convo event and or battle Convo with Johan/Johalver where he expresses resentment and jealousy towards them. 1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: I'm not opposed to giving Edda more relevance, but this introduces a problem. Namely, Deimne's "secret event" in chapter 6, where he reunites with an old friend at Isaach Castle and gains +5 Strength. This is kind of rooted in him being... well, Isaachian. Even if his brown hair suggests otherwise. Eep. I forgot about that event even though I just saw it a few days ago and added her to my grand list of Fire Emblem characters, because, surprisingly, she actually has a name! (in case it's not obvious, the Genealogy thread encouraged me to do a subs run, and Deimne is actually turning out to be one of the better substitutes). Yeah, that wouldn't gel him being an outsider at all. And I wouldn't want to remove it given it's basically all he has! 1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: As for Muirne, I'd prefer she stay Isaachian as well. Both because she looks the part, with her black hair, and because she's the only magic user from the whole country. Not everyone from Isaach needs to be a swordie, dammit! If she's a nun (thry do NOT mix eith warfare, after all), perhaps she could offer insight on the Isaachian religion? A fair opinion. Though it does sort of run into the issue of "that's what Lana is already" unless Lana is already characterized and expanded upon in a different direction. 1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Uh, how about Tristan is now from Edda? To give him some lore, let's say his father was a messenger, sent by Claud, to inform the people of Edda of Reptor and Lombard's betrayal - and moreover, Sigurd's innocence. But when he got back and delivered the news to a younger Rodan, he was betrayed and suddenly imprisoned. Maybe executed, IDK. Point is, Rodan was in league with the traitors. Either way, Tristan had to grow up without a father, with only himself and his mother knowing the truth. So when he came of age, he set out to aid Seliph's Liberation Army. Yeah, I had nothing of value for Tristan so substituting the Edda stuff for him works. 1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: And regarding Jeanne, in this model, there'd be no obstacle to pairing them up. If we wanted to create an obstacle, uh... we could make Tristan racist? "Sorry, but I don't date Augustrians!" Certain pairings would already be changed like the heavily pushed Creidne axe bro, so I'm okay with making Substitutes who were formally siblings and are now not, available to marry. That not only makes them more distinct from the counter part narratively but gives them more options in terms of gameplay. 1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Mechanically speaking, it'd be cool to see Asaello get the Longbow - either by default, or via his secret event. He's such a "nothing" character in the base game, essentially always worse than Febail. But this would let him bring something unique to the table. Longbow Asaello would definitely work. As it is, the most distinguishing thing about the substitutes is the unique equipment they get. And longbow in Genealogy would definitely have a distinct advantage. In fact, it would immediately give him the ability to deal chip damage to Ishtar, something very valuable if you can't just immediately nuke her with Yewfelle (I think that's viable of you don't have Ares on hand). Edited March 5 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Never got back to this, so- On 3/4/2024 at 10:42 PM, Jotari said: There is temptation to make others minor blood characters for similar reasons, but I'd like to hold back a bit because I feel the subs should be part of the ordinary gang. I broadly agree, with one caveat - it'd be nice to get someone with Dainn blood. It's the only Holy Blood type that's totally unusable in the main campaign. Of course, if Arion were made playable in the final chapter, then this would become a non-issue. On 3/4/2024 at 10:42 PM, Jotari said: like it, I like it a lot. So much I'll probably steal it and put it in the OP. It gives Dalvin relevance to her without making the idea redundant by having two characters with the same backstory, and make for a good Convo event and or battle Convo with Johan/Johalver where he expresses resentment and jealousy towards them. Thanks, and go right ahead! I'm all for combining the best available ideas. Like it affecting the battle convos. Maybe give Dalvin a unique one with Dannan, too. On 3/4/2024 at 10:42 PM, Jotari said: Deimne is actually turning out to be one of the better substitutes Deimne moment. Aside from the subs that people generally agree are good (Hawke, Laylea, Linda), he's probably my favorite. On 3/4/2024 at 10:42 PM, Jotari said: Longbow Asaello would definitely work. As it is, the most distinguishing thing about the substitutes is the unique equipment they get. And longbow in Genealogy would definitely have a distinct advantage. In fact, it would immediately give him the ability to deal chip damage to Ishtar, something very valuable if you can't just immediately nuke her with Yewfelle (I think that's viable of you don't have Ares on hand). This would be good, although A) he would probably whiff, and B) depending on how strong we make the Longbow, Ishtar might be knocked into Vantage territory. But then again, that's the Asaello experience, isn't it? Crippling disappointment. On 3/3/2024 at 12:03 PM, Jotari said: Linda: Linda and Amid are the only subs with holy blood, and I've already eliminated Amid's connection to the Frieges and we still need someone to hate Hilda, so I don't want to take away that connection. But it's still so contrived for Tailtiu and Bloom to have this whole other sister than is just never mentioned unless Tailtiu reproduces. So it would be more trying to work Linda and her mother Ethnia in to the main continuity whether or not Tine exists. I'm not sure how exactly to directly reference them in a non subs scenario, but I think altering them to a clear cadet branch of the family rather than another sister of Bloom that has a Schrodinger's existence. Here's the question: how do we get Linda to join our team? With Amid cut out of House Friege, there's no innate connection there. Hm... here's a thought. Let's reverse the roles for a moment. After Reptor's demise, Bloom stayed in Grannvale, while Ethnia was sent to manage North Thracia. She wasn't ready to rule with an iron fist, however, and her naivete caused her to be assassinated by members of the resistance movement from Leonster. She was survived by her daughter, Linda. This is where the divergence occurs: if Tailtiu survived, then Bloom already has hands full, so he sends Linda back to Friege, to disappear from relevance. But if Tailtiu died, then Bloom takes care of Linda while living at Ulster. He pities her, but also lets Hilda abuse her, in the hopes that it will "toughen her up", so that she won't meet the same fate as her mother. Fast-forward to chapter 7. While the Mage Trio head towards Melgen to intercept Seliph and friends, Linda veers off course to target Leonster. They took her mother, so she'll take their castle. However, Finn is actually the one to come across her. He notes Linda's resemblence to her mother (knowing what she looked like when she ruled), and offers his condolences. Linda reiterates her grievances, and Finn understands them. He feels sorry for her mother: a good woman, forced into a bad situation. Not so different from Lord Sigurd. The compassion that Ethnia offerred, though, is nowhere to be seen in House Friege's continuing occupation. This shakes Linda's resolve, and she comes to think that ending the occupation, moreso than sacking Leonster, would honor her mother's memory. Time to turn blue, baybee! On 3/3/2024 at 12:03 PM, Jotari said: Deimne and Muirne: These two were the hardest to come up with something for, as they really have the least to work with. So, instead, they're going to facilitate the existence of another character, Adean. Because Adean survives the Belhalla massacre. Lester and Lana talk about her, we just never see her. She just devalues the tragedy by being confirmed alive without actually doing anything with the character, the worst of both worlds. Well, now we see an older Adean. She appears at the start of Gen II running the orphanage that the characters grew up and shelters them in Tir Na Nog. I don't have anything grand or specific for her to do, but she's there and her fans can rejoice. But, if she was killed or childless in Gen 1, then Demine and Muirne have a different parental figure running the orphanage. And old man for maximum variety. Hey, I'm fine with whatever. So long as it fits with the existing canon, wherein Deimne and Muirne are from the capital of Isaach. Ooh, here's an idea: Deimne and Muirne are orphans, and the old man is their grandpa. They return to Tirnanog, shortly after their mother's death, because it's where she grew up. The old man is already running the orphanage, and that's how they meet Seliph, and get immersed into the Liberation Army. Heck, the old man could even exist if Edain survives to Gen II. He already has the orphanage, and Edain just helps him run it. And if Edain were to become one of Seliph's advisors, then she could up and leave without truly abandoning the orphans. On 3/3/2024 at 12:03 PM, Jotari said: Hawk: We still need a freedom fighter leader for Munster so Hawk still fullfills that role, the main thing would be changing his origin. Let's make him specifically from Miletos, since that region gets so little development. He's ended up in Munster trying to stop the child hunts at their source. If Ced exists then Hawk is the random NPC villager Ced talks to in his first scene showing us he still exists and is fighting, just as an offscreen character. Oh, just wanted to say, I like this too. Maybe Hawk could have conversations with some of the bosses there? Or, even move his secret event to a village or castle in Miletos? As it stands, it happens in the Kingdom of Thracia, but not for any particular reason. It'd work a lot better if - like Deimne - he were reuniting with a past acquaintance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 24 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Never got back to this, so- I broadly agree, with one caveat - it'd be nice to get someone with Dainn blood. It's the only Holy Blood type that's totally unusable in the main campaign. Of course, if Arion were made playable in the final chapter, then this would become a non-issue. The only real opportunity for Dein blood would be Sharlow or Hannibal. And, honestly, I would say why not both? Hannibal is a prominent noble, he could be a distant relation to the royal family. And if he has holy blood then we don't need a random bossman to exposit that he's the adopted father of Coirpre, that could just be obvious from the interface. 24 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Here's the question: how do we get Linda to join our team? With Amid cut out of House Friege, there's no innate connection there. [Snip] This is golden. Only, I don't think Ethnia needs to be ruling Leinster at any point. She can just be a royal family member who is just there and assassinated for who her name is rather than anything she's actually doing, like the Mountbatten assassination. That makes it a much messier and Ethia a more morally grey target rather than her being, well, their actual occupier whose just not competent at oppression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 20 hours ago, Jotari said: The only real opportunity for Dein blood would be Sharlow or Hannibal. And, honestly, I would say why not both? Hannibal is a prominent noble, he could be a distant relation to the royal family. And if he has holy blood then we don't need a random bossman to exposit that he's the adopted father of Coirpre, that could just be obvious from the interface. It's pretty funny to me that this would make a good deal of sense in-lore, and also have next-to-no gameplay impact. Hannibal can alreasy use A-rank Lances, while Charlot can never use Lances. All it offers them is +20% HP and +30% Speed. Which is... not the worst. Funny to think of a 40% Speed growth Hannibal. 20 hours ago, Jotari said: This is golden. Only, I don't think Ethnia needs to be ruling Leinster at any point. She can just be a royal family member who is just there and assassinated for who her name is rather than anything she's actually doing, like the Mountbatten assassination. That makes it a much messier and Ethia a more morally grey target rather than her being, well, their actual occupier whose just not competent at oppression. Thanks! And well, that's one way to do it, too. Still, I think an Ethnia who manages an occupation, but tries to be nice about, could be morally gray. That's basically what Sigurd was doing offscreen in Augustria, and people don't tend to think of him as any morally worse than "light gray". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted April 3 Author Share Posted April 3 1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: It's pretty funny to me that this would make a good deal of sense in-lore, and also have next-to-no gameplay impact. Hannibal can alreasy use A-rank Lances, while Charlot can never use Lances. All it offers them is +20% HP and +30% Speed. Which is... not the worst. Funny to think of a 40% Speed growth Hannibal. Thanks! And well, that's one way to do it, too. Still, I think an Ethnia who manages an occupation, but tries to be nice about, could be morally gray. That's basically what Sigurd was doing offscreen in Augustria, and people don't tend to think of him as any morally worse than "light gray". There is a parallel to be made there, sure (and one I have made in the past with Bloom himself), but the other aspect that has me wanting her to be a more or less complete innocent and not greyly complicit is, why would the empire send a second daughter (or at least someone with minor blood) with a weak will to administrate their newly annexed (and very valuable) kingdom with a hostile southern neighbour? I know Alvis wanted a more peace and love approach to ruling compared to evil empire, but the guy is still smart enough to make carrot and stick decisions. Sigurd (though not Grannvale) also fully intended to return Agustria to the Agustrians and only conquered half of it, while the Empire has no such posturing, the inital acts of their invasion involved murdering evey member of four different royal families they could get their hands on. That's a pretty dang loud announcement of "we intend to make this arrangement permanent" and makes whomever administers the land afterwards a lot more complicit even if they are an individually nice person ordered to be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 (edited) On 4/2/2024 at 11:21 PM, Jotari said: why would the empire send a second daughter (or at least someone with minor blood) with a weak will to administrate their newly annexed (and very valuable) kingdom with a hostile southern neighbour? Maybe Blume didn't want to go, and would rather stay home? Or maybe he was part of the occupation of neighboring Augustria, which was supposed to go to Friege, right? On 4/2/2024 at 11:21 PM, Jotari said: Sigurd (though not Grannvale) also fully intended to return Agustria to the Agustrians and only conquered half of it, while the Empire has no such posturing, the inital acts of their invasion involved murdering evey member of four different royal families they could get their hands on. Oh, I'm sure they intended it to be temporary. With all that chaos - the death of King Calf, for instance - Northern Thracia just needed a strong hand to guide them. It's a shame that so many others perished in a series of unfortunate accidents. If only they'd turn Prince Leif over, then they could get back to self-rule before you know it. Within Grannvale's bounds of acceptability, of course. Like, I don't see how this is massively different from Sigurd murdering the heads of three noble houses of Augustria. And then the other two. The only appreciable difference is intent. Sigurd never intended to eradicate the ruling class of Augustria, it was all a big oopsie! Whereas with House Friege... yeah, they're bad and they know it. But it's not unreasonable that, at least early on, they would try some propaganda to get the local yokels on their side. Try to convey themselves as "not the bad guys, really!" Ethnia could be a fitting dupe for such a ruse. One more thing - even if you totally disagree on my takes above, I think this last point will work regardless. Let Ethnia cameo at the end of chapter 3. She's working with her father, but specifically, she's worried for Tailtiu, and wants to bring her back home. She doesn't know about any of Reptor's treachery or deceit - she just wants her family back. This would not only establish her existence within the first generation, but also provide some small bit of characterization: good-hearted, but simple-minded. Doesn't want to hurt anyone, but does what she must for her family and House. Edited April 4 by Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted April 4 Author Share Posted April 4 16 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: One more thing - even if you totally disagree on my takes above, I think this last point will work regardless. Let Ethnia cameo at the end of chapter 3. She's working with her father, but specifically, she's worried for Tailtiu, and wants to bring her back home. She doesn't know about any of Reptor's treachery or deceit - she just wants her family back. This would not only establish her existence within the first generation, but also provide some small bit of characterization: good-hearted, but simple-minded. Doesn't want to hurt anyone, but does what she must for her family and House. Oh absolutely. Even if the backstories are to be left the same (which they inevitably will be if that remake ever manifests) Ethnia should absolutely have a cameo, or at the very least a mention, in Gen 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.