About Lilina

[Zeldafreak007]

kthx

It's just that Lugh can't kill a damn Mamkute without Aircalibur or Forblaze that pisses me off.

Edited December 13, 2008 by Zeldafreak007

[_____]

Mamkutes are only very common come the last chapter or two. It's not that bad. :/

[Zeldafreak007]

I'm just trying to say what's going on with me, contrary to TEH AVRIGEZ OLOLOL. >_>

[Seph]

Even with Anima's accuracy, she still has pretty terrible hit.

Accuracy = Weapon Hit + (Skill x 2) + (Luck / 2) + Support bonus + Weapon triangle bonus

Lilina's hit at 20/20 using Aircalibur without supports: 127

Rutger's hit at 20/20 using Iron Sword without supports and normal mode and no weapon triangle bonus: 149

149 - 127 = 22 difference.

If you consider that most of the enemies in the game will be using lances, the difference decreases.

Rutger is like your most accurate character (high skill AND swords). Lilina's high luck allows her to get more hit.

Lilina's problem isn't the accuracy. It's her godawful speed. Her joining time is bad but not that bad.

Edited December 13, 2008 by Julius

[Kintenbo]

I'm just trying to say what's going on with me, contrary to TEH AVRIGEZ OLOLOL. >_>

To be fair, I get me some very nice Lilina's, too. However, I'm not going to deny that she isn't that brilliant when it comes to serious playing. That's not going to stop me from using her in Normal Mode, though!

[Mekkah]

You guys and your RNG screwed Lilinas.....

Which side here is using random RNG samples to back up their cases again? Her HP, Def and Spd suck _on average_. Her Mag is good, her Luk is decent, her Res is okay...but that's it.

She doesn't exactly have accuracy problems, no, but that's not the reason to harp on her. It's having some of the game-worst durability (down there with Ellen, Sophia, etc) and needing severe handholding to even pick up on offense.

[Zeldafreak007]

She has the same speed growth as her father.

Have you guys gotten a low speed Hector?

[Dr. Tarrasque]

She has the same speed growth as her father.

Have you guys gotten a low speed Hector?

I have.

[Mekkah]

She has the same speed growth as her father.

Have you guys gotten a low speed Hector?

Spd growth isn't everything. Hector starts with _1 more Spd_ than Lilina in Ch11/Ch12, in a story that starts at Ch11. Lilina starts with the same amount halfway through Ch8 in a game that starts at Ch1. FE7 enemies are ass slow, and Hector has trouble doubling. Now imagine how bad this makes Lilina's Spd.

[Zeldafreak007]

Spd growth isn't everything. Hector starts with _1 more Spd_ than Lilina in Ch11/Ch12, in a story that starts at Ch11. Lilina starts with the same amount halfway through Ch8 in a game that starts at Ch1. FE7 enemies are ass slow, and Hector has trouble doubling. Now imagine how bad this makes Lilina's Spd.

Hector has trouble doubling? And Lilina's average is around 21, which will indeed get you by well. Maybe not in HM, but I'm not basing my shit off hard mode, and I hope you guys aren't either.

[Mekkah]

Yes, Hector has trouble doubling reliably.

Her 20/20 average is 20.2. She is never going to make it to 20/20 - even people from Ch1 who promote first like Lance don't, and Lilina is like 10 levels behind them.

And yes, I am basing my shit on HM. Way to read the OP.

The statement I'd like to make is that Lilina sucks on HM ranked, not that she's completely unusable (no one is).

[Zeldafreak007]

Yes, Hector has trouble doubling reliably.

Her 20/20 average is 20.2. She is never going to make it to 20/20 - even people from Ch1 who promote first like Lance don't, and Lilina is like 10 levels behind them.

And yes, I am basing my shit on HM. Way to read the OP.

The statement I'd like to make is that Lilina sucks on HM ranked, not that she's completely unusable (no one is).

Oh, then disregard what I've said.

[Mekkah]

That's what I usually do anyway.

[Florete]

I don't know why people bother with 20/20 stats anyway. Almost no one will hit 20/20 on any normal run of pretty much any FE except maybe FE10, and if they do, it's for the last chapter only. Big whoop.

[Seph]

I don't know why people bother with 20/20 stats anyway. Almost no one will hit 20/20 on any normal run of pretty much any FE except maybe FE10, and if they do, it's for the last chapter only. Big whoop.

It doesn't matter. All your other characters will be lower levels anyway (if for example Lilina has a lower level) and they will accordingly have lower hit, might, etc. so in the end it won't matter.

It is also hard to determine which level the character would be.

Edited December 13, 2008 by Julius

[Mekkah]

It does matter, since it gives units with higher growths an advantage they wouldn't have otherwise. It also becomes unfair once you start using enemy samples in the comparisons. 20/20 Lilina might have enough AS to double something 20/5 Lilina doesn't, so 20/20 Lilina compared to 20/20 Rutger would be unfair in such regards (since Rutger doubles anything ever).

[Seph]

It does matter, since it gives units with higher growths an advantage they wouldn't have otherwise. It also becomes unfair once you start using enemy samples in the comparisons. 20/20 Lilina might have enough AS to double something 20/5 Lilina doesn't, so 20/20 Lilina compared to 20/20 Rutger would be unfair in such regards (since Rutger doubles anything ever).

But 20/5 Lilina will be at a lower point of the game, and therefore the enemy stats in general will decrease (I seriously doubt anyone training Lilina seriously would let her only be 20/5 at the endgame..). And 20/20 will be at a higher point of the game.

I believe that we should use 20/20, simply because we can't determine what the level of the aforementioned Lilina was (how much babying it would have got, and so on). At 20/15, it doesn't make much of a difference.

Edited December 13, 2008 by Julius

[Florete]

But 20/5 Lilina will be at a lower point of the game, and therefore the enemy stats in general will decrease (I seriously doubt anyone training Lilina seriously would let her only be 20/5 at the endgame..). And 20/20 will be at a higher point of the game.

I believe that we should use 20/20, simply because we can't determine what the level of the aforementioned Lilina was (how much babying it would have, and so on). At 20/15, it doesn't make much of a difference.

Even in Normal mode, my characters were only around 20/10 when I beat Idoun. If anyone reaches 20/20, it will only be at the end of the game where it doesn't matter as much and you're would likely be small anyway.

[Seph]

That's odd, because my characters (hard mode) were around 20/15. By around 20/15 I mean, they were around it, like 13, 17, etc.

That's why personal experience shouldn't count and that's why we should use 20/20.

Just my personal opinion though, don't mind me.

Edited December 13, 2008 by Julius

[Florete]

That's odd, because my characters were around 20/15. By around 20/15 I mean, they were around it, like 13, 17, etc.

That's why personal experience shouldn't count and that's why we should use 20/20.

Experience gain doesn't change from PE. The point is, even your characters didn't reach 20/20, so why would you judge a characters worth based on stats they'll never reach? Not to mention that 20/20 is the level that has the biggest margin of error.

[Seph]

The point is, even your characters didn't reach 20/20, so why would you judge a characters worth based on stats they'll never reach? Not to mention that 20/20 is the level that has the biggest margin of error.

At 20/15, it doesn't make much of a difference.

Because at 20/15 there isn't much difference with 20/20, which is the maximum level.

http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=lilina&game=6

Look here.. a small difference.

The level is too uncertain. That's why we should use the maximum level, because the thought-to-be levels are very close to it and there isn't much of a difference.

Edited December 13, 2008 by Julius

[Mekkah]

Why be inaccurate when you can be more accurate? 20/10 is widely regarded as an accurate endgame level for most units (not Lilina, since she has to pay for her underleveledness somehow).

[Seph]

20/10 is widely regarded as an accurate endgame level for most units

Well, I was automatically assuming 20/15 because on my ranked run on HM everyone was around that (albeit higher). It seemed to be pretty hard to get to only around 20/10 for me.

Edited December 14, 2008 by Julius

[Mekkah]

Either way, both are much better than 20/20.

[Seph]

Either way, both are much better than 20/20.

Much better when there is a tiny amount of difference?

Also, while I was talking about using 20/20, I was talking about using it for all conditions (unranked, ranked). Some runs will have arena abuse, some runs will have more babying than the others, some runs will have favoritism and so on, and even if they may not, not too much is different from 20/20, so you're losing very little accuracy.

But in a ranked run, I would agree that 20/15 is the best way, but there is too much of a little difference with 20/20 so that can be used anyway.

Edited December 14, 2008 by Julius