Where RD improved over PoR

[Uscari]

Hello again,

A couple weeks ago I made a topic about how I feel Path of Radiance was superior to Radiant Dawn, fresh after being both games several times on all difficulties.

Although I still agree with that sentiment, I also wanted to make a topic showing some love for the aspects of Radiant Dawn that I felt were a genuine improvement over Path of Radiance, making it a worthy successor regardless of which Tellius game you think is better. So here's my list:

 

1. Quality of Life

Radiant Dawn has faster animations, access to no animations, access to battle forecast during fight animations, healthbars, multiple windows for seeing health and experience. You get access to that straight from the start. You also have the ability to direct yellow units after your leader has moved, which I hated that I couldn't do in PoR. You have an attack speed indicator on your character cards. The shop inventory is also consistent and won't change from chapter to chapter, so you don't have to look up when you have access to things and stock up ahead of time. Overall, while I wouldn't say the game as a whole is more polished than PoR, I would say it is noticeably more polished in this area.

 

2. Laguz Changes

Although the caps and experience gain of laguz and the introduction of the royals largely make most of these points moot, I do want to point out that fundamentally I prefer the laguz mechanics in RD more than that of PoR. The fact that stats double when transforming instead of increasing by set amounts is much better suited for a long game with lots of room to grow because with set amounts you end up inevitably either making the laguz too strong in the early game or making them too weak in the lategame. I also like that you can somewhat revert and shift at will rather than wait for the gauge to fill up and empty, which makes using laguz much less clunky. I like that the game introduces olivi grass to allow for laguz to stay up front for longer. I like that bird laguz have canto. With better individual unit balancing I think laguz could have been much more relevant in RD due to these mechanics.

 

3. +1 range for Marksmen

I love this change, and honestly I think it should expanded in all FE games to have inherent 2-3 range archers at Tier 1. I felt in PoR that archers were pretty much useless due to the fact that they were pretty much mages with no 1 range, no staff utility, and lower damage really only at the benefit of slightly higher accuracy and durability. Having access to 3 range in my opinion makes archers much more threatening and relevant, particularly when paired with good map design. They'll never be enemy phase units, but that +1 range gives so many more options in player phase.

 

4. Ledges

This was a really cool mechanic that added some depth to various maps in RD. It made ranged units like Archers and Mages capable of fighting more safely on enemy phase and incentivized the player to make a calculated decision on where to move their units when ascending elevation. My only critique is that on some maps when defending it could be abused to just stall enemies indefinitely and there really wasn't much counterplay if you got your units in position. I would maybe consider adjusting it so that there is an opportunity for enemies to move up even if you're blocking the ledge, but at a very steep cost to movement.

 

5. Tripple Effective Damage

PoR's "effective weapons" were kind of a joke and never really found any use due to only being double effective. RD brings in 3x effective weapons which really forces the player to respect when enemies are equipped with them. It also just feels more fun to use these on a tough opponent and contributes to the overall more player phase focused gameplay of RD as opposed to PoR.

 

6. 3D Visuals

Honestly, I don't like most of the 2D artstyle in RD and find that the character portraits look kind of lifeless compared to PoR, but the 3D presentation saw a huge improvement. Playing both games I find that the one created only 2 years later has aged much better visually in terms of the in-game animations and models compared to PoR. Yes it was done on slightly stronger hardware than PoR, but RD also artistically improved the maps, the animations, and the models noticeably over PoR.

 

7. Player Phase Oriented Combat

I touched on this earlier but I think it's worth expanding on. Although RD has its fair share of squatting on a choke and letting waves of enemies crash into your wall one enemy phase, it does seem to balance the maps somewhat more in favor of encouraging the player to be more proactive in securing loot/objectives. Although I feel PoR compensates for being too enemy phase heavy by having a resource management metagame, I am willing to acknowledge that PoR would have benefited from more maps where the player is encouraged to be aggressive and use all units to secure decisive kills on player phase.

 

There are probably some other notable improvements I should mention but these are the ones that come to mind for me right now. I might add some more later.

Edited April 21 by Uscari
Making the sections bold.

[Etrurian emperor]

For me Radiant Dawn is better for the same reason as its worse. Its more interesting and it takes more risks. POR can be summed up as ''FE7 and FE8 but more''. Its a very familiar formula executed very well. In terms of story telling, gameplay and tone it has few flaws but also very few surprises. 

Radiant Dawn stand apart as its own beast. The swapping between factions, the more ambitious story and its overall expansiveness are never very graceful but they are present and thus give a unique flavor to the game. 

[vanguard333]

Path of Radiance is my favourite game in the franchise, and my favourite game of all time, but there are definitely areas where Radiant Dawn made improvements.

 

1 hour ago, Uscari said:

6. 3D Visuals

Honestly, I don't like most of the 2D artstyle in RD and find that the character portraits look kind of lifeless compared to PoR, but the 3D presentation saw a huge improvement. Playing both games I find that the one created only 2 years later has aged much better visually in terms of the in-game animations and models compared to PoR. Yes it was done on slightly stronger hardware than PoR, but RD also artistically improved the maps, the animations, and the models noticeably over PoR.

 

7. Player Phase Oriented Combat

I touched on this earlier but I think it's worth expanding on. Although RD has its fair share of squatting on a choke and letting waves of enemies crash into your wall one enemy phase, it does seem to balance the maps somewhat more in favor of encouraging the player to be more proactive in securing loot/objectives. Although I feel PoR compensates for being too enemy phase heavy by having a resource management metagame, I am willing to acknowledge that PoR would have benefited from more maps where the player is encouraged to be aggressive and use all units to secure decisive kills on player phase.

6. The 3D visuals were definitely an improvement. I don't think it has much to do with hardware, as the Wii was almost the same as the GameCube in terms of its power, but more a matter of Path of Radiance being the first 3D Fire Emblem game. Before it, they were all 2D games that relied on sprites. In fact, I think it might be the first game Intelligent Systems ever made that used 3D models; everything before then in their list of games used sprites as far as I can tell, with the possible exception of Cubivore; a game I never heard of until I saw it on Intelligent Systems' list of games.

7. I'm not sure that's a plus. I honestly really liked Path of Radiance's emphasis on enemy phase combat; with how much every FE game since has been entirely focused on the player-phase, Path of Radiance's emphasis on the enemy phase is something that I do miss.

 

One big improvement that I can think of is in the area of weapons. All three melee weapons having a "strong, but heavy" version and the existence of 1-2 range non-magical swords was definitely a big improvement over the only 1-2 range swords really only being useful in the hands of Mist and/or Elincia.

Another improvement would be that skills can be removed without being completely erased. One thing I didn't like in Path of Radiance was that deleting a skill meant it being completely erased; in Radiant Dawn, it instead becomes a skill scroll that can be given to another unit. I also like that skills that characters have by default don't cost skill points, meaning there's still incentive to have units keep the skills they already have.

[Florete]

Yep, these are all things I also like in RD.

10 hours ago, Uscari said:

Honestly, I don't like most of the 2D artstyle in RD and find that the character portraits look kind of lifeless compared to PoR

Some of them, for sure. I remember once listing them all out and finding it was nearly a 50/50 split for which game's portrait of each character I thought was better.

[Jotari]

15 hours ago, Uscari said:

1. Quality of Life

Oh yes. Absolutely, especially on the speed aspect. That being said, doesn't the Bargain options in the shop change fro Chapter to Chapter? I could have sworn they did (and honestly I think it's better game design if they do, as you need to weigh current finances against later finances in regards to actual need for the weapon and FOMO).

15 hours ago, Uscari said:

2. Laguz Changes

Even ignoring obvious stuff like no 1-2 range, I still feel like they've heavily held back by not starting each chapter with a transformation gauge (which also annoys me from a lore perspective, come on guys, with the exception of a few Part 4 chapters, you know you're going into battle why aren't you ready to transform? It's like every Laguz is secretly Vaike and forgot to charge up in their down time). Por!Mordecai is actually probably the best non-royal laguz purely for his early game movement and smite utility.

15 hours ago, Uscari said:

3. +1 range for Marksmen

Yeah, it's pretty great, especially with the Double Bow being the best offensive weapon in the game. Honestly Range+ could have just been their mastery skill. But making interesting and useful mastery skills versus flashy critical hits was never what they were aiming for.

Range+ skills do come back in Three Houses, and Gaiden/Shadows of Valentia has innate 1-3 range on all archers, and 1-5 range if they have a weapon.

15 hours ago, Uscari said:

4. Ledges

Yes. Ledges good. And it's a shame Radiant Dawn is the only game to have them. You're right that they basically have no counter play. On retrospect, given that later games give magic attacks the ability to ignore terrain, mages being the counter play to ledges would work pretty well. Especially given mages are probably at their weakest overall in Radiant Dawn.

15 hours ago, Uscari said:

6. 3D Visuals

Radiant Dawn was their first real attempt at a 3D game. I think Path of Radiance came out quite a bit later than they wanted. But yeah, even hardware aside, it's clear they had improved for Radiant Dawn. Neither visuals are enough to blow me away though. Fire Emblem has really sucked at cinematography for a long time now and it's one of the biggest bones I have to pick with the series (and, sadly, Radiant Dawn is probably the best they've ever been when it comes to cinematography...which is condemning with very faint praise).

14 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Path of Radiance is my favourite game in the franchise, and my favourite game of all time, but there are definitely areas where Radiant Dawn made improvements.

 

6. The 3D visuals were definitely an improvement. I don't think it has much to do with hardware, as the Wii was almost the same as the GameCube in terms of its power, but more a matter of Path of Radiance being the first 3D Fire Emblem game. Before it, they were all 2D games that relied on sprites. In fact, I think it might be the first game Intelligent Systems ever made that used 3D models; everything before then in their list of games used sprites as far as I can tell, with the possible exception of Cubivore; a game I never heard of until I saw it on Intelligent Systems' list of games.

7. I'm not sure that's a plus. I honestly really liked Path of Radiance's emphasis on enemy phase combat; with how much every FE game since has been entirely focused on the player-phase, Path of Radiance's emphasis on the enemy phase is something that I do miss.

 

One big improvement that I can think of is in the area of weapons. All three melee weapons having a "strong, but heavy" version and the existence of 1-2 range non-magical swords was definitely a big improvement over the only 1-2 range swords really only being useful in the hands of Mist and/or Elincia.

Another improvement would be that skills can be removed without being completely erased. One thing I didn't like in Path of Radiance was that deleting a skill meant it being completely erased; in Radiant Dawn, it instead becomes a skill scroll that can be given to another unit. I also like that skills that characters have by default don't cost skill points, meaning there's still incentive to have units keep the skills they already have.

I'm very sure the Paper Mario games used models. They were just, very, very spritey looking models. But they were 3D interacting with a 3D environment. But, yeah, that's why I prefaced my own comment with first "real" attempt at 3D.

[vanguard333]

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

I'm very sure the Paper Mario games used models. They were just, very, very spritey looking models. But they were 3D interacting with a 3D environment. But, yeah, that's why I prefaced my own comment with first "real" attempt at 3D.

I suppose it's possible. If so, then the Paper Mario games would be a reverse of Mario Kart 64 (the N64 couldn't handle all eight karts being models, so they're actually sprites).

What did you think of the other points that I made?

 

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

Yes. Ledges good. And it's a shame Radiant Dawn is the only game to have them. You're right that they basically have no counter play. On retrospect, given that later games give magic attacks the ability to ignore terrain, mages being the counter play to ledges would work pretty well. Especially given mages are probably at their weakest overall in Radiant Dawn.

Mages ignoring ledge disadvantage when below a ledge, at the cost of not having ledge advantage when standing on a ledge, would be a neat idea.

[Uscari]

On 4/21/2024 at 1:16 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

For me Radiant Dawn is better for the same reason as its worse. Its more interesting and it takes more risks. POR can be summed up as ''FE7 and FE8 but more''. Its a very familiar formula executed very well. In terms of story telling, gameplay and tone it has few flaws but also very few surprises. 

Radiant Dawn stand apart as its own beast. The swapping between factions, the more ambitious story and its overall expansiveness are never very graceful but they are present and thus give a unique flavor to the game. 

That's a good summary for it. RD was more unique but PoR was better executed.

On 4/21/2024 at 2:25 PM, vanguard333 said:

One big improvement that I can think of is in the area of weapons. All three melee weapons having a "strong, but heavy" version and the existence of 1-2 range non-magical swords was definitely a big improvement over the only 1-2 range swords really only being useful in the hands of Mist and/or Elincia.

Another improvement would be that skills can be removed without being completely erased. One thing I didn't like in Path of Radiance was that deleting a skill meant it being completely erased; in Radiant Dawn, it instead becomes a skill scroll that can be given to another unit. I also like that skills that characters have by default don't cost skill points, meaning there's still incentive to have units keep the skills they already have.

I like that thieves got 1-2 range daggers, but I'm not so sure about crossbows or windedges. I prefer to balance units around accentuating their strengths rather than compensating for their weaknesses. Make sword masters certified boss killers and make archers the player phase delete button in your group.

I'm also not a fan of the swapping around of the skills. One of the great things about PoR is that if the stats or supports didn't make a unit competitive with the alternatives, the skills did. I did however like how inherent skills took up 0 capacity, I wish that was in PoR (especially for Nephenee because Luna + Wrath could have been a really cool combo in that game)

On 4/22/2024 at 4:29 AM, Jotari said:

2. Laguz Changes

Even ignoring obvious stuff like no 1-2 range, I still feel like they've heavily held back by not starting each chapter with a transformation gauge (which also annoys me from a lore perspective, come on guys, with the exception of a few Part 4 chapters, you know you're going into battle why aren't you ready to transform? It's like every Laguz is secretly Vaike and forgot to charge up in their down time). Por!Mordecai is actually probably the best non-royal laguz purely for his early game movement and smite utility.

True, being able to transform instantly would have honestly made them so much better. I also agree that Mordecai is the best non-royal laguz in PoR (Aside from Reyson - who technically is a royal I guess?) for his availability, tankiness, movement, and smite. He also isn't a bad tank when trained due to his very high hp growth and abundant defense building supports. I used him in one of my maniac mode ironmans to clear clash because he had infinite use weaponry.

On 4/22/2024 at 4:29 AM, Jotari said:

4. Ledges

Yes. Ledges good. And it's a shame Radiant Dawn is the only game to have them. You're right that they basically have no counter play. On retrospect, given that later games give magic attacks the ability to ignore terrain, mages being the counter play to ledges would work pretty well. Especially given mages are probably at their weakest overall in Radiant Dawn.

That's a pretty cool idea. I actually found one of the few niches that Micaiah had in Part 1 of RD was having the accuracy to occasionally fight up ledges. Her skill bases, accurate weaponry, and support with Sothe would give her like nearly 70-80 hit with good biorhythm when fighting from below.

Balancing mages to ignore terrain is a pretty cool way to give them even more utility/versatility than before. It was criminal reducing the general mage speed cap to 32, when in PoR it was 28, only 2 points less than sword masters.