Renaming all the Lord classes

[Jotari]

A conversation's been going on over on the Unpopular Opinions thread about the unsuitableness of the term lord as a designator for protagonist, and also just how inaccurate it is as a designator for these characters. And, maybe for this reason it has actually kind of fallen out of use in more recent games with protagonists having more class narrative specific titles. So, let's speculate on what these classes would be called if from the start this was the standard? If all the characters with the lord class (and knight lord, great lord etc) had a class name more specific to their context what would it be?

Marth: I think prince is accurate for him. Even in Mystery of the Emblem he's still known as Prince Marth.

Sigurd/Seliph: Crusader or Holy Knight, which ever term is used in universe seems like it would work well for the promoted class (ignoring how Sigurd only narratively comes one at the end of the prologue). For Seliph's unpromoted class, I think Scion works for the narrative themes of the game.

Leif: He can keep his prince promoted class (which would now actually be shared with Marth) but for his unprompted class then perhaps Exile or Rebel.

Roy: He represents his father on the field, so I think Heir could be good for his unpromoted class. For his promoted class I'd go with Legend to reflect Hartmut and the Eight Legends.

Lyn/Eliwood/Hector: For them I suggest inverting the standard they currently have now where all of their tier 1 classes have the same name while their tier 2 classes have different names. Instead, all of them promote into the Marquis class. Lyn's tier 1 class would be Plainswoman, Eliwood's can share Roy's Heir and for Hector I'm blanking on an appropriate name. Something to indicate his carefree nature as a second son before he takes on more responsibilities of his own when he promotes to Marquis.

Eirika/Ephraim: For Ephraim I kind of want to go King, but that would make it hard for Eirika to have something as impressive and it would step a bit on the toes of the Zephiel king class. I'm also drawing a blank on what the best term for their tier 1 classes could be that wouldn't be a recycle of Prince, Princess or Heir.

Ike: Lord actually suits him as become part of the nobility is the narrative point of his promotion. Though, Noble, a class that would later exist as a base class in Three Houses, would also suit him. And while we're at it, his base class should have been Mercenary.

Chrom/Lucina: Exalt seems the obvious name for their promoted class (even though you can get it before Chrom actually becomes the Exalt and Lucina never officially takes the position). For their unprompted class I'm tempted to just suggest Sheppard (though that wouldn't make much sense for Lucina).

Claude/Dimitri/Edelgard: House Leader suits their tier 1 classes.  Judith is a weird anomaly who's probably better off just being a swordmaster. Dimitri's exclusive Great Lord class should be Atoner as he gets it right when his character arc turns.

Diamant/Alcryst: Something French.

Edited July 20 by Jotari

[lenticular]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Lyn/Eliwood/Hector: For them I suggest inverting the standard they currently have now where all of their tier 1 classes have the same name while their tier 2 classes have different names. Instead, all of them promote into the Marquis class. Lyn's tier 1 class would be Plainswoman, Eliwood's can share Roy's Heir and for Hector I'm blanking on an appropriate name. Something to indicate his carefree nature as a second son before he takes on more responsibilities of his own when he promotes to Marquis.

I like this. And honestly, just Second Son wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for Hector. I'm also tempted to just suggest Spare, though that might not be suitably heroic.

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Diamant/Alcryst: Something French.

Spare could work for Alcryst too, though that loses the French flavour. Diamant's should absolutely have been Dauphin though, without a doubt.

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Judith is a weird anomaly who's probably better off just being a swordmaster.

Judith should just have been a Hero. It's even part of her in-story title of "Hero of Daphnel". This would have meant making the Hero class gender neutral, but I can't imagine many people would be upset by that.

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Eirika/Ephraim: For Ephraim I kind of want to go Kin, but that would make it hard for Eirika to have something as impressive and it would step a bit on the toes of the Zephiel king class. I'm also drawing a blank on what the best term for their tier 1 classes could be that wouldn't be a recycle of Prince, Princess or Heir.

Well, we have Princess Crimea and Nohr Princess as classes already, so it could just be Princess Renais if we want to make sure everyone has a unique class, even if it isn't particularly creative. Or how about Lunar Princess and Solar Prince?

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Chrom/Lucina: Exalt seems the obvious name for their promoted class (even though you can get it before Chrom actually becomes the Exalt and Lucina never officially takes the position). For their unprompted class I'm tempted to just suggest Sheppard (though that wouldn't make much sense for Lucina).

If I were in charge of this, I think I'd prefer for these two to have different base classes. Or at least, different names for their classes, even if they are functionally equivalent. Chrom could be Shepherd as you said, but Lucina could have something that fits her better. I was going to suggest Exile but then I noticed you had that for Leif. Time's Exile? Fated Hero?

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Dimitri's exclusive Great Lord class should be Atoner as he gets it right when his character arc turns.

Agreed. And his version of High Lord should have been Boar Prince.

[Jotari]

4 minutes ago, lenticular said:

If I were in charge of this, I think I'd prefer for these two to have different base classes. Or at least, different names for their classes, even if they are functionally equivalent. Chrom could be Shepherd as you said, but Lucina could have something that fits her better. I was going to suggest Exile but then I noticed you had that for Leif. Time's Exile? Fated Hero?

Bear in mind, the first time we see Lucina's class is as an ally and an enemy. Something so specific could give away her plot twist. Something more mysterious like Wanderer or even Masked Hero might be better...no, she's meant to be dressed as Marth. Lucina's base class should be cosplayer!

[lenticular]

12 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Bear in mind, the first time we see Lucina's class is as an ally and an enemy. Something so specific could give away her plot twist. Something more mysterious like Wanderer or even Masked Hero might be better...no, she's meant to be dressed as Marth. Lucina's base class should be cosplayer!

Oh, true. Maybe Vigilante would fit?

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

8 hours ago, Jotari said:

Eliwood's can share Roy's Heir and for Hector I'm blanking on an appropriate name. Something to indicate his carefree nature as a second son before he takes on more responsibilities of his own when he promotes to Marquis.

Hector said it himself: "The Marquess of Ostia's brother is a well-known lout." Give him the Lout class!

...If that sounds too perjorative, perhaps Stalwart could get the same idea across?

8 hours ago, Jotari said:

Dimitri's exclusive Great Lord class should be Atoner as he gets it right when his character arc turns.

Assuming "High Lord" still exists, perhaps it could be called Avenger? Would reflect his theme of vengeance, while having a kind of symmetry with "Atoner".

8 hours ago, Jotari said:

Eirika/Ephraim: For Ephraim I kind of want to go King, but that would make it hard for Eirika to have something as impressive and it would step a bit on the toes of the Zephiel king class. I'm also drawing a blank on what the best term for their tier 1 classes could be that wouldn't be a recycle of Prince, Princess or Heir.

Maybe they could each have the "Sacred Twin" class. This would reflect their identities as twin siblings, the game's title, and the designation applied to legendary weapons of Magvel.

6 hours ago, lenticular said:

Or how about Lunar Princess and Solar Prince?

This is also good, although I'm tempted to give Eirika the "Princess Night" class - in reference to her title, her promotion item, and the Tezuka manga. I'm having a hard time coming up with anything for Ephraim that would complement it well, though.

8 hours ago, Jotari said:

Ike: Lord actually suits him as become part of the nobility is the narrative point of his promotion.

It would be really funny if the only "Lord" who got to keep his class name were the one born a commoner.

[Acacia Sgt]

Oh, let me take a gander at this.

Marth: Agree on Prince, definitely. If they ever let Math able to promote in future remakes, then Lodestar is a shoo-in for sure. Warriors already does that, so there's precedent. Of course, if you care for tangible continuity, he can't go Prince > Lodestar in both of his adventures. Then again, most games don't care. But just for the sake of exercise, if he did were to start as a Lodestar in Mystery and needed a second promotion name... Hero-King would do nicely, wouldn't you say?

Sigurd: Crusader or Holy Knight would certainly be a fit in for sure if not for that quirk of not happening until after the Prologue. That said, I think it would be cool if, should the game ever gets a remake, that they pull a Celica. Have Sigurd be a Paladin during the Prologue, then promotes at the end of it.

Seliph: Agree on Scion; not much to say there. However, I think it would be kinda neat if father and son actually had different promotions, if at least in name only. While Holy Knight fits Sigurd, Seliph doesn't really get a similar situation to justify it. Crusader would actually fit him more, as he emulates more his ancestor in his deeds than Sigurd does.

Leif: I was thinking he could actually be Freeblade for his unpromoted Thracia class. Before the liberation of Leonster, though still fighting in its name, Lief is still an independent force for all intents and purposes. So the term Freeblade would fit him, and references his humble beginnings volunteering for the Fiana Freeblades to boot.

Elibe: For Roy, Eliwood, and Hector at least, I think it would be fine actually keeping their unpromoted classes as Lord. We are already on the idea that Lord isn't used as a general term for Protagonist, so why not use Lord as a meaningful term then? Lord/Lady has been used as a Courtesy Title to refer to the sons/daughters of the likes of Dukes, Earls, and yes, even Marquesses. Lyn would be a bit tricky here, since Lady wouldn't really fit during her story mode when she's not officially titled on in the Lycian nobility, and then using something to refer to her being a tribal chieftain's daughter would, again, not fit during the main story when she's now part of the Lycian nobility. Also, I feel it could be cool if Lyn's class name (fine with either one) actually used a term used by the peoples of the Asian steppes. Preferably from the Scythians, being the closest inspiration for Sacae. Can't speak for promoted class name ideas, since I don't have much on this front, I'm afraid.

Azure Twins: I don't mind if Prince and Princess were to be reused. It's what the twins are, and it wouldn't be oft-repeated as Lord would've been in the OTL. For their promoted classes, since they comes from the Solar/Lunar Braces, then I do think it would be fitting if the names had to do with the Sun and Moon, to keep the theme. Though I can't give exact examples here, either.

Ike: I think it's actually fine to keep Ranger for his unpromoted class. Yes, Mercenary might sound more fitting, but if sites like Merriam-Webster are to be trusted, Ranger also has this for a definition: "One of a body of organized armed men who range over a region especially to enforce the law." This would still fit Ike quite nicely, wouldn't you say? It's worth pointing out his class is meant to be unique. In Japan, the Ranger class is still named Ranger. Meanwhile, what Sacred Stones localized as Ranger is actually the Forrest Knight class, which had previously showed up in Jugdral. So he's not meant to have the recurring Mercenary class to begin with.

Chrom & Lucina: Since Lord/GreatLord can't be passed down and they are the only two that can have it, I think it's fine pulling a Priest/Cleric situation and give all four unique names. As such, Shepherd and Exalt would be good fits for Chrom if not for, yes, the fact he can promote before Chapter 11 ends. As for Lucina, since she is pretending to be Marth, I think her unpromoted class could actually be Lodestar. Even once the truth is revealed, the title would still fit her due to the role she had to play for the survivors of the bad future. Not to mention, it would actually give a tangible use to the class. It's kinda weird how Awakening created an Einherjar-only class, and then just to the one Einherjar. As for Lucina's promoted class... hmm, will admit I don't have ideas there.

Three Houses: I agree on using House Leader for their initial classes. Keeps it more generic descriptive in the same way Noble and Commoner are. Likewise agree on Judith just using a generic class. No ideas on alternate names for Dimitri's final class, though.

Bro-dians: How curious their promoted classes use French, when it's Firene the one who has a French theme going on (even Avenir and Vidame are also French terms, if I recall correctly). Either way, I would agree their unpromoted class name could stick to the theme. Alternately, just like how the Firenese royals use Noble, perhaps something similar can be kept. Perhaps just reusing Prince, then?

 

 

 

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Sigurd: Crusader or Holy Knight would certainly be a fit in for sure if not for that quirk of not happening until after the Prologue. That said, I think it would be cool if, should the game ever gets a remake, that they pull a Celica. Have Sigurd be a Paladin during the Prologue, then promotes at the end of it.

Seliph: Agree on Scion; not much to say there. However, I think it would be kinda neat if father and son actually had different promotions, if at least in name only. While Holy Knight fits Sigurd, Seliph doesn't really get a similar situation to justify it. Crusader would actually fit him more, as he emulates more his ancestor in his deeds than Sigurd does.

Chrom & Lucina: Since Lord/GreatLord can't be passed down and they are the only two that can have it, I think it's fine pulling a Priest/Cleric situation and give all four unique names. As such, Shepherd and Exalt would be good fits for Chrom if not for, yes, the fact he can promote before Chapter 11 ends. As for Lucina, since she is pretending to be Marth, I think her unpromoted class could actually be Lodestar. Even once the truth is revealed, the title would still fit her due to the role she had to play for the survivors of the bad future. Not to mention, it would actually give a tangible use to the class. It's kinda weird how Awakening created an Einherjar-only class, and then just to the one Einherjar. As for Lucina's promoted class... hmm, will admit I don't have ideas there.

Honestly I think something would be lost if our parent child duos had different classes. Especially in Genealogy where you very much get the feel that Seliph is taking up Sigurd's mantle when he promotes into the same class.

7 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Ike: I think it's actually fine to keep Ranger for his unpromoted class. Yes, Mercenary might sound more fitting, but if sites like Merriam-Webster are to be trusted, Ranger also has this for a definition: "One of a body of organized armed men who range over a region especially to enforce the law." This would still fit Ike quite nicely, wouldn't you say? It's worth pointing out his class is meant to be unique. In Japan, the Ranger class is still named Ranger. Meanwhile, what Sacred Stones localized as Ranger is actually the Forrest Knight class, which had previously showed up in Jugdral. So he's not meant to have the recurring Mercenary class to begin with.

Well we'd be here until the cows come home if we got into every class name that is illogical or different with its Japanese original. I will say, though, that Ranger is a good promotion for Forrest Knight, because, really, what even is that? And while it was never their intention in Japanese for Ike to ever have the mercenary class in either game, I do like it as an idea for both games for different reasons. As I said before in Radiant Dawn I'd like Mercenary->Hero because it actually follows the traditional weapon proficiencies of the class in addition to being accurate descriptions of Ike. But for Path of Radiance (more of a focus for this conversation since that's the one where he has a lord class), I think there's something kind of cool with him having a traditional generic Fire Emblem class, but then promoting to his own unique special class from a generic class to display how he's moving up from a common mercenary into someone of specific note.

[Acacia Sgt]

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Honestly I think something would be lost if our parent child duos had different classes. Especially in Genealogy where you very much get the feel that Seliph is taking up Sigurd's mantle when he promotes into the same class.

Maybe, but even then it is something of a point that they aren't exactly the same.

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well we'd be here until the cows come home if we got into every class name that is illogical or different with its Japanese original. I will say, though, that Ranger is a good promotion for Forrest Knight, because, really, what even is that? And while it was never their intention in Japanese for Ike to ever have the mercenary class in either game, I do like it as an idea for both games for different reasons. As I said before in Radiant Dawn I'd like Mercenary->Hero because it actually follows the traditional weapon proficiencies of the class in addition to being accurate descriptions of Ike. But for Path of Radiance (more of a focus for this conversation since that's the one where he has a lord class), I think there's something kind of cool with him having a traditional generic Fire Emblem class, but then promoting to his own unique special class from a generic class to display how he's moving up from a common mercenary into someone of specific note.

Funnily enough, precisely in Radiant Dawn the Hero class is instead Brave in Japan. Yes, it still uses the same Yuusha kanji as other games, but it's actually marked with Brave instead of Hero in furigana (as all classes in RD follow this convention).

Eh, Ike never felt even to be a "common" mercenary to begin with, but you do you.

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Eh, Ike never felt even to be a "common" mercenary to begin with, but you do you.

Well he'd still have a unique class in the game itself since Tellius doesn't have the standard mercenary class. I wouldn't exactly describe him as a common Hero in Radiant Dawn either, but he does have a class that series wide is generic (strange translation stuff aside).

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

3 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Funnily enough, precisely in Radiant Dawn the Hero class is instead Brave in Japan. Yes, it still uses the same Yuusha kanji as other games, but it's actually marked with Brave instead of Hero in furigana (as all classes in RD follow this convention).

I believe that's the same reason that the Brave Weapons in, say, FE4 were originally translated as "Hero" weapons. Due to the ambiguity over how ゆうしゃ (yuusha) should be translated.

20 hours ago, Jotari said:

Bear in mind, the first time we see Lucina's class is as an ally and an enemy. Something so specific could give away her plot twist. Something more mysterious like Wanderer or even Masked Hero might be better...no, she's meant to be dressed as Marth. Lucina's base class should be cosplayer!

Maybe in this part of the gamr, her class can be "Shadow". Not only does she act as a "shadow" of Marth, the Hero-King of yore, but she also "shadows" Chrom and Robin on their journey. And of course, she's keeping her true identity "shadowed".

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

As I said before in Radiant Dawn I'd like Mercenary->Hero because it actually follows the traditional weapon proficiencies of the class in addition to being accurate descriptions of Ike.

It will never not be funny to me that Ike's two starting classes share their names with promoted classes in Sacred Stones. More specifically, promotions for the "Mercenary" class. Even if, apparently, that wasn't strictly true in Japanese.

[lenticular]

19 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

This is also good, although I'm tempted to give Eirika the "Princess Night" class - in reference to her title, her promotion item, and the Tezuka manga. I'm having a hard time coming up with anything for Ephraim that would complement it well, though.

How about Sun King?