The Mafia to End all Mafias - GAME OVER

[Shinori]

Elie could use JK as a roleblock though too.

[Eurykins]

You're right. JK is RB + Doc effectively, depending on how you use it (yes he fake claimed, but the claim itself is the important part, given the impression and impact it likely had on NK1).

This is why even moreso (claimed FULL JK, meaning not limited shots to boot) why scum would want to remove it ASAP, especially in a smaller game. The faster they remove protection/interference rolls, the better. ALSO ELIE WAS NON-EXISTENT, meaning we also get little to no reads to go off of either for D1 interactions etc. Power role kill + little to no associative results from the flip- what more could they ask for?

[Eurykins]

This is why Jamie watching Shinori bothers me so much, because Elieson in all regards was so much better of a choice, based on the above considerations of who was the one likely to be shot last night. 

[JamieIsBored]

@EurykinsWhy didn’t any town protectives choose Elieson either? If someone pops up as doc or BG are you gonna sus them for not guessing the kill correctly N1?

I picked Shinori because a) I wanted to stick to my word in thread, b) I assumed Elie was lying about Jailkeeper and c) I thought scum might pivot to Shinori with the claim thinking I’d watch Elie.

8 minutes ago, Bluedoom said:

why did you think that I was the least likely to be scum on your wagon during d1?

You had actual reasoning behind your vote that wasn’t OMGUS (Ichigo), sniping me out of nowhere (FEF vote 1), just parroting things in thread and not understanding why those things are being said (FEF vote 2) or hopped on my wagon, I did one post to rebuke it and then they hopped immediately back off (Fates)

[Fire Emblem Fan]

@Eurykins So, what you're saying is that a Mafia Watcher would have not watched Shinori, and instead watched Elieson?

1 minute ago, JamieIsBored said:

sniping me out of nowhere (FEF vote 1), just parroting things in thread and not understanding why those things are being said (FEF vote 2)

I'm also going to refute this. My first vote wasn't from nowhere and it's been explained multiple times at this point, and my second vote I had a decent understanding of what was being said and didn't parrot anything, it was my own conclusion based on my own reads (which have also been explained multiple times at this point).

[Eurykins]

1 minute ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

@Eurykins So, what you're saying is that a Mafia Watcher would have not watched Shinori, and instead watched Elieson?

I'm also going to refute this. My first vote wasn't from nowhere and it's been explained multiple times at this point, and my second vote I had a decent understanding of what was being said and didn't parrot anything, it was my own conclusion based on my own reads (which have also been explained multiple times at this point).

I'm saying a town!sided Watcher should have assumed that "Anti-town role Shinori" < Full-time JAILKEEPER claim Elieson and thus watched Elieson N1 assuming he would be the NK target. The fact that Jamie watched Shinori over Elieson bothers me, since everything points to Elie being far more likely to die N1 than him, so why not watch the more likely target to be killed and be able to witness who visited N1 Kill target?

[Shinori]

14 minutes ago, Eurykins said:

This is why even moreso (claimed FULL JK, meaning not limited shots to boot) why scum would want to remove it ASAP, especially in a smaller game. The faster they remove protection/interference rolls, the better. ALSO ELIE WAS NON-EXISTENT, meaning we also get little to no reads to go off of either for D1 interactions etc. Power role kill + little to no associative results from the flip- what more could they ask for?

All the reasons you state scum want to kill him is exactly the very reasoning you could state why scum wouldn't target him because it's an 'obvious' watch target.

I have my misgivings about jamie targeting elie too but it's all WIFOM that can be argued in circles.

I think targeting elie was probably the best play but WIFOM - talking in circles - blah blah.  It's better to move onto other points of conversation.

You can still vote them if you want.

[Eurykins]

59 minutes ago, JamieIsBored said:

@EurykinsWhy didn’t any town protectives choose Elieson either? If someone pops up as doc or BG are you gonna sus them for not guessing the kill correctly N1?

I picked Shinori because a) I wanted to stick to my word in thread, b) I assumed Elie was lying about Jailkeeper and c) I thought scum might pivot to Shinori with the claim thinking I’d watch Elie.

You had actual reasoning behind your vote that wasn’t OMGUS (Ichigo), sniping me out of nowhere (FEF vote 1), just parroting things in thread and not understanding why those things are being said (FEF vote 2) or hopped on my wagon, I did one post to rebuke it and then they hopped immediately back off (Fates)

It is a good question (underlined), and it is one that should be raised if any actual protection claims come to light. However, I would not want them to claim needlessly unless the game gets broken out in the open (in the event of massclaiming or such).

While I wouldn't necessarily fault them for guessing INCORRECTLY, I would still ask for their target and WHY they chose them over Elieson. The WHY behind any choices made in night phases do matter to me, because that can say a lot more towards their overall intent (scum/townside) for us to work with.

On a side note: I can understand watching Shinori based on in-thread request/notion (Since there was speculation on your claim, and it was debated afterwards about who targets who, to verify claims and such)? Though lowkey, I feel like the whole paranoia "Imma die N1" coming from Shinori was more of a front to actually DISSUADE someone from targeting him N1. Kinda a weird gut feeling on this one, not sure how to fully explain it.

[Eurykins]

1 hour ago, Shinori said:

I have a PoE that I personally needed to solve in

I could see 3 potential teams - subject to a re-read cause I didn't really do that.

Ichigo/FE Fan
Jamie/Eury
Ichigo/Eury

I'll be honest I think I was kind of town reading eury - but she town read me and she normally only does that as scum.  At the same time she normally kills me frame 0 if she's scum and im town.

 

Another question @Shinori: I can understand the Ichigo/Me (assuming this is based on me not really being bothered by Ichigo/not wanting to lynch him D1? If there's something else to this, can you clarify?), but Jamie/Me? Where is this coming from, when he's been on my radar since mid D1ish? 

Also you're not wrong- you know I don't underestimate your town!nori habits of breaking games after a single night phase lol. You tend to not live long if I end up rolling scum with you townside, unless someone dedicates protection to you. This has been seen/proven in MANY games (even last game, though I did not shoot you, chats with buddy stated openly that you ARE a key target half the time as townside to nail early to avoid progressive cases) for what I feel are valid concerns.

[Shinori]

Jamie/you because kind of PoE stuff reasons.

I need to revist day 1 and reread the thread but I remember you guys kind of having actions that to me felt more distancing than unpairing if that makes sense?

[Shinori]

My current thoughts is that I feel Aster was town - Makaze probably town, and I'm town leaning Bluedoom.  Leaving me with the other 4.

If I was to be honest, I kind of town read FE fan because they feel like a new town here but I have some worrying misgivings.

I was town leaning eury for most of day 1.

Don't think Ichigo/Jamie is the team though based on interactions so I'm wrong somewhere.

[JamieIsBored]

Re-reading EoD1 and I think I caught a townslip, they're unfortunately not in POE. 

1 hour ago, Eurykins said:

(Since there was speculation on your claim, and it was debated afterwards about who targets who, to verify claims and such)?

Yeah, that was another reason as it seemed people would want to verify my claim by going on Shinori. 

[Makaze]

My question is, why did Jamie claim?

[Fire Emblem Fan]

8 minutes ago, Makaze said:

My question is, why did Jamie claim?

Prior to DF getting vote majority, it was Jamie who had the majority. They claimed and a lot of us moved votes off them.

[Shinori]

15 minutes ago, Makaze said:

My question is, why did Jamie claim?

They were the first person wagon'd - post claim, we moved towards DF.  I really wanted people to comment on my case so that I could go back and check people's reasonings for hoping onto DF if I was wrong.

[Makaze]

Jamie can't be with FEF.

Feel pretty good about Ichigo lim

Eury I can't read but they are in the PoE

If Jamie doesn't die tonight we lim them tomorrow

Am I missing anyone

[Shinori]

It really do feel like you're in the same world I'm in.

The sad part is I think the DF lynch could have been salvaged if Elie had been around sooner because they pointed out a big townslip that I didn't notice till like mminutes from EoD and I didn't wanna CFD.

[Ichigo]

6 hours ago, Makaze said:

Their reads are very what-would-a-town-do-here and what-makes-sense instead of instincts. They are taking a very, very backseat attitude to the game.

This is word salad, nothing you've said here is actually something that would make me mafia.

 

Are you saying every town player goes off of instincts, and anybody who thinks things through deeper is more likely to be mafia? Because that's what you wrote.

 

6 hours ago, Makaze said:

Their voting choices and questions are skin deep, and they seem to be... positioning, rather than hunting.

I disagree with this.

 

6 hours ago, Makaze said:

They seem hesitant (their word) to form a PoE, and most of their posts are about keeping people in the PoE instead of eliminating them.

I don't remember saying this. That I was hesitant to form a PoE. There are a lot of players I couldn't move out of null, due to not posting or posting only a little. I think I worked with what I could alright.

[Ichigo]

3 minutes ago, Shinori said:

It really do feel like you're in the same world I'm in.

The sad part is I think the DF lynch could have been salvaged if Elie had been around sooner because they pointed out a big townslip that I didn't notice till like mminutes from EoD and I didn't wanna CFD.

Can you explain why you didn't want to move the vote away from DF if you believed they were town when Elie pointed something out?

[Shinori]

For what it matters - I do have a thought of something that we can do.

We currently have 7 alive - probably 5-2

If we misslynch we probably end up at 3-2 tomorrow, putting us in *YLO.

I BELIEVE I can get us a an extra day before *YLO.

[Ichigo]

5 hours ago, JamieIsBored said:

@EurykinsWhy didn’t any town protectives choose Elieson either?

You were a pretty big target for town protectives with your claim.

[Ichigo]

How does that work Shinori?

[Shinori]

On 9/9/2024 at 10:47 PM, Elieson said:

Townslip of the year IMO wrt Fates not understanding how the numbers of a 9p game work

This was the bit that I saw and thought could be a townslip after elie pointed it out.

I tried talking to elie more but they were stuck just reading more of the game instead of trying to interact some real time - which I kind of understand.

Leaving DF here would result in me either going back to Jamie - or leading a CFD at 13 minutes based off of one post that MAYBE was a town slip.

I'm not generally a fan of CFD unless it's against someone that I feel strongly about.  DF maybe town slipping affected my world view in a point that required me to reassess reads and I wasn't confident in moving off of it.

[Ichigo]

Alright I see. I don't see that as a post as something mafia can never do - I've seen players try to fake town slips before. They did end up being town though, and I didn't remember them making that post when I voted anyway.

 

How do you get us an extra day?

[Shinori]

I feel like I shouldn't state it at this point in time.  It's likely to work against us if I state it.