The Mafia to End all Mafias - GAME OVER

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Something in my gut feels wrong. I can't pin down what, exactly, but something here feels off and my brain keeps itching about it.

[Shinori]

Whine in front of me - IT's kind of complicated but the idea is basically like

There is a cop, a doctor, and a scum member alive in a game.

The cop is outed publicly.  The doctor is not, but the scum know the doctor exists.

Does the scum shoot the cop knowing the doctor is potentially going to protect them?  Or do they shoot elsewhere?

At the same time - does the doctor actually protect elsewhere BECAUSE the scum member is unlikely to shoot the cop for the stated above reasons.

And then it goes in a loop because the scum could actually shoot the cop thinking the doc is going to aim the heal somewhere else.

 

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=WIFOM

[Ichigo]

16 minutes ago, Shinori said:

No they aren't confirmed mafia from your PoV - but I'm asking do you think mafia!Eury willingly like throws herself into a 1 v 1 with you this day phase?  Cause that's basically what she volunteered to do.

I guess you could say you were currently the lead wagon at the time when she said it but that leads reason to believe that if she's is willing to go into a 1 v 1 she runs the risk of dying from the town if you flip villa - seeing as a lot of the town today was like "Ichigo/Eury" PoE range.  Do you think wolf!Eury would state that?

I don't think that what they did is something that would not happen if they were mafia. I do not think that it was something notable in the first place.

[Ichigo]

 

[Fire Emblem Fan]

This is risky of me but I'm going to 

##Unvote

Purely on instinct right now, because as I said, something in the back of my mind is sounding warning alarms but I can't pin down what.

[Shinori]

Bluedoom probably not with Jamie.

Re-reading their ISO I feel bluedoom is still townie.

[Eurykins]

I think, if scum was going to hammer for mislynch, they would have done so already, no? Also no lynching would probably harm us more than doing a lynch today, so should keep the votes at 3 atm.

##Vote: @Ichigo to ensure we have enough votes to lynch.

[Shinori]

Eury scum read Jamie fairly early on and I don't think it was a bussing angle.  Still kind of feel like her posts are townie.

[Eurykins]

Btw, even if Ichigo flips scum which resolves concerns/interactions on my slot, do not bother watching me. Keep an eye on Shinori tonight.

[Makaze]

13 minutes ago, Eurykins said:

Can't or won't? I think it's more that you prefer not to, than anything else lol.

Ichigo flipping town in this scenario will actually be tragic btw, if I'm the only one who has any associative flips with/against him. 

I've tried and I can't get any pings off of them because they are very calculated

Half refusal, half read and null

[Shinori]

If we get a scum flip no one gets to do anything tonight.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Just now, Shinori said:

If we get a scum flip no one gets to do anything tonight.

Why not?

[Shinori]

Fuck it I guess I'm commiting to Ichigo and we deal with the aftermath tomorrow if we are alive.

[Makaze]

I can still talk

Funny role to give to me

[Shinori]

Just now, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Why not?

Cause I'll block everyone like the rude scumnori that I am.

[Shinori]

Just now, Makaze said:

I can still talk

Funny role to give to me

Lead us during the night post flip because my head hurts and I lost some WiM this game.

If Ichigo flips town I think I'm truly baked and I don't have any trust in my reads.

[Eurykins]

2 minutes ago, Shinori said:

If we get a scum flip no one gets to do anything tonight.

IDK. If we nail one here, I say let the other one do as they please. Just keep an eye on yourself via Jamie or whomever else, and let it ride. More to pick out from in the day phase if we do so IMO. More info to be had, and if they assume that I must be town if Ichigo flips scum, we'll let them decide who they like more between you and me N2. Or maybe someone else gets picked randomly lol.

[Shinori]

##Vote: @Ichigo

If you're town I'm sorry and if your scum I'm sorry.  You ended up baited to join us on this site but I'm really not feeling it as much as when we played last time.  I'm probably just super cooked but.

If we get one we go to 5-1 and me forcing no kill means we get to pick two lynches and can talk over stuff without losing a head.

 

THIS IS HAMMER SO NO MORE POSTING.

[Sunwoo]

HAMMER SHUT UP

[Sunwoo]

FINAL VOTALS

Ichigo (4): Makaze, Jamie, Eury, Shinori

Not voting (3): Ichigo, FE Fan, Bluedoom

You guys attacked Ichigo with overwhelming firepower.

O n 9/6/2024 at 7:36 PM, Sunwoo said:

Dear Ichigo,

You are the song “Stormtroopers,” which is about the German stormtrooper division in WWI.

During the night phase, you may reply to your role PM with: Night X – Strike <USER> with overwhelming firepower. You will terrify <USER> into fleeing and leaving their role PM behind.

Once during the night phase, you may reply to your role PM with: Night X – Out of the trenches <USER> rises. You will make <USER> immune to all non-killing actions.

You are aligned with the Central Powers. You win when you reach parity with the Entente.

No, they're not the ones from Star Wars.

IT IS NOW N2

N2 ends on Friday September 13 at 8:00 PM PST. N2 will not end early even if I get all actions in early.

[Makaze]

Most probable mafia are FEF and Eury.

Bluedoom was content to be quiet most of D2. They got townread and haven't been contributing. They should be where we look next.

[Makaze]

Hmm, yep. If Bluedoom doesn't come out swinging in a big way, sic 'em.

[Makaze]

On 9/7/2024 at 7:46 PM, Eurykins said:

Slept a bit longer than expected, but I guess late night gaming will do that sometimes. Ugh.

On 9/7/2024 at 6:08 AM, DefyingFates said:

Last time Shinori reminded me lynching is always a good thing so I randomly voted for someone who'd spoken earlier in the thread, but that backfired hard and made everyone think I was scum. (So while I want to be more proactive this time, I also want to wait a bit before voting.)

I can understand being gun-shy about voting others again in order to consolidate wagons for D1.
However, I do believe there were other reasons (outside of the voting/not voting issue) that caused your slot to seem worse alignment/intention wise.

For one, there was the issue of lack of casing/your own reads on the other players, and the voting/retracting of the vote over a claim that most people didn't find Alignment indicative (I believe he was the Motivator scum). There was also the unwillingness to at least focus on the top wagons of that day phase, and hopping on/off votes near the end of the phase (which could have contributed to a NO LYNCH) is extremely dangerous to do, as townside needs to be willing to consolidate and focus on scum hunting or else scum gets a free pass-to-go for the day phase.

Remember: Townside's only weapon for the most part to remove scum are the LYNCHES. Many games I've played lack any form of Vig or other actual townsided roles that are meant to kill during night phases, so this is our most potent weapon by far to remove threats. Hindering that effort or doing things that can cause us to have a No Lynch are generally anti-town, which is why scum will still wagon others as well to fabricate townsided intentions, albeit for mislynches in their favors.

(Voting should be done accordingly, but outside of RVS, it shouldn't be thrown about without warrant or supporting intentions/reads on slots imo.)

On 9/7/2024 at 6:10 AM, Shinori said:

Enough about my role, that's old news. That's like a whole page or 2 ago!

##Vote: @DefyingFates

I am now off to bed!  Consider my vote a serious one for now, unlike my Ichigo vote.

Welcome to your second game of mafia!

On 9/7/2024 at 6:19 AM, Shinori said:

A mixture of teaching maybe but also I'm feeling some vibes from you that could be scum.

Can you tell me more about the Vibes on DF? What's different than last game, when they were townside?

On 9/7/2024 at 7:40 AM, JamieIsBored said:

Me, myself and I 

Since you asked me so nicely

##Unvote
##Vote: @Ichigo

@JamieIsBored What were your thoughts outside of jokes for Shinori to put votes on Ichigo- any intentions either direction?

On 9/7/2024 at 10:58 AM, DefyingFates said:

In that case:

##Vote: @Shinori

I'll let that be my vote for now for the reasons mentioned at the top of this page and see if anyone looks suspicious or there's a bandwagon near the end of D1. Also I just realized you saying your role is anti-town also doubles as a warning to investigator roles since you might be a veteran or some other role with an auto-self defence ability.

Gotcha, thanks!

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Unless you intend to be gone for the majority of the rest of D1, the bolded portion implies that you will be sitting on Shinori vote until someone else's claim/wagon appears concluding the day phase. Tell me: What are your thoughts on any of the other players so far, outside of Shinori? Why wait until near the end of the day phase to read/look into others posts as well? Why not pro-actively scum hunt with the rest of the players, and push to progress the scum hunting as well? 

*I don't know if this is a difference in playstyle, but it sounds very coasty sort of vibes, and I want to get more thoughts on the rest of the playerbase, not just Shinori (or myself, regarding the RVS vote you had questions about earlier). 

On 9/7/2024 at 1:45 PM, Shinori said:

They seem kind of cagey-ish to me with their responses, and their avoidance to want to vote, and hey sometimes new players are like that.

I'm going to try my best to read that OMGUS as just a noobie mistake but even that withstanding I question why they vote me.  They said citing the reasons at the top of this page but:

They talk about my joke being a joke, they talk about my claim potentially making sense to them.

They question's eury's vote again, which both myself and Eury mentioned towards being RVS.  I even went on to explain what RVS is because I'm sure it's not a term they fully know or understand.

They talk about how last game, which was their first game, I told them that they should vote.  A better thing is to maybe say have some reads but at the time I believe I told them that they should vote to which they chose to not put too much thought into it and that's fine.

So what reasoning is there to cite really?  They may have meant from the previous page to some extent where they questioned some of my play, but I've been very open about what I'm doing in this situation and in this game at the moment and none of these reasons really say much of why what I'm doing is scummy.  Hell, some of them even state that I'm probably correct/townie for doing so.

_________

Starting mafia as a new player can be very daunting at first, not knowing things to look for or all the things like EBWOP, WIFOM, OMGUS, etc.  We've kind of played this game though once of which at the end of the last game they said they would 'worry about their vote history' because of what happened.  Hey that's fine but the way I'm reading their cageyness towards their vote seems more like first time scum that is wary that if they vote someone for awkward reasons they will catch some back lash for it in the future.

That OMGUS seems like a newbie mistake, considering they don't know what it really is, and I feel their reasoning doesn't really stand up to contention.  I'm going to try my best to read that as NAI for the sakes of this game at the current moment.

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(Quoting this cause it technically directs me to the answer of some of the questions I had with DF vote earlier.)
@Shinori Couple of questions:
1. Does their gameplay seem to be driven by more scum!DF Intent or is it being overloaded with Newbie!DF mistakes/reactions? (Thinking back on the former game we just had with them, what has better or worse vibes than that game?)

2. Regarding the Ichigo voting thing earlier, which was likely to just prod life into the early D1 phase- any thoughts on the reactions that came from it? Or from the whole implications of the anti-town role claim for anyone who has responded thus far to the concerns?

On 9/7/2024 at 3:11 PM, Aster said:

I...have no idea to be honest. I'll have to reread everything closely.

@Aster Quite frankly, it's as Shinori (and a few others) have mentioned: RVS (usually first several pages) are filled with nonsensical votes that are just meant to either joke or just act as a way to start the game. There is nothing to generally "read closely" into ED1, unless you're assuming that scum would purposefully vote one way or another in purely RVS (Which doesn't really ever make sense- RVS universally has and generally will always be taken as jokes in the long run.).

So tell me: just in general reading the thread, what are your thoughts on those who have posted? Myself? Shinori? DF? Jamie? Ichigo? What of the content/commentary of things happening- including Shinori's notion of having a potentially anti-town role, the rolling for votes on Ichigo early on (pinging several others to do so), or the rest of the activity/posts since RVS voting was over? 

Under what notion do you seem to hesitate or opt for re-reading when there are so few pages to work with at this time? (On page 4 at the time I started this post?)

On 9/7/2024 at 6:18 PM, DefyingFates said:

Not sure what ROA means but the rest is correct. While I partly defended Shinori I'm still slightly suspicious of them. My vote for them was mostly to counteract their vote for me, but as I said earlier I'll change it once we get a better idea of where everyone stands and if anyone seems super suspicious. Taking Shinori at their word they're probably an Ascetic at best or Veteran at worst.

I'm doing my best to parse what everyone has to say but there's so little to pick out right now, I simply don't have much to contribute right now is the problem. How Eurykins generates walls of speculation out of seemingly nothing is beyond me and I envy her for it.

Also from what I gather, SF uses a rotating list of roles instead of having a set number of them and adding/ removing them until all players get one, so it's not like I can metagame this either.

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So you partially "defend" Shinori's gameplay thus far, but still wary of their gamplay- ok, I can understand being uncertain of his slot. (Though I do not recall seeing any form of "defense" of him, but checking Page 4 to see if this is clarified.)
However, I will state that it still doesn't explain why there's not more being divulged on others as well- has no one else stated or done anything thus far that warrants more concern than Shinori's posts/interactions? [Or, on the flip side, who comes out to you in terms of who you think is more TOWNSIDE vibes at this point?] Because the brunt of what I've seen posted so far seems to just be about him, and little else of others.

On 9/7/2024 at 6:41 PM, DefyingFates said:

It was the suspicious stuff you were saying about how you have an anti-town role but definitely aren't scum (and even if it was a joke, you saying you wouldn't lead newbies astray). While you've seen me try to understand that I'm still not 100% sure that this isn't some bizarre double bluff. I'm happy to undo my vote on you, but since all the other votes (save yours for me) are random right now anyway what difference does it make right now anyway?

Still, it's probably not a good precedent to start the game with tit-for-tat votes so:

##Unvote: @Shinori

(P.S. The votes don't need to be bold, do they? I thought it's just the two hashes that are needed.)

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This post actually bothers me slightly, because of the notion of why you now seem willing to unvote Shinori once you came under fire for voting him to begin with. You don't seem to be unvoting him because the read on his slot improved or was better, but more as a.... sort of appeasement to Shinori himself? That, and then you wave your own vote off, claiming "what difference does it make right now", as though the vote itself doesn't matter.

A. It's true that it's not end of day phase, and most people have not settled on any form of concrete wagon so far this day phase- not surprising for D1. HOWEVER, this doesn't make actual votes outside of RVS ANY LESS MEANINGFUL, because it builds reads and interactions/connections moving forward. Even if the casing does not DIRECTLY LEAD to someone else's lynch in a day phase, votes and cases can be powerful tools to gauge interactions especially when flips (scum and townside) start happening with NK's and Lynches/Mislynches. 

B. If you unvote Shinori at this point, and claim that the vote itself holds little to no merit, it begs the next question: Who warrants the vote more than Shinori for you? What others beckon the attention and deserve the vote more than he does? What good does UNVOTING do if you have no means/reads elsewhere to continue to apply pressure? What intentions do you have with removing your vote on him at this point? @DefyingFates

On 9/7/2024 at 6:42 PM, Ichigo said:

Do you mean you defended Shinori this game?

I didn't notice you defending them. When you say you are counteracting their vote, does that mean you do suspect them or are you only voting for them because they are voting for you?

What are your thoughts on the interactions so far @Ichigo, between the call for random votes on you, and the rest of the posts so far? What of DF actions at this point?

On 9/7/2024 at 6:47 PM, DefyingFates said:

Missed this, my bad! You're right. I was just thinking out loud about why Shinori would make a claim like that almost immediately. Mafia would already know they're town if they are so on the surface all it'd do is make town wary of investigating them. Veteran's the only role I can think of that would also scare Mafia off from interacting with them.

Mostly the latter, but I undid my vote. I'm still a bit suspicious, but we'll see how things play out.

I defended Shinori from myself, if that makes sense? As I said above, I tried to reason out why they would say something so baity right away.

And thank you! I know one of the help threads had a bunch of acronyms but I see I still have a lot to learn/ remember 😛

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I don't understand how contradicting your own concerns ("defending him from yourself"?) serves any good to double back on the vote concerns above.

On 9/7/2024 at 6:50 PM, Shinori said:

##Unvote

Possibly worth just using our extension today since marth is MiA part of the day but we'll see what happens as the day progresses.  Gonna wait for other people to be around and what not.

Do you mind answering the questions above regarding DF and others?
***Side note: My vote is still on Shinori for joke reasons and such earlier, but that will be modified in a bit given circumstances at this time/more serious notions.

My thoughts so far on players:
Aster has yet to impress me at all with lack of [meaningful] posts/reads and general responses. I understand that there was a downsided mood that was expressed ED1, but there has been time to respond since that has occurred. I would like more responses to questions, more reads, because at this time it's striking as scum!coasting and I don't like the vibes currently.

(I say MEANINGFUL by the posts, because by POST COUNT ALONE Aster actually has SECOND HIGHEST of the thread so far, but little to no in-game content to boast with it. For this reason, plus the fact that DF has been more willing to respond/answer questions, Aster's slot strikes me worse than DF atm.)
DF has been more responsive in a sense, but seems to be waffling hard with Shinori and the voting/unvoting on the slot seems to come at self-depreciative notions of their own power of the vote, and for little reason in backing off of Shinori. I want to hear more thoughts on the others in the game from this slot, because (while not as bad as the one above) the lack of insight/reads from this slot and content so far doesn't feed well into townsided intentions. 

Shinori once again has dwarfed the rest of the playerbase in terms of raw posts to the thread, which is probably the biggest progressive push in this thread for D1 to get out of RVS. His Anti-town role claim is odd (given that roles like Miller would want to claim the actual role outright, as noted earlier) due to the lack of details with it, and in the manner he did so does not give me specific town/scum sided intentions. Personally I assume it was meant to pump life into the game and catch other player's attentions, so it does little to nothing for my read on him. Ichigo vote call also struck similar vibes. I do not disagree with his notions/vote and posts about DF either, so I had no issues with it. I do want to hear more opinions on the other slots though, and his thoughts of what the above actions garnered so far in terms of reactions. 
But at this time, I would probably put him fairly high, if not the highest in terms of most likely town read for me, if simply due to the progression on levels no one else has met as of yet.

Ichigo and Jamie have been quieter than Shinori (by a far margin), but neither of their posts so far have struck me in a bad tone. I did also put questions above that I want to see answered, to get more insight into their thoughts/reads thus far. I am not currently bothered by them at this moment.

Fire Emblem Fan + Elieson + Bluedoom have not posted at ALL, I don't believe. This is BAD, and it heavily bothers me that 2 of the 3 players in this list I know to be EXPERIENCED players, not newbies. I would normally not pose to have inactive slots lynched/pushed out first, but if nothing improves by the end of D1 and NONE of these 3 post at all by then, someone needs to vig these slots or we need them out, whether it'd be by subs or lynches. This will literally throw the game for townside if somehow all 3 of these slots are townside with the lack of activity.

##Unvote
##Vote: @Aster

 

On 9/8/2024 at 9:52 PM, Eurykins said:

@Shinori I'm workin' on it, posts do take a bit of time for me, as you probably know by now lol.

On 9/7/2024 at 8:16 PM, Aster said:

Gosh I just genuinely don't know. Legit I just don't play aggressive. I have a hard time doing that, especially with. minimal information. With everyone pointing fingers, I don' t have a lead on anyone. I have equal suspect on everyone at this rate. Eury maybe I'm less suspicious about because odds are they're not rolling scum twice in a row statistically. Same goes for Marth.

My problem with this post: I get not being great or "aggressive" (I'd moreso state like, pro-active rather than "aggressive", as it doesn't require jumping on people or being hard driven with notions? Cases/reads can occur just from witnessing certain interactions, getting vibe checks one way or the other, etc., but it's moreso a thing of being willing TO look, TO search for what may seem off.) with scum hunting, but doing nothing/offering nothing is less than playing more PASSIVELY or lightly on the scum hunting. And that's the BIGGER issue I have currently, because even with questions and multiple players constantly asking you for thoughts, everything is coming up to the response of "IDK?". 

Secondly, having doubt on every other player in the game makes sense to some degree, in the concept of being townside (you can only confirm your own town-sided nature, unless you have a role that allows you to KNOW that someone else is of the same alliance depending on the flavor/information given). The only people who would be 100% comfortable with someone else is if they're CONFIRMED town/scum side (this is important when it comes to basing cases/reads from different players associated with others, and flips start happening. Because IE: If someone claims to "townread" their scumbuddy on little to no basis, it calls into question "Why are you so comfortable/sure they're townside?" and is generally something we use to read others based on associations/interactions once lynches/kills happen.) And even then, CONFIRMED TOWN would rarely if ever opt to voice once or the other is cleared to each other openly in-thread, because they would have the prior knowledge of 2 less people to worry about while scum hunting and would also serve to imply to Scum that they're neighbors/lovers/any other alignment cleared pairing role, which could put them more in harm's way.

However, you do need to be willing to sort those you define/see moreso as TOWN reads vs Scum, for the simple fact that we need to consolidate/majority vote lynches each day phase in order to use the most prominent power us townies have to remove scum from the game: Lynches. 

And at this point, you're making it difficult for me to be comfortable with your slot, because you've hardly mentioned anyone in either direction, which offers us nothing.
IE. If you died D1 or N1, we'd get little to zero associative reads from your slot, because you offered us nothing. We also really wouldn't get much in terms of other players, including myself, associating WITH YOU in-thread, cases, etc. because there's nothing response wise to gauge from. We NEED CASES/READS/VIBES/ANYTHING that helps us figure out where your train of thought is with the players in this game, because without that, how are we supposed to know what your stance is with the rest of the player base? 

Also as stated by multiple others- Statistics suck, and is not great to use as any form of measuring stick. Shinori has scumnori as his nickname for a good reason.

On 9/7/2024 at 8:26 PM, Shinori said:

DO NOT trust in statistics.  My literal nickname on this site is Scumnori because I went some crazy time period of rolling only scum and nothing but scum.

^ Proving my notion above. Also this post (as a side note) feels more townie in the sense that I don't think Scum!nori would take the time to literally RELINK other games/threads for mentions while including more pieces of advice/tips for the game, newbies or not. Call it a gut feeling- don't see him doing this unless he was REALLY BORED as scum. Coasting would also make more sense from scumside so, just a thought.

On 9/7/2024 at 8:36 PM, Aster said:

My read on you is that you're very chaotic, but I'm leaning towards you being town because you wouldn't outright admit you had a bad role for town unless you were town yourself I don't think. There's not a zero percent chance that you're scum, but I'm more leaning towards no.

Fates I have no clue right now, getting a solid nothing. Same with Ichigo.

So, from what I garner from this post, you're sorta leaning more townish than not on Shinori.
And then the other bolded part = nothing again. Has ANYTHING any of the other players (outside of myself/Shinori) said anything that has struck you in ANY way? Scummy? Townie/scum-hunting progressive? No one but Shinori or myself been catching your eye at all? At this point, I'll even take general GUT READS/VIBE CHECKS if you have them- please elaborate.

On 9/8/2024 at 5:00 AM, Ichigo said:

At the start of the game I didn't know if Shinori was saying they had a read on me or if they were trying to get an opinion out of Aster. It seems that it was trying to get an opinion out of Aster so I don't have an opinion for the call to action on me (And they did ask about whether we should push the newbies earlier and I said no).

Right now I am lightly townreading Shinori. I think I'm lightly townread Aster as well.

Understandable coming with the bolded statement.
However, what is causing you to townread Shinori at this time, and Aster's slot as well? What has impressed you with the slots to garner the more positive feelings? And where does that leave everyone else?

On 9/8/2024 at 5:03 AM, Ichigo said:

Eurykins you asked me about DefyingFate. I don't know. What I noticed was that they said something that doesn't seem to have happened (defending Shinori). I asked them about it and I still don't think it happened but they were able to explain what they meant.

Indeed. Does their explanation appease your concerns, or is there anything else from DF at this point that is worth noting?

On 9/8/2024 at 6:19 AM, JamieIsBored said:

Initially I was yes, but I waited and waited to get something from you and nothing came. This is with you being the joint-second top poster as well. You have “light town” on Shinori and Aster which is quite uncommital imo. You also haven’t even thrown a vote down. FmPOV you also aren’t really doing much to accelerate the game at all. The early game wagon on you to get people talking (which didn’t even happen lmao) is the thing that pushed the game forward the most involving your slot and you weren’t even a driving force behind it. I also have a quote here which surmises what I feel about you.

@Bluedoom I didn’t want to pressure my scum read too early because I wanted to see Ichigo’s natural interactions with the inactives (which my current theory is it is someone inactive+ Ichigo). Currently thinking Ichigo’s day will end with “Oh darn! I don’t have any scum reads, guess I’ll vote inactive” and then they’ll be the only one on their teammate for town points.

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On 9/8/2024 at 6:42 AM, JamieIsBored said:

It’s not that, I don’t know your meta and you might pick up steam later, but you seem kinda low-motivated to keep the thread alive. With you not seeming to want to push the thread forward, it made me think about natural teammates for you and I felt that it would fit with your teammate being inactive. If the thread doesn’t go anywhere that’s where people look for lynches. And that’s where you could get your town points.

Tinfoil, but I have more reasoning behind it than my other ones atm 

Re-reading Ichigo's posting history, I can understand where the gameplay may come across as being slightly coasty- in the sense that a lot of the posts have been more reactionary/answering questions (though I do enjoy having the responses rather than ignoring prompts from other players, so it's a + on my side/consideration), than strictly posting to progress the thread when things got slow (IE. What Shinori has been doing to prompt others at various times). However, as noted below:

On 9/8/2024 at 7:20 AM, Ichigo said:

I'm not being low content as a strategy I'm just busy and lazy and waiting for something to happen for me to comment on

Busy from IRL(?) or habitual gameplay could be aspects to contribute to the posts so far, which are understandable to some degree. Though I wouldn't be opposed to seeing/hearing more if possible with the extension completed for D1.

On 9/8/2024 at 10:04 AM, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Okay, after reading through a lot and catching up, a lot of it seemed kind of chaotic. I'm not quite sure what to make of everything that was said, or what to make of who said what. Several things seemed based on past experiences in past games, so I'm not sure I can judge fairly since I wasn't part of those and this is my first time.

That said, I'm picking up that not voting could actually be harmful to myself and/or my alignment, even though it's so early in the game. So, I kinda feel like I should vote for someone, based on what more experienced players have said?

Based loosely on what I've read and observed here and what I'm gleaming some of y'all's interactions and banter with each other is...

##Vote: @JamieIsBored

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Welcome to your first Mafia game.

Side note: Voting for the sake of voting isn't generally great, and in the context of this first post, I would have to agree with others who've stated so already (like below) that this particular vote did NOT feel good.

On 9/8/2024 at 12:33 PM, JamieIsBored said:

##Unvote
##Vote: @Fire Emblem Fan

I’m not a fan of that vote at all, feels incredibly opportunistic. 

My personal issue with the Jamie vote is that there seemed to be little to no explanation to warrant the vote. You did state "Based loosely on what I've read and observed here..." --- What exactly did you read/observe that made you want to vote Jamie? Was it something that was said/done with a post or votes happening? Did someone else's case on Jamie make sense, or did something the slot do cause concern for you? With no thoughts put forth WITH the vote, I don't understand the WHY behind it, which makes the vote seem out of the blue and baseless?

On 9/8/2024 at 1:06 PM, Fire Emblem Fan said:

As I said, based on what's been said and the advice given, I feel like I have to vote, otherwise I'm hurting myself and my alignment. And based on the last few pages, the reading I'm getting is:

-Shinori is playing mind-games in a way that makes me feel like they want people to think they might be mafia but really aren't.

-Aster is kind of like me and is still trying to figure out the game.

-Ichigo is being pretty truthful, feels like.

-Eury is actually helping and giving advice, which I feel like maybe wouldn't happen if they were mafia.

-Bluedoom was absent and it didn't feel fair to judge someone who gave prior notice to an absence.

-Obviously I can't vote for myself.

That left me with three mystery persons, and of the three I felt like one of the two who was more under the radar was the correct choice, because being under the radar feels like a strategy that could be pretty popular.

Absolutely none.

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Voting is singlehandedly the strongest driving force behind securing lynches for town, and utilizing the power we have to scumhunt, yes. However, just because you CAN and SHOULD vote does not mean you should vote on a WHIM without justifying it. Because things like MISLYNCHES can also occur if people pile mindless votes onto a wagon, and it can lead to deaths of other townies and cause townside to throw games. 

However, this at least does provide more insight into thoughts/reads so far in the game (sort of), which I can appreciate.
1. Shinori : Your considerations on his posts/actions thus far: Would anything that has been said/done so far make more sense coming from Scum!Shinori vs Town!Shinori? Is there any scum intentions behind his posts? Is your read on him implying you have more of a townread on him, or more of a null or scum read? Not sure where you stand with him atm.

2. Aster: Newbies unite, I get it. However, do you believe Aster has produced anything meaningful or attempted to provide any form of cases/reads that would make you comfortably view them as coming from townside? New-aspect aside, what read do you have on this slot at this time?

3. Ichigo: Truthful about what? Their thoughts/opinions/reads? Being honest is one thing, but is being straight with their responses enough to formulate a townread on their slot as a result? What does his slot seeming truthful do for you?

4. Eury (hey it's me!): Honestly, being willing to help newbies is NAI (non-alignment indicative) tbh. Shinori is a prime example of that- constantly voicing tips/notions/general ideas is something more experienced players of Mafia games will do from EITHER ALIGNMENT, so I would not use it to purely base reads upon any player slot, myself or otherwise. However, I would like to know more about what you think of my slot- has there been any questions or such for me that you want answered, or anything noteworthy in either direction?

5. Bluedoom: ED1 absence is understandable, since it was even announced by host (which I admittedly forgot about in one of my other posts), but any considerations since this slot has started to post? In any reads/votes so far?

6. I mean you COULD vote yourself, but it is considered the most anti-town thing you could do, so I generally wouldn't recommend it.

For a new player/first game, I can see the attempt to get reads, which I give you 2 thumbs up for by the second post/notion I saw. Do you mind offering some input though to help clarify the questions above though @Fire Emblem Fan? Both the questions here + the vote with Jamie, if you would be so kind to elaborate on the earlier concerns.

On 9/8/2024 at 1:13 PM, DefyingFates said:

What makes you say this?

They did this last game too and were mafia, so... yeah. Unfortunately how helpful someone is isn't a metric we can use.

Apart from you and Blue who haven't been around enough, the only ones I don't have a proper read on are Ichigo, Eury and Jamie (and Elieson but they still haven't posted yet). So if I were to vote it'd probably be one of them. Did Elie tell anyone they'd be busy today or yesterday?

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Can agree that doing so is NAI, as mentioned above. However, is there anything else that is concerning regarding my own slot or Jamie or others? (Disregarding Elieson since basically no posts have been made of any merit atm.) What questions or issues do you have, and what sort of priority is being given for consolidations for today from your PoV?

On 9/8/2024 at 1:45 PM, JamieIsBored said:

Yes, feels like scum just jumping onto a town wagon to hope for a mislynch.

I gave them over an hour to respond to my question on their read. 

Issue with "giving them an hour" though is that people have a wide variety of timezones/availability in general. 1hr if someone is sleeping or working means nothing, so I'd take that as a grain of salt-- if it was a 6-8hr+ period for a question though, that would be a more understandable timeframe to have concern imo. 

Who concerns you the most in those who have voted you thus far? Worst to most reasonable casing of votes regarding those on the wagon? 

On 9/8/2024 at 2:00 PM, Fire Emblem Fan said:

I guess? I'm honestly a little confused at the moment, I'm still trying to figure out what's going on and what's happening. And if I'm being completely honest, some of the posts and profile pictures are blending together.

I will also note for everyone here (and it's the only time I'll note it because I don't like talking about it), I have to both read and write things more than once before I have it down, I am dyslexic, and I have noted it on SF before.

I'm gonna be honest, I don't know that I can do this at the moment, because I'm still figurint it out and because I don't know what "scum" is supposed to mean and that feels kind of overly hostile?

I'm not really 100% sure what a mislynch is so I promise you I'm not doing whatever you're accusing me of.

That is hardly any time at all in the internet world. Especially since Sundays are no longer a "no work/relax" day for many, including me.

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Something that can help is that, on the first page of this forum thread, there's a playerlist that shows @ player names and you can click on each one to see their posting history, and general information of the posts so far in-game. It does sorta take things out of in-thread context (as it will only show their posts), but it can be a good way to briefly check in, see the quality/types of posts they've made, and be able to click on each one to jump into the thread of when the post happened, who they responded to, etc. (It can be good for example, to check overall post interaction/count and see as to whether the player is being proactive or not, or moreso coasting and posting minimally as the day progresses.) 

It can be easier to sort out thoughts/reads on players by going thru them individually, rather than as a whole/re-reading the thread pages in one bulk sitting, if that helps any. 

On 9/8/2024 at 2:23 PM, Aster said:

Yeah, wouldn't mind an extension on my end either. Got college and a few IRL things to worry about. Gonna comb through this again to see what I might've missed.

I do think that the FeFan vote on Jamie is weird but in turn for all we know Jamie voting them back and saying it could be a rally is exactly what they're doing as well (which Shinori also tried to rally and while he did get scumread a bit not really as hard). Might keep an eye on both of you going forward but no hard scumreads so far.

##Vote: Extension

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On 9/8/2024 at 2:53 PM, Aster said:

At the start Shinori tried to get everyone to vote Ichigo, but granted that was to generate discussion (possibly). I'm thinking this is likely just an exchange and in turn voting for each other, but not impossible either of you are scum throwing shade on another player.

@Aster Tell me, who is scum? Who is town? None of your reads are coming thru clearly at all, and none of the reads you have are indicating whether you're finding them townside or scumside. It's coming off extremely waffly, which is making it harder for me to see this as just newbie paralysis, because there have been plenty of questions/opportunities presented by other players to you directly for clarity, when none has been given.

What does the Shinori -> Ichigo voting do for the slot? What overall read from FEFan do you have? What about Jamie, Ichigo, or anyone else in the game? Who would you consolidate on by the end of D1, as the top 3 priorities for you for lynch consolidation? 

On 9/8/2024 at 2:25 PM, Elieson said:

I warned the boss (Sunwoo) that I'd be inactive for a chunk of this game, and specifically, it was about early game.

I'm able to focus on the game starting today. Reading and post up before long.

Perhaps the warning/notion was not conveyed early on, because we were alerted to Bluedoom's inactivity for ED1, not yours by Sunwoo. So that would've been good to know about beforehand, so we would anticipate 2 slots being absent for at least a portion of the phase, not 1. 
Looking forward to the posts incoming (hopefully).

My vote is staying on Aster, because at this point, from everything I've seen above, nothing has changed, and this is bad. "NEWER PLAYER" doesn't excuse the lacks of attention to the game, any attempts at actual thoughts/reads at this point (FE Fan has put forth more in the fraction of posts thus far, though there are plenty of questions still wanting to be answered with the notions). I need to hear more before I'm willing to look elsewhere, though regarding consolidation options for end of D1:

Players off the Consideration (No touchie whatsoever from my PoV)

Myself

Shinori (Still remains to be singlehandedly pushing the D1 progression the hardest, when it would have been easy to coast this game with how inactive the other players have been. While scum CAN do this to emulate scum hunting, I don't anticipate scum!Shinori to be pushing this hard, unless he's doing it to decimate morale of town by the end of the game. As of right now, he has my vote of the towniest read atm for me.) Would not lynch him under any circumstance.

Elieson - Inactive/not Posted yet, and enough players have posted by this point to where I'd rather settle/consolidate on someone who has posts/cases at this time for associative reads. Pass for today (unless posts change massively by end of D1 that drive my consideration completely away from townside), and would not lynch.

Players more Nullside and lower tier of consolidations

Bluedoom: Was until recently inactive/not posting (so was on the same tier as Elieson until recent), so more leeway atm than others who have been present since ED1. Has been decent in responsiveness to questions, and at least was giving thoughts out the gate in initial posts, which I'm OK with. I want to hear more about the other players (I got some form of idea of Shinori read, had questions about me, and then notions of Jamie- want to hear about other thoughts from rest of the players outside of us 3), but otherwise due to later start date + reasonable vibes so far, probably would not really consider for today.

Ichigo: While they haven't been as active/posting as Shinori, their slot in general hasn't read terribly to me for the majority of the day phase. If possible, I would like more updated reads/notions from their slot on the rest of the players today, but I'm not currently wanting to consider this slot for today either. 

Fire Emblem Fan: For a first timer this game, I'm actually impressed in the sense of I have a feel of genuine attempts to at least try and obtain reads/vibes from other players from the posts that I've read so far. I would like to see more (in terms of answers/replies to the questions noted above). With that in mind, I would probably not consolidate their slot either today.

Players Likely to be the Option for today/that I would be OK with:

DF:  I WILL state immediately that DF is currently hovering/at the top of this list close to tumbling into the list above of no-consolidation. The reason why is that, first impressions weren't great, and currently their reads are also still not quite where I feel comfortable with. HOWEVER, they do seem to be responding more in this game than the last to questions and notions, which is a + in my books, and are attempting to clarify some form of reads in later posts. This alongside with newbie aspects, is understandable, but I would feel better about the slot if more can be given, and I can get more clear reads from them of where the players stand atm.

Jamie: This was a slot that was similar in vibes to me as Ichigo early on, because both seemed to be responding/pinging back and forth with others like Shinori, in what seemed like good general discussion/activity. However, when it came to re-reading the thread/post history of Jamie's slot:
1. Posted early on that they assumed DF seemed townie (noting it against Shinori's notion/vibe read).

2. Asked Aster thoughts on reads (which none was given).
3. Commented on NAI about Shinori's role claim.

4. Statistics commentary (about people being X likely to role scum/town).

5. Vote on Ichigo with a notion that they were coasting/not truly contributing to the thread (and potentially vote sitting on an inactive slot?)

6. Then goes onto Vote FEF when they voted him, stating the vote is not good (which I agree with).

The rest of the posts thereafter seem to fall flat for me, and the problem for me arises: Jamie has second place in raw amounts of posts, yet, outside of DF townread vibes (later post lists DF as TOP townread for them?) and then voting FEF = I have zero idea where they stand on ANYONE else in the game. The fact that they stand on FEF for their current scum case/read yet have nothing else to say from any of the others (outside of DF) that have been posting/present since ED1 confuses me, because I feel like there should be some form of town/scum reads from at least one other person so far? (I don't recall reading about anyone else even when re-reading their actual posting history for this game.) 

It's a weird spin of "Better than Aster" (in terms of Aster having post count but basically no casing?) in terms of not as scummy, but in all other aspects, it feels off that there's not a whole lot of reads/scumhunting impression I'm getting from the slot, despite Jamie now being #2 overall in posts. I also don't understand the DF hard townread either, and the lack of any casing on anyone else gives it a very tunneled casing at this point on FEF. 

This slot is #2 under Aster in Priority atm, and is one I would consolidate willingly at this point.

Aster: I'm pretty sure the first part of this post (along with previous posts + my vote residing on this slot) speaks for itself- I don't feel the need to beat a dead horse here. Top consideration for today's lynch, and will only shift willingly to Jamie if necessary for today's lynch. People will have to sell me on DF, not really wanting to lynch anyone else today.

 

On 9/9/2024 at 10:53 PM, Eurykins said:

I'm not interested in Ichigo lynch today - he's been fine in my books for the most part on vibe checks, and the main trio of concerns (Aster, DF, and Jamie) are bigger fish and far more worth digging into imo.

FEF I'm willing to overlook as well at least for today, but would be more confident atm with Ichigo vibes than FEF currently.

On 9/9/2024 at 10:47 PM, Bluedoom said:

I think the main thing is jamie claiming watcher means that its possible for shino to survive a night if he watches him, although if jamie is scum that's possibly not the case, but we'd be able to figure him out through lies anyway

Even if he lives tonight, do you think he would realistically watch Shinori as town!watcher, or would he assume that Shinori is likely to be protected, and thus aim elsewhere instead? What do we do if Jamie lives, yet doesn't opt to watch Shinori N1?

 

9 hours ago, Eurykins said:

I think, if scum was going to hammer for mislynch, they would have done so already, no? Also no lynching would probably harm us more than doing a lynch today, so should keep the votes at 3 atm.

##Vote: @Ichigo to ensure we have enough votes to lynch.

These quotes stuck out to me.

Throughout Eury's ISO side, they nulltown Ichigo and end up defending them at every turn, then jump on the wagon early without adjusting their actual reasoning. The vote doesn't fit their "not interested in Ichigo today" at the beginning of the phase.

TL;DR Eury is scum.

[Makaze]

Summary:

Jamie is pretty much cleared by Ichigo interactions.

Shinori is too. Less sure about this one, but it's looking very good for them.

Eury and FEF look very bad.

Bluedoom interactions are null but look somewhat better for Bluedoom; it does seem like they forgot Bluedoom existed a lot of the time, versus avoiding them. It would be really gutsy to WIFOM in the legacy like that, so gonna consider that NAI.

POE:
1. Eurykins
2. FEF
3. Bluedoom

[Sunwoo]

Phase end will be pushed back to 8:30 PM PST.