The Mafia to End all Mafias - GAME OVER

[Ichigo]

7 hours ago, JamieIsBored said:

It comes from a towny mindset but it’s not exactly unfakeable if you know what I mean? Trying to promote discussion around a player and see who does and doesn’t vote with him is a good way to gather intel and can give good interaction data later on in the game. But it’s also not that hard to do for any alignment, it’s just chucking a vote on there and @ ing to get people to vote with you.

So good sentiment but not alignment defining. 

And yet you are voting me due to it

[Ichigo]

Eurykins you asked me about DefyingFate. I don't know. What I noticed was that they said something that doesn't seem to have happened (defending Shinori). I asked them about it and I still don't think it happened but they were able to explain what they meant.

[Eurykins]

2 hours ago, Bluedoom said:

I think thinking about it more my problem with Eury might just be how she's handling reading Shinori, like she doesn't want to commit to a read for some reason. Was going to say the Aster read was bad but I can see the worldview where she defaults to the Aster vote as town and it is doing something, given that 1/3rd of us hadn't posted at that time.

Shinori seems fine tbh, no problems at all with him, and I'm p null on Ichigo atm.

IDK what you mean by that. I even stated in the end of the post before that Shinori is, effectively at this point my strongest townread at this point? How is this "not committing to a read" when it comes to pointing out the NAI actions he's had with the anti-town role claim + Ichigo actions? I don't know how much more of a read you expect me to have on a slot (one way or the other) than what was posted below? 

9 hours ago, Eurykins said:

Shinori once again has dwarfed the rest of the playerbase in terms of raw posts to the thread, which is probably the biggest progressive push in this thread for D1 to get out of RVS. His Anti-town role claim is odd (given that roles like Miller would want to claim the actual role outright, as noted earlier) due to the lack of details with it, and in the manner he did so does not give me specific town/scum sided intentions. Personally I assume it was meant to pump life into the game and catch other player's attentions, so it does little to nothing for my read on him. Ichigo vote call also struck similar vibes. I do not disagree with his notions/vote and posts about DF either, so I had no issues with it. I do want to hear more opinions on the other slots though, and his thoughts of what the above actions garnered so far in terms of reactions. 
But at this time, I would probably put him fairly high, if not the highest in terms of most likely town read for me, if simply due to the progression on levels no one else has met as of yet.

Also, regarding other notion:

2 hours ago, Bluedoom said:

I think with eury its a)I was so wrong about her in multiball and her posts resemble that, and b) I think the thing that made me go ??? was the talk about shinori's role...crumb? where it was a few paragraphs that ended up with the conclusion that it could go either way and it was NAI because...that isn't very helpful to finding scum?

The first part kinda makes zero sense for several reasons:

1. Completely different game, unless you're assuming something is being dredged up. In which case, why would I emulate a game in which I was flipped as SCUM in a new game right after? If this is purely a meta-based thing, then I suppose that's one thing, but voicing the last game directly seems to be an odd reference to use.
2. YOU WERE SCUM LAST GAME- had you lived/been active to converse with Cam (I recalled a lower level of at least in-thread activity by the end of D1), who had connections with my former scum buddy Aster, you would've also known that I was scum as well lol. So whether you were actively actually reading me as townside or not that game comes off very odd to me, because there was active communication between both scum teams members and you had full means to know that I was NOT in fact townside. 

Also, a lot of people were sheeping reads on me based on META, which is arguably from YEARS ago. So that could be the fault of people assuming reads purely based on habits/metas that may or may not be even accurate at this point. (For me personally, wall posts generally occur because I work for most of the daytime hours during the week, so I generally play the catchup game of multiple pages of posts, so it feels more effective to make one big post and sort thru what I missed, vs. spam posting to catch up. The latter feels more obnoxious to do, so I generally don't do it. There's not really much else to it, all in all, and comes down to personal preference in posting styles.
 

Next, regarding the role crumb, Shinori directly asked me and I did my best to explain my thoughts on it, during a time of lower general activity in general. I never once stated that his claim being NAI is or ever will be effective scum hunting at all, but I think responding to questions prompted from other players speaks better than ignoring inquiries stated. (But I did clearly ask Shinori himself later of what he thought he procured from posts from everyone else in terms of reactions to what he said and did, so in that aspect, I did attempt to see past what he said to the WHY (intentions) behind the notions to see what others considered of the situation, which led to things like DF replies and such happening.) Would it have been any better had I ignored his questions?  I'm finding a hard time trying to decipher what form of scum intent you were concerned about my post in the matter, especially given that D1 activity was also not churning much at all at the time it was posted?

[DefyingFates]

@Eurykins: I think I explained my thoughts on Shinori in my earlier posts, so here's my take on what's happened so far, for what that's worth.

Page 1

I can't see anything important here. Shinori and Ichigo were chatting for the most part and while the former voted for the latter it was obviously just an RVS thing. They may have also been fishing for any mafia who'd immediately take the bait but that didn't happen. Then they gave Aster a pep talk and that was it.

Page 2

More of the same from Shinori as well as admitting they have an anti-town role. You saw me go back and forth on that but unless they're playing a really long con now I think they're just warning town that they're a Veteran or something. I made my first "real" post and you answered my question about Aster with essentially "it's RVS". (For the record I misremembered how the last game played out.)

Page 3

You and Ichigo both admitted you were thrown by Shinori's claims as well. I tried to rationalize them then Shinori voted for me. Jamie started posting but I couldn't get any information out of those. However in the second half of the page he tried to coach Aster and I, which I appreciate. Of course since we aren't really townsfolk rooting out a mafia this could just be him helping out of a spirit of good fun and not because he's helping his fellow townmates.

Page 4

The first half of this page was for discussion about the absentees and also me being suspicious. Again. But I brought that on myself this time too by going back and forth on Shinori (last time was because I voted randomly then forgot to check the thread for day). Marth showed up and meta-read Jamie as scum, which is the first real call to action so far (apart from everyone speculating about me).

---

Right now I think my best bet is to take Shinori's advice and try "town hunting" instead of looking for scum behavior. So right now I think Aster is town given her reluctance to lynch first, ask questions later (as well as being a newcomer) and despite my prior actions Shinori because I don't think a mafia member would draw attention to themself like that. Does that fit anyone else's deductions so far?

[Shinori]

I really want to drive this into yours and Aster's head.

Please get rid of the mentality that 'not lynching' is good.

I think it's fine to use this as a way to generate reads but it's not something you want to form a habit of in playing Forum mafia.  Games like Town of salem and what not are different than this.

 

There are some times where Voting to sleep/no lynch is good and useful, but it's generally NOT good.  I think it's fine to read into it at the moment as maybe a way to read into alignment but this is something I really want to push if you guys choose to play more.  And I love playing mafia and want you all to have fun playing this game.  Which is why I recommended possibly trying to read some other games just to see how some people may play the game.

 

THAT BEING SAID - I do like that you are starting to generate reads and that is good.  This doesn't mean I town read you though.

[Eurykins]

3 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

@Eurykins: I think I explained my thoughts on Shinori in my earlier posts, so here's my take on what's happened so far, for what that's worth.

Page 1

I can't see anything important here. Shinori and Ichigo were chatting for the most part and while the former voted for the latter it was obviously just an RVS thing. They may have also been fishing for any mafia who'd immediately take the bait but that didn't happen. Then they gave Aster a pep talk and that was it.

Page 2

More of the same from Shinori as well as admitting they have an anti-town role. You saw me go back and forth on that but unless they're playing a really long con now I think they're just warning town that they're a Veteran or something. I made my first "real" post and you answered my question about Aster with essentially "it's RVS". (For the record I misremembered how the last game played out.)

Page 3

You and Ichigo both admitted you were thrown by Shinori's claims as well. I tried to rationalize them then Shinori voted for me. Jamie started posting but I couldn't get any information out of those. However in the second half of the page he tried to coach Aster and I, which I appreciate. Of course since we aren't really townsfolk rooting out a mafia this could just be him helping out of a spirit of good fun and not because he's helping his fellow townmates.

Page 4

The first half of this page was for discussion about the absentees and also me being suspicious. Again. But I brought that on myself this time too by going back and forth on Shinori (last time was because I voted randomly then forgot to check the thread for day). Marth showed up and meta-read Jamie as scum, which is the first real call to action so far (apart from everyone speculating about me).

---

Right now I think my best bet is to take Shinori's advice and try "town hunting" instead of looking for scum behavior. So right now I think Aster is town given her reluctance to lynch first, ask questions later (as well as being a newcomer) and despite my prior actions Shinori because I don't think a mafia member would draw attention to themself like that. Does that fit anyone else's deductions so far?

....Ummm.... something reads really really off to me about the bolded/underlined. Was this an unintentional scum slip, or am I heavily misreading/misunderstanding what was said?
 

"Of course since we (DF + Aster? Last 2 people noted in the post as being coached by Jamie) aren't really townsfolk rooting out a mafia...." = Are you stating that you're both scum?

*Shinori's advice, for the record, isn't bad if you're having trouble with scum hunting, as at least figuring out where other players stand, town or scum side, is important to base cases and votes with. But.... the above kinda threw those notions in the wind just now, and IDK how to think of it.

[Bluedoom]

27 minutes ago, Eurykins said:

IDK what you mean by that. I even stated in the end of the post before that Shinori is, effectively at this point my strongest townread at this point? How is this "not committing to a read" when it comes to pointing out the NAI actions he's had with the anti-town role claim + Ichigo actions? I don't know how much more of a read you expect me to have on a slot (one way or the other) than what was posted below? 

Also, regarding other notion:

The first part kinda makes zero sense for several reasons:

1. Completely different game, unless you're assuming something is being dredged up. In which case, why would I emulate a game in which I was flipped as SCUM in a new game right after? If this is purely a meta-based thing, then I suppose that's one thing, but voicing the last game directly seems to be an odd reference to use.
2. YOU WERE SCUM LAST GAME- had you lived/been active to converse with Cam (I recalled a lower level of at least in-thread activity by the end of D1), who had connections with my former scum buddy Aster, you would've also known that I was scum as well lol. So whether you were actively actually reading me as townside or not that game comes off very odd to me, because there was active communication between both scum teams members and you had full means to know that I was NOT in fact townside. 

Also, a lot of people were sheeping reads on me based on META, which is arguably from YEARS ago. So that could be the fault of people assuming reads purely based on habits/metas that may or may not be even accurate at this point. (For me personally, wall posts generally occur because I work for most of the daytime hours during the week, so I generally play the catchup game of multiple pages of posts, so it feels more effective to make one big post and sort thru what I missed, vs. spam posting to catch up. The latter feels more obnoxious to do, so I generally don't do it. There's not really much else to it, all in all, and comes down to personal preference in posting styles.
 

Next, regarding the role crumb, Shinori directly asked me and I did my best to explain my thoughts on it, during a time of lower general activity in general. I never once stated that his claim being NAI is or ever will be effective scum hunting at all, but I think responding to questions prompted from other players speaks better than ignoring inquiries stated. (But I did clearly ask Shinori himself later of what he thought he procured from posts from everyone else in terms of reactions to what he said and did, so in that aspect, I did attempt to see past what he said to the WHY (intentions) behind the notions to see what others considered of the situation, which led to things like DF replies and such happening.) Would it have been any better had I ignored his questions?  I'm finding a hard time trying to decipher what form of scum intent you were concerned about my post in the matter, especially given that D1 activity was also not churning much at all at the time it was posted?

I'll concede the first point, I misread that and its only when you point it now that I realise it, I do think you're committing to a townread on Shinori.

 

Last game I was scum yeah, I tr'd you because cam and I barely had any communication(so I did not know your alignment), and I think any meta pointers I had on you just don't hold, so if I get a sense that you're posting a lot but it doesn't feel like its leading to a conclusion I'm more likely to think that's maf-sided behaviour. 

 

As for the scum intent behind talking about shino's role, well usually mafia want to appear to solve without solving, so posting a few paragraphs about something that ultimately leads to a conclusion of it being NAI is within range. I mean, I get that its you(and its why I'm not voting you partly) and you're a more wordy person, but I don't trust my meta judgement exactly.

 

[Bluedoom]

@DefyingFates I'd like to clarify that I'm not meta reading jamie as scum, I've barely played with the guy to know what he's like as town or scum, but I think he's playing in a way that I expect most scum to play early on.

[JamieIsBored]

1 hour ago, Ichigo said:

And yet you are voting me due to it

Initially I was yes, but I waited and waited to get something from you and nothing came. This is with you being the joint-second top poster as well. You have “light town” on Shinori and Aster which is quite uncommital imo. You also haven’t even thrown a vote down. FmPOV you also aren’t really doing much to accelerate the game at all. The early game wagon on you to get people talking (which didn’t even happen lmao) is the thing that pushed the game forward the most involving your slot and you weren’t even a driving force behind it. I also have a quote here which surmises what I feel about you.

Quote

Basically what Shinori is doing but less extra.

 

@Bluedoom I didn’t want to pressure my scum read too early because I wanted to see Ichigo’s natural interactions with the inactives (which my current theory is it is someone inactive+ Ichigo). Currently thinking Ichigo’s day will end with “Oh darn! I don’t have any scum reads, guess I’ll vote inactive” and then they’ll be the only one on their teammate for town points.

[Ichigo]

What. Where did I do that?

[JamieIsBored]

If you’re talking about the paragraph I addressed to Marth, that hasn’t happened yet it’s what I thought you would’ve done before I outed my read against you. 

[Ichigo]

Your guess is wrong. I don't like to vote for inactive players on day 1, I think there are almost always active players who are mafia and I don't like to fall into the habit of voting for the least active players which has the least resistance.

How am I supposed to have natural interactions with players who haven't posted yet?

I'm trying to figure out if you actually believe what you wrote because you seem to have based it off of nothing.

[JamieIsBored]

Gonna be inactive for a couple hours, going for lunch for my dads birthday. 
 

@Aster @DefyingFates What do you both think of the two cases brought up, myself and Ichigo?

[Ichigo]

1 hour ago, DefyingFates said:

So right now I think Aster is town given her reluctance to lynch first, ask questions later (as well as being a newcomer)

I don't think you are using good reasoning here. I don't see why a reluctance to eliminate is towny. And being a newcomer doesn't mean anything for their alignment.

[JamieIsBored]

1 minute ago, Ichigo said:

How am I supposed to have natural interactions with players who haven't posted yet?

It’s not that, I don’t know your meta and you might pick up steam later, but you seem kinda low-motivated to keep the thread alive. With you not seeming to want to push the thread forward, it made me think about natural teammates for you and I felt that it would fit with your teammate being inactive. If the thread doesn’t go anywhere that’s where people look for lynches. And that’s where you could get your town points.

Tinfoil, but I have more reasoning behind it than my other ones atm 

[Ichigo]

I'm not being low content as a strategy I'm just busy and lazy and waiting for something to happen for me to comment on

[Fire Emblem Fan]

(I am so sorry I got unexpectedly pulled away from the internet on Friday, but here now and trying to catch up!)

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Okay, after reading through a lot and catching up, a lot of it seemed kind of chaotic. I'm not quite sure what to make of everything that was said, or what to make of who said what. Several things seemed based on past experiences in past games, so I'm not sure I can judge fairly since I wasn't part of those and this is my first time.

That said, I'm picking up that not voting could actually be harmful to myself and/or my alignment, even though it's so early in the game. So, I kinda feel like I should vote for someone, based on what more experienced players have said?

Based loosely on what I've read and observed here and what I'm gleaming some of y'all's interactions and banter with each other is...

##Vote: @JamieIsBored

[JamieIsBored]

56 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Based loosely on what I've read and observed here and what I'm gleaming some of y'all's interactions and banter with each other is...

##Vote: @JamieIsBored

Why are you voting for me? 

[JamieIsBored]

##Unvote
##Vote: @Fire Emblem Fan

I’m not a fan of that vote at all, feels incredibly opportunistic. 

[DefyingFates]

6 hours ago, Shinori said:

I really want to drive this into yours and Aster's head.

Please get rid of the mentality that 'not lynching' is good.

I wasn't trying to do that this time, sorry if that's how it came off. I wanted to get an idea of who I could trust and go from there.

6 hours ago, Eurykins said:

....Ummm.... something reads really really off to me about the bolded/underlined. Was this an unintentional scum slip, or am I heavily misreading/misunderstanding what was said?
 

"Of course since we (DF + Aster? Last 2 people noted in the post as being coached by Jamie) aren't really townsfolk rooting out a mafia...." = Are you stating that you're both scum?

I meant what I said: Jamie coached Aster and I, which I appreciate, but that doesn't mean he's town. After all, if he was scum and he accidentally taught us something that helped us out him, the worst that happens is he loses this game and has to sit out until the next one.

6 hours ago, Bluedoom said:

I'd like to clarify that I'm not meta reading jamie as scum, I've barely played with the guy to know what he's like as town or scum, but I think he's playing in a way that I expect most scum to play early on.

Thanks. Could you break down a bit further what he's doing that strikes you as scummy, just his passivity so far?

2 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Based loosely on what I've read and observed here and what I'm gleaming some of y'all's interactions and banter with each other is...

I'd like to know your reasoning for voting for Jamie as well.

6 hours ago, JamieIsBored said:

What do you both think of the two cases brought up, myself and Ichigo?

The way I see it, both cases are variations of "you haven't been very active, thus you're trying to fly under the radar"?

6 hours ago, Ichigo said:

I don't think you are using good reasoning here. I don't see why a reluctance to eliminate is towny. And being a newcomer doesn't mean anything for their alignment.

I feel bad bringing this up, but Aster felt like a non-confrontational person in our last game. That gives me something to relate to though: "not wanting to lynch potential innocents" was something I had trouble with last time as well.

[DefyingFates]

@Fire Emblem Fan, how much mafia have you played before?

[Fire Emblem Fan]

1 hour ago, JamieIsBored said:

Why are you voting for me? 

 

10 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

I'd like to know your reasoning for voting for Jamie as well.

As I said, based on what's been said and the advice given, I feel like I have to vote, otherwise I'm hurting myself and my alignment. And based on the last few pages, the reading I'm getting is:

-Shinori is playing mind-games in a way that makes me feel like they want people to think they might be mafia but really aren't.

-Aster is kind of like me and is still trying to figure out the game.

-Ichigo is being pretty truthful, feels like.

-Eury is actually helping and giving advice, which I feel like maybe wouldn't happen if they were mafia.

-Bluedoom was absent and it didn't feel fair to judge someone who gave prior notice to an absence.

-Obviously I can't vote for myself.

That left me with three mystery persons, and of the three I felt like one of the two who was more under the radar was the correct choice, because being under the radar feels like a strategy that could be pretty popular.

9 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

@Fire Emblem Fan, how much mafia have you played before?

Absolutely none.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Kind of immediately getting the feeling I've misread the game entirely, especially with a counter-vote that feels like it was done just to be hostile and reactionary. I guess I'm not understanding something, I dunno.

[DefyingFates]

1 minute ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Ichigo is being pretty truthful, feels like.

What makes you say this?

1 minute ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Eury is actually helping and giving advice, which I feel like maybe wouldn't happen if they were mafia.

They did this last game too and were mafia, so... yeah. Unfortunately how helpful someone is isn't a metric we can use.

Apart from you and Blue who haven't been around enough, the only ones I don't have a proper read on are Ichigo, Eury and Jamie (and Elieson but they still haven't posted yet). So if I were to vote it'd probably be one of them. Did Elie tell anyone they'd be busy today or yesterday?