The Mafia to End all Mafias - GAME OVER

[Shinori]

4 minutes ago, Aster said:

 

I don't know. I think it's normal because this is what you're supposed to do Day 1. Not to mention I don't know how she plays as town to contrast with wolf.

For the options you mentioned, I personally have the gut feeling they're both town and just accusing each other based on vibes. I think I'm most apprehensive of Jamie of the two for getting defensive so quickly but like that's the pot calling the kettle on my end.

Being able to potentially spot something and thinking that it might be town fighting another town IS good and important.  That's something that could help with reads.  Because right here in this post you said:

Gut feeling jamie and FE Fan are both town accusing each other.

This doesn't mean you are HARD town reading them, but it could be a good START for you.  You could town LEAN them and then look at the rest of the game from there.  How does Jamie and FE fan being a little townier affect your reads on other people potentially?

 

I'm just gonna spout of other random ideas that might help you get started.

You could make take a piece of paper or a spread sheet or somewhere you can keep notes at like your role pm and just right down all the players and give them a base score of 10. like the following - I removed you from this list because you obviously wouldn't do this for yourself, you know your own alignment.

1. DefyingFates - 10
2. Fire Emblem Fan - 10
3. Bluedoom - 10
4. Shinori - 10
5. JamieIsBored - 10
6. Ichigo - 10
7. Elieson - 10
8. Eurykins -10

 

Then go through the game and any time any post makes you feel TOWNIE about someone, like lets say you read one of my posts and you felt GOOD about it, you give me a point.

Vice-versa any time you read a post and it makes you feel WORSE about the slot, like maybe they could be a wolf, take away a point.  Then see where your points overall end up and that might help you get a small idea about some of your reads.

 

This is probably not the BEST idea but I'm just stating stuff that might help you get started with generating other reads for YOURSELF.

[Shinori]

5 minutes ago, Aster said:

I understand and I'm sorry. I just didn't really know how to respond to being accused with a lengthy chunk of a message. Pressure is something I don't do well under. Again I'm fine if I'm lynched day one if it helps the game roll along but I'm sorry for self-voting.

Look I'm gonna defend you, at the moment you're one of my strongest town reads.

 

I also want to help FE fan and DF improve and maybe get a bit more hang of this game in case you all want to play with us more in the future. so my above post is probably a good thing for @DefyingFates and @Fire Emblem Fan to check out as well if either of you are having more problems generating reads for YOURSELVES.

[Eurykins]

6 minutes ago, Aster said:

I understand and I'm sorry. I just didn't really know how to respond to being accused with a lengthy chunk of a message. Pressure is something I don't do well under. Again I'm fine if I'm lynched day one if it helps the game roll along but I'm sorry for self-voting.

Again, it's fine. I just wanted you to know that the questions aren't just there to grill you, to make you feel like you're under fire 24/7 for no reason.

Also, we townside gain nothing if you got lynched with saying little to no reads, because you're not giving us anything to go off of.

IE. If you buddied someone hard (in the event that you were scum and inadvertently were protecting/casing someone as town for little to no reason), and one of you two flipped scum, that's something we could garner for a potential associative read, for example. Because that would provide us impactful information on another player in the game (in this case it wouldn't favor scumside if you were scum, but you get what I'm saying.)

In the same basket, as with what Shinori posted above- it can show interactions that indicate who may/may not be pairs together as scum based how cases/posts have been during the day phase. 

Simple and basic interactions, reads and such, can point to a lot more than what you may expect. It's why you shouldn't hesitate to just go with your gut reads/vibes, and if someone/something is pinging you (good or bad), just say it and do your best to justify your thoughts, so we know where you're coming from. 
*Players with experience like Shinori can piece together interactions/associations a lot better than newbies can in most cases, but that just means the more you do, even if it's only a little bit = actually measures up to a LOT of help for us to work with as a whole. This is GOOD to think about, because even "weaker" reads can still be good to note in the long run. It's not just what you can find out, but what information/things you can spot that can also help us realize things.

[Aster]

2 minutes ago, Shinori said:

I'm just gonna spout of other random ideas that might help you get started.

You could make take a piece of paper or a spread sheet or somewhere you can keep notes at like your role pm and just right down all the players and give them a base score of 10. like the following - I removed you from this list because you obviously wouldn't do this for yourself, you know your own alignment.

1. DefyingFates - 10
2. Fire Emblem Fan - 10
3. Bluedoom - 10
4. Shinori - 10
5. JamieIsBored - 10
6. Ichigo - 10
7. Elieson - 10
8. Eurykins -10

That's a good idea, thanks!

 

3 minutes ago, Shinori said:

This doesn't mean you are HARD town reading them, but it could be a good START for you.  You could town LEAN them and then look at the rest of the game from there.  How does Jamie and FE fan being a little townier affect your reads on other people potentially?

Like I would say overall I'm reading null on everyone. Even you. I'm thankful for your help but of course cautious because that doesn't mean you're necessarily town, especially if you can subtly point me to vote for someone. Not sure if you'd do that, but still cautious in case you start subtly implicating people. That said, thanks, I'm sorry for all the trouble.

[Shinori]

7 minutes ago, Aster said:

That's a good idea, thanks!

If you do this, remember to try to make note of what you made you feel that way.  If it was gut, someone else that stood out to you, ANYTHING.  It's perfectly fine to be wrong.

[Ichigo]

  

1 hour ago, Eurykins said:

18 hours ago, Ichigo said:

At the start of the game I didn't know if Shinori was saying they had a read on me or if they were trying to get an opinion out of Aster. It seems that it was trying to get an opinion out of Aster so I don't have an opinion for the call to action on me (And they did ask about whether we should push the newbies earlier and I said no).

Right now I am lightly townreading Shinori. I think I'm lightly townread Aster as well.

Understandable coming with the bolded statement.
However, what is causing you to townread Shinori at this time, and Aster's slot as well? What has impressed you with the slots to garner the more positive feelings? And where does that leave everyone else?

Vibes kinda.

 

I like that Shinori is pushing things forward. For Aster I vaguely feel like they wouldn't make their opening posts if they were mafia here so that puts them as a lean town for me.

Should I be townreading you posting a huge wall of text? I kind of want to.

 

5 hours ago, Eurykins said:

22 hours ago, Ichigo said:

Eurykins you asked me about DefyingFate. I don't know. What I noticed was that they said something that doesn't seem to have happened (defending Shinori). I asked them about it and I still don't think it happened but they were able to explain what they meant.

Indeed. Does their explanation appease your concerns, or is there anything else from DF at this point that is worth noting?

Their explanation shows me how they could be viewing things to make what they said make sense. So I'm not jumping at them

[Ichigo]

Actually. Seeing Aster vote for themself makes me a bit more hesitant to put them as town as it does feel they could be putting on a performance to get town reads.

[Shinori]

If it is I kinda just wanna deal with it later.  Like not a today type of thing.

 

Eury wall posts are NAI.  She does it as either alignment.

[Ichigo]

👀

[Sunwoo]

Just so you guys know, I'll be going to bed within the hour and I won't be back online for about 14ish hours. I'll try to get some votals up before I go to bed but I'll otherwise be away until I get back from work.

If you have any questions, concerns, or general thoughts you want me to reply to let them be known sooner than later.

[Bluedoom]

6 hours ago, Eurykins said:

@Shinori I'm workin' on it, posts do take a bit of time for me, as you probably know by now lol.

 

 

Bluedoom: Was until recently inactive/not posting (so was on the same tier as Elieson until recent), so more leeway atm than others who have been present since ED1. Has been decent in responsiveness to questions, and at least was giving thoughts out the gate in initial posts, which I'm OK with. I want to hear more about the other players (I got some form of idea of Shinori read, had questions about me, and then notions of Jamie- want to hear about other thoughts from rest of the players outside of us 3), but otherwise due to later start date + reasonable vibes so far, probably would not really consider for today.

 

I already did actually; I'm of the opinion that Aster is town here flailing, I already thought that her thinking that deciding to eliminate someone out of the game D1 was unfair was coming from a town mindset(because mafia don't care about how unfair it is, they just want to advance their wincon), but the self vote in the recent pages feel like a strong indicator for newb!town.

 

I've been flip flopping on DF, a lot of his posts feel very calculative but I can see them just as easily coming from a cautious, calculative townie.

The main change for me has been that I think Jamie/Ichigo might be an SvT, my confirmation bias says that Jamie is mafia, and that he's playing this game more diplomatically than the previous one, but ignoring that, I think Ichigo's argument with Jamie doesn't read like town in fighting to me at all, and if Jamie was town here it would make Ichigo look oddly defensive here.

[Bluedoom]

35 minutes ago, Shinori said:

If it is I kinda just wanna deal with it later.  Like not a today type of thing.

 

Eury wall posts are NAI.  She does it as either alignment.

Yeah I agree, wall posts from her are NAI. Learnt it the hard way last game.

How do you feel about Jamie vs Ichigo?

[Bluedoom]

Oh, I guess I forgot about Fire Emblem Fan. Hm. I dunno, I think the initial vote on Jamie rubbed me off the wrong way since it felt like FEF was being very sheepy and looking for some sort of consensus on who to vote when he made the vote. Nothing has struck me as bad post that but I do think that the initial post looked scummy.

[Bluedoom]

6 hours ago, Shinori said:

Okay like I'll state some stuff already right here from my personal opinion.  These are MY opinions, but tell me if you agree.

Jamie and FE fan ARE NOT wolves together.

Eury and Aster ARE NOT wolves together.

Jamie and Ichigo ARE PROBABLY NOT wolves together.

Most people would probably right: Shinori and DF ARE PROBABLY NOT wolves together.

This is based on interactions that are already happening in thread today on day 1.

questioning this in vacuum, can't eury just bus aster here? or would you say that Eury isn't a fan of D1 bussing?

I don't know if I agree with jamie/fef not being wolves together, I think its plausible for fef, being new to a scum game, to vote jamie off of TMI because he knows that he's not "wrong" so its easier to fake that.

 

I think you and DF not being wolves together makes sense, I can see you bussing your partner but I can't see DF behaving the way he's behaving as your buddy.

[Sunwoo]

Votals

Jamie (3): Bluedoom, FE Fan, Ichigo
Aster (1): Eurykins
FE Fan (1): Jamie

Not Voting (4): Aster, Shinori, Elieson, DefyingFates

D1 ends in approximately 19 hours. There will be no hammer on D1.

[DefyingFates]

7 hours ago, Shinori said:

You could make take a piece of paper or a spread sheet or somewhere you can keep notes at like your role pm and just right down all the players and give them a base score of 10. like the following - I removed you from this list because you obviously wouldn't do this for yourself, you know your own alignment

Thanks for this idea! It's basic but it's the sort of thing that might help me as well.

54 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Jamie (3): Bluedoom, FE Fan, Ichigo

I forgot @Bluedoom also voted for Jamie. If you're still around Marth, why was this and do you still stand by it?

I'll read over the last few pages shortly.

[DefyingFates]

Page 5

Ichigo called Jamie out for being a hypocrite and defended me (thanks!) Eury suggested Bluedoom was lying about not knowing how they play but he explained he didn't communicate much with his team last game. A big part of this page was Jamie saying Ichigo's lack of play despite posting so much was scum behavior and the latter arguing that they just don't like voting for inactives. FEFan came in and voted for Jamie, saying Ichigo seemed more reliable.

Page 6

Jamie shared their thoughts on the game so far and said Shinori, Aster and I felt more town-y while Ichigo and FEFan felt mafia-y. On top of his concerns about Ichigo he thought FEFan was jumping on a bandwagon to lynch him. Ichigo argued Jamie's case against them was based on hypotheticals which he admitted on Page 7, though remained suspicious.

Page 7

FEFan voted for Jamie again since they had a null read on him at the time and thought the vote for them was suspicious. FEFan also called out Shinori for the same reasons I did later on, but I think Shinori's counter makes sense (i.e. "why would I do something so obvious as mafia"). Ichigo voted for Jamie by calling attention to this:

Quote

It's suspicious to not vote, but if the vote is on them that's also suspicious. I don't think they ever talk about why voting for them in particular is opportunistic.

Eury posted a wall. Apart from coaching and asking questions they raised two points:

1. Ichigo is kinda coasting, but Eury had both pros and cons about this playstyle.

2. Aster, Jamie and I were their main scumreads, with Jamie having the most against him - namely that other than saying I was town and voting for FEFan he hadn't contributed anything.

Page 8

Shinori said I might be scum and also listed the various "feuds" that have happened so far today. Unless either of these pairs are playing long cons I think these are fair assessments (at least these are what I was thinking too):

Quote

 

Jamie and FE fan ARE NOT wolves together.
Eury and Aster ARE NOT wolves together.
Jamie and Ichigo ARE PROBABLY NOT wolves together.
Most people would probably write: Shinori and DF ARE PROBABLY NOT wolves together.

 

Page 9

Ichigo suspects Aster is scum while Bluedoom thinks the opposite and is mixed on me instead. He also suspects FEFan because of that first post.

Quote

my confirmation bias says that Jamie is mafia, and that he's playing this game more diplomatically than the previous one, but ignoring that, I think Ichigo's argument with Jamie doesn't read like town in fighting to me at all, and if Jamie was town here it would make Ichigo look oddly defensive here.

@Bluedoom How do you think this conversation would have gone if it was town infighting or Ichigo was mafia?

[DefyingFates]

P.S. I feel bad because Jamie's one of the people who's been giving me advice (NAI behavior or not) so I feel bad saying this, but he does seem the most suspicious of the group so far, given how many of you think he's mafia. But there's also FEFan defending Ichigo as soon as they started playing, which taking a step back like this could suggest they and Ichigo are a mafia pair.

In short, after going through the Jamie & Ichigo conversations again, I leaning towards Bluedoom's assessment that one of them is mafia and the other is town. If the latter turns out to be mafia then FEFan may be too. How does everyone else feel about that breakdown?

[Fire Emblem Fan]

11 hours ago, Eurykins said:

My personal issue with the Jamie vote is that there seemed to be little to no explanation to warrant the vote. You did state "Based loosely on what I've read and observed here..." --- What exactly did you read/observe that made you want to vote Jamie? Was it something that was said/done with a post or votes happening? Did someone else's case on Jamie make sense, or did something the slot do cause concern for you? With no thoughts put forth WITH the vote, I don't understand the WHY behind it, which makes the vote seem out of the blue and baseless?

Like I said before, I was given the impression that it would be very bad for myself and my alignment if I didn't put in a vote, so I thought I had to vote someone, especially since it was before we got an extension and I thought time was almost up.

You went over my second post where I talked about my initial thoughts on all the players at that point and what my mindset had been, to be honest I'm not quite sure what to add to it. Of all the players, I had narrowed my choices down to three, and of those three I felt that Jamie was the one who felt more "mafia," based loosely on the previous pages I had read (the brief thing with Ichigo, the statement (I think from Blue?) that Jamie wasn't really committing and just being kinda sly about it, etc.).

I will also fully admit that I was potentially reading things wrong, like I had said before things were starting to blur together for me a bit, and I did start to doubt myself there and thought I might have made a mistake.

I feel more confident about my vote now, though. I believe Jamie and others were justified in calling out my vote (and like I said, I even started doubting myself), but then it really felt like Jamie got tunnel-vision for me and was trying to deflect votes to save themselves. Which I suppose would be natural, true, but as others have pointed out, it's been combined with the knowledge that Jamie has been a little hypocritical, has been dealing with nothing but hypotheticals, and hasn't really done anything substantial other than get defensive at specifically me and given no actual assessment on anything. So, now, to me, it reads as suspicious, and I'm more confident in my vote.

11 hours ago, Eurykins said:

1. Shinori : Your considerations on his posts/actions thus far: Would anything that has been said/done so far make more sense coming from Scum!Shinori vs Town!Shinori? Is there any scum intentions behind his posts? Is your read on him implying you have more of a townread on him, or more of a null or scum read? Not sure where you stand with him atm.

2. Aster: Newbies unite, I get it. However, do you believe Aster has produced anything meaningful or attempted to provide any form of cases/reads that would make you comfortably view them as coming from townside? New-aspect aside, what read do you have on this slot at this time?

3. Ichigo: Truthful about what? Their thoughts/opinions/reads? Being honest is one thing, but is being straight with their responses enough to formulate a townread on their slot as a result? What does his slot seeming truthful do for you?

4. Eury (hey it's me!): Honestly, being willing to help newbies is NAI (non-alignment indicative) tbh. Shinori is a prime example of that- constantly voicing tips/notions/general ideas is something more experienced players of Mafia games will do from EITHER ALIGNMENT, so I would not use it to purely base reads upon any player slot, myself or otherwise. However, I would like to know more about what you think of my slot- has there been any questions or such for me that you want answered, or anything noteworthy in either direction?

5. Bluedoom: ED1 absence is understandable, since it was even announced by host (which I admittedly forgot about in one of my other posts), but any considerations since this slot has started to post? In any reads/votes so far?

1. Shinori: I was suspicious of them at first, for reasons I had stated before, but in the events since then I think I'm leaning more Town. I had initially thought mind-games were being played, but based on things said since then I think I was making a newbie mistake. I can't really dispute that the actions taken don't make sense if Shinori was Mafia. So, for now, I'm reading more Town.

2. Aster: I had been reading "you're new, like me, that's why you're posts are what they are." But now, I'm starting to wonder if the defeatist attitude is genuine or not, it almost feels like it's being played a little over-the-top, like it's being forced. I'm kind of in the middle for this one, I think I'm shifting to being suspicious.

3. Ichigo: I'll be honest, I'm not really sure what else to add here. I thought they looked truthful, but I guess that could be an inexperienced misread by me and maybe that's just a deceptive playstyle. Right now I'm kind of unsure what to read for Ichigo.

4. Eury (you!): I can't think of any questions or concerns at this specific point in time, although I will note that I am reading you as "neutral" at the moment. Most of what I've seen has been big posts like this, and too many people have told me that these kind of posts are not indicative of an alignment, so I currently don't have a leaning one way or the other for you.

5. Bluedoom: At first it was more neutral, but now I'm leaning a little more Town. Nothing has seemed suspicious or inconsistent to me in their posts thus far. Neutral-Town.

I hope that helps explain what I was thinking, and what I'm currently thinking.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

1 hour ago, DefyingFates said:

But there's also FEFan defending Ichigo as soon as they started playing, which taking a step back like this could suggest they and Ichigo are a mafia pair.

Hang on, I wasn't defending anyone. I only ever mentioned Ichigo when asked to give some reads on the players. There's a big difference between thinking someone was being truthful, initially, and defending someone. The only person I've really defended is myself, from Jamie, and given my thoughts on everyone else as they were at that moment in time.

[DefyingFates]

1 hour ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Hang on, I wasn't defending anyone. I only ever mentioned Ichigo when asked to give some reads on the players. There's a big difference between thinking someone was being truthful, initially, and defending someone. The only person I've really defended is myself, from Jamie, and given my thoughts on everyone else as they were at that moment in time.

Fair enough, my bad. Defending was too strong a word on my part, but you cast them in a favorable light compared to Jamie which is what I was getting at.

[Aster]

1 hour ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

I had been reading "you're new, like me, that's why you're posts are what they are." But now, I'm starting to wonder if the defeatist attitude is genuine or not, it almost feels like it's being played a little over-the-top, like it's being forced. I'm kind of in the middle for this one, I think I'm shifting to being suspicious.

Nah I'm just emo like that. I'm sorry for the fuss.

[JamieIsBored]

Good afternoon, apologies for my absence I had my first day at college today. Will be reading up soon. 
 

 

[JamieIsBored]

17 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

I don't buy any of the reasons Jamie has stated for it, some contradicting statements that feel off to me.

For my vote on you? 

You came outta nowhere to just vote me when I already pressure being placed on me, that’s scummy as hell. There’s nothing contradictory about that. 

15 hours ago, Ichigo said:

I don't think they ever talk about why voting for them in particular is opportunistic.

See above. 

14 hours ago, Eurykins said:

Issue with "giving them an hour" though is that people have a wide variety of timezones/availability in general.

Eh fair enough. I went out and had lunch during that time and when I got back and saw it hadn’t been answered I just popped the vote to try and get more out of them.

14 hours ago, Eurykins said:

Who concerns you the most in those who have voted you thus far? Worst to most reasonable casing of votes regarding those on the wagon? 

Marth doesn’t concern me at all, that was valid reasoning. Then Ichigo’s is better than both FE Fan’s first and second vote. 
 

Worst:

FEFan (Initially just jumping on and then parroting what everyone else has said in thread about my to justify his next vote. Hypocritical was wild to see considering Ichigo literally said it like the post before)

Ichigo (Prolly a bit of OMGUS there and wanting to get a lynch today.

Marth (Yes I had only given one town read at the point of him voting me. Valid points)

Best

14 hours ago, Eurykins said:

I also don't understand the DF hard townread either, and the lack of any casing on anyone else gives it a very tunneled casing at this point on FEF. 

DF hard townread is because I like both the vibes and general thread attitude. Seems like he’s genuinely trying to improve from last game and is actually working towards scumhunting and doing thread analysis. 
 

I still have my views on FEF and it’s all I get asked about and it has been general thread topic for the last two pages so I haven’t gotten much more info than I already had for new cases. The Ichigo one is still one I also firmly believe in and wouldn’t be surprised if the pairing was exactly FEF + Ichigo.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

1 hour ago, DefyingFates said:

Fair enough, my bad. Defending was too strong a word on my part, but you cast them in a favorable light compared to Jamie which is what I was getting at.

I also said Eury seemed to be helpful and friendly, in the same post I said Ichigo seemed genuine. And I've only now just said in my previous post that Bluedoom didn't seem suspicious to me. I've put multiple other players in better light than Jamie. It feels like you're drawing this connection between Ichigo and myself and it feels very arbitrary.