OMG it's a tier list

[nflchamp]

Oh, and for those that are missing smash-arguments or the old Interceptor v smash wars: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/932999-fire-emblem-radiant-dawn/55323226/610266915

I'm surprised Interceptor is even posting since I'd thought he'd quit Gamefaqs. But anyway, from that post on.

This one is Aran v Neph with classic 2008/early 2009 smash against 2010 Interceptor this time. I'm serious, smash hasn't changed one bit of his argument in 2 years. You could probably go find an old thread about Aran v Neph and you'd see about the same arguments coming from smash. Only Interceptor has grown and learned.

Yeah, I kind of directed him. Didn't think he'd actually post.

[Interceptor]

I didn't think that I'd post either, but apparently I can't resist a good "KICK ME" sign. It's a good thing that I've debated those characters for so long that the arguments just flow out like water, it takes no effort anymore.

[Anouleth]

I find it hard not to respond to the guy who says Nephenee (T) is 'decent'.

[Fenrir]

Um, any chance we should be doing Jill (T) > Neph (T)? I've never played with either, so I'm not sure. Neph(T) would be pretty helpful in 2-1 and 2-2, but Jill (T) is all kinds of pwn in 1-6 and that might make it even easier to deal with 3-6 and possibly Ike.

Oh, and for those that are missing smash-arguments or the old Interceptor v smash wars: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/932999-fire-emblem-radiant-dawn/55323226/610266915

I'm surprised Interceptor is even posting since I'd thought he'd quit Gamefaqs. But anyway, from that post on.

This one is Aran v Neph with classic 2008/early 2009 smash against 2010 Interceptor this time. I'm serious, smash hasn't changed one bit of his argument in 2 years. You could probably go find an old thread about Aran v Neph and you'd see about the same arguments coming from smash. Only Interceptor has grown and learned.

lol, his first point neph has a bad P4 unless promoted, let's see, Ike's P4 would struggle if not promoted, 27 speed would struggle to double, and he'd have no Aether to even make him somewhat salvageable, that's the best beorc combat unit, who struggles without promotion. He says later neph can't promote without a crown? what the heck? she can get nearly 10 levels even in HM in P2 if you take your time on 2-E but she'll at least be at Mia's starting level.

And why do so many people think aran is useful in P1, he's annoying to train even in NM, he was the lone DB i used, i shoved P3 Bexp and a speed wing down his throat, still a fail endgame, and the only stage he did well at was the easiest P4 stage, the snowy one against paladins. Aran's P3 is not as good as Nolan because nolan has tarvos, and access to an Xbow, while Jill can be trained amazingly well for 3-13H4X, Aran well let's see with a forged steel lance he's a little short of OHKOing the best tigers.

[Narga_Rocks]

Um, I didn't exactly want to have everyone start talking about Neph and Aran. We quit that a long time ago. I just wanted to give people something to read if they were missing the smash v Interceptor wars. The main point of that post was wondering what anyone thought of the current Jill (T) and Neph (T) positions.

[Fenrir]

Um, I didn't exactly want to have everyone start talking about Neph and Aran. We quit that a long time ago. I just wanted to give people something to read if they were missing the smash v Interceptor wars. The main point of that post was wondering what anyone thought of the current Jill (T) and Neph (T) positions.

well everyone finds smash v intercepter more interesting ;D but to your point, that's hard, i can't say which is better, i think they should be next to each other on tier, maybye jill(t) > shinnon? i like the sound of that.

[Ether]

I would put Jill(T) over Neph(T),but I've only played them with Str/Skl/Spd/Def transfers,so I may not be an accurate judge of them with Str/Skl/Spd.

[Anouleth]

Who cares? They're not on the same team, so any comparison between the two will necessarily be incredibly messy and probably inconclusive.

The real question is - should Jill (T) be above Nolan? Is her stomping him into the ground in every chapter in which they are in together more important than him actually existing in chapters 1-1, 1-2, 1-3, 1-4, 1-5, and 1-8? I'm inclined to say no. Nolan is really nothing special in 1-3, 1-5 and 1-8, and even in 1-4 he's only really valuable because we still have a shortage of non-wimps (wimps being Laura, Leonardo, Ilyana, Micaiah and Meg). And 1-2, we could have Sothe do most of the heavy lifting, except we only have 2 non-wimps to start off with. I'm not sure how much credit Nolan can take for these chapters where we're practically forced at gunpoint to use him. Whereas Jill has an undeniable advantage in chapters 1-6, 1-7 and 1-E:

Jill (T - STR/SKL/SPD) level 14 w/Iron Axe and Seraph Robe

31HP 21ATK 122HIT 17AS 14CEV 48AVO 13DEF 3RES

w/Hand Axe

22ATK 112HIT

Nolan level 15 w/Iron Axe and Dracoshield, B Edward

33HP 23ATK 136HIT 14AS 11CEV 54AVO 14DEF 5RES

w/Hand Axe

24ATK 126HIT

Nolan wins in everything... except Attack Speed, which he loses by three. Jill doubles everything on the map save a single Archer, a single Pegasus, and the Myrmidons. With 21ATK, she doesn't 1-round anything except Mages, but she can 1-round Pegasi with a Hand Axe (so she can kill the Javelineers on Enemy Phase). And when we consider an Iron forge, it gets fun - Jill can 2-round the Armours, 1-round the Soldiers and Fighters, and 2HKO the Myrms with a +4mt forge, and merely +10 hit on her forge also gives her display hit in the 90s. She also has Canto and 8 move, and can fly over Thickets. Her only sticking point is having to avoid the Thunder Mages.

And this continues throughout the rest of Part 1, and even into Part 3... except that the possibility of Super-Jill exists to extend her lead over him, and she will eventually develop her own support.

[Colonel M]

smash_fanatic: the slightly more intelligent MaxKnight of Fire Emblem. I never got the whole "Aran" ordeal.

[RNG Princess]

Who cares? They're not on the same team, so any comparison between the two will necessarily be incredibly messy and probably inconclusive.

The real question is - should Jill (T) be above Nolan? Is her stomping him into the ground in every chapter in which they are in together more important than him actually existing in chapters 1-1, 1-2, 1-3, 1-4, 1-5, and 1-8? I'm inclined to say no. Nolan is really nothing special in 1-3, 1-5 and 1-8, and even in 1-4 he's only really valuable because we still have a shortage of non-wimps (wimps being Laura, Leonardo, Ilyana, Micaiah and Meg). And 1-2, we could have Sothe do most of the heavy lifting, except we only have 2 non-wimps to start off with. I'm not sure how much credit Nolan can take for these chapters where we're practically forced at gunpoint to use him. Whereas Jill has an undeniable advantage in chapters 1-6, 1-7 and 1-E:

Jill (T - STR/SKL/SPD) level 14 w/Iron Axe and Seraph Robe

31HP 21ATK 122HIT 17AS 14CEV 48AVO 13DEF 3RES

w/Hand Axe

22ATK 112HIT

Nolan level 15 w/Iron Axe and Dracoshield, B Edward

33HP 23ATK 136HIT 14AS 11CEV 54AVO 14DEF 5RES

w/Hand Axe

24ATK 126HIT

Nolan wins in everything... except Attack Speed, which he loses by three. Jill doubles everything on the map save a single Archer, a single Pegasus, and the Myrmidons. With 21ATK, she doesn't 1-round anything except Mages, but she can 1-round Pegasi with a Hand Axe (so she can kill the Javelineers on Enemy Phase). And when we consider an Iron forge, it gets fun - Jill can 2-round the Armours, 1-round the Soldiers and Fighters, and 2HKO the Myrms with a +4mt forge, and merely +10 hit on her forge also gives her display hit in the 90s. She also has Canto and 8 move, and can fly over Thickets. Her only sticking point is having to avoid the Thunder Mages.

And this continues throughout the rest of Part 1, and even into Part 3... except that the possibility of Super-Jill exists to extend her lead over him, and she will eventually develop her own support.

Tarvos really helps him too for part 3

[Fenrir]

Tarvos really helps him too for part 3

one of his only advantages against jill(t) i think jill(t) could win Vs nolan, but he's around for many more stages, which IMO gives him the edge.

[Junkhead]

I find it hard not to respond to the guy who says Nephenee (T) is 'decent'.

Are you saying he is underrating or overrating that?

[Narga_Rocks]

Are you saying he is underrating or overrating that?

Talking specifically about 2-1, in which Neph (T) is able to ORKO everything not an armor (includes boss) or pseudo-armor (bandit) while 3HKOing and doubling all but the boss (whom she 2 rounds due to 4 hitting and doubling), he says her offence was 'decent'.

What do you think?

[Fenrir]

Talking specifically about 2-1, in which Neph (T) is able to ORKO everything not an armor (includes boss) or pseudo-armor (bandit) while 3HKOing and doubling all but the boss (whom she 2 rounds due to 4 hitting and doubling), he says her offence was 'decent'.

What do you think?

Yeah he definitely overrated her.

also, while i was thinking about him earlier, does Aran belong in upper mid? i would say no, anyone else agree with me? He's got like two or three stages where he actually does something worth noting, but what about Brom(t), he helps on 2-1, 2-2 and depending on how you play it 2-E. Aran is nice on 3-6 and 3-13, i guess 3-12 too...but he's as useful there as brom is at 2-E, Aran however does have part 4 and mobility in his favor, but brom gets part 3 and is more useful here than Aran is in P1, since aran only has 6 move on these stages and is worse than brom compared to enemies. So brom's P2 stages > Aran's P3? and Brom P3 > Aran's P1? Aran gets part 4 but that doesn't make the difference.

[Narga_Rocks]

Yeah he definitely overrated her.

also, while i was thinking about him earlier, does Aran belong in upper mid? i would say no, anyone else agree with me? He's got like two or three stages where he actually does something worth noting, but what about Brom(t), he helps on 2-1, 2-2 and depending on how you play it 2-E. Aran is nice on 3-6 and 3-13, i guess 3-12 too...but he's as useful there as brom is at 2-E, Aran however does have part 4 and mobility in his favor, but brom gets part 3 and is more useful here than Aran is in P1, since aran only has 6 move on these stages and is worse than brom compared to enemies. So brom's P2 stages > Aran's P3? and Brom P3 > Aran's P1? Aran gets part 4 but that doesn't make the difference.

Aran and Boyd are in about the same boat. They are both not good enough options to be raised and are generally inefficient in comparison to other choices. However, if you make the effort they both have their moments. That's basically what gets them both into upper mid. If Aran drops, Boyd drops.

As for Aran v Brom, I'm happy enough with Aran > Brom. same tier, a tier above, I don't really care.

(and please tell me you were sarcastic. ORKOing like 70% of the map while ruining the remaining 30% => "decent" is underrating.)

Edited June 27, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Junkhead]

Yeah he definitely overrated her.

also, while i was thinking about him earlier, does Aran belong in upper mid? i would say no, anyone else agree with me? He's got like two or three stages where he actually does something worth noting, but what about Brom(t), he helps on 2-1, 2-2 and depending on how you play it 2-E. Aran is nice on 3-6 and 3-13, i guess 3-12 too...but he's as useful there as brom is at 2-E, Aran however does have part 4 and mobility in his favor, but brom gets part 3 and is more useful here than Aran is in P1, since aran only has 6 move on these stages and is worse than brom compared to enemies. So brom's P2 stages > Aran's P3? and Brom P3 > Aran's P1? Aran gets part 4 but that doesn't make the difference.

Not really. He underrated her, you know, since she does alot better with +4 AS/2 Atk than N/T Nephenee.

I could agree with that. Aran's only shining moments seem to be part of Part 3- But you have to get him there first, and it's pretty rough on him. He has pretty mediocre Hit, his offense is pretty awful, and durability is nothing special.

[Narga_Rocks]

Not really. He underrated her, you know, since she does alot better with +4 AS/2 Atk than N/T Nephenee.

I could agree with that. Aran's only shining moments seem to be part of Part 3- But you have to get him there first, and it's pretty rough on him. He has pretty mediocre Hit, his offense is pretty awful, and durability is nothing special.

Why do people still seem to think N/T means no transfer? Red Fox explained it before. I think to Ninji. It should be obvious given units like Gatrie. When she puts (N/T), that means that the "Normal" and "Transfer" versions are in the same spot on the tier list. In the case of units like Gatrie, obviously Gatrie (T) > Gatrie (N), but since there are no other units between them there wasn't much point in separating them. How could N/T possibly mean no transfer if Gatrie (N/T) has transfers listed beside that part? Reyson, Haar, Gatrie, Zihark, shinon, Elincia, Rhys, Geoffrey, Volke, stefan, Danved, Bastian. Every single one of them is listed as (N/T) and given transfers.

so, +4 attack speed and +2 atk makes Neph (T) better than Neph (N).

[Junkhead]

Well, sorry, but that was my whole point, that she turns out pretty great for 2-1.

[Narga_Rocks]

Well, sorry, but that was my whole point, that she turns out pretty great for 2-1.

I know that part. I was rephrasing your point.

[Florete]

Added some notes to the first post regarding transfers.

[Narga_Rocks]

Added some notes to the first post regarding transfers.

Thank you.

Informative and concise, too.

[_____]

Dropping Aran down is going to be a huge mess because the units directly below him are Rolf, Mist, Marcia, and Heather. Not only are you getting cross-team arguments, but you're getting 2-range arguments, healing utility arguments, flying utility arguments, and thief utility arguments, and I know that I wouldn't want to debate all that.

[Fenrir]

Aran and Boyd are in about the same boat. They are both not good enough options to be raised and are generally inefficient in comparison to other choices. However, if you make the effort they both have their moments. That's basically what gets them both into upper mid. If Aran drops, Boyd drops.

As for Aran v Brom, I'm happy enough with Aran > Brom. same tier, a tier above, I don't really care.

(and please tell me you were sarcastic. ORKOing like 70% of the map while ruining the remaining 30% => "decent" is underrating.)

oh no i'm being completely serious ;D and Boyd is actually better once you train him, he can at least run around with a hammer on a couple maps in p3 Smashing armors, which i think is worth something, and his last P3 maps he can be promoted by, 3-11/3-E(it can easily be earlier), giving him a couple maps he's really good at, and he's also pretty good in P4 and endgame even on HM, with a speedwing(possibly the speedwing from 3-9)He should be doubling his first P4 map and with a 3-4 levels should be getting more speed since his growth is 45% on average he'll have 25 speed, so he should have 27, enough to double some P4 enemies and he can take out armors well.

Aran on the other hand, somewhat pays off for P3 DB maps, that's 3 maps. He averages 24 speed after class change, only 1 behind boyd, but with a 10 worse growth, boyd is beating him in P4, not to mention boyd's superior strength.

I would say that boyds P3 > Arans P1 but aran does have his P3 to give him a slight edge, but Boyd P4 > Arans P4, it's a pretty tight race between the two of them, imo Boyd wins, but this all weighs on how useful you think Aran is in P3, I don't think it's as good as others do, so if you think Aran's P3 is worth training him all through P1 then Aran > Boyd, or if you don't think Boyd is as good as i think then Aran > boyd, but i would say end of P3 boyd and his P4 makes up/beats Arans P3 and Boyd's P3 pre-promote beats Arans P1(Boyd actually can hit people 1/2-3/4 of their health while aran is at best hitting half their health, and the hammer is what makes it decisive to me)

Dropping Aran down is going to be a huge mess because the units directly below him are Rolf, Mist, Marcia, and Heather. Not only are you getting cross-team arguments, but you're getting 2-range arguments, healing utility arguments, flying utility arguments, and thief utility arguments, and I know that I wouldn't want to debate all that.

And, you aren't forced to debate this O_O IMO everyone but rolf beats aran on your list, but obviously i have a low opinion of aran.

[_____]

And, you aren't forced to debate this O_O

And by "I know that I wouldn't want to debate all that", I was implying that anybody who isn't a complete masochist would never want to debate all of that.

IMO everyone but rolf beats aran on your list, but obviously i have a low opinion of aran.

That is a very common sentiment, especially on this list, which also makes debating for Aran almost pointless anyway.

[Anouleth]

Dropping Aran down is going to be a huge mess because the units directly below him are Rolf, Mist, Marcia, and Heather. Not only are you getting cross-team arguments, but you're getting 2-range arguments, healing utility arguments, flying utility arguments, and thief utility arguments, and I know that I wouldn't want to debate all that.

Then we do the obvious - skip all those people and compare him to the next viable person - Tauroneo. Not that that's a great comparison either - it's 'mediocre for many chapters' versus 'good for few chapters', but it's still an improvement. The next DB character is lolEdward at the top of Lower Mid, which is an even messier comparison since Edward won't generally be used past 1-5.