OMG it's a tier list

[grandjackal]

Hmmm...I'm having a weird thought, but hear me out. I know I tend to rush and get hyped easy, but just tell me what you think of this idea. If it's too crazy, I'll let it go, but...

I call it BEXP sprinkling. I know it's BEXP, but my plan is not to pump people full of levels, but rather to cap people off. Here's the idea.

Only example I can think of is Meg. Let's say she gets a level on a map. Bit more action, she's close to another level up (not rediculous, considering her level to your team). Cap her off with a tidbit of BEXP, and she'd be garunteed 3 stats, one being speed. Not only this, but it garuntees she caps stats sooner, such as resistance. This is only taking a piddling amount of BEXP. This can be done with any unit, and not just her. But basically, it's just a way to faster boost levels, while still getting stats. To be honest, I was gonna suggest this more on units with stats already capped (Namely an example is Eddie after a Robe, but lets not bring stat boosters into this quite yet until we figured out if this idea is bullshit or not), as then they'd have like a 3 stat level average or lower then. That way instead of being like 2.5 for 5 levels, it would be more like 2.5 for 3 levels, 3 for 2. See where I'm getting at with this?

That's the groundwork, but what do you make of the idea? Again, if it sounds a bit too much, I'll let it go.

[nflchamp]

1-2 range isn't that important in a 1 player game. We generally kill all 2-range and 1-2 range enemies on player phase once they've approached the group because they can kill all those crappy durability units even if they're behind a wall of durable units. Unless everyone in range of the enemy has 1-2 range weapons, the enemy is just going to attack a 1-range unit. Even if everyone has 1-2 range equipped, the enemy is going to attack the weakest unit of the bunch. 1-2 range really only helps a unit extend their own attack range on player phase by 1.

I don't know why we should bother hurting the offense of the team to deal damage to 1-2 range and 2-range enemies on enemy phase when they only probably make up a total of ~20% of enemies in the game. And 75% of those are mages/bishops, who we can ORKO on player phase with almost anyone.

Edit: @Robo Ky - We already have that idea, we call it "slowplaying" BEXP.

Edited August 24, 2009 by nflchamp

[-Cynthia-]

1. Why is Meg guaranteed speed?

2. Most people's growths aren't so bad that we would prefer BEXP levelups, even Meg.

3. We might not have enough BEXP to do this, especially with the DB, since their early chapters just provide ridiculously low amounts.

[Florete]

Gatrie's 1-2 range needs to be seen as more than just enemy phase. Until Mia gets any kind of reliable 1-2 range, it effectively eliminates Mia's +1 move in areas that aren't terrain heavy, since without 2 range Mia can reach an enemy 8 spaces away, and with 1-2 range, so can Gatrie.

@Cynthia - Meg's Spd is her highest growth, and 25% above her fourth highest. On a BEXP level, the chance of her getting Spd >>>>>>> the chance of not.

EDIT: Whoops, that's Luck. Still, Spd is her second highest, 15% above the 4th. Pretty damn good chance.

Edited August 24, 2009 by Red Fox of Fire

[Ether]

Gatrie's 1-2 range needs to be seen as more than just enemy phase. Until Mia gets any kind of reliable 1-2 range, it effectively eliminates Mia's +1 move in areas that aren't terrain heavy, since without 2 range Mia can reach an enemy 8 spaces away, and with 1-2 range, so can Gatrie.

Getting kind of obscure here,besides,If Gatrie is using a hand axe,he may fail to ORKO the enemy he attacked,while Mia can ORKO it with her 1-range attack.

And again,storm swords do exist,even if they are rather uncommon,yeah,she doesn't have monopoly on them,but neither does Ike,so she will get to use them.

[grandjackal]

Edit: @Robo Ky - We already have that idea, we call it "slowplaying" BEXP.

Well this is news to me ;;>>

1. Why is Meg guaranteed speed?

2. Most people's growths aren't so bad that we would prefer BEXP levelups, even Meg.

3. We might not have enough BEXP to do this, especially with the DB, since their early chapters just provide ridiculously low amounts.

1. What Red Fox said

2. People like Meg have plenty of levels to grow, and generally the DB have great growths. They can afford to lose a couple epic levels, as they most of the time just want to reach tier 2 as soon as possible for Paragon.

3. They are low leveled, and they just want to cap levels not get boosted. If we don't have enough for even that, I'd find it rediculous. Besides, if it's so little, do you think those in part 4 will miss it?

I only used Meg as an example, since...Well...Speed is a tidbit of a problem. Third highest growht is HP, so it can sort of help her durability too...

Edited August 24, 2009 by Robo Ky

[Florete]

Gatrie's 1-2 range needs to be seen as more than just enemy phase. Until Mia gets any kind of reliable 1-2 range, it effectively eliminates Mia's +1 move in areas that aren't terrain heavy, since without 2 range Mia can reach an enemy 8 spaces away, and with 1-2 range, so can Gatrie.

Getting kind of obscure here,besides,If Gatrie is using a hand axe,he may fail to ORKO the enemy he attacked,while Mia can ORKO it with her 1-range attack.

And again,storm swords do exist,even if they are rather uncommon,yeah,she doesn't have monopoly on them,but neither does Ike,so she will get to use them.

15/1 Gatrie w/Hand Axe has 38 MT. Level 14 Mia can't reach that even with a +5 Steel forge and a full offense supporter like Boyd or Soren (37 MT). She'll need to be 18 (or possibly lower with BEXP) just to tie 15/1 Gatrie's MT with a Hand Axe. If Mia can kill, so can Gatrie, since the only advantage she'd have is crit but 39 MT kills a lot of stuff anyway. She'd only really have an advantage against stuff only she doubles, like Swordmasters.

[-Cynthia-]

Getting kind of obscure here,besides,If Gatrie is using a hand axe,he may fail to ORKO the enemy he attacked,while Mia can ORKO it with her 1-range attack.

And again,storm swords do exist,even if they are rather uncommon,yeah,she doesn't have monopoly on them,but neither does Ike,so she will get to use them.

Gatrie will have more Atk with a Hand Axe than Mia will though. Yes Mia gets +Atk from a support, but so can Gatrie.

13/1 Gatrie has 38 Atk with a Hand Axe.

14/0 Mia has 34 Atk with a max Mt forged Steel Sword.

If someone's having Atk issues here, it's not Gatrie. He's using a basic weapon, she's using a forge. He can switch to other lance/axe weapons if he wants to ORKO more things, I gave Mia the best weapon available at this point more or less. I know Mia's Adept and crit are great and all, but they're not as good as Gatrie ORKOing more things at 1-2 range than she can at 1 range.

I think I gave Mia more than her fair share of levels, 7 levels in 4 chapters.

Edited August 24, 2009 by -Cynthia-

[Ether]

Gatrie's 1-2 range needs to be seen as more than just enemy phase. Until Mia gets any kind of reliable 1-2 range, it effectively eliminates Mia's +1 move in areas that aren't terrain heavy, since without 2 range Mia can reach an enemy 8 spaces away, and with 1-2 range, so can Gatrie.

Getting kind of obscure here,besides,If Gatrie is using a hand axe,he may fail to ORKO the enemy he attacked,while Mia can ORKO it with her 1-range attack.

And again,storm swords do exist,even if they are rather uncommon,yeah,she doesn't have monopoly on them,but neither does Ike,so she will get to use them.

15/1 Gatrie w/Hand Axe has 38 MT. Level 14 Mia can't reach that even with a +5 Steel forge and a full offense supporter like Boyd or Soren (37 MT). She'll need to be 18 (or possibly lower with BEXP) just to tie 15/1 Gatrie's MT with a Hand Axe. If Mia can kill, so can Gatrie, since the only advantage she'd have is crit but 39 MT kills a lot of stuff anyway. She'd only really have an advantage against stuff only she doubles, like Swordmasters.

Oh right,hand axes have +3 mt on wind edges,not +2.

As I said before,I'm putting her at 16 + 1 Bexp,although I guess 1-2 range is an advantage for Gatrie,still,it's not all that important anyway,and once part 4 comes around,her 1-2 range is fine anyway.

[Zkirsche]

Gatrie's 1-2 range needs to be seen as more than just enemy phase. Until Mia gets any kind of reliable 1-2 range, it effectively eliminates Mia's +1 move in areas that aren't terrain heavy, since without 2 range Mia can reach an enemy 8 spaces away, and with 1-2 range, so can Gatrie.

Not quite, after 2 turns, Gatrie has an Atk radius of 14, whereas Mia can attack anyone within 15 squares of her starting position. And then there's teh shoving thing that Int mentioned.

[Florete]

Gatrie's 1-2 range needs to be seen as more than just enemy phase. Until Mia gets any kind of reliable 1-2 range, it effectively eliminates Mia's +1 move in areas that aren't terrain heavy, since without 2 range Mia can reach an enemy 8 spaces away, and with 1-2 range, so can Gatrie.

Not quite, after 2 turns, Gatrie has an Atk radius of 14, whereas Mia can attack anyone within 15 squares of her starting position. And then there's teh shoving thing that Int mentioned.

And then there's the Shoving thing Mekkah mentioned, where Gatrie can do the shoving. Hell, he's probably the perfect candidate for Smite.

[grandjackal]

I'd find Mordy the better smiter, due to A. better move range, and B. generally having time not doing anything anyways, so he might as well smite.

I suppose slowplaying helps none of the DB...Or has it been considered for them at all?

[Florete]

I'd find Mordy the better smiter, due to A. better move range, and B. generally having time not doing anything anyways, so he might as well smite.

I suppose slowplaying helps none of the DB...Or has it been considered for them at all?

Mordecai has 10 less Con when not transformed, and when he is transformed, he more likely wants to spend his Player Phases grassing or watering.

EDIT: Scratch the Con thing, he still has more. The rest still stands.

Edited August 24, 2009 by Red Fox of Fire

[grandjackal]

I'd find Mordy the better smiter, due to A. better move range, and B. generally having time not doing anything anyways, so he might as well smite.

I suppose slowplaying helps none of the DB...Or has it been considered for them at all?

Mordecai has 10 less Con when not transformed, and when he is transformed, he more likely wants to spend his Player Phases grassing or watering.

Good point, good point...

...Watering?

[Florete]

I'd find Mordy the better smiter, due to A. better move range, and B. generally having time not doing anything anyways, so he might as well smite.

I suppose slowplaying helps none of the DB...Or has it been considered for them at all?

Mordecai has 10 less Con when not transformed, and when he is transformed, he more likely wants to spend his Player Phases grassing or watering.

Good point, good point...

...Watering?

Pure Water, for Mordy's lack of Res.

[Ether]

Gatrie's 1-2 range needs to be seen as more than just enemy phase. Until Mia gets any kind of reliable 1-2 range, it effectively eliminates Mia's +1 move in areas that aren't terrain heavy, since without 2 range Mia can reach an enemy 8 spaces away, and with 1-2 range, so can Gatrie.

Not quite, after 2 turns, Gatrie has an Atk radius of 14, whereas Mia can attack anyone within 15 squares of her starting position. And then there's teh shoving thing that Int mentioned.

And then there's the Shoving thing Mekkah mentioned, where Gatrie can do the shoving. Hell, he's probably the perfect candidate for Smite.

If Gatrie is shoving people then isn't he only accenting his move loss even more?

Besides,better early 1-2 range doesn't counter the fact that she quickly becomes his equal in durability,and isn't even far behind him offensively for the 1 chapter it takes her to catch up.the fact that she completely destroys him for part 4 isn't exactly helping him.

[Florete]

Gatrie's 1-2 range needs to be seen as more than just enemy phase. Until Mia gets any kind of reliable 1-2 range, it effectively eliminates Mia's +1 move in areas that aren't terrain heavy, since without 2 range Mia can reach an enemy 8 spaces away, and with 1-2 range, so can Gatrie.

Not quite, after 2 turns, Gatrie has an Atk radius of 14, whereas Mia can attack anyone within 15 squares of her starting position. And then there's teh shoving thing that Int mentioned.

And then there's the Shoving thing Mekkah mentioned, where Gatrie can do the shoving. Hell, he's probably the perfect candidate for Smite.

If Gatrie is shoving people then isn't he only accenting his move loss even more?

Besides,better early 1-2 range doesn't counter the fact that she quickly becomes his equal in durability,and isn't even far behind him offensively for the 1 chapter it takes her to catch up.the fact that she completely destroys him for part 4 isn't exactly helping him.

I'd actually like to see some proof on Mia catching up in durability. All I see is some avoid vs. like 12 Def, 10 Hp, and even some Res.

[grandjackal]

If it's Ike support, it should be noted that that's a tad shaky...;;>> I think, was that ever resolved?

[Ether]

Gatrie's 1-2 range needs to be seen as more than just enemy phase. Until Mia gets any kind of reliable 1-2 range, it effectively eliminates Mia's +1 move in areas that aren't terrain heavy, since without 2 range Mia can reach an enemy 8 spaces away, and with 1-2 range, so can Gatrie.

Not quite, after 2 turns, Gatrie has an Atk radius of 14, whereas Mia can attack anyone within 15 squares of her starting position. And then there's teh shoving thing that Int mentioned.

And then there's the Shoving thing Mekkah mentioned, where Gatrie can do the shoving. Hell, he's probably the perfect candidate for Smite.

If Gatrie is shoving people then isn't he only accenting his move loss even more?

Besides,better early 1-2 range doesn't counter the fact that she quickly becomes his equal in durability,and isn't even far behind him offensively for the 1 chapter it takes her to catch up.the fact that she completely destroys him for part 4 isn't exactly helping him.

I'd actually like to see some proof on Mia catching up in durability. All I see is some avoid vs. like 12 Def, 10 Hp, and even some Res.

Okay,well at 3-7,with Mia at 16+1 BEXP,has 40 HP,17 Def,and 120 Avo with A Ike.

Crossbows 4HKO her at 24.85% True

The next Most accurate enemies have 139 and 141 Hit,and 4/3HKO her respectively.

As for true hit,that is 7.41 and 9.03 respectively.

As Enemy hit rates dip even lower,Steel lance!Halbs having 4.06% true,warriors having 0.55% true.All of this while she is 3HKO'd.One dragonmaster pulls the Mt to 2HKO,but he physically cannot hit her.

Add in her Vantage and Cancel/Crit/Adept,and her death chances are so miniscule she may as well be invincible.

[_____]

She's one of Ike's slowest support options, iirc, so A Ike is in no way guaranteed.

[Ether]

She's one of Ike's slowest support options, iirc, so A Ike is in no way guaranteed.

Narga showed a couple of pages back that her getting Ike is far from a problem.If she can't have an Ike support,Gatrie can't have his crown.Do you want to go there,it won't be pretty for you.

[grandjackal]

This raises a question actually, just when exactly is Gatling Cannon getting a crown? Once he maxes speed, he immediately NEEDS it. Without it, he lost all sense of offense. He needs the soonest one I'd imagine, of which he has to tussle with Titania and Haar for it, perhaps even Shinon.

[_____]

Narga showed a couple of pages back that her getting Ike is far from a problem.If she can't have an Ike support,Gatrie can't have his crown.Do you want to go there,it won't be pretty for you.

How the hell did you even come to that conclusion? A Ike in no way equals a Crown for Gatrie. Mia is not Ike's best support option. He'd rather have someone like Oscar, since the hit and MT are pointless. Gatrie puts the crown to it's best use.

[grandjackal]

Narga showed a couple of pages back that her getting Ike is far from a problem.If she can't have an Ike support,Gatrie can't have his crown.Do you want to go there,it won't be pretty for you.

How the hell did you even come to that conclusion? A Ike in no way equals a Crown for Gatrie. Mia is not Ike's best support option. He'd rather have someone like Oscar, since the hit and MT are pointless. Gatrie puts the crown to it's best use.

Titania and Haar seem to have suddenly vanish.

A Ike is easier to obtain than a crown. No damn clue why Oscar and Ike should pair, overkill is overkill. Oscar should support Titania to make her hax queen. Ike could generally support anyone and it wouldn't matter, he'd still be god.

Edited August 25, 2009 by Robo Ky

[Ether]

Narga showed a couple of pages back that her getting Ike is far from a problem.If she can't have an Ike support,Gatrie can't have his crown.Do you want to go there,it won't be pretty for you.

How the hell did you even come to that conclusion? A Ike in no way equals a Crown for Gatrie. Mia is not Ike's best support option. He'd rather have someone like Oscar, since the hit and MT are pointless. Gatrie puts the crown to it's best use.

IkeXOscar gives superflous avoid and deprives the team of two earth supports.

Hit is important later on,or for storm swords,and the MT helps him in the same situation(he can even use wind edges fairly effectively with Mia's attack bonus,35 Att isn't exactly good,but it is respectable all things considered)