OMG it's a tier list

[Anouleth]

I don't actually want to move Elincia unless someone sees how many levels you can get her. Quite frankly, if you can get her enough before 4-E-1 then she's got the offence we assumed back when she got placed there. BK can be Nailah Ferried up to the top where his 1-2 range will come in handy in 1-E.

I got her to level 12, with Paragon in both 4-2 and 4-5, and I wasn't really wasting time in those chapters, either. Really, I can think of no better person to give Paragon to assuming you want to bring her to the Tower, so I don't think it's out of line to suggest she should get it at least in 4-2.

And while I admit my Elincia was below average in both speed and strength, the possibility of screwage exists in any playthrough. What's the chance exactly that she ends up a point below her speed average? Or even two points? I don't have Maple to do the calculation for me right now.

[Narga_Rocks]

I got her to level 12, with Paragon in both 4-2 and 4-5, and I wasn't really wasting time in those chapters, either. Really, I can think of no better person to give Paragon to assuming you want to bring her to the Tower, so I don't think it's out of line to suggest she should get it at least in 4-2.

And while I admit my Elincia was below average in both speed and strength, the possibility of screwage exists in any playthrough. What's the chance exactly that she ends up a point below her speed average? Or even two points? I don't have Maple to do the calculation for me right now.

Who needs Maple? We've got:

http://www.feplanet.net/games-10-characters-averages

If you click on the right things, you'll get to charts involving chance to get a stat at a given level, and chance to get "at most" a stat at a given level.

And for (most of) the other games, we've got:

http://fea.fewiki.net/

[Interceptor]

Two things:

- Maurim is pretty decent in 4-4, you just need to give him Wrath + Resolve. He has 33 AS, +50 crit, and starts transformed. While he doesn't have the durability to survive forever, and his LCK is a problem, he's a handy unit when you need one.

- Neph (T) is good, but I resist comparisons to Mia. One of the pillars of that tier placement is her support with Ike, who really wants nothing to do with Nephenee. Neph (T) is going to be badass offensively, but her durability issues have not gone away.

[Fenrir]

smart but lazy. Be impressed that I changed the units in the spoilers and not just the one you can see without clicking.

I'll go do it now.

Anyway, I've always wanted Tormod, Kieran, Geoffrey, Muarim in the same tier. Probably lower mid, but I suppose mid is possible. Thoughts, all?

And anyone else willing to comment on Rolf's exp gains (when you try to raise him)?

Anyway, if nobody objects I'd be willing to move Neph(T) at least over Zihark.

Mid would be good, and for neph(t) to jump zihark, i want Nolan going with her. If Nolan doesn't go with her i don't want her jumping.

If they go to mid, Eddie goes with them.

100% agreed

[dondon151]

Mid would be good, and for neph(t) to jump zihark, i want Nolan going with her. If Nolan doesn't go with her i don't want her jumping.

Why not? Until I see the performance of my DB team in 3-6, I am not convinced that Nolan really helps you at all past 1-5.

[RNG Princess]

Geoffrey should go above Soren imo because both are dump material but Geoffrey's fighting seems to help clear things faster than Soren's.

Also does he get you a 2nd brave lance in 4-5? I'm confused because I took brave lance off him during 2-3 but in 3-10 as an npc he had another brave lance.

Edited July 6, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Interceptor]

Why not? Until I see the performance of my DB team in 3-6, I am not convinced that Nolan really helps you at all past 1-5.

Well, even if Nolan sucks balls on your team, it's not a reflection of his lack of prowess. Your experiences in 0% growths heavily skew towards the "what if everyone was RNG-screwed" side of the coin, which is not the whole story.

Also does he get you a 2nd brave lance in 4-5? I'm confused because I took brave lance off him during 2-3 but in 3-10 as an npc he had another brave lance.

If you take away all of his usable weapons, he does get a Brave Lance in 3-10, but only when he's not a blue unit. Once you get him back in 4-5, he has the same inventory that he had when 3-9 ended. So it's just a temporary default weapon for when he has nothing else, like iron weapons for the DB in 3-7 if they had empty inventories.

Edited July 6, 2010 by Interceptor

[Fenrir]

Why not? Until I see the performance of my DB team in 3-6, I am not convinced that Nolan really helps you at all past 1-5.

You are doing a 0% growth PT(right?), as intercepter said, it's as if everyone gets RNG screwed.

Nolan benefits from good growths, all 1st tier units are naturally gonna suck balls if they have 0% growths. A 0% growth PT should have nothing to do with a effeciancy tier list.

[grandjackal]

Two things:

- Maurim is pretty decent in 4-4, you just need to give him Wrath + Resolve. He has 33 AS, +50 crit, and starts transformed. While he doesn't have the durability to survive forever, and his LCK is a problem, he's a handy unit when you need one.

And Eddie can be good up to 1-5.

Alright, I'll stop with the Eddie business.

- Neph (T) is good, but I resist comparisons to Mia. One of the pillars of that tier placement is her support with Ike, who really wants nothing to do with Nephenee. Neph (T) is going to be badass offensively, but her durability issues have not gone away.

Well then, let's not give Neph the Ike support then and find her a different one. Clearly, it's her durability that's the problem as stated. 16 Def and 34 HP is 2 more Def but 2 less HP than Mia. I recall there being a Dracoshield to use, and there's always Mordecai, or Brom as a placeholder until she can become friends with a GM. There's always Gatrie.

[dondon151]

You are doing a 0% growth PT(right?), as intercepter said, it's as if everyone gets RNG screwed.

Nolan benefits from good growths, all 1st tier units are naturally gonna suck balls if they have 0% growths. A 0% growth PT should have nothing to do with a effeciancy tier list.

No shit, Sherlock. The problem here is this: Nolan is not "necessary" after 1-5. His 1-1 and 1-2 contributions are nice, but you only need him in 1-3 to chip at an armor and he spearheads your secondary offense in 1-4. Furthermore, I've gone faster in part 1 than any other efficiency playthrough, which should hint to you that Nolan is probably getting even less EXP than he currently is.

And why should a 0% growth playthrough have nothing to do with an efficiency tier list? It has had a significant impact on the tier lists for every other game that I've played through. If you haven't been looking at the turncounts, you'll see that up through part 2, I've been more efficient than anyone else.

[Colonel M]

0% do prove a lot of worth to units that have good bases, and while Nolan's are very good, it is true that a playthrough such as this he gets skewered a lot, so a lot of his impact gets a dent. When you lack the growths (or literally get RNG-screwed), Nolan loses a lot of fire, and I think we'll see some of the same results with other characters.

Either way, saying a 0% Growth play through makes 0 impact on an efficiency tier list is like stating my low turn play through of Shining Force II doesn't matter (and unfortunately many people view it that way in their forum and respective GFAQ board).

As far as Nolan goes, I'm pretty sure it can be proven > Zihark anyway regardless of the impact of the play through. Jill being over Nolan might be a possibility though since she doesn't really "need" growths to contribute to flying utility (but it sure as hell helps with her combat).

[RNG Princess]

No shit, Sherlock. The problem here is this: Nolan is not "necessary" after 1-5. His 1-1 and 1-2 contributions are nice, but you only need him in 1-3 to chip at an armor and he spearheads your secondary offense in 1-4. Furthermore, I've gone faster in part 1 than any other efficiency playthrough, which should hint to you that Nolan is probably getting even less EXP than he currently is.

And why should a 0% growth playthrough have nothing to do with an efficiency tier list? It has had a significant impact on the tier lists for every other game that I've played through. If you haven't been looking at the turncounts, you'll see that up through part 2, I've been more efficient than anyone else.

I'm impressed how you managed to keep such a low turn count with 0% growths, my part 1 was very hard with character's natural growths.

Edited July 6, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Interceptor]

A 0% growth PT should have nothing to do with a effeciancy tier list.

I wouldn't take it that far. A 0% growths run can tell you what you can do on a shoestring, and/or if people are horribly screwed. That shows you a portion of the things that matter to a tier list, just not all of it.

Alright, I'll stop with the Eddie business.

Good, because I'm really tired of saying something that has nothing to do with Eddie at all, and having you jump down my throat about your favorite Myrmidon. At least wait until it's on topic.

Furthermore, I've gone faster in part 1 than any other efficiency playthrough, which should hint to you that Nolan is probably getting even less EXP than he currently is.

Not to disparage your playthrough, but your Part 1 is full of manipulations that aren't going to fly on the tier list, be they for enemy stats or for crits/skill activations/whatever. That being said, even if Nolan lost a level or two as a result, it doesn't really matter for his Part 3. As long as he can promote, and OHKO tigers consistently with Tarvos (he can essentially always do it with a 1-2 range weapon), he can grow into whatever other stats that he needs as 3-6 wears on. We can put up with him getting two-shotted for a short time because of his offense.

[dondon151]

Not to disparage your playthrough, but your Part 1 is full of manipulations that aren't going to fly on the tier list, be they for enemy stats or for crits/skill activations/whatever. That being said, even if Nolan lost a level or two as a result, it doesn't really matter for his Part 3. As long as he can promote, and OHKO tigers consistently with Tarvos (he can essentially always do it with a 1-2 range weapon), he can grow into whatever other stats that he needs as 3-6 wears on. We can put up with him getting two-shotted for a short time because of his offense.

What manipulations? Wrath manipulations in 1-P are uncontrollable and don't really matter for Eddie's tier position anyway because we all know that he's the only way to get things done. No manipulations are needed on 1-1. 1-2 only requires the starting fighter to not have maximum HP, def (which he usually won't, probably around 75% of the time), and normally either Micaiah or Nolan would have gained a point of mag or str anyway. 1-3 has no manipulations. 1-4 has Sothe finding 2 items at roughly 80% chance. 1-5 has nothing. 1-6-1 and 1-6-2 have nothing either. 1-7 has nothing. 1-8 requires Sothe has at least 2 uses of Beast Killer left over from 1-4, which is variable depending on crits in 1-4. 1-9 is guaranteed. 1-E is also guaranteed.

I wouldn't rely on strategies that require an insane amount of manipulations, simply because there are no savestates on a Wii, so every time a strategy fails, I have to restart the chapter. I'd say that 2-1 has more intense manipulations than all of my part 1 maps combined, and even that only requires 3 hits at shaky hit rates, one of which must be a Wrath crit.

I agree that Nolan can still get EXP in and before 3-6. I just think that Nolan's lack of contribution from 1-6 to 1-E should be considered.

Edited July 6, 2010 by dondon151

[Fenrir]

No shit, Sherlock. The problem here is this: Nolan is not "necessary" after 1-5. His 1-1 and 1-2 contributions are nice, but you only need him in 1-3 to chip at an armor and he spearheads your secondary offense in 1-4. Furthermore, I've gone faster in part 1 than any other efficiency playthrough, which should hint to you that Nolan is probably getting even less EXP than he currently is.

And why should a 0% growth playthrough have nothing to do with an efficiency tier list? It has had a significant impact on the tier lists for every other game that I've played through. If you haven't been looking at the turncounts, you'll see that up through part 2, I've been more efficient than anyone else.

Wow dumbass of course your P1 is faster because your not training anyone. effeciancy in FE was explained to me was that you are going through with good turns while training characters. needless to say you'll have a harder time in P3 DB maps but you'll probly do some gay manipulation your playthrough is more on the speedrush side than effeciant.

I'm impressed how you managed to keep such a low turn count with 0% growths, my part 1 was very hard with character's natural growths.

He speedrushed...

[dondon151]

Wow dumbass of course your P1 is faster because your not training anyone. effeciancy in FE was explained to me was that you are going through with good turns while training characters. needless to say you'll have a harder time in P3 DB maps but you'll probly do some gay manipulation your playthrough is more on the speedrush side than effeciant.

Well, here, let me indulge you with EXP training opportunities that we could have given to Nolan (and I roughly went over this with Int in #feto):

1-1: Nolan is a champ and takes boss kill.

1-2: Nolan can get KO on at least 3 enemies, maybe 4.

1-3: Admittedly, not a lot. Unless there is some great strategy that involves going down the west side with minimum risk.

1-4: KO on a boss, and a couple of tigers.

1-5: Free EXP. He can probably get a KO on Wystan.

1-6: Not a lot, but he can chip and get at least 2 KOs on 1-6-2.

1-7: All of the enemies in the north are his for the taking. He probably can't kill them all in 5 turns, but free EXP.

1-8: Some enemies near the starting point.

1-E: He probably shouldn't be deployed (I used Zihark over him, but there honestly isn't much difference), but you've got a mage, a myrm, and an armor that start near the south, plus part of at least 1 group of reinforcements.

And then finish off with BEXP and a Master Seal. I just didn't bother training him because it wouldn't make him better, but here's what you get.

Efficiency does not imply training characters. Efficiency implies using good characters. Training is usually a side effect.

Edited July 6, 2010 by dondon151

[Colonel M]

Wow dumbass of course your P1 is faster because your not training anyone. effeciancy in FE was explained to me was that you are going through with good turns while training characters. needless to say you'll have a harder time in P3 DB maps but you'll probly do some gay manipulation your playthrough is more on the speedrush side than effeciant.

Hey MaxKnight, part of Efficiency's goal involves fast completion. He has 0% growths and at least didn't have major manipulation on his play through anyway. Back to Experience Efficiency with ya.

[grandjackal]

Wow dumbass of course your P1 is faster because your not training anyone. effeciancy in FE was explained to me was that you are going through with good turns while training characters. needless to say you'll have a harder time in P3 DB maps but you'll probly do some gay manipulation your playthrough is more on the speedrush side than effeciant.

*BK does everything in 3-6, Crowned Taur takes care of 3-12, Volug Wrath Resolve on Ike for 3-13, or barring that just plugging up holes in defense and waiting till the chapter ends naturally, abusing hte hell out of the sheer amount of NPCs there are on the chapter*

It's been done before, it doesn't really take much thought or manipulation.

He speedrushed...

Because we all know efficiency means taking your time...

Also dondon, just a few things.

1-1: Nolan is a champ and takes boss kill.

Well, if this were a game with growths, wouldn't you think Eddie could take the kill? You can kill the boss with him, then Michaiah flees so you don't have to trade the sword out to him in 1-2. That, and while it's not garunteed, it would help him possibly double more often than not which would help make things considerably easier than Nolan just getting a point in Skl or something.

1-2: Nolan can get KO on at least 3 enemies, maybe 4.

It's possible to short turn it without Sothe murdering everything himself. While obviously Sothe can and nothing would change, you could probably get more kills out of this chapter for Nolan if you wanted.

1-3: Admittedly, not a lot. Unless there is some great strategy that involves going down the west side with minimum risk.

Oddly enough, it would involve splitting up, one side taking the west side, the other taking the east. That way, enemies on the east side can pull enemies form reinforcing the west side, and vice versa.

However, ust having Sothe mow down the east side is still easier I imagine, so you'd pretty much be right, as my strategy involves Illyana teaming up with Eddie on the east side, and I don't like having to depend on Illyana's shoddy-at-the-time accuracy. You could however very much abuse the walls, and the fact you can shoot over them.

1-6: Not a lot, but he can chip and get at least 2 KOs on 1-6-2.

Even without the Taur drop, this chapter's doable in 3 turns. Sure, Taur would save you A turn, but come on...Of course, I'd still probably give the kill to VolugSothe or Miccy, but at least a 3rd kill is possible for Nolan.

However, that'd require that units actually grow when trained, so in a 0% run...Yeah, probably impossible to pull that off.

1-7: All of the enemies in the north are his for the taking. He probably can't kill them all in 5 turns, but free EXP.

He can with help. Again, no growths being the problem.

1-E: He probably shouldn't be deployed (I used Zihark over him, but there honestly isn't much difference), but you've got a mage, a myrm, and an armor that start near the south, plus part of at least 1 group of reinforcements.

Well if we're talking about efficient completion, the only people we would bother bringing to this chapter are Nailah and transportation for Michaiah.

While it's not saying much, I could say that the armors+the reinforcements you stated+the two fighters that come up on the second floor are the minimum amounts of EXP you can get this chapter to guys like Nolan. In fact, I'd say most of the second floor is up for grabs...Ya know, after Nailah naturally being there takes out the trouble enemies like the punk with the Killer Edge (Since he's dumb enough to run up to her and try some funny business). Of course, that's cutting it close, but I think it's possible.

Sorry, just had to add my two cents.

Edited July 6, 2010 by Master Tang

[Narga_Rocks]

Mid would be good, and for neph(t) to jump zihark, i want Nolan going with her. If Nolan doesn't go with her i don't want her jumping.

High (12) (T-3)

Sothe (N/T)

Mia

Titania

Gatrie (N/T - Str, Skl, Spd, Def)

Leanne

Nailah

Ulki (T - Str)

Janaff (N/T)

Ulki

Nolan

Zihark (N/T - Str, Skl, Spd)

Nephenee (T - Str, Skl, Spd)

Shinon (N/T - Skl, Spd)

Jill (T - Str, Skl, Spd)

Rafiel

I already moved Nolan above Zihark. Still waiting on someone at least saying something about Nolan, Zihark, Nephenee compared to the hawks.

[RNG Princess]

I thought efficient meant finishing in the right amount of turns and good enough bexp and funds, I didn't know it meant which characters to use. Does that mean I'm playing ineffieciently?

[Narga_Rocks]

I thought efficient meant finishing in the right amount of turns and good enough bexp and funds, I didn't know it meant which characters to use. Does that mean I'm playing ineffieciently?

The characters themselves are irrelevant. If you can accomplish turns just as low as somebody else but using different units then it's equally efficient. If your choices for units are incapable of getting that low, then your team choice is arguably "inefficient", but if you are getting your turncounts as low as is safely possible with those particular characters then you would be playing "efficiently with those characters", I'd say.

And it'll be interesting to see what dondon does for the DB part 3. I think speedwing Volug with 30 speed is going to beat up on Ike with 25 speed (winged), but frankly that won't actually fly on the tier list since Ike should have 28 to 30 speed at that point and Volug probably can't get high enough to double even with a wing (that we'd be sending to the GMs anyway).

Also, since the argument was originally Nolan or Zihark, I doubt Zihark will be doing much in part 3 (aside from 3-12) either, so even if you assume Nolan gets dropped or whatever, Nolan > Zihark is still reasonable.

[grandjackal]

I already moved Nolan above Zihark. Still waiting on someone at least saying something about Nolan, Zihark, Nephenee compared to the hawks.

I know Zihark belongs damn well below the hawks, but I'm not sure about Nolan. Both the hawks and Nolan are capable of saving turns, but it's more on how. Nolan's got early portions of Part 1 and his Part 3 winsauce, and the hawks have their flight goodness for what it's worth in part 3 and part 4 while being equally badass.

Only issues I see here are this. How does one measure transformation issues for hawks versus Nolan's need for EXP feed?

Broad strokes, but I can at least say it comes close.

As for Zihark, I still question him being that high. Let's take a look at Transfer Neph at about 2 levels from 2-1.

32.9HP, 17.7 Str, 22.4 Skill, 23.1 Speed, 12.8 Luck, 15.7 Def, 14.9 Res

Steel Greatlance-31 Might

Lucia-38 HP, 18 Str, 27 Skl, 27 Speed, 19 Lck, 14 Def, 15 Res

Silver Sword-30 Might

23 AS is pretty much good enough for 2-2. 5 HP loss, but 2 Def lead. Her only real problem is luck facing crit from the occasional thunder mage.She's comparing to the person who's usually considered the best of 2-2. Granted, Haar then shows up immediately in 2-E, then it becomes problems. But hey, I'd like to see Zihark come close to comparing to Muarim, or Nailah, or the BK.

How about when she hits part 3?

Lvl 6 Neph-34.25 HP, 18.85 Str, 23.8 Skl, 25.25 Spd, 14 Lck, 16.75 Def, 16.25 Res, C support with...Someone?

Steelforge-33-34 Might, 35 if she's supported to Mordy or Brom

Lvl 10 Mia-36.1 HP, 18.35 Str, 27.8 Skl, 29.95 Spd, 19.05 Lck, 14.2 Def, 8.75 Res C Ike

Steel forge-32 Might, 33 with Ike thanks to her own affinity.

Obviously, Mia's got more avoid and crit, and her speed allows her to double swordmasters, along witht he fact she's better at using skills (you get 2 Adepts, but things like Haar's Cancel goes better on Mia as well) but the point is that even considering, she's comparing to one of the best GMs on the team.

What's Zihark's part 3? He's got to compete with Beastfoe Nolan, Resolve Volug, Canto Jill with Paragon, and I wouldn't even put him above Beastslayer Sothe, since Miccy chip+that equates to something being dead. In fact, if we take Ziharl's Adept off him and toss it to the GMs, what DOES he have? He's just some dude. Hell, even Aran at this point when trained could help block enemies like he's that guy from the Old Spice commercials.

Also, Wrath/Resolve Eddie

Bleh, maybe I'm trying too hard with cross-army comparisons, or maybe I'm being too broad, but I still see room for Zihark to drop. I think even T Jill has a case. 13 Str and 17 AS, 17 AS doubles everything but myrms and ONE archer. Between T Jill and Zihark with forges, she's only 2 might less than him, 26 might to 28 respectively. Could give her the energy drops and suddenly I have a flying Zihark with canto and is growing exponentially faster. Even without it, the only advantages Zihark has offensively over Jill are minimal. These include OHKOing the thunder mage (if we give T Jill the Energy Drops, she can do the same), and 3HKOing armors while Jill 4HKOs, despite the fact that both 2RKO (and again, Jill with energy drops can do the same). Really, Zihark's only lead is that he's got 6% Adept chance over her for the armors (of which she eventually can get a Hammer to suddenly beat him out on armors), Brave and Killer blades to avoid counters (of which Part 1 enemies are so sparce I would hardly call taking counters an issue). Even then, while he's got ways to avoid counters, she's got Canto to minimize enemy phase as to keep her safe.

Then, there are parts where her actions actually do save turns. Taur drop, helping transport Michaiah in 1-E.

[dondon151]

I would say normal Jill has a case on Zihark just because she flies, but I thoroughly abused a 14/1 Jill in part 1 (trust me, you need that 1 extra move for the strategies).

Well, if this were a game with growths, wouldn't you think Eddie could take the kill?

Does Eddie make use of the EXP? Keep in mind that starting in 1-1, Eddie is still at least 3 levels down on Nolan and loses durability by a sizable amount. Also consider that there are only so many slots and so much EXP that we can devote to training units in part 1 and that there are only 3 easily obtainable Master Seals - 1 goes to Ilyana, 1 goes to Jill, and 1 goes to Nolan. The Master Seal in 1-6-2 is unobtainable if we clear in 2 turns.

EDIT: oops, please merge this post with above.

Edited July 6, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[grandjackal]

I would say normal Jill has a case on Zihark just because she flies, but I thoroughly abused a 14/1 Jill in part 1 (trust me, you need that 1 extra move for the strategies).

Well that, and Zihark just feels redundant. You already have Sothe (who's speed's still not a problem thus far, can actually manage more might than Zihark, with range no less), Volug (more move, tougher, no need of weapons), Tauroneo (for that one map, but then the LEA show up), Jill (unique utility, can pull off SOME decent combat though obviously still lacking a bit. If it's transfer Jill though, she blows Zihark out of the water as well, as demonstrated), and a small team of basic DB (you have more than enough unit slots at the time, they actually can manage to make part 3 easier for the DB so you at least have a reason). Zihark just feels...Filler. The only time I can think of where he is uniquely helpful is in 1-8 to fight 18 AS bandits (Seriously, wtf), since the only ones doubling them are Nailah, Vika and Muarim (all of which are pre-occupied). Past that, I didn't find any real need for him, even in 1-E as a means to clear some punks on hte ground floor out of the way.

Obviously he's a great filler in part 1, but it's followed up by subpar performance in pat 3, and part 4 rolls around and shows he's barely better than Lucia.

I think he even has a case to drop to upper mid. I'd think even Miccy's got thigns on him, like insta-blicking the tougher units and bosses and Sacrifice of part 1, heavy magic chip on low resistance enemies and healing in Part 3, Wrath-botting with Sacrifice, Rescue-Warping in part 4's Endgame...I think that stacks up well to being a great third wheel to part 1 with 1-8 tightly under his belt.

Does Eddie make use of the EXP? Keep in mind that starting in 1-1, Eddie is still at least 3 levels down on Nolan and loses durability by a sizable amount. Also consider that there are only so many slots and so much EXP that we can devote to training units in part 1 and that there are only 3 easily obtainable Master Seals - 1 goes to Ilyana, 1 goes to Jill, and 1 goes to Nolan. The Master Seal in 1-6-2 is unobtainable if we clear in 2 turns.

Enemies in Part 1 tend to be sparce and spread thin. If you take out enemies in the general vicinity quickly, Eddie's durability is hardly an issue. If anything, his ability to clear out enemies better than most of the DB early on is of advantage. He can make 1-3 easier by allowing you to split up this seperating the enemy forces from reinforcing one another, Wrathing back at laguz in 1-4 takes them out faster than Nolan needing a team of people (reason I prefer this over Miccy getting Wrath is because Eddie can lure laguz in AND have a chance to blick them in return. If he fails, nothing's really changed, since you were gonna kill it on player phase anyways), and has an easier time pulling EXP out of 1-5 sine Wing Edge+Ledge boosting his might can equate to dead mages in 1 turn (and the level I got him at, 1 level on average would let him do the same for archers. Fighters might be a harder sell, but there's more than one space on the ledge). If you feel he still robs you from that point on, you're still apt to drop him and get more EXP to Jill and Nolan from that point forward.

Another good reason is he's the only other person outside of Volug who can Wrath Resolve, and he's got Caladbolg and a full Nolan support (if we're using Eddie). 91 avoid after Resolve for Volug, 78+8 for Eddie after Resolve when using Caladbolg discounting supports (Eddie would have 108, Colug would have around 115). Difference being? Eddie's support is helping Nolan survive easier, as to better abuse Beastfoe Tarvos. Any EXP Eddie took in the past is paid for now. You can even still slap Cancel on Eddie as well. Eddie would also have around 15 crit from Resolve Skill, +!0 from swordmaster bonus, 50 from Wrath and 5 from Caladbolg. 80 crit before enemy luck, with 30% Cancel and 108 avoid. Furthermore, it makes Eddie another cantidate to beat down Ike, his increased Crit chances being the kicker here.

You also forget the master seal in 1-8.

Edited July 6, 2010 by Master Tang

[Narga_Rocks]

I miss smash. Yes, I disagreed with him a lot, but at least he said something against what I want to do so that I have a chance to think beyond my own opinions to see if I'm really correct. At times, he has actually convinced me of things. Ok, not a lot of things, but things nonetheless. I mean, he has said so much he must have hit the mark at least twice, right? Anyway, someone please please please defend Zihark.

And there are only 4 free Master seals, GJ, and one of them is that one in 1-6-2 that you can't get in 2 turns. Probably not even in 3 turns.