OMG it's a tier list

[Florete]

Well, Oscar also has an impact in 3-P and 3-1. And I wouldn't say that Nephenee and Oscar are "tied" in the remainder of the game.

Neither would I but we both know where that's going.

[Soren37]

Does this mean that someone has to go through the game, once with Neph and another time with Oscar?

[Fenrir]

Does this mean that someone has to go through the game, once with Neph and another time with Oscar?

No, I think it would be completely unnecessary. I still don't see how Neph's speed can make up for her other disabilities compared to Oscar.

[RNG Princess]

I think they mean Nephy better than Oscar because she's cheaper(no crown due to speed cap) and because her combat is around the same. I think Oscar is better though, a Titania-lite seems more useful than a Mia-lite. On a side note, imo, Heather is Mia-lite not Neph.

[Radiant Dragon]

Nephenee's strength is significantly worse than Oscar's for quite a while though, so her combat lags behind his. And as you said, a slightly weaker Titania is more useful than a slightly weaker Mia.

[Florete]

Personally, I consider Oscar a significantly weaker Titania, not slightly. Lack of consistent doubling, significantly worse Str, and weaker weapons is not "slight."

Nephenee's not much better, but that's why she's not much higher.

[Caliban of Sycorax]

Personally, I consider Oscar a significantly weaker Titania, not slightly. Lack of consistent doubling, significantly worse Str, and weaker weapons is not "slight."

Nephenee's not much better, but that's why she's not much higher.

This hits the nail on the head, especially when we're looking at Nephenee being weighed down by her starting weapon, leaving Brom to be the main bosskiller because we can't trust her avoid at all. And the only other weapon we have is a Javelin. Whoopee.

[Fenrir]

Personally, I consider Oscar a significantly weaker Titania, not slightly. Lack of consistent doubling, significantly worse Str, and weaker weapons is not "slight."

Nephenee's not much better, but that's why she's not much higher.

He may be significantly weaker, but she's the only thing we can compare him to. The funny part is, we're not comparing him to her at all in this scenario, so it's highly irrelevant.

I still don't see any other categories besides speed and the crown why neph is better. 2-1/2-2 even out with 3-P/3-1 in my mind.

[Colonel M]

Actually, Nephenee + Brom is usually necessary for killing 2-1's boss (without major RNG abuse). Nephenee w/Wrath helps a lot wrt killing him.

Still, I don't see how Nephenee beats Oscar. His Spd cap requesting an early crown isn't even that bad. The only other participant is Haar or Gatrie, and Gatrie has a severe Mov problem. Oscar also has a few other clutch-ish situations such as helping with 3-3's supplies and aiding with Titania in 3-4 to help Ranulf gun up the mountains. Not to mention he's useful in 3-5. He's got some chapters such as 3-7 and 3-11 where his uses are of limited quality, but Nephenee's don't extend much better either. Aside from 2-1, she's only "necessary" in 2-2 for a few instances, and that's about it. Her biggest problem is she either requires a massive BEXP dump back in 2-E or costing more turns to pretty much be a mediocre combat unit.

Take it from the guy who at least tried to use her seriously. I mean, I fucking hate Oscar with a passion, but I really don't see Nephenee beating him that much to even justify being over him. Canto too gewd.

(And if we're going to bitc about stat comparisons, there's a lot of depending variables that have to be settled, such as 2-E's BEXP and if we're gunning turncounts like wildfire).

[Florete]

He may be significantly weaker, but she's the only thing we can compare him to. The funny part is, we're not comparing him to her at all in this scenario, so it's highly irrelevant.

I think Oscar is better though, a Titania-lite seems more useful than a Mia-lite.

And as you said, a slightly weaker Titania is more useful than a slightly weaker Mia.

You were saying?

But if you meant that the comparison is supposed to be between him and Nephenee, yes, I agree.

Oscar also has a few other clutch-ish situations such as helping with 3-3's supplies and aiding with Titania in 3-4 to help Ranulf gun up the mountains.

How, of all characters, is Oscar more clutch than Nephenee on 3-4? I mean, really?

Take it from the guy who at least tried to use her seriously.

What about this girl who used her seriously on multiple occasions? PEMN and all, but even with her mediocre start, I've always been able to get a good Nephenee while I generally can't even get Oscar to double.

(And if we're going to bitc about stat comparisons, there's a lot of depending variables that have to be settled, such as 2-E's BEXP and if we're gunning turncounts like wildfire).

Yeah, that's why I stopped the previous argument. We can't really change anything without knowing what we're doing.

[Soren37]

WRT P2's BEXP, who else is going to get it?

Elincia-No. She's 3rd tier and already pretty good. BEXP won't help her stats, either, unless you are extremely blessed.

Marcia-Maybe. However, she already needs a lot of babying in 2-3 (whichever one you get the CRK), because 2-P is horrible for her. She might as well just grab Leanne and run.

Nealuchi-lol

Leanne-lol

Haar-No. Slowplay for better stats, then BEXP in P3.

Brom-lol

Neph-Maybe.

Heather-lol

Lucia-...

Lethe-lol

Mordecai-lol

Geoffrey-He has Paragon and...2 1/2 chapters.

Kieran-Maybe. Nolan and Jill already have axes cleaned up.

Astrid-...

Makalov-If you really, really want to. I don't think he'd be up for it, though.

Danved-If you don't want Neph.

Calill-If you really want magic in Endgame.

After looking at all of the unique P2 characters, the only ones that benefit from it are Neph, Marcia,Geoffrey, Kieran, Mak, Danved and Calill.

[RNG Princess]

2-P is horrible for Marcia? Lol

All characters you said are a waste of BEXP imo, except Marcia and Nephy, they have long term potential.

Haar is the best candidate but speedwings keep him good enough from wanting the BEXP.

I wonder if Lethe is that bad in HM, all she needs is a few BEXP levels to reach 30.

As for Marcia or Nephy i'd rather give it to Marcia, since GM is never undermanned.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Queen_Kittylincia

[aku chi]

WRT P2's BEXP, who else is going to get it?

Mordecai-lol

What's laughable about giving Mordecai some Bexp? Bexp for Mordecai is cheap (starting out like a level 4 tier 2 beorc). Resolve Mordecai is a viable combat unit throughout Part 3. While Mordecai probably doesn't need the Bexp level-ups (he has enough HP, Lck, and Def), bexping him to 99 before 2-E (and maybe 2-2) doesn't seem like an especially bad idea.

[Fenrir]

But if you meant that the comparison is supposed to be between him and Nephenee, yes, I agree.

That's all i was really getting at.

Kieran-Maybe. Nolan and Jill already have axes cleaned up.

After looking at all of the unique P2 characters, the only ones that benefit from it are Neph, Marcia,Geoffrey, Kieran, Mak, Danved and Calill.

It pisses me off how axes are brought into this. There's no reason why axes have anything to do with the BEXP here. Also, your only reason for Calill is "If you really want magic in Endgame." You would consider getting rid of a competent endgame unit and some of this BEXP for...CALILL??

Marcia/Geoff/Kieren/Mak/Danved/ all of those guys can't get BEXP. they join late in the stage.

[Anouleth]

I don't see how it's a negative that Kieran has the best weapon type in the game.

[RNG Princess]

That's all i was really getting at.

It pisses me off how axes are brought into this. There's no reason why axes have anything to do with the BEXP here. Also, your only reason for Calill is "If you really want magic in Endgame." You would consider getting rid of a competent endgame unit and some of this BEXP for...CALILL??

Marcia/Geoff/Kieren/Mak/Danved/ all of those guys can't get BEXP. they join late in the stage.

well they can get some BEXP in 2-3 but you're mostly right, if they want it all I think they have to wait until 3-9.

[Florete]

It pisses me off how axes are brought into this. There's no reason why axes have anything to do with the BEXP here. Also, your only reason for Calill is "If you really want magic in Endgame." You would consider getting rid of a competent endgame unit and some of this BEXP for...CALILL??

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with Kieran using Axes (if anything it's good). It's probably a result of the mindset a lot of people have when playing that they don't want to have multiple units who are the same because they like variety, but that has nothing to do with tier lists.

Also, you say that like Calill is terrible.

[RNG Princess]

All Kieran needs is hammer or Adept or both for 3-9, afterwards he goes downhill it seems ^^' at least speedwise. I think BEXPing would be a waste, maybe waste is not the right word but using the BEXP on Nephy or Marcia could show better/more results than giving it to Kieran I think.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Queen_Kittylincia

[Fenrir]

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with Kieran using Axes (if anything it's good). It's probably a result of the mindset a lot of people have when playing that they don't want to have multiple units who are the same because they like variety, but that has nothing to do with tier lists.

Also, you say that like Calill is terrible.

That mindset, which people think they need all SS weapon types, makes absolutely no sense to me. I have never played through the game using all SS weapons.

& Callil is horrible when compared to Tibarn/Cain/Jill/Haar etc.

All Kieran needs is hammer or Adept or both for 3-9, afterwards he goes downhill it seems ^^' at least speedwise. I think BEXPing would be a waste, maybe waste is not the right word but using the BEXP on Nephy or Marcia could show better/more results than giving it to Kieran I think.

I agree. But i think Haar should be considered as well.

[RNG Princess]

Obviously Callil is worse than Titania/Haar but its not fair to compare units to them all the time unless its the same tier units. If Callil is worse than Haar/Titania that doesn't mean she's worse than the other character she's compared to because the other character is also worse than Titania/Haar too. Besides if Callil gets some BEXP it doesn't really affect Titania, I know Haar can use P2 BEXP but small things can slide from time to time . Haar is broken already as it is BEXP only gets him performing better in 2-E and he's already good enough.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Queen_Kittylincia

[Fenrir]

Obviously Callil is worse than Titania/Haar but its not fair to compare units to them all the time unless its the same tier units. If Callil is worse than Haar/Titania that doesn't mean she's worse than the other character she's compared to because the other character is also worse than Titania/Haar too. Besides if Callil gets some BEXP it doesn't really affect Titania, I know Haar can use P2 BEXP but small things can slide from time to time . Haar is broken already as it is BEXP only gets him performing better in 2-E and he's already good enough.

I would agree there is no reason to compare the two. The only reason i brought it up was because for 4-E Calill does get compared to the best of the best, and Soren37 said Calill could be an endgame unit.

[Soren37]

I would agree there is no reason to compare the two. The only reason i brought it up was because for 4-E Calill does get compared to the best of the best, and Soren37 said Calill could be an endgame unit.

Anyone can be an Endgame unit. I could bring Lyre, Meg, and Fiona and call them Endgame units. Efficiency-wise, it'd be a disaster, but it's possible.

And with the BEXP, Haar and Mordecai can get BEXP (haven't played HM, or even beaten NM, so bear with me), but Mordecai falls under the category of non-Royal laguz, who have a short-term potential with minimal long-term gain. Sure, P2 and P3 he's tankier than both Big T and Gatrie, but come P4, he starts to falter.

Haar can get BEXP if you want, but I've always heard people talk about slowplaying him for EXP and then BEXP when they're sure he's capped enough stats.

CRK, fair enough. They get none. Too bad for them. As for Calill, she can double with a Rexflame, as well as actually pick up the damn thing unlike Snacks. Heck, just bless Cymbeline for her and call it a day. Her 2 STR is pitiful enough. Giving her a 13 Wt weapon is just asking for trouble.

And Fenrir, really? I've always tried to get the SS weapons (except Baselard). The Mt they provide for the Hit is well worth it, unless you want to spend whatever money you have for forges.

[dondon151]

How, of all characters, is Oscar more clutch than Nephenee on 3-4? I mean, really?

Yes, really. Oscar and Titania move up the left side of the map faster than Neph can move up the right side of the map. It doesn't matter that Oscar can't reach the top level of the map because Neph won't be able to reach it either within the time frame in which we're clearing the chapter. The only important things that Oscar and Titania do here are taking some heat off Ranulf and helping Rhys get into range for a top level Physic on turn 4, but in comparison, Neph does literally nothing to help us. Well, except for like, shoving Rhys, but a lot of people can do that.

Edited July 30, 2011 by dondon151

[Fenrir]

Anyone can be an Endgame unit. I could bring Lyre, Meg, and Fiona and call them Endgame units. Efficiency-wise, it'd be a disaster, but it's possible.

Funny you should mention the efficiency thing, but that doesn't matter here. Not like this is an efficiency list or anything.

And with the BEXP, Haar and Mordecai can get BEXP (haven't played HM, or even beaten NM, so bear with me), but Mordecai falls under the category of non-Royal laguz, who have a short-term potential with minimal long-term gain. Sure, P2 and P3 he's tankier than both Big T and Gatrie, but come P4, he starts to falter.

LOL WUT? Tauroneo and Gatrie... not like they falter in P4 either. lol

Haar can get BEXP if you want, but I've always heard people talk about slowplaying him for EXP and then BEXP when they're sure he's capped enough stats.

You can do that, but he loves the BEXP here.

CRK, fair enough. They get none. Too bad for them. As for Calill, she can double with a Rexflame, as well as actually pick up the damn thing unlike Snacks. Heck, just bless Cymbeline for her and call it a day. Her 2 STR is pitiful enough. Giving her a 13 Wt weapon is just asking for trouble.

Calill is better than snacky... who is in Low tier. woop dee freakin doo!

And Fenrir, really? I've always tried to get the SS weapons (except Baselard). The Mt they provide for the Hit is well worth it, unless you want to spend whatever money you have for forges.

lolololololol easymodefag.

[Florete]

Yes, really. Oscar and Titania move up the left side of the map faster than Neph can move up the right side of the map. It doesn't matter that Oscar can't reach the top level of the map because Neph won't be able to reach it either within the time frame in which we're clearing the chapter. The only important things that Oscar and Titania do here are taking some heat off Ranulf and helping Rhys get into range for a top level Physic on turn 4, but in comparison, Neph does literally nothing to help us. Well, except for like, shoving Rhys, but a lot of people can do that.

And the clash of tier philosophies returns. I feel we'll never get over such a thing.

This is looking dangerously close to a "max efficiency" argument with statements like "the time frame in which we're clearing the chapter" and "top level Physic on turn 4." But that's all. I was ready to say a lot more, but at this point I'm just going to leave it at "who cares?" It'll never be decided how exactly our tier lists work, and that's why they only get random spurts of activity every now and then until the arguments spiral into tier philosophy instead of unit vs unit. That's why I gave it up in the first place (but then Narga left and I was willing to take it back, so yeah).

And again, in the end I said more than I originally meant to. Oops.

Anyway...someone make a list of changes that was decided on. I hadn't changed anything because I wanted things to settle so I could make them all at once, and since I'm now accepting Oscar > Nephenee it looks like that time has come.