OMG it's a tier list

[Narga_Rocks]

I just really don't understand what IS was thinking with her bases and her level. She'll be growing so slowly if you let her fight transformed, and she has 17 might and 12 speed fighting untransformed. It is virtually impossible to significantly raise her level either way. With 24 speed she is quickly missing on doubling a bundle of enemies that reach 21 speed rather early in part 3 (Warriors, some halbs, fewer snipers), so she can't even quickly raise her strike level. Her bases might be okay in 2-2 and less so in 2-E, but if she'd been level 16 or 17 she would have been much better due to actually having leveling potential while transformed. At least Volug's bases carry him through part 1 and he can level in part 3. Janaff's and Ulki's bases carry them pretty well until 4-E starts. Even Ranulf is somewhat okay relative to his team (only "somewhat" because of that stupid gauge and no leveling, his bases don't carry him nearly as far as Janaff's and Ulki's). Lethe is just, irritating, considering she was arguably better than Mordy in PoR and now it's not even close.

[grandjackal]

This is true in 2-3, but 2-3 consists of mostly not killing.

Anyone can not kill, the problem is getting to the boss with as little casualties as possible. There are bastards that get in your way, and Danved's not helping to clear them out because he's behind every-goddamn-body.

Then in 3-9, Danved is less affected by thickets and ledges. Lethe is a cat, and cats lose to almost anything by default unless they're Ranulf...imo.

Giving Danved two levels for 2-3 + 3-9, and Lethe one level for part 2, plus two levels for part 3 until 3-11 (3-4, 3-7, 3-8, 3-10...probably being generous but w/e), and here's what we're looking at.

--/11 Danved

40.5 hp, 17.8 str, 23.6 skl, 21.9 spd, 19.2 luk, 15.9 def, 12.5 res

Steel Greatlance: 31.8 atk, 136.4 hit, 16.8 crt

Killer Lance: 26.8 atk, 146.4 hit, 36.8 crt

24 Lethe

53.6 hp, 20.2 str, 27.8 skl, 27 spd, 19.4 luk, 20.4 def, 21.2 res

Stupid Cat Claw: 28.2 atk, infinite hit, 13.9 crt

Go ahead and compare that to losing meter, I'm too lazy.

She may be a cat, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have ways of keeping her meter going. It's that when you're losing to Lethe this badly...

Edited June 27, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[Vykan12]

I don't see the appeal of beating 2-3 pacifist style. You get what, 10k from saving the max possible amount? That's 2 BEXPed levels for someone. You can get more putting CEXP into Marcia and Geoffrey alone and don't have to go through the hassle of setting up a long vertical wall of disarmed units, not to mention all the potential turns lost for this minimal gain.

[Shadow Mir]

I just really don't understand what IS was thinking with her bases and her level. She'll be growing so slowly if you let her fight transformed, and she has 17 might and 12 speed fighting untransformed. It is virtually impossible to significantly raise her level either way. With 24 speed she is quickly missing on doubling a bundle of enemies that reach 21 speed rather early in part 3 (Warriors, some halbs, fewer snipers), so she can't even quickly raise her strike level. Her bases might be okay in 2-2 and less so in 2-E, but if she'd been level 16 or 17 she would have been much better due to actually having leveling potential while transformed. At least Volug's bases carry him through part 1 and he can level in part 3. Janaff's and Ulki's bases carry them pretty well until 4-E starts. Even Ranulf is somewhat okay relative to his team (only "somewhat" because of that stupid gauge and no leveling, his bases don't carry him nearly as far as Janaff's and Ulki's). Lethe is just, irritating, considering she was arguably better than Mordy in PoR and now it's not even close.

If you think that's irritating, take a look at Lyre and tell me what you see. She's practically impossible to train untransformed.

Edited June 27, 2009 by Jonathan Aulin

[Narga_Rocks]

It is actually faster to do 2-3 the pacifist route. If Geoffrey had've gotten the arms scroll the first time he stood on that square (or second, or third), I would've been done by turn 8 or 9. I'm not always the best at getting a chapter done on time, but I had issues on Normal mode getting it done by turn 11 while obliterating. If I'd remembered it was a seize, I would've finished around turn 13 or something. On HM, it took Geoffrey until turn 9 to get the arms scroll and Kieran was blocking the jump down from the building so Marcia had to beat the boss (annoying physic user made that take longer, too). And I still finished on turn 11. I know that is PE and all, but I don't think there are turns lost. I'm not sure how quickly you can kill 80% or more of the enemies, though. Maybe you can do it in 6 or 7 turns, or something, I certainly can't. As for minimal gain, those 2 1/2 levels you can give to Nephenee are good for 2 or 3 speed at the beginning of 2-E. Basically doubling her output on a fair number of units, and I think she can even double an extra couple of guys with the steel greatlance that she can now double (those units that she could double with a steel lance without the boost). So I kinda think it is worth it, although Marcia and Geoffrey might be better in 3-9 with the killing in 2-3.

Oh, and the 2 1/2 was with around 41. Geoffrey killed extra things while getting the arms scroll. So I'm pretty sure with like 20 to 30 experience at the end of 2-2 Neph can still get 3 levels before 2-E if you can leave 50 alive in 2-3, in addition to any levels in 2-1 and 2-2 you get her.

To Jonathan Aulin, there are a fair number of units that irritate me in this game. Lyre levels partway between Shinon and Titania while transformed, so she might actually level, but she is still worse than Lethe, yes.

But, at least Lyre didn't get nerfed from PoR, so it isn't as irritating to me as Astrid and Lethe. And I don't get why we can't have the early transformers, mid transformers and late transformers like in PoR. What was wrong with having some laguz transform on turn 1, others on turn 3 or so, and others turn 4? And what was wrong with building gauge on turn 1?

Edited June 27, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[Florete]

I don't see the appeal of beating 2-3 pacifist style. You get what, 10k from saving the max possible amount? That's 2 BEXPed levels for someone. You can get more putting CEXP into Marcia and Geoffrey alone and don't have to go through the hassle of setting up a long vertical wall of disarmed units, not to mention all the potential turns lost for this minimal gain.

Well, if we don't assume max 2-3 BEXP, then Marcia's level coming into 3-11 can be significantly higher than previously assumed (or any other CRK for that matter). You can easily say that any CRK you plan on using can be fed kills in both 2-3 and 3-9 when it won't slow the chapter down.

[grandjackal]

I don't see the appeal of beating 2-3 pacifist style. You get what, 10k from saving the max possible amount? That's 2 BEXPed levels for someone. You can get more putting CEXP into Marcia and Geoffrey alone and don't have to go through the hassle of setting up a long vertical wall of disarmed units, not to mention all the potential turns lost for this minimal gain.

Geoffery will thank you for making him suck regardless, Marcia's the only one who possibly benefits this chapter.

Unless you're arguing Danved's getting benefit here too...Or this is just continuing the Marcia argument, in which case pardon me.

I'd still think 2 bexp levels for someone is more beneficial than giving these clowns the piddling CEXP this chapter gives.

[Shadow Mir]

It is actually faster to do 2-3 the pacifist route. If Geoffrey had've gotten the arms scroll the first time he stood on that square (or second, or third), I would've been done by turn 8 or 9. I'm not always the best at getting a chapter done on time, but I had issues on Normal mode getting it done by turn 11 while obliterating. If I'd remembered it was a seize, I would've finished around turn 13 or something. On HM, it took Geoffrey until turn 9 to get the arms scroll and Kieran was blocking the jump down from the building so Marcia had to beat the boss (annoying physic user made that take longer, too). And I still finished on turn 11. I know that is PE and all, but I don't think there are turns lost. I'm not sure how quickly you can kill 80% or more of the enemies, though. Maybe you can do it in 6 or 7 turns, or something, I certainly can't. As for minimal gain, those 2 1/2 levels you can give to Nephenee are good for 2 or 3 speed at the beginning of 2-E. Basically doubling her output on a fair number of units, and I think she can even double an extra couple of guys with the steel greatlance that she can now double (those units that she could double with a steel lance without the boost). So I kinda think it is worth it, although Marcia and Geoffrey might be better in 3-9 with the killing in 2-3.

Oh, and the 2 1/2 was with around 41. Geoffrey killed extra things while getting the arms scroll. So I'm pretty sure with like 20 to 30 experience at the end of 2-2 Neph can still get 3 levels before 2-E if you can leave 50 alive in 2-3, in addition to any levels in 2-1 and 2-2 you get her.

Bolded: ...What?! You DO realize that pacifism might actually be SLOWER, right...?

[Narga_Rocks]

Why is it slower? There is like one fighter who gets in the way on turn 2, Marcia Danved and Geoffrey can have one of them kill him and move on, by turn 3 Geoffrey is at the arms scroll and the bowgun guys attack Geoffrey and his short spear. By turn 5 you can knock the door down and the boss is dead by turn 7. Geoffrey can seize on turn 7 or 8 depending on whether he helped kill the boss on turn 7. To kill everything, or most things, there are tons of paladins and mounted knights in the starting area and lots of reinforcements, and everything on the buildings to kill. And if you are killing everything then there are two coins to get cause you might as well. I don't see how that is happening by turn 8. If you can kill 80% of the things that quickly without setting the partners on roam, go ahead. You get more bexp by leaving something alive than letting a partner kill it, so setting them on roam is counterproductive to the goal of getting more experience by pseudo-routing.

edit: fixed three mistakes

Edited June 27, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[grandjackal]

Looking things over on Makalov...

It sucks how bad he starts, because his finish is glorious (I think...do you need 33 or 34 speed to double shit endgame?)

Not sure what level Mak would be around endgame, but...If he's at level 10 Gold Knight (or whatever the fuck he is) with Alondite or Vague Katti... He's getting 3 rounded by red dragons. Not sure how much that would measure up, considering they'd have high defense, and Mak even at that point isn't exactly a power house...

I get the feeling it's doubtful he's getting to level 10 Gold Knight by 4-E-3 though.

[Shadow Mir]

Looking things over on Makalov...

It sucks how bad he starts, because his finish is glorious (I think...do you need 33 or 34 speed to double shit endgame?)

Not sure what level Mak would be around endgame, but...If he's at level 10 Gold Knight (or whatever the fuck he is) with Alondite or Vague Katti... He's getting 3 rounded by red dragons. Not sure how much that would measure up, considering they'd have high defense, and Mak even at that point isn't exactly a power house...

I get the feeling it's doubtful he's getting to level 10 Gold Knight by 4-E-3 though.

You need 34 speed. Which means Mak also gets screwed over by Paladin syndrome.

[grandjackal]

Which case, screw the CRK. None even have the cap save Marcia.

Least Mak can say is he's pretty damn durable there. Access to def+ legendaries, Sol, and his magic is surprisingly pretty decent so he can put use to Imbue.

Edited June 27, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[Narga_Rocks]

Looking things over on Makalov...

It sucks how bad he starts, because his finish is glorious (I think...do you need 33 or 34 speed to double shit endgame?)

Not sure what level Mak would be around endgame, but...If he's at level 10 Gold Knight (or whatever the fuck he is) with Alondite or Vague Katti... He's getting 3 rounded by red dragons. Not sure how much that would measure up, considering they'd have high defense, and Mak even at that point isn't exactly a power house...

I get the feeling it's doubtful he's getting to level 10 Gold Knight by 4-E-3 though.

Well, he'd need a fair amount of paragon use, like 3-9, one of 3-11 or 3-E, one of his pre endgame part 4 chapters and one of 4-E-1 or 4-E-2. I can't imagine him getting there without this much, though, considering I think that's what it took Marcia to get there and she can actually double early and beyond, he takes a while. I'm not sure when he'd start doubling, though. I think he can do it, though. The thing is 33 speed is most useful in 4-E-2, when he can double everything that isn't a swordmaster. After that 32 is about the same as 33, considering 32 lets you double thunder spirits and 32+5 lets you double the same stuff that 33+5 lets you double. He still isn't doubling deg or ashera's auras, and 37 doubles Ashera herself just as much as 38. If you really want to bring a paladin to endgame anyway, it might as well be Oscar or Titania. Oscar misses out on the warriors of 3-E-2 relative to Makalov, but that's it. Mak gets more defense, but 2HKOd vs. 3HKOd against reds is just a little change in strategy, really. Chances are if a unit is facing more than 1 it is facing more than 2, anyway. Plus Oscar has a better avo considering he is -2 before supports.

Edited June 27, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[grandjackal]

Anyone else think Lucia could move up a bit more? Basically it goes like this.

You give her the Talisman you get immediately. Her resistance is maxed. You skullfuck the chapter with her and her group, doesn't matter how as long as you don't level her up. Do make sure to get her exp when you can, not that it's hard with her.

Part 4 rolls around, just dump exp on her till promotion. She'll be garunteed to walk out with 3 more Strength, Luck, and Defense out of it.

What do we get?

Lucia Trueblade.

HP: 44. 25.5 Str, 16.2 Mag, 32 Skill, 32 Speed, 23.8 Luck, 20.9 Def, 21 Res

We got great Imbue use, Earth affinity, soon to have access to one of the two SS swords (or whatever is best for when you got no other choice). I can't say how much the Str might be problematic, but...

As for supports, bet options she has are those without much option. Elincia, Calill and Tauroneo. Calill is one of the few who might be able to manage a usable endgame, Taur gives defensive boosts for when he's around, and Elincia is probably the best for the situation.

The problem however is obvious, that she is eating up a severe amount of resources. Good news is that it makes it rather effortless for her to have part 4 use.

But...I guess I'm talking out my ass...

However, consider the resources those above her eat up just to be meh regardless. Think it might be a bit much to say it isn't reasonable to see her above Keiran?

Edited June 27, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[Narga_Rocks]

I think Kieran would have to move below Rolf for Lucia to move above Kieran. Lucia takes resources to be good and Rolf takes a lot of work. I think that's about even, but Rolf can reach 34 speed anyway and becomes superstrong. Unless Lucia can be shown to need less work to make good than Rolf does I can't see how she could move above him, unless 2-2 is that important.

Edited June 27, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[NinjaMonkey]

Just wondering, where would Ashera come on this tier list?

[grandjackal]

I think Kieran would have to move below Rolf for Lucia to move above Kieran. Lucia takes resources to be good and Rolf takes a lot of work. I think that's about even, but Rolf can reach 34 speed anyway and becomes superstrong. Unless Lucia can be shown to need less work to make good than Rolf does I can't see how she could move above him, unless 2-2 is that important.

Considering Rolf needs CEXP, BEXP, and effort to get him out of his era of part 3 suck, while Lucia just takes a few button pushes?

[Narga_Rocks]

Ashera can't move. That would make some maps difficult, considering her AoE attacks have very little might after 10 squares. Her hit Gareth attack only has magic/2 range and her magic is 15, so that is only 7 range. If she started every map near the boss, I suppose she'd be rather good. Otherwise, not so much.

For Lucia, in 2-2 you make sure not to let her level and hopefully get her above 80. Then she gets bexp, but when? She can't be slow played unless you want a level 17 swordmaster in endgame, and you can't just give her 3 levels of bexp all at once because that would be like 1/3 of our bexp or more and she is not even forced nor would she be better than Mia or Zihark with that expense. I've never tried to raise Rolf on HM, but does he really need bexp too? With just cexp he has max str and max spd by --/20/15. He just needs a massive amount of cheap kills. I don't know if that is worse than taking most of our bexp and giving it to someone who will be third best in her class once it is all done. Rolf is arguably tied with Shinon at a high enough level. He probably still falls short, but likely by a lot less than Lucia falls short of Mia and Zihark.

Edited June 27, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[-Cynthia-]

I don't think Lucia above Kieran is terribly reasonable and I like Lucia.

Kieran is the second best unit on 2-3 and 3-9, and he has 2-E. Lucia's the best unit on 2-2, but this still averages out to Kieran being better pre- Part 4.

Then you have to consider that Kieran has 3-11 and 3-E to further his level lead over Lucia. When they are finally on the same map for 4-2, Kieran should be at or near promotion, while Lucia has 6 levels to go.

Lucia isn't completely helpless in part 4 though, especially since she's on a team that gives her a big Avo boost, can use thickets for more Avo, and still doubles almost everything. The point is though, Lucia is only beating Kieran come Endgame, which doesn't make up for Kieran's wins in earlier chapters.

I could see Lucia over someone like Makalov though, since Makalov is very unspectacular(he's better than Astrid, after that is debatable) in the CRK chapters, unlike Kieran, and Lucia ends up better than Makalov for 4-E and possibly Part 4.

[Vykan12]

It is actually faster to do 2-3 the pacifist route.

That's impossible. How can having enemies alive and in some capacity in your way be better than having them clear of your path? I'm not insisting we rout the map, just that it's easier to just have Geoffrey + Kieran + maybe a few others charge for the throne while maybe designating some units to take on reinforcements.

[-Cynthia-]

That's impossible. How can having enemies alive and in some capacity in your way be better than having them clear of your path? I'm not insisting we rout the map, just that it's easier to just have Geoffrey + Kieran + maybe a few others charge for the throne while maybe designating some units to take on reinforcements.

I agree, the "best" way to do 2-3 is to charge your units forward and kill anything that directly blocks your way(and the Speedwing guy), but don't kill units that aren't in the way, since the BEXP gained is pretty much better than the CEXP anyway. Danved is less useful in this situation, since he has the lowest Mov, Makalov isn't very useful either because he isn't very good at taking out the stronger enemies.

Edited June 27, 2009 by -Cynthia-

[Narga_Rocks]

That's impossible. How can having enemies alive and in some capacity in your way be better than having them clear of your path? I'm not insisting we rout the map, just that it's easier to just have Geoffrey + Kieran + maybe a few others charge for the throne while maybe designating some units to take on reinforcements.

Okay, when you put it like that it might be about even. The thing is, it is not entirely pacifist to get above 40. There aren't many enemies in the way. There is a fighter on turn 2 who gets into the way on turn 1 enemy phase, but nothing else if you position right. Then Marcia kills the fighter, Kieran blocks access from below, or the targetted partners do. Geoffrey needs a weapon because there are a few enemies around the arms scroll. To do this quickly they clearly have to die, but that doesn't mean we aren't being mostly pacifist. Then the two bowgun users die and the general and the boss. I can't see all the positions but I think it is less than 15, maybe even less than 10 that we need to kill to finish in 8 turns. I'm not sure how fast you are looking at doing this with killing or how many extra kills you are looking at giving Marcia and Geoffrey and Kieran. I'm not sure who needs the levels for 3-9 considering nobody is reaching the 22 luck required to not get critted by the boss in 3-9 and even Kieran on average needs 3 levels to get enough luck for his Geoffrey bond to make him safe. Since Geoffrey and Kieran are the best at charging the boss and Marcia can kill the horseslayer guy on turn 4, your 3 guys with the most potential are stuck at the top where there are fewer enemies if you don't go on the roofs. I'm not denying that you could get more exp for Geoffrey, Kieran, and Marcia. I'm just saying that the most experience you can get for them requires keeping them below the arms scroll for a few turns which slows them down.

Oh, and Makalov and Danved serve a pretty useful purpose. Unequipped they get us around 800 to 1000 bexp by standing on a thicket and having multiple enemies miss them for the entire duration rather than kamikaze-ing the partners. Many turns they can fully heal with a herb, some they need to use a vulnerary. It is pretty cheap, actually. I don't know how much credit that is worth on a tier list, though. Still, it is like half a level for Neph. Well, probably one third.

Edited June 27, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[Ether]

It's a pity that he is not affected by slayer effect. Looking at him right now with my Jill with dragonfoe. Weapon ain't flashing, thus no slayer effect. Good luck doing any damage with magic.

Just wanted to reply to this.Mantle negates Dragonfoe.Wyrmslayers and thunder magic still deal effective Mt.

[grandjackal]

I don't think Lucia above Kieran is terribly reasonable and I like Lucia.

Kieran is the second best unit on 2-3 and 3-9, and he has 2-E. Lucia's the best unit on 2-2, but this still averages out to Kieran being better pre- Part 4.

Then you have to consider that Kieran has 3-11 and 3-E to further his level lead over Lucia. When they are finally on the same map for 4-2, Kieran should be at or near promotion, while Lucia has 6 levels to go.

Lucia isn't completely helpless in part 4 though, especially since she's on a team that gives her a big Avo boost, can use thickets for more Avo, and still doubles almost everything. The point is though, Lucia is only beating Kieran come Endgame, which doesn't make up for Kieran's wins in earlier chapters.

I could see Lucia over someone like Makalov though, since Makalov is very unspectacular(he's better than Astrid, after that is debatable) in the CRK chapters, unlike Kieran, and Lucia ends up better than Makalov for 4-E and possibly Part 4.

To further the level lead. Ok, lets see how far Keiran gets with the need of effort put into him, possibly even hogging paragon.

Keiran at promotion

49 HP, 28 Str, 11.3 Mag, 25.6 Skill, 24.7 Speed, 18.7 Luck, 25.4 Def, 17.25 Res

He barely even doubles the slowest enemies on the map, the healers way back with the boss. But I gave Lucia BEXP favor, lets give it to Keiran. Problem is thanks to his Str growth, using it on him when he maxes HP is a waste as the other points will very likely go to Str, Skill and Def. Even when he maxes Str, chances of it hitting Speed or Luck are equal level, so even considering he needs to get lucky with BEXP. Even considering, it only helps him double the slower end generals. Lucia on hte other hand with the stats I posted above, is capable of doubling all but the speedier types of swordmasters. Their strength isn't too far off either, but Lucia is doubling far more often. On top of that, her skill and speed allow for more skill options like Adept and such, with a killer sword and her crit bonus she has a greater crit chance than he does by miles (thank you Elincia bond). Her damage output is far greater than his.

As for Evade? Lucia at neutral bio has about 32-50 displayed hit on her on normal ground and without bonding support nearby, nor leadership taken into account. Keiran? 55-somewhere in the 70s. Durably they aren't that far off, but considering she's dodging a lot more, Keiran wins mobi-oh wait! Fucking hedges! Hell, I could bring up hit issues here, but I won't bother.

As for Laguz?...Well I can see how many of them there are, but no stats for some bizarre reason. All I really have to say anyways is Wyrmslayer.

As for Endgame? I think we all know how hopeless paladins are there, and how loving Swordmasters can be. In fact, Lucia is the most durable swordmaster when the spirits come around, and built in Parity for the auras. Durably, she's better than Zihark before affinity is facotred in (as in his already built-up support), and offense isn't too different either, now think about how troublesome it would actually be to get Zihark and her to equal levels considering the exp system of hard mode, and how little exp his parts have...

Keiran might be helpful in his part, but does it make up for how badly he loses part 4 to her?

In fact, she may be the best endgame swordmaster save Mia. With little effort and a little favoritism (which any good characer is entitled to if they can end up good in this game), she ends up basically being Zihark with more durability and a bond. She's the best support for a unit who is heavily implied to be in endgame (Elincia), which gives them both hit and avoid, both being great to have for endgame. Lucia also has the most resistance out of any swordmaster, and also has Parity already built in. Mia might take out auras a lot faster, but she doesn't do it as safely, if it's to be thought about. Not without taking Nihil or Parity from someone else anyways. This also allows one to fit more skills on Lucia while she stays great for the auras with her built in Parity.She also makes use of two great skills for endgame, Adept and Imbue. Adept is always great on a swordmaster. She's not entitled to it of course, but shecan put it to good use if you so choose.

Lucia can easily replace any of your swordmasters in case they got screwed. Certainly the most failsafe.

Edited June 27, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[-Cynthia-]

He barely even doubles the slowest enemies on the map, the healers way back with the boss. But I gave Lucia BEXP favor, lets give it to Keiran. Problem is thanks to his Str growth, using it on him when he maxes HP is a waste as the other points will very likely go to Str, Skill and Def. Even when he maxes Str, chances of it hitting Speed or Luck are equal level, so even considering he needs to get lucky with BEXP. Even considering, it only helps him double the slower end generals. Lucia on hte other hand with the stats I posted above, is capable of doubling all but the speedier types of swordmasters. Their strength isn't too far off either, but Lucia is doubling far more often. On top of that, her skill and speed allow for more skill options like Adept and such, with a killer sword and her crit bonus she has a greater crit chance than he does by miles (thank you Elincia bond). Her damage output is far greater than his.

I'll agree that Lucia is beating Kieran offensively, though Kieran being able to Hammer Generals is a point in his favor, and if they both double or neither double Kieran wins. Lucia is his inferior defensively, she's getting 2-3HKOd, Kieran's getting 4-5HKOd.

As for Evade? Lucia at neutral bio has about 32-50 displayed hit on her on normal ground and without bonding support nearby, nor leadership taken into account. Keiran? 55-somewhere in the 70s. Durably they aren't that far off, but considering she's dodging a lot more, Keiran wins mobi-oh wait! Fucking hedges! Hell, I could bring up hit issues here, but I won't bother.

Lucia only has 73 Avo at base level, Enemies range from 127-167 Hit, she's facing hit rates of 54-94% displayed without factoring in Tibarn's leadership or thickets, like you said you did. Now, if you factor in the authority star bonuses and a thicket boost it's +35 avoid (bond supports don't add avoid). This drops enemy hit rates to 19-59% displayed, which is good, but not as good as Kieran's concrete durability lead. As for hit issues, Kieran doesn't have a lot due to Tibarn's stars and +hit from his affinity.

As for Laguz?...Well I can see how many of them there are, but no stats for some bizarre reason. All I really have to say anyways is Wyrmslayer.

Kieran can get Wyrmslayer post-promotion anyway. Lucia's durability takes a dive here, since Izuka has an authority star and laguz have lots of Hit.

As for Endgame? I think we all know how hopeless paladins are there, and how loving Swordmasters can be. In fact, Lucia is the most durable swordmaster when the spirits come around, and built in Parity for the auras. Durably, she's better than Zihark before affinity is facotred in (as in his already built-up support), and offense isn't too different either, now think about how troublesome it would actually be to get Zihark and her to equal levels considering the exp system of hard mode, and how little exp his parts have...

You actually have a pretty good point here. Zihark is 11 levels behind Lucia and has 8-10 chapters(probably 8) compared to Lucia's 1 pre Part 4 chapter to make up the difference, so if he gains a level a chapter he'd still be behind. Since Zihark is top tier partially due to his part 4 performance, Lucia being comparable to him isn't all bad. He does hit a little harder than she does, and will have a durability lead before Lucia gets her supports in, but he isn't that much better. However, this doesn't apply all that much to Lucia vs. Kieran.

Keiran might be helpful in his part, but does it make up for how badly he loses part 4 to her?

He has 5 chapters pre-Part 4, Lucia has 1. Kind of important. And unlike someone like Makalov, Kieran is a great unit for most of these, he's pretty average in 3-11 and 3-E.

Lucia can easily replace any of your swordmasters in case they got screwed. Certainly the most failsafe.

Stefan is the most failsafe.

Edited June 27, 2009 by -Cynthia-