OMG it's a tier list

[_____]

Does it matter? No character has a growth rate exceeding 100.

[grandjackal]

Does it matter? No character has a growth rate exceeding 100.

Blossom says anyone with a growth rate of at least 70% says you're wrong.

If Blossom effects how much bexp one takes, just give them paragon as well for BEXP. Basically think it like the Knight Ward to a much lesser extent.

[Zkirsche]

Blossom says anyone with a growth rate of at least 70% says you're wrong.

If Blossom effects how much bexp one takes, just give them paragon as well for BEXP. Basically think it like the Knight Ward to a much lesser extent.

Blossom multiplies growths by 1.1 in this game, I think. Meaning Kurth's the only one who can get an > 100% growth (His HP is 95%. 95*1.1 = 104.5%). I don't think paragon affects teh amount of bexp you need.

But the answer to your original question:

could get 2 points for one stat if their growth is above 100%?

Yes.

However, whether bexp will allow it, I'm not so sure.

[grandjackal]

Blossom multiplies growths by 1.1 in this game, I think. Meaning Kurth's the only one who can get an > 100% growth (His HP is 95%. 95*1.1 = 104.5%). I don't think paragon affects teh amount of bexp you need.

But the answer to your original question:

Yes.

However, whether bexp will allow it, I'm not so sure.

Then what was that bullshit RageFox posted way back with Astrid putting it to good use? She said it multiplies growth by 1.5

Secondary note, has anyone realized how good a ledge weapon the Longbow is?

Edited July 2, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[_____]

Blossom says anyone with a growth rate of at least 70% says you're wrong.

If Blossom effects how much bexp one takes, just give them paragon as well for BEXP. Basically think it like the Knight Ward to a much lesser extent.

D'oh. I knew I was forgetting some item/skill that raised growth rates. Also, Paragon doesn't affect BEXP consumption in this game.

[grandjackal]

D'oh. I knew I was forgetting some item/skill that raised growth rates. Also, Paragon doesn't affect BEXP consumption in this game.

Which case, Blossom shouldn't either, which might make it all the more useful.

By the way, anyone notice how good a weapon the Longbow is for ledge shooting? Just got me the boss kill for Nolan on 1-5.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[_____]

By the way, anyone notice how good a weapon the Longbow is for ledge shooting? Just got me the boss kill for Nolan on 1-5.

You're not going to be on the top part of a ledge very often. You have, what, 4 defend chapter in Part 3 and 4?

[grandjackal]

You're not going to be on the top part of a ledge very often. You have, what, 4 defend chapter in Part 3 and 4?

1-7 is the chapter where you rescue prisoners, right? Can help shoot at reinforcements that tail you.

1-E same deal.

3-12 helps shoot at pricks from Taur's side, meaning you can do 3 people's worth of damage each turn rather than two there.

3-13...Well he was already good there. He should be using beastfoe crossbow anyways.

4-The one with Oliver, helps again shoot at tailing reinforcements, and you got plenty of angles to do so on that map (Tormod's area, above the steps from there, etc.)

4-E-1 Leo's accuracy shouldn't be a problem by now, plenty of large gaps to deal with. Either way, Leo probably isn't seeing endgame, but it had to be said.

Perhaps not much indeed, but it's there.

[dondon151]

Which case, Blossom shouldn't either, which might make it all the more useful.

Blossom won't change +3 stats to +4 stats and it won't influence which stats will level up assuming it's a proportional increase in growths and not a flat one.

Even if it were a flat increase, the change would be negligible.

[grandjackal]

Blossom won't change +3 stats to +4 stats and it won't influence which stats will level up assuming it's a proportional increase in growths and not a flat one.

Even if it were a flat increase, the change would be negligible.

This is my question, I'm not saying it will give 4 stat ups, but 3 stat ups, one stat going up by 2 due to a growth being above 100%. How do we know this isn't the case? Has anyone tested this? At all? If it has, then I guess I'm wrong.

Either way, I'd hardly argue a possible 20-40% increase in growths as something to scoff at. BEXP wise if this works, it can at least show that a stat can be made ensured to get a point with an at least 100% growth every time they get bumped up a level by BEXP.

[Mekkah]

I don't think BEXP really rolls RNs based on growth rates themselves, but based on their rankings (1st highest, 1nd highest, etc).

[Narga_Rocks]

Well, I think it has something to do with growth rates, just not in the way it works in a map.

Basically, if we have a roll for 4 different stats, say a, b, c, and d, and those four stats have growth rates w, x, y, and z.

The game probably takes w-a, x-b, y-c, z-d, and whichever 3 are the highest, even if all of them are negative instead of positive, or positive instead of negative, then those 3 are the winners. (Edit: by the way, -3 > -5 since -3 is less negative)

Thus, it is possible for a 100% growth to not get a point. Unlikely, but possible.

If the roll for that 100% growth is 99, then w-a=1, but if you have three 35% growths and each one gets a roll of 20, then the difference is +15 for each and so those would get chosen over the 100% growth, despite all 4 "passing" if it had been normal.

It just seems like more efficient programming to do bexp this way than simply keep rolling. It is possible though unlikely to go through multiple times and never get a third stat, and so it shouldn't be programmed that way.

Also, this seems like the best way to handle forcing 1 stat point when nothing "passed". Whichever number is the least negative, ie: negative but closer to 0 than any other number, this stat is chosen for the single point.

Oh, and if the rn is 0 to 99 like it probably is, then on a map if w-a=0 then that would be a fail too. So the single point when nothing is positive would be whatever is closest to 0 including 0 itself.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[Zkirsche]

Blossom says anyone with a growth rate of at least 70% says you're wrong.

If Blossom effects how much bexp one takes, just give them paragon as well for BEXP. Basically think it like the Knight Ward to a much lesser extent.

I heard Blossom multiplies the growth by 1.1, whether it works with bexp is another matter. I believe Kurth is the only one able to get a >100% growth (It's 104.5% HP with blossom if this is true).

Paragon doesn't affect the amount of bexp you need IIRC.

[Narga_Rocks]

I've never used blossom but based on what others say (and I know PEMN, but when we don't have clear cut data for it we have to base a conclusion on available information) it seems unlikely that blossom is as stupid in this game as PoR. The sheer number of people claiming they always get 4 or more points with blossom just seems to indicate it likely does more than 1.1 like in PoR.

It is still possible that it is only 1.1 x growths and these people were just repeatedly incredibly lucky, but it doesn't seem very likely.

Oh, and assuming that what I said in my previous post is correct for the way bexp levels work, even a growth of 9100% would never yield more than 1 point. It would almost certainly be chosen because w-a would be over 9000 and if the other growths were not over 9000 then it would always be the biggest difference, but it would still get just 1 point because of the way bexp works.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[grandjackal]

I don't think BEXP really rolls RNs based on growth rates themselves, but based on their rankings (1st highest, 1nd highest, etc).

Yet at times it can deter to other growths. A 100% growth would ensure a growth is always there with BEXP anyways. If it can deter even with BEXP, I'm pretty sure it rolls the RNs

I heard Blossom multiplies the growth by 1.1, whether it works with bexp is another matter. I believe Kurth is the only one able to get a >100% growth (It's 104.5% HP with blossom if this is true).

Paragon doesn't affect the amount of bexp you need IIRC.

I hear I hear I hear, I don't hear any "I know for a fact". Ragefox said it herself. Does anyone KNOW that it's 1.1 and not 1.5?

Edited July 2, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[Interceptor]

Nobody "knows" anything. Multiple tests have been done on stat gain with BEXP, and the only solid conclusion tends to be that it favored higher-growth stats over lower growth ones. Blossom has had next to no testing done on it, all anyone has are anecdotes.

[_____]

1-E same deal.

You're pretty much never going to be above enemies here.

3-12 helps shoot at pricks from Taur's side, meaning you can do 3 people's worth of damage each turn rather than two there.

He'd have to run over to Tauroneo first. By then, you'll have half of the enemies you need dead, dead. It's pointless.

3-13...Well he was already good there. He should be using beastfoe crossbow anyways.

Leonardo? Beastfoe crossbow? lol

Also, he can just plug a hole. It's pretty pointless.

4-The one with Oliver, helps again shoot at tailing reinforcements, and you got plenty of angles to do so on that map (Tormod's area, above the steps from there, etc.)

He's sniping, what, 3 guys, at most?

4-E-1 Leo's accuracy shouldn't be a problem by now, plenty of large gaps to deal with. Either way, Leo probably isn't seeing endgame, but it had to be said.

You said it yourself. He's not going to the Endgame.

Perhaps not much indeed, but it's there.

It's not going to affect him at all.

[grandjackal]

Well I got a save currently, I got blossom, and Lyre is one of these cantidates for a possible outcome. So...Let's see how things go.

I'll get ti Ninji's post in a bit.

EDIT: Dammit, appears I don't have blossom. Either way, couple prime cantidates to test out.

Michaiah-Magic and Luck

Leo-Skill

ARAN is a definite with his Strength, Skill and Defense

Lyre-Speed

Makalov-Speed

Rolf-Strength

Soren-Mag and Res

Brom-HP, Luck

Volug: HP, Luck

Mordy: HP, Luck

There are others, but I'm lazy.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[Narga_Rocks]

Nobody "knows" anything. Multiple tests have been done on stat gain with BEXP, and the only solid conclusion tends to be that it favored higher-growth stats over lower growth ones.

Yes, but my theory works with favouring higher-growth stats. With a 85% growth it is far easier to get than a 35% growth. At best, you can score a 35 on that lower growth. There are 49 different rolls that the 85% growth can use to score better. As a result, higher growths are favoured.

If bexp just kept rolling until getting 3 stats, then HP, Str, and Mag would be more favoured than the rest. Higher growths would still matter, because a 20% str growth would still be less likely to get a point than an 80% def growth, but as soon as 3 points are accumulated it would stop. Currently I'm pretty sure if you take 100 tests on a bexp level you are going to get a point much less than 20 times for a 20% growth. Also, if all growths were 100% then you would always get hp, str, mag instead of getting an even distribution if it just rolled until 3 points instead of my theory.

Since people talk about hacking growths, I'd recommend making all growths 100%. If you get hp, str, mag only every time, then it rolls through until getting 3 points. If it distributes more evenly, it doesn't. Under my theory it should be pretty uniform. Like, if you tested 80 times then each stat should be close to 30 for the number of times it went up. Probably within 5, I don't feel like calculating a 95% CI though.

Blossom has had next to no testing done on it, all anyone has are anecdotes.

Yes, but until people give anecdotes like "I'm getting single points or 2 points almost as often as without blossom", I find it unlikely that it is 1.1x. Maybe it is only 1.2 or 1.3, but if it was just 1.1 times then it would not significantly reduce the number of times a unit gets just 1 point or just 2 points.

Although, it is possible people are just keeping quiet about when they only get 1 point with blossom.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[Progenitus]

considering growth rates are through the roof in this game, multiplying by just 1.1 could net in 4 stats or more.

e.g. neph's growth total is 350%. If blossom multiplied growths by 1.1 then her total would now be 385%, or very close to 4.

[grandjackal]

Yes, but my theory works with favouring higher-growth stats. With a 85% growth it is far easier to get than a 35% growth. At best, you can score a 35 on that lower growth. There are 49 different rolls that the 85% growth can use to score better. As a result, higher growths are favoured.

If bexp just kept rolling until getting 3 stats, then HP, Str, and Mag would be more favoured than the rest. Higher growths would still matter, because a 20% str growth would still be less likely to get a point than an 80% def growth, but as soon as 3 points are accumulated it would stop. Currently I'm pretty sure if you take 100 tests on a bexp level you are going to get a point much less than 20 times for a 20% growth. Also, if all growths were 100% then you would always get hp, str, mag instead of getting an even distribution if it just rolled until 3 points instead of my theory.

Since people talk about hacking growths, I'd recommend making all growths 100%. If you get hp, str, mag only every time, then it rolls through until getting 3 points. If it distributes more evenly, it doesn't. Under my theory it should be pretty uniform. Like, if you tested 80 times then each stat should be close to 30 for the number of times it went up. Probably within 5, I don't feel like calculating a 95% CI though.

No dur, that's the point I'm trying to make here.

What I WANT tested is if Blossom boosts growths by 1.5 and it's simple to see. If it does, give Blossom to someone with growths 70% or above. If in a BEXP level they gain 2 points in one of those growths (as half of 70 is 35, 70+35=105), then Blossom boosts growths by 1.5 and there is a new use with it in a sudden boost-up for some characters.

Yes, but until people give anecdotes like "I'm getting single points or 2 points almost as often as without blossom", I find it unlikely that it is 1.1x. Maybe it is only 1.2 or 1.3, but if it was just 1.1 times then it would not significantly reduce the number of times a unit gets just 1 point or just 2 points.

Although, it is possible people are just keeping quiet about when they only get 1 point with blossom.

Now ask with how people think blossom works and how BEXP works, why would anyone bother to test it? This is why I brought it up, no one's tested it.

Basically I want to see if it boosts growths by 1.5 because if it does, I think we got a semi-Knight Ward here. It would mean those with a 70% growth is at least assured a point in that stat every time with a BEXP level bump with Blossom.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[Narga_Rocks]

considering growth rates are through the roof in this game, multiplying by just 1.1 could net in 4 stats or more.

e.g. neph's growth total is 350%. If blossom multiplied growths by 1.1 then her total would now be 385%, or very close to 4.

While that is true, I've had totals of 350 or more get me 1 point rather frequently. I resetted 2-E after Elincia got 3 points total in 2 levels. Her total is 385%! She was 4.7 points under the average in those 2 levels. I've had Marcia and her 345% total get me 5 points in 3 levels before, 5.35 under her average.

Basically, that Nephenee with 385 would be just as likely to do annoying stuff like that as Elincia without Blossom is. But how often do people say that their blossom user keeps getting single or double points?

A growth total of like 450 or more would make it much less likely for that to happen, and that can only be achieved by something better than 1.1.

To pretty boi wolf, your blossom testing really needs to be done on a map because the way they likely programmed bexp would make it impossible to get 2 points to anything. Also, as I said in one of my other posts even 100% would not guarantee a point if they programmed bexp levels with good programming methods.

On a map, however, 100% should very much guarantee 1 point all the time.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[grandjackal]

LOOK!

Here's how it goes! Give a unit with a 70% growth. Give the fucker blossom and give him or her Blossom. If in ANY of the levels does not gain a stat in those specific stats, then it's not 1.5

The goddamn point I want to make here is of the possible boosts it could give. Example.

Lyre. She has a 70% speed growth. With Blossom, you would be ASSURED a point in speed every BEXP level. This would be to give her a boost in speed without risk. Same goes for Makalov.

Rolf having problems huting things early on? Slap Blossom on him, give him a bit of BEXP, his strength will be assured to go up a point.

THIS is what I want to know. Jeez, I don't care if BEXP favors one stat or another, I wanna see if it always gives a point (possibly even 2) for every level of BEXP to a 100% or greater growth. Goddammit people...

Speaking of blossom, any reason NOT to give it to a laguz, considering they level so damn slow regardless?

To Narga's response: LIKELY programmed? Yes, it could be the case it won't give a +2 boost BEXP wise, but how the hell do we KNOW?

Besides, if it does boost growths by 1.5, I'm more than aware it would have field use.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[Interceptor]

Yes, but my theory works with favouring higher-growth stats.

I wasn't saying that your theory was stupid, I was just pointing out that this has been done to death to no useful result. Other people have had the same theory as you before, including me, plus ones you perhaps have not thought of, and have been unable to either prove or disprove it conclusively. Hacking the game is probably required, as you said.

Yes, but until people give anecdotes like "I'm getting single points or 2 points almost as often as without blossom", I find it unlikely that it is 1.1x. Maybe it is only 1.2 or 1.3, but if it was just 1.1 times then it would not significantly reduce the number of times a unit gets just 1 point or just 2 points.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "fact". There is a reason why people fling around "PEMN" in Fire Emblem debates. I don't even trust my OWN anecdotes. Confirmation bias is a real thing.

[Narga_Rocks]

I wasn't saying that your theory was stupid, I was just pointing out that this has been done to death to no useful result. Other people have had the same theory as you before, including me, plus ones you perhaps have not thought of, and have been unable to either prove or disprove it conclusively. Hacking the game is probably required, as you said.

I know others have had it before. I saw it about a month ago on either this site or gamefaqs and have decided it makes the most sense. There may be other theories, but I think this one is better than "the game rolls until it gets three stats and stops". Even Micaiah would be unlikely to get res very often on bexp levels if the game just did that. I'm sure there are other theories I haven't though of, too, and one of them may be the correct one, but I'm mostly just trying to state that whatever the game actually does, it is unlikely that it just rolls until it gets 3 then stops.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "fact". There is a reason why people fling around "PEMN" in Fire Emblem debates. I don't even trust my OWN anecdotes. Confirmation bias is a real thing.

Yeah, I know.

I think hacking is required. However, as long as pretty boi wolf drops the whole bexp idea from what he is shouting I think it would work somewhat. If a 70% growth with blossom ever does not get a point on a level up during a map, then blossom is clearly not 1.5x. Now, if blossom is 1.3x then with a 91% it could be a lot of tests with getting a point before we could stumble on a failure and know that blossom is not 1.5x, and if blossom is 1.4x then at 98% I'm not sure we'd ever hit on a failure. On the other hand, if a 70% growth ever manages to hit 2 points then we know blossom does more than 1.4x. Again, though, there would be just a 5% chance of hitting 2 points instead of 1 (if blossom is 1.5x) so it could take equally long before managing to get 2.