Code Geass R2

[Esau of Isaac]

But you're not looking hard enough into it.

At the end, when the characters are talking, only the mouth is moving but their face is completely fixed. You don't even see their eyes blinking. (Examples: 2:19 when Charles is talking or 2:12 where his mouth isn't even moving).

You can't deny that it is quite mediocre for a 2008 production. (Also, one example of good animation for comparison's sake: Bounen no Xamdou)

I am right now denying that it is a mediocre production, because you're struggling to pick out points where the animation lags. The fact that you are even arguing this against me when the production values for the show overall are absolutely astronomical is mind-boggling.

I can understand where you don't like the animation style, but the quality of the animation overall is absolutely terrific.

Sorry for my bad English (which isn't my mother tongue.)

I was saying that the fight scenes were good because the staff in charge of them was different from the one doing the characters' animations. Yes, that was a positive comment from me for once.

Of course, the character animations have their good moments too. I mean, I can hunt down specific scenes if you'd like, but overall what are you looking for here?

Come on, the show practically lives off the stuff! I've already mentionned Lelouch's talk about killing the Elevens and the Geass going out of control at that exact moment. What about Shirley being coincidently in the right place to see Lelouch's face (Mao's arc)? Or when Lelouch found out about Suzaku’s identity, when his mecha was cut exactly so that it would show the guy’s face, but not hurt him or stop the mecha from moving. Or when Suzaku disarmed Mao's bomb, synchronising with it and cutting the wire at the exact moment... And the list could go on indefinitely.

Now please tell me again that Code Geass doesn't rely on coincidences.

None of any of the coincidences that occur in Code Geass are at all out of the ordinary in anime. If you're complaining about those, then by extension you're probably complaining about the exact same thing in several of your own favorite anime.

And what was the point since she had no personnality other than "I agree with Charles." She was also one of the reason why Lelouch wanted to take revenge against Charles. It kinda defeats the whole point of season 1. IMO, that just shows that Sunrise wanted to take one direction in season 1 but took a completely different one in season 2.

The point was for Lelouch to find stronger resolve in his cause by realizing that even his mother, whom he held in such high regard, was against him.

Seriously, I have no idea where you are coming from in complaining about this. If they did go a different direction with the anime (which isn't necessarily true since twists like this are common all of the time), then what makes that bad? People make changes to their work from episode to episode, minute to minute, and second to second. I find no problem with it unless it's bad or uninteresting, and neither of those things really describe that particular scene.

Then, it's alright as long as it looks cool? What kind of argument is that?

The argument that when I watch something, I like having fun. It was contrived, even if it did fit in the Code Geass Universe, but it was fine because Jeremiah is the fucking shit, and getting to see more of him being badass is a privilege in and of itself.

Okay, so I'm going to rephrase what I wanted to say. How many times did they use the 'thought-to-be-dead character' card (i.e. Person A seems to die, Person B is overcome by grief, Person A is actually not dead)? It's alright if that does not happen very often but it becomes very silly and boring when it's used more that ten times

It was probably used a total of...seven or eight times.

So you're basically saying that being two inches from each other is perfectly normal when talking to somebody?

No, I'm saying that playing an act that Shirley's death was necessary and that he did a good job wasn't out of the ordinary.

[Marthur]

I am right now denying that it is a mediocre production, because you're struggling to pick out points where the animation lags.

I'm not really struggling. And what were you expecting exactly? You wanted me me to post several hundred pictures for each episode? Sorry, but watching Code Geass a second time would just be a waste of time. XP

And at least I'm posting pictures to prove my points. You don't.

The fact that you are even arguing this against me when the production values for the show overall are absolutely astronomical is mind-boggling.

What are you exactly basing this on?

I can understand where you don't like the animation style, but the quality of the animation overall is absolutely terrific.

You're mixing up art style and animation.

Art style = How things are drawn.

Animation = How they create the illusion of movement.

So I'm sorry but, when a character's mouth isn't moving when he is speaking (that, plus the fact their faces are static, and their eyes don't blink) I can objectively say that the animation isn't good. Sure It's nothing as bad as

but it's nothing stellar either.

None of any of the coincidences that occur in Code Geass are at all out of the ordinary in anime.

Once again, that's a terrible generalization you're making here...

If what you said was true, I would have stopped watching anime ages ago.

If you're complaining about those, then by extension you're probably complaining about the exact same thing in several of your own favorite anime.

Nope, because good anime almost never rely on coincidences.

Seriously, I have no idea where you are coming from in complaining about this. If they did go a different direction with the anime (which isn't necessarily true since twists like this are common all of the time), then what makes that bad?

It leads to a lot of contradictions.

Example:

Direction 1: Jeremiah kills Lelouch's minions. They probably originally wanted to make him his enemy.

Direction 2: But they suddenly decided on something else and made him his ally, which of course was completely WTF.

Now just imagine this on a larger scale.

but it was fine because Jeremiah is the fucking shit, and getting to see more of him being badass is a privilege in and of itself.

That's just your opinion.

From an objective point of view, it still makes no sense.

Edited January 13, 2009 by Marthur

[Esau of Isaac]

And what were you expecting exactly? You wanted me me to post several hundred pictures for each episode? Sorry, but watching Code Geass a second time would just be a waste of time. XP

And at least I'm posting pictures to prove my points. You don't.

I'm not posting pictures because I don't have the episodes anymore, and had to delete them to make room for my computer.

But I need to watch the series again, so I'll comb through a few episodes and point out where I find the anime to be pretty high quality when I feel like it.

What are you exactly basing this on?

The high animation quality?

You're mixing up art style and animation.

Art style = How things are drawn.

Animation = How they create the illusion of movement.

So I'm sorry but, when a character's mouth isn't moving when he is speaking (that, plus the fact their faces are static, and their eyes don't blink) I can objectively say that the animation isn't good. Sure It's nothing as bad as Gandou Musashi but it's nothing stellar either.

And I'm saying that you're looking at the opposite spectrum; most of my favorite anime have several fuck-ups throughout, but overall have good animation. Does or does not this one scene outweigh the well-animated scenes?

Once again, that's a terrible generalization you're making here...

If what you said was true, I would have stopped watching anime ages ago.

List your favorite anime, and I'm pretty damn sure that if I've seen it, I can point out some completely unlikely occurrences happening in more than one area.

Nope, because good anime almost never rely on coincidences.

See above.

And fuck do I hate the God damn rolleyes smiley.

It leads to a lot of contradictions.

Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

That's just your opinion.

That's what this entire fucking argument is about.

From an objective point of view, it still makes no sense.

It fits in the anime fine enough to me. But then objectively, pretty much anything that occurs in anime is probably fucking ridiculous.

[Marthur]

I'm not posting pictures because I don't have the episodes anymore, and had to delete them to make room for my computer.

YouTube links are fine too.

The high animation quality?

Yes. Especially since I explained why it wasn't good and also posted an example with far better animation. (Note: Most of Production I.G.'s anime are also fine examples in terms of excellent animation.)

And I'm saying that you're looking at the opposite spectrum; most of my favorite anime have several fuck-ups throughout, but overall have good animation. Does or does not this one scene outweigh the well-animated scenes?

It's not the only scene. It's just one example.

List your favorite anime, and I'm pretty damn sure that if I've seen it, I can point out some completely unlikely occurrences happening in more than one area.

Legend of the Galactic Heroes.

Mononoke.

Kino no Tabi.

PlanetES.

Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

And you’re going to tell me it doesn’t in Code Geass ? >.>

That's what this entire fucking argument is about.

I believe I’ve been trying to be as objective as I could (Sure I wasn’t when I was talking about the story and characters - Much of what I said is based on the fact that I’ve seen series with better stories or character development though – but everything else pretty much is.)

But then objectively, pretty much anything that occurs in anime is probably fucking ridiculous.

Because it’s called fiction. You could say that for pretty much any media : TV series, movies, books… What’s important here is how well the story (despite being unrealistic) develops and how credible it is.

Edited January 14, 2009 by Marthur

[Esau of Isaac]

Yes. Especially since I explained why it wasn't good and also posted an example with far better animation. (Note: Most of Production I.G.'s anime are also fine examples in terms of excellent animation.)

Let us get this utterly straight before you make me trudge through the series to pull up animation that I find terrific; what kind of animation are you saying is horrible? Overall animation quality?

Be specific.

It's not the only scene. It's just one example.

There are few scenes that I ever noticed that were bad in quality, and several that were pretty damn well made.

Legend of the Galactic Heroes.

Mononoke.

Kino no Tabi.

PlanetES.

I've seen none of these. So I can't really work with them.

And you’re going to tell me it doesn’t in Code Geass ? >.>

No, I'm going to tell you that sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.

I believe I’ve been trying to be as objective as I could (Sure I wasn’t when I was talking about the story and characters - Much of what I said is based on the fact that I’ve seen series with better stories or character development though – but everything else pretty much is.)

The only portion of your entire argument that is objective the animation quality, and even then you're utilizing tidbits of the show and not the entire show in and of itself.

Because it’s called fiction. You could say that for pretty much any media : TV series, movies, books… What’s important here is how the story (despite being unrealistic) is built and how credible it is.

That doesn't matter. You don't talk of objective nonsense and then try to apply it as though it's law to fiction; there's a degree of suspension of disbelief that has to occur, or everything is fucking ridiculously un-fun to watch.

There are points in the series that make no sense, and there are points in the series that are pretty sensible within the boundaries of how far I could accept the explanations given, and Jeremiah surviving isn't that out there, especially since his death was never explicitly shown and he was a character that was semi-popular and could use a bit of development.

The story of Code Geass is pretty damn unrealistic, but it works fine that way in more than one point; Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, one of my favorite anime, is consistently unrealistic. The characters do things that are outright stated to be physically impossible by nigh-omnipotent beings. But doesn't it matter? Fuck no, it's entertaining to see how far they can take reality and slap it around like a stay-at-home mother, and then still be interesting enough to have enemies that can match them. Sometimes the more entertaining portions of anime don't come from adhering to anime; in fact, sometimes it's more entertaining to wonder how the characters will fuck it all up and do what they shouldn't be able to do.

[TheEnd]

Trainwreck animu is trainwreck.

So bad it's good, etc.

[Marthur]

Let us get this utterly straight before you make me trudge through the series to pull up animation that I find terrific; what kind of animation are you saying is horrible? Overall animation quality?

Be specific.

Character animation.

The only portion of your entire argument that is objective the animation quality, and even then you're utilizing tidbits of the show and not the entire show in and of itself.

The series does have fillers, coincidences, WTFs and useless characters. It's a fact (so it's objective) and it also concerns the whole show.

I'm just going to compare it to Legend of the Galactic Heroes: 110 Episodes and absolutely no fillers, more than a hundred characters and 95% of them are interesting (while Code Geass has what? 10% of interesting characters? And I'm being generous there because I really don't find that Lelouch or Suzaku are deep characters), absolutely no WTFs: everything that is said is carefully explained, and the story (which is epic [and I'm saying epic in the litteral sense, not the one that is used on most forums as an Internet catch phrase]) flows naturally without looking disjointed. Sure, the animation is a bit shabby (can't really be held against the show because it's old) but the quality increases through each season, while the animation in Code Geass simply kept decreasing near the end.

That doesn't matter. You don't talk of objective nonsense and then try to apply it as though it's law to fiction; there's a degree of suspension of disbelief that has to occur, or everything is fucking ridiculously un-fun to watch.

Not necessarily. For instance, PlanetES and Legend of the Galactic Heroes are both set in the future, so there are really nothing that is completely unbelievable and both of them were both very entertaining (to me at least).

The story of Code Geass is pretty damn unrealistic, but it works fine that way in more than one point; Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, one of my favorite anime, is consistently unrealistic.

TTGL belongs to the parody genre. You believe I will criticize it for not being realistic? Not at all.

Unfortunately, Code Geass doesn't belong to this genre, so I can't really say the same for that show.

The characters do things that are outright stated to be physically impossible by nigh-omnipotent beings. But doesn't it matter? Fuck no, it's entertaining to see how far they can take reality and slap it around like a stay-at-home mother, and then still be interesting enough to have enemies that can match them. Sometimes the more entertaining portions of anime don't come from adhering to anime; in fact, sometimes it's more entertaining to wonder how the characters will fuck it all up and do what they shouldn't be able to do.

I never said it wasn't entertaining (I actually had quite a lot of fun discussing all the fucked up things that were going on in the show with people that shared the same opinion as me), I said it wasn't good. And TheEnd summed this up better than me: It's precisely because this show is so bad that it can be enjoyed ; saying that it is deep or meaningful is just pretentious.