Penitent Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Where did you get that idea from? Soren's tactical skill doesn't improve ones battle skill. It's like saying Soren's tactics will improve Ike's power in battle. Willpower, however, does. Wait, by battle skill do you mean in the field, fighting as a general? Because that definitely is irrelevant, seeing as we're talking about a war, which is inherently a large-scale conflict. I suppose it's that we're not talking about a battle, we're talking about a war with either side at the head. One with several battles, or dozens, or even hundreds if the war gets crappy enough. The leaders of the war can be anything, but the soldiers are still human, with families and friends and other things in life they'd like to do as well after the war. If your leader's a butthole, you're going to feel more inclined to desert and not ruin your chances after getting so far. If your leader's nice, has done well for you, and you know she's being honest and won't screw you over, then why not hold out for her? By equal, we mean that they're equal in power. What do you mean "we"? :P To be frank, the opening post was vague, partly because this isn't meant to be fussed over as maniacally as some may take it. For me at any rate, it sounds much more like they're numerically even and have experienced similar training.This must mean that they're equal in power. Consider the soldiers of Daein in FE10, now. They were stronger than the ones in FE9, right? I'm not saying this on personal opinion, I'm saying this on what was said in the game. Right after the chapter with the bridge I believe. This was simply because of willpower. They grew stronger because of willpower. So now, the soldiers of Micaiah are stronger than the soldiers of Soren. Equal, you think? Nope. Micaiah's soldiers are stronger than Soren's so that's contradicting the first sentence. Let's not try to strain the situation too hard by assuming scenarios at random and judge them on base level, otherwise we will just make one big, pointless mess. Stop hitting that Y button, you're not going to get every little stat on every little soldier or spot out which ones are holding vulneraries.Say they're the soldiers of Crimea or Begnion. What do you think now? The main reason the soldiers in Daein love her so is because she saved their country. That is the reason why they're fanatics. Not because of her powers. They would, but even if I'm wrong, it would never, ever be as much as in Daein. Again, why would they be? There's no scenario here, and it'd probably be best if there weren't.Plus, why wouldn't they have faith in Soren? I'm sure the people would know about his skills and have great faith in him also. Because Soren is not a leader. The only reason he ever did any of what he did was for Ike's favour. If Micaiah gave so much as one blow to the morale of Soren's army, he wouldn't be able to inspire them, give them kind words with the conviction and hope they need to hear and feel - it's just who he is.Soren's a great tactician, but he's only filling in half the role. Micaiah isn't as good a tactician (she's still good), but she covers all the functions of a military leader. I'm actually not Soren, like many other people, so there's no way I can comment on this. The best plan possible however would be one in which he'd minimize the losses in the event of a prediction and act accordingly. Durr-de-hurr-hurr. :P I'm with you if you're saying "If anyone can do it, it's Soren". But that there is the question: 'if'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seph Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 (edited) Crap, I'm getting gangbanged again. I hate this. This happened way too much before. I'm out. Edited January 5, 2009 by Julius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamara Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 (edited) Soren's tactical skills still have nothing to do with the battle skill.What? Battle skills aren't the only thing that decides the outcome. Or where you planning to put both armies on a field and let them hack and slash eachother to pieces? A war isn't won with one simple battle. I'm sure Soren will prefer to battle somewhere the surroundings are in the favor of his army. He'll plan a safe route to whatever place that needs to be captured, taking key points along the way. Taking advantage of the surroundings. And using clever strategies involving hot air balloons, glowing moss and lots of archers or something. That's what tactics are for. Edited January 5, 2009 by Tamara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Jam Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Soren uses anima magic. Micaiah uses light magic. Anima magic beats light magic. Therefore, all else being equal, Soren beats Micaiah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penitent Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 (edited) It's not a case of one-on-one, Paper Jam. It's a question of who's the better military leader. One side could beat the other without either two actually fighting for all it mattered: it's definitely not something you can call the battle on. Edited January 5, 2009 by Penitent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Jam Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 (edited) It's not a case of one-on-one, Paper Jam. It's a question of who's the better military leader. One side could beat the other without either two actually fighting for all it mattered: it's definitely not something you can call the battle on. Exactly. Soren and Micaiah are pretty evenly matched in terms of military leadership, though Micaiah is more charismatic and Soren is more cunning. The battle will probably be decided by Soren and Micaiah themselves, not by their men. Of course, Soren will have to prove to his men that he is a great strategist, because while everybody knew about Elincia and Ike, nobody even knew the name of that boy in the black robe who was always at Ike's side. On the other hand, he has snatched victory from the jaws of defeat in the past (most notably during the Mad King's War, in which at first he wanted to fight on Daein's side because Daein was so likely to win...) And Micaiah did the same thing against Begnion, except that she never even considered siding with Begnion. Kind of ironic that they were both heirs to the kingdoms they fought and defeated... but that's a different story. So, yeah. As military leaders, they're fairly evenly matched, and a battle between them will boil down to how good they are as fighters. Edited January 5, 2009 by Paper Jam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penitent Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Exactly. Soren and Micaiah are pretty evenly matched in terms of military leadership, though Micaiah is more charismatic and Soren is more cunning. The battle will probably be decided by Soren and Micaiah themselves, not by their men. Precisely so: in leadership terms.I still don't understand why they themselves have to fight each other; it's not just a battle, it's a war. Of course, Soren will have to prove to his men that he is a great strategist, because while everybody knew about Elincia and Ike, nobody even knew the name of that boy in the black robe who was always at Ike's side. On the other hand, he has snatched victory from the jaws of defeat in the past (most notably during the Mad King's War, in which at first he wanted to fight on Daein's side because Daein was so likely to win...) That's the interesting part. The big question right now is whether or not Soren can become enough of a leader and people-person through his own encouragement, not anyone else's. If he can't, then Micaiah has already won; if he could then it's still up for play. I personally don't think he's able to. He's not had enough encouragement, at least in Radiant Dawn, to accept people. He'd lose concern for the war and what little empathy he had for his men in general, and thus grow weary of it. It's just not in him, and not something that hardship can force out of him. The only option I see for him - if it's even allowed in the line of thinking we're following - is to set up a puppet leader so he can work like he did under Ike while the figurehead does the work. After all, if most of Soren's army abandons him, then it's him plus whatever people are left against Micaiah and....well, many many many many many more people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnell Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 While Micaiah definitely will have troops with higher moral, I think Soren would win overall. Not only does Soren use significantly more brilliant strategies (c'mon, using Ranulf as a decoy for another decoy) but he also uses no emotion in his plans. Micaiah's empathy is a double edged sword. It can empower her troops, but may cloud her judgment in making a decision. Soren, however, can whip out brilliant plans that are amazingly effective within minutes. While his tactics may not be honorable, they are stronger. Soren wins by a hair, but I can't wait to see the fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamara Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I personally don't think he's able to. He's not had enough encouragement, at least in Radiant Dawn, to accept people. He'd lose concern for the war and what little empathy he had for his men in general, and thus grow weary of it. It's just not in him, and not something that hardship can force out of him. The only option I see for him - if it's even allowed in the line of thinking we're following - is to set up a puppet leader so he can work like he did under Ike while the figurehead does the work. Yes, Soren needs a good reason to fight, or he isn't going to bother. He isn't concerned about honor, status, the well being of others who are not Ike etc. There really isn't much to motivate him. It's either Ike or his own survival. I doubt Micaiah can stop Ike and Soren when they fight on the same side and if Soren only has to protect his own life, he'll disappear instead of starting a war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral "Bull" Halsey Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 It's really hard to determine characteristics seeing their potentials... Also, this should have a poll as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I like Micaiah, but I have to say Soren would win, heh as much more experience in tactics than Micaiah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 kinda sums it up for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Judy Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Soren looks like a girl... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamara Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 You noticed? The first time I played Fire Emblem together with my brother he kept mistaking Soren for a girl. "Move Soren and Rhys behind the human wall you just formed" "She's Soren right?" "He. And yes." ... "Is her magic powerful?" "His. And yes." ... "She'll probably die if I attack that unit" "He. And if he dies I will kick you." But you know, if he put some effort into it, he could probably look just as pretty as Micaiah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Judy Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Actually...it took me a while to realise Soren was a guy. o_o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamara Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I thought it was obvious. Fire Emblem girls usually have better haircuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Judy Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I thought it was obvious. Fire Emblem girls usually have better haircuts. Yeah I know...it should have been obvious but I was really surprised to find out he was a guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral "Bull" Halsey Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 @ Mekkah's Picture: ROFL LMAO. So obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 @ Mekkah's picture: Except that Soren can't DA either (Without activating Adept), so he's just a liar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penitent Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 (edited) Durr-de-hurr-hurr. :V Though I wonder if it counts as a point for Micaiah if Soren's masculinity is in question. :P Edited January 6, 2009 by Penitent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamara Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) @ Mekkah's picture: Except that Soren can't DA either (Without activating Adept), so he's just a liar. His speed is higher than Micaiah's, so he DA's more often. They really ruined his speed in RD >_< Though I wonder if it counts as a point for Micaiah if Soren's masculinity is in question. If we're doing the "anything Micaiah can do, Soren can do better" thing, I think the point should go to Soren. He's a trap. Not a Lucius level trap, but a trap nontheless. Edited January 7, 2009 by Tamara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrenchcoatPixie Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 It was SO WEIRD to come into this thread and see some random stupid thing I drew all of a sudden... @ Mekkah's picture: Except that Soren can't DA either (Without activating Adept), so he's just a liar. Yeah, when I was making that, I actually went and looked up both of their speed growths to see if I was just talking shit, and...it turns out they're both 35%. And yet, Soren constantly double attacks for me in RD, and Micaiah doesn't. YMMV, I guess? As to the actual topic...if it's a single battle or a short campaign, Soren would win on tactics. Over a lengthy campaign, I do think Micaiah's ability to inspire her troops would let her take the lead. On the other hand, surely Soren's early victories would buoy his army's morale, and Micaiah's charismatic influence would have to be set against their early losses... Hrmm. I dunno. Give Soren's army a photogenic figurehead, though, and it's all over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reikken Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 (edited) lolw1n @ comic and no, there are differences in their spd. Soren may not be double attacking on hard mode, but he can do it on normal. They have the same spd growth, but Soren's base is 2 higher than Micaiah's average at the same level (...or 4 if you transfer spd). Soren also has a lot more time to gain exp. Micaiah spends most of her time catching up to Soren. Soren uses his to widen the level difference again. Then Soren cap rams several stats very quickly, so giving him bexp level ups then gets his spd up much faster than it would normally rise. From there, he'll cap speed before reaching lv 20, and then he can do something else Micaiah can't do (until much later): promote! Edited January 18, 2009 by Reikken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 It was SO WEIRD to come into this thread and see some random stupid thing I drew all of a sudden... It's a pretty damn good "random stupid thing" and suits this thread perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrenchcoatPixie Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 It's a pretty damn good "random stupid thing" and suits this thread perfectly. Aw, shucks, sir or madam. Trash-talkin' Micaiah ain't just a pleasure; it's a solemn duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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