H5 Tier list topic

[Rodykitty]

If it'll spark some discussion to see if he deserves that spot, I'll go ahead and move him up.

As for Maria, nobody really said anything about her. Though thinking about it now, I could probably put Linde where she is at (since Linde joins roughly close to Maria, has far better growths in almost every area, even in HP and Def, and a D in staves compared to E isn't much of an advantage Maria has over Linde), then lower Maria.

[Dat Nick]

A. Warp staff and good units will allow you to save Medea and pals. "Keep all units alive including Medea and pals" playthrough is possible.

That's the thing, though. Keeping more than two alive REALLY doesn't justify a warp staff.

Midia? Maybe if you're hellbent on getting Astria... but then why would you want Astria when killing him nets you EXP and you don't miss out on his Wyrmslayer?

...You get the wyrmslayer if you kill Astram, but you don't if you kill him? Eh?

[Rodykitty]

I think he means that killing Astram still gets you the Wrymslayer.

Still, I already changed the tier positions based on the fact that two characters of choosing can survive even if you don't warp.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

That's the thing, though. Keeping more than two alive REALLY doesn't justify a warp staff.

...You get the wyrmslayer if you kill Astram, but you don't if you kill him? Eh?

Agreed, which is why point B exists and the reasoning of why Dolph and Boah are the 2 best candidates for those stats. Just thought I should state point A anyway.

Darth pretty much said it. Astram drops the Wyrmslayer and his other weapon is a Silver sword so you're not missing much if you kill Astram.

Edited January 15, 2009 by Levin

[Dat Nick]

This just in...

C21:

Wyvern 6:

46 (47) HP

27 atk [For javs, brave lance guy has 3 less]

103 hit [88 brave lance]

18 AS

12 (13) def

3 res

lvl 8s have about 2 more HP, 1 more strength and AS

General:

57 HP

27 (28) atk

94 (95) hit

10 (11) AS

17 def

5 res

Sniper, killer bow

46 HP

27 atk

127 hit

18 AS

8 def

3 res

Paladin:

46 HP

26 atk

94 (95) hit

16 AS

11 def

7 res

Mage:

30 HP

31 (32) atk

116 hit

9 AS

5 def

6 res

Boss: An ugly bald guy who's name I can't find out because Serenes is dead:

50 HP

34 atk

112 hit

19 AS

13 def

6 res

...Hymir doubles a grand total of...none of thesem outside the general. He might kill the general, but he won't OHK him, and Hymir is then dead meat back. I daresay back to bottom.

Oh yeah, and the H5 enemy stats on GFAQS keep dying, so I should put them on here.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage....2919&page=3

There's the archive if anybody's nice enough to save me the trouble.

Edited January 20, 2009 by MightyZagaro

[Rodykitty]

About Ymir... He's not comparing to your best units that *can* double things, but I feel that he's also better than a lot of other units that are getting doubled.

I think Low Tier is appropriate based on that.

[Dat Nick]

just one thing about moving characters up from bottom tier just for curate usage, Linde in this case:

Anybody can make a good healer, so you kind of have to apply it to everybody. If you DID apply it to everybody, then bottom tier wouldn't exist at all. Eliminating bottom tier is kinda pointless, so staves>bottom tier should only really apply to units who can do it without a curate slot. just move Maria to bottom of low...though she really should be above Etzel [same staff rank, only thing either is good for, only Maria has a lot more time to get staff rank]

[Dr. Tarrasque]

By the time you have the Reclass function available, you have 3 Curate/Cleric slots which is quite enough.

The only time Maria isn't taking a Cleric/Curate slot is during the time she's an allied unit in chapter 10, after that, she takes the Curate/Cleric slot the completion of the chapter just gave you if she's to remain a Curate/Cleric.

just move Maria to bottom of low...though she really should be above Etzel [same staff rank, only thing either is good for, only Maria has a lot more time to get staff rank]

No. You've said it yourself, Maria's only good for her staff rank, which just about any1 of the Class set A and Female units can get before she's even recruited. What happens before and after promotion though? Before promotion she's taking up a slot which you could put to better use with another fighter or chip damage (indirect attacks) unit than a 3rd healer that's total garbage since your units are still struggling to 1 round enemies.

Etzel comes when you've got a solid team coming along that can actually 1 round units so giving up a spot to him so you can boost his WEXP is of little consequence. His combat (B in tomes means better magic to use and being a Male with a B in tomes means 3x damage to Dragon Knights with Excalibur) and durability is also better than Maria's unless you completely went out of your freaking to mind to level her up, use a Master Seal, leveled up her like 10 more times AND got RNG blessed.

Not to mention that recruiting him means you're giving your main units more EXP due to the access of his gaiden chapter. The reinforcements in Maria's chapter can be difficult and you're pretty much required to deal with them since going into that fortress will always result in some units getting left behind and raped by the reinforcements.

Edited January 21, 2009 by Levin

[Rodykitty]

just one thing about moving characters up from bottom tier just for curate usage, Linde in this case:

Anybody can make a good healer, so you kind of have to apply it to everybody. If you DID apply it to everybody, then bottom tier wouldn't exist at all. Eliminating bottom tier is kinda pointless, so staves>bottom tier should only really apply to units who can do it without a curate slot. just move Maria to bottom of low...though she really should be above Etzel [same staff rank, only thing either is good for, only Maria has a lot more time to get staff rank]

Alright then. I never really wanted Etzel in Low tier anyway. I'll move Maria into bottom tier as well.

[Dat Nick]

By the time you have the Reclass function available, you have 3 Curate/Cleric slots which is quite enough.

That's the thing, though: The logic still applies. Gordin and Jagen can make just as good curates as, say, Cord/Caesar, if they could be ones, so no matter how many free slots there are, Nobody really outclasses anybody as a cleric, and thus, you have to apply Staves>bottom tier to everybody, which would make there not even BE a bottom tier.

[Rodykitty]

I have no problem putting healers being in bottom tier. Takes away focus on Warp Staff, but that's probably for the better of the tier list anyway.

I would want Curate Gordin above Maria anyway, but he's already much higher so that covers that.

Edited January 21, 2009 by FE3 Player

[Dat Nick]

I'm saying that to prevent Linda moving up, rather than keeping Maria down.

[Rodykitty]

I don't see why she would want to move up anyway. Her join time and lagging behind in level and having no defense growth is going to keep her where she's at. I'll likely lower her within low tier, but her growths and ability to level up as healer is to me what's keeping her out of bottom tier.

Maria is worse though. At least Linda gets speed which will help her stop being doubled faster. Maria is always going to be doubled no matter how leveled up she gets.

[Sylvan]

Being traied as a curate for a mage isn't the same as being trained as a curate for a non-mage. Curate has magic growth, so for *some* mages they can still get levels as a curate. However, for physical units, training them as a staff user prevents them from getting str points.

e.g, you can train a low-level mage as a healer and then once they can attack, get them back into mage class. However, you can't do this for a physical unit, as any levels they gained as a healer won't be worth the negated str growth.

That's why staff users should be out of bottom tier, and not the rest, since they can level with staves, where as others may not. . . However, despite me saying that, I don't think that should change anything, because even with the added exp of healing behind a mage, most of them still suck too much for it to affect them in any way.

[Pitbuller26]

One minor question. Where's Frey?

[Rodykitty]

Being traied as a curate for a mage isn't the same as being trained as a curate for a non-mage. Curate has magic growth, so for *some* mages they can still get levels as a curate. However, for physical units, training them as a staff user prevents them from getting str points.

This isn't a WiFi tier list where the goal is to max stats. If somebody is being trained as a Mage or Curate, they're likely going to stay as one, and most of the major ones are magical units anyway.

That's why staff users should be out of bottom tier, and not the rest, since they can level with staves, where as others may not. . . However, despite me saying that, I don't think that should change anything, because even with the added exp of healing behind a mage, most of them still suck too much for it to affect them in any way.

No, I agree with BB. It's possible for a healer to suck and that all characters except non Class Swappable ones are able to use the Warp Staff at some point anyway.

One minor question. Where's Frey?

It's a long story... Edited January 21, 2009 by FE3 Player

[Sylvan]

This isn't a WiFi tier list where the goal is to max stats. If somebody is being trained as a Mage or Curate, they're likely going to stay as one, and most of the major ones are magical units anyway.

Nono, I didn't mean max stats. I mean, if you want a quick 2 or 3 levels for a low-level mage you can give them a staff and use them as a healer, their growths won't be as good as a mage, but it's relevant trade for easier levels. If you did want max stats, you'd train as a mage, because of higher mag growths.

No, I agree with BB. It's possible for a healer to suck and that all characters except non Class Swappable ones are able to use the Warp Staff at some point anyway.

I agree with this to, healers suck, but it's possible to gain a few levels for a mage as a healer, this helps low-level mages a very small amount on their tier list rankings. It doesn't make them good, or even arguably useful, but it's something that only they can do.

[Rodykitty]

Nono, I didn't mean max stats. I mean, if you want a quick 2 or 3 levels for a low-level mage you can give them a staff and use them as a healer, their growths won't be as good as a mage, but it's relevant trade for easier levels. If you did want max stats, you'd train as a mage, because of higher mag growths.

Then why bring up Str?

Also, Merric and Linda are already being taken into account as Clerics, so this is already known. If it weren't for Cleric, Linda would be much lower than she is now.

I agree with this to, healers suck, but it's possible to gain a few levels for a mage as a healer, this helps low-level mages a very small amount on their tier list rankings. It doesn't make them good, or even arguably useful, but it's something that only they can do.

This is already taken into account.

[Tamara]

One minor question. Where's Frey?

Frey (and Norne) are only available on NM. HM has no prologue.

[Pitbuller26]

Frey (and Norne) are only available on NM. HM has no prologue.

I did not know that, thanks for telling me.

[Rodykitty]

Decided to move Hardin to the Top of High.

[Dat Nick]

Seems a little high for me. He's really not that much better than Jagen, and he's kind of useless later on.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

I concur. Hardin should go down.

Edited January 22, 2009 by Levin

[Rodykitty]

I wouldn't say he's useless. He's not far behind other Paladins.

Regardless, I'll put him below Shiida, and move Ogma down to High tier.

[Emperor Hardin]

Man how come all of my favorite characters got nerfed? :(

Edited January 22, 2009 by Delsait