Rodykitty Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 So we can't even agree where a tier gap should exist. That's not good since there are three different ideas (four if you count the earlier attempt to make the split between Draug & SK's) for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitus Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) that's better imo Except it doesn't address the issue of Caeda > Merric but again, before we get too happy about moving people around, was Merric > Cord really cemented, or was it something that people went "ok wtv"? Edited November 23, 2009 by Andrew W.K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 So when exactly is Shiida going mage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CATS Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Let's start by assuming she goes Mage immediately and seeing where that gets her. It'll be easier to adjust for further Wing Spear utility after we've established that starting point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitus Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I always assumed Caeda went mage whenever she got +1 str. IIRC there are some dracos some time before promotion that have 16 spd, so unless she got str she wouldn't double them because lol20spd cap and -1 AS from fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) So when exactly is Shiida going mage? pay attention plz? and you can even do these on a chapter where Wing Spear is totally useless like C6x. By then she doubles as mage anyway so Mage's suck is barely visible. Edited November 23, 2009 by laws b122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I really think this should be sorted out in FEGenesis. Too much clutter in one topic and I'm lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 There isn't any need to sort out right now. I think people found something to focus on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) Well one minute I hear Darros. Next I hear Merric < Shiida. Then somehow we hit BARST > Shiida (huh?) Then somehow we railed backon track with Shiida. EDIT: While I'm not going to take the Spirit Dusts too far, it does allowher a little breathing space to use Pegasus Knight a bit more often. Edited November 23, 2009 by Colonel M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 Merric may want Spirit Dusts too considering his class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Merric may want Spirit Dusts too considering his class. In this case, think of the opportunity cost. Granted I could give those to Merric. However, if I give them to Shiida that is the possibility of extending that Wing Spear utility furter out. Merric's only unique utility is Excalibur which is only good for C7 and C10, the latter where he's near promotion anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 However, if I give them to Shiida that is the possibility of extending that Wing Spear utility furter out.We're already extending Sheeda's Wing Spear use to past Ch. 4. I'm sure she wants that Mag growth when possible because it's pretty mediocre as it is.According to FE Planet's averages, there are two levels before promotion where she's not getting any +Mag points anyway, so getting around four levels as PK might net a loss of 1 Mag point at most, at least average wise. In this case, think of the opportunity cost.I am thinking of the opportunity cost, which is why I brought up Merric in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 That's just it. Merric IS the only opportunity cost. Even so, let's say all we were doing is allowing compensation for the loss of the Mag growth. If Shiida only gets 1 of them (likely) she can afford to miss up to almost 7 levels, which gives about 7 chapters to which we can actually use the Wing Spear when it is needed. I don't even think the Mag loss will make or break her anyway since by the time she doubles she likely 2RKOes once she has Blizzard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 Even if he's the only opportunity cost, I felt that it's important to point it out anyway since there aren't a lot of viable Mages. Since both of these characters are in comparison, they'll both have to be compared with it applied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Guys, there's two dusts. Merric can just take the C19 one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 'Kay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CATS Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Well, if you give Shiida a Dust to compensate for missing Mag growth as a Peg for some early chaps, then her case is even better yet. Now, in addition to everything I've already said, she's doing very well in some of those early chapters with her Prf weapon that annihilates Cavs, where alot of units (even high tiers; i.e. Draug) are sucking. This allows her to build up the Spd to double as a Mage without sucking while doing it. Essentially the period of time where Shiida was previously doing the worst is eliminated. With that in play I'd argue her clearly superior to Merric. Even earlygame Excalibur can be replicated by Wendell; no one else gets to use the Wing Spear at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 6x? That is not when it stops being useless. Cahpter 7's reinforcements before you can manage to clog the place, chapter 8 is a nightmare full of them. I'd say it stops being helpful in Pyarthi, since afterwards she has mage durability vs powerful silver which could OHKO her, where a wing spear shot might not kill in one shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I talked about Barst getting his own tier a bit over at fegenesis. Check it out if you agree/disagree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 Does anybody concede any Sheeda arguments? And not any Barts arguments either. I mean vs. Merric. I would like to see the order within the tier settled before we think about tier gaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) Wait, wait, how is a Spirit Dust solving all of her problems? Now she still has shitty magic if she was a pegasus before, and is has to wait even longer for a better rank. If she doesn't class change until the first spirit dust, I'd argue that she's even worse off then she would be in Chapter 4 when she would of first reclassed. Ok, so first Spirit Dust doesn't come until Chapter 11. Are we saying that we're waiting until then to change her to Mage, when her and everyone else is level 14-15? Giving her a grand total of 4 magic, and only 5 if she promotes? And being stuck to a Fire tome at first? Don't we want to get her Mage shittyness out the way as soon as possible? Edited November 24, 2009 by IOS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) Another double, sorry Edited November 24, 2009 by IOS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 Ok, so first Spirit Dust doesn't come until Chapter 11. Are we saying that we're waiting until then to change her to Mage, when her and everyone else is level 14-15? Giving her a grand total of 4 magic, and only 5 if she promotes? And being stuck to a Fire tome at first?No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Then when are we class changing? I can guarantee you that when I show the numbers she has against the enemies after she goes to Mage, they will not be pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 I believe dondon mentioned 6x, while Cats mentioned after gaining a Str point as Pegasus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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