Dat Nick Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 The only way Hardain got nerfed is that Cain, Abel, and Frey are better than him this go round since the prolouge exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 The only way Hardain got nerfed is that Cain, Abel, and Frey are better than him this go round since the prolouge exists. Naw his strength was lowered and everyone else got their hp buffed while his remained the same. That and they introduced Frey who's basically Hardian except less interesting and better stats. The main villain of the sequel should be top tier not one of his mooks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) ...Abel's HP is LOWER than Book 1, 65% HP growth instead of 70% >_> Granted it makes almost no difference, but still. Also, TWO of his mooks. And IIRC, Roshe used to be in the same tier as Hardain. Edited January 22, 2009 by MightyZagaro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THR Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 So wait... Like... why is Cain>Abel. Everyone can only take like 3 hits during ch 1 and only doga can take 4 hits. Then it just gets MUCH worse as the game moves on. During the first few chapters, won't Cain be like, getting hurt with every attack he makes since he cant use javelin's immediately? Imo, having javelins early on>not having them. Basewise, Kain just gets 1 str/lck, but then Abel gets 2 skl/1 spd Also, when both are around 10/0, Abel only loses 1hp, 1 str, 2 lck, but has a 2 skl and 1 spd lead I mean, all kain really gets at like 20/0 is a 2 hp/4 luck lead, but then luck is pretty fail and Abel gets a 1 skl/spd lead. Not to mention the fact that Abel will level faster than Cain in the beginning since he can just peg pplz with javvies whereas Cain can't do that and has to rely on counter attacking the enemy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 Hardin didn't get nerfed. I checked Serenes Forest, and I saw very little changes to him. And the one nerf MightyZagaro mentions he has, doesn't even exist on H5. Frey doesn't exist either. Like... why is Cain>Abel.Superior growths.Javelins are also overrated in the early chapters. They're useful, but they are not the only thing necessary for completing the early chapters. The main villain of the sequel should be top tier not one of his mooks.Eh, it just shows how much he's improved. He's making the broken character in this game into his lackey. That takes some epic power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Superior growths.Javelins are also overrated in the early chapters. They're useful, but they are not the only thing necessary for completing the early chapters. "Superior growths are overrated. Javelins are useful." etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 Well, I've argued Abel > Kain before, but even if Abel is better, I still think Javelins have been overrated for the early chapters a bit. I find that Abel's weapon level is also important for being able to use Swords without screwing up Lance rank for the early chapters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arvilino Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I don't consider Javelins overrated for early chapters, especially considering it's H-5 mode the enemies have A in weapon ranks and their high stats, being able to engage in combat with them from a distance is a lot more useful than having slighty better growth rates. Cain will have to use an iron lance against the majority of axe users in the first few chapters before he'll be able to use Javelins. While Abel with automatic access can safetly attack on the player phase with a Javelin and counter during the enemy phase. Cain can only attack on the player phase if he's going to kill the enemy or if there's only one enemy and he has full health, other than that he's stuck to only being able to counter on the enemy phase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) I'm not going to argue Cain > Abel (I only stated why Cain is placed above him. (Okay, the Javelins being overrated thing is my fault) I'm not the one that placed him there. Looking at it again, Abel has superior averages, so now I'm definitely sure), but I remember Juigi Kario made Chapter 1 videos that went overkill on Javelin reliance, which is where my idea of Javelins being overrated comes from. Edited January 29, 2009 by Chainey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 You should switch their positions then. Abel > Cain for the most difficult part of the game and Cain's never gonna have any significant leads on Abel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 Ah yeah. I forgot I was in control of the H5 tier list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Could you explain why Beck > Wendell, Gotoh, Julian, Horace and Nabarl? And then proceed to explain why Jake is worse than all of those, without becoming inconsistent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 No. I can't really explain. They have never been in an accurate spot because I don't have a lot to go by. I'll put them in the bottom of their tier based on your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) I remember arguing that Beck > Jake and that led to just switching their positions. Their current positioning looks good, maybe above Julian since his durability is bad for H5 and long range weapons like ArrowSpate, Hoistflamme and Thunderbolt are good help. Edited January 29, 2009 by Levin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 Them both above Julian sounds good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THR Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Just a question, but why is Cord so high? It's prolly something I'm missing about him but... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 If they're going to be above Julian, there's little trouble arguing them above Gotoh and Wendell as well, based on the amount of chapters they're useful for. Wendell is only useful early on until his stats simply start sucking too much, and Gotoh is useful for one chapter, while I'd say these dudes can be fielded in about any chapter and be extremely useful. Now, I'm not quite far enough in H5 to really specifically comment on their performance (stupid Ch8 arena), but Beck alone raped his joining chapter for me in NM with the Thunderbolts. I'm not sure if he rapes as badly with it in H5, but with Jake to assist him with the finishing hit, that is one huge flexibility increase for your other units. And then later they can gang up on LRT enemies, priests that keep healing your enemies with Fortify, blahblahblah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) Off the top of my head, here's some instances that make Ballisticans quite valuable in H5: - Peg Knights and Draco Knights. Forged Javelins are mean and doing some serious damage to them with Arrowspate so you can feed a Draco Knight to some of your main units is certainly good. - Mages, shoot them with Hoistflamme first and then kill. Yay for no Bolganone counter-attack ^_^. Helps with raising units like Dolph, Palla and Catria. - Enemy Ballisticans. In the chapter he joins, you could have both your ballisticans kill 1 by teaming up together or weaken 2 to help reduce casualties in chapter 13. Thunderbolt also helps against the endgame ballisticans if you're not doing the 1 turn strategy. 1 Unit will die if you don't kill at least 1 of those 2 ballisticans. -Thieves. Some pretty much require a ballistican or else the vilage will be destroyed. -Like Mekkah said, Fortify priests. Their chip damage is nice to have, it's bad that it's pretty limited =\ Edited January 30, 2009 by Levin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 I like to view Wendell as a valuable unit, but he's already in Upper Tier which covers my opinion anyway. Beck and Jake are still useful on H5, and Levin covers their uses. They're doing their job and helping other units play more efficiently and safely, so I see absolutely no problem with putting them above Wendell and Gotoh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 They were both in an upper tier to begin with (which means they're useful). The sentence start you're looking for is "they are more useful than Gotoh/Wendel because ________". Next question, why is Nagi in High? I've never gotten or used her, let alone in H5, but she seems to suffer from the same availability as Gotoh. Maybe better combat, but no 1~2 range and staves... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 She has better chapter clearing utility for one-turning the final chapter. Though I should drop her, because there doesn't seem to be a decent way to one turn the chapter without getting her killed. Luck manipulation will achieve the same results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 (edited) because there doesn't seem to be a decent way to one turn the chapter without getting her killed Who cares? It's the final chapter. If you have to sacrifice your entire ficking army to beat the chapter, so be it. I almost killed off Zag to save me a headache or two [screwed up on the one turn stragety and forgot to take out the priests] C'mon, man, you of all people should know final chapter deaths=irrelevant. Maybe if we had a survival rank. MAYBE. Edited January 31, 2009 by MightyZagaro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 It isn't too tough to tackle the chapter without having any1 suicide if you don't skip previous chapters like I do. A sniper of 27 SPD doing 15 damage to Medeus is what you need (or a general whose HP and DEFx2 = 101 using Gradivus and dealing 15 damage). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 I'm probably going to keep Nagi where she is for now in case there are other units that are doing her job to some extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 t isn't too tough to tackle the chapter without having any1 suicide Not the point, here. Point is suiciding on the final chapter equals irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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