H5 Tier list topic

[RPG]

Well, I haven't really tried him on H5, so it was just speculation. Sorry.

[Ercdouken]

I can see Ymir going above Radd. Radd needs babying and Ymir doesn't.

[Mekkah]

The thing with earlygame AKs isn't just their combat stats, it's fail movement. This doesn't only mean they can't go ahead of everyone else to soak up enemies coming to you, but it also means they have to keep a lot of distance when mages are involved, and when everyone moves their full movement, for example in Ch6 to save chests, they can't contribute anything at all until the dust settles...and they're also very hampered by terrain. Put something like a forest in their way and they need to use all their four movement just to get around it.

[Quasar]

AK

You are, of course, entirely correct in this matter and the game not having rescue makes it even worse for them. However I'll still point out that Armors have 5 MOV in FESD.

[Rodykitty]

Wait, what exactly makes Radd better than Ymir?

I've been the only one that actually felt Ymir was worth something for the longest time now. People whined every time I wanted to rise him for having at least utility in coming with something that resembles stats without having to be leveled up.

Above Radd, definitely.

[Colonel M]

I've been the only one that actually felt Ymir was worth something for the longest time now. People whined every time I wanted to rise him for having at least utility in coming with something that resembles stats without having to be leveled up.

You're not the only one. Before the purge I wanted Ymir > Etzel. Of course Wolf would hunt me down to earth's end and skewer me with a Javelin before that happens, right?

@Mekkah: one minor flaw with your argument is the units are going to be bunched together anyway, so the Mov isn't an issue.

Edited July 9, 2009 by Colonel M

[Rodykitty]

I do agree that it also means that Armor Knight isn't going to be the first to go out there and take hits.

Not that it matters much in this debate though. I think alternative class options and earlier join time leave Etzel's only real advantage to be healing.

[Mekkah]

CM, half my point is that even when everyone is clustered together, having so few move is terribly inefficient. It's especially annoying if they've sustained enormous amounts of damage and require healing, because they have a hard time getting out of enemy attack range safely to get to your cleric or to use vulns, and a hard time getting back into the action too.

[Colonel M]

I'm not disagreeing with you Mekkah, but under the circumstances at hand it's not like everyone around him is doing that much better. A unit with 6 Mov (a.k.a unpromoted units) are still within range of something like a Cavalier.

[Rodykitty]

Units can keep up with Social Knights on H5, but ideally it's going to be your higher Mov units that will be luring first, especially since they can get out of danger more easily as well.

[Colonel M]

Again, not disagreeing with Mekkah entirely. It is a relevant point, but with the tactics required in thisgame it isn't a major detriment.

[Dat Nick]

While we're taking Radd on the slippery slope...who else sees Chiki above him as more than just a possibility?

[Colonel M]

While we're taking Radd on the slippery slope...who else sees Chiki above him as more than just a possibility?

A bit slippery because Chiki needs levels as well. She's not "uber-like" until the levels pour in, but I'd agree to it.

Though now the gap between Matthis and Radd is opening again. >_>

[Dat Nick]

A bit slippery because Chiki needs levels as well.

At least she doesn't have to bend over backwards to get them, because, well, you know, existing offense and all.

[Colonel M]

At least she doesn't have to bend over backwards to get them, because, well, you know, existing offense and all.

Kind of.

One major problem is being ORKOed by certain units. IIRC one of the few units she can survive against is the Generals and possibly low Atk Paladins. Her chip damage is fine otherwise, but it's her minor durabililty issue that is iffy. Obviously cleans up pretty fast though, so I don't see how she's below him either.

[Dat Nick]

One major problem is being ORKOed by certain units.

And that's never an issue for Radd, who has comparable durability to Rickardo

Edited July 9, 2009 by GreenHairedDraco

[Colonel M]

And that's never an issue for Radd, who has comparable durability to Rickardo

You seem to forget the Curate -> Sniper route would at least prevent that for a while. He isn't sticking with Myrmidion. Unless you're that weird girl who's the fanboy.

[Dat Nick]

You seem to forget the Curate -> Sniper route would at least prevent that for a while.

I didn't remember which route Radd takes since he's so rarely talked about.

And yeah, for a WHILE, but his offense only sucks SLIGHTLY less than before.

[Colonel M]

I didn't remember which route Radd takes since he's so rarely talked about.

And yeah, for a WHILE, but his offense only sucks SLIGHTLY less than before.

Until Braves come around, a promoted Sniper!Raddy can double unpromoted units. No duh his offense sucks otherwise.

[Dat Nick]

I'm referring to his earlygame offense. I'm aware he doesn't suck nearly as badly as he did once he promotes, you know.

Though now the gap between Matthis and Radd is opening again. >_>

it won't open much further

Because I honestly believe Radd>Chiki is the only thing there is left to correct on this list

Edited July 9, 2009 by GreenHairedDraco

[Capracanis]

Wait, what exactly makes Radd better than Ymir?

Depends.

The Answer: In one instance, Ymir is better than Radd because let's face it, if you're gonna keep 14 units alive for each Gaiden character up until Ymir, 4 of the 14 being Horce, Athena Etzel and Marth, I'a gonna guess that Radd isn't going to be among the other 11; you'll jsut kill him and get it over with as his level sucks.

The simple version: Because Ymir will actually be alive by that chapter.

The Answer 2.0: On the other hand, if you train him smartly by letting big units hit the Horsemen in his recruiting chapter (Jaigen, Roger, Drag and Shiida + Wing L. come to mind) then Radd can g in for the kill and will Level up pretty damn fast. IF, and only IF you can level him, he's useful. Honestly, I've never used him as a Myrmidon aside from killing priests, mages and the occasinal arena. Anything with low DEF, basically. Endgame, if you 20/20 him, he's damn good. Generally ahs a bit more STR than Navarre though significantly less SKL.

Kind of.

One major problem is being ORKOed by certain units. IIRC one of the few units she can survive against is the Generals and possibly low Atk Paladins. Her chip damage is fine otherwise, but it's her minor durabililty issue that is iffy. Obviously cleans up pretty fast though, so I don't see how she's below him either.

She's slow off the start compared to enemy units. I mean, shit, In normal mode she can fall pretty fast. Well, if you're dumb...but still takes a fair bit of damage.

Personally, my team consists of Speed units + Gordin. You can't deny that fast units like Ogma and Navarre come in handy when facing pirates and shit and compared to toher archers, Godin just seems to have slightly more defence when he's hit. The only real risk with him is his speed because he can get doubled fairly early. Mages are also useful because for once, the lack of resistance can come into play in our favor. Merric is awesomeness with Excalibur. Failing that you don't wanna use it, get a Blizzard from the online shop. But honestly, if you're getting the Hammmern alter, use the sacred tomes. Everytime I've played I've always wound up with like, 5/7 Hammern uses left and a bit over 30k in gold left even with forging. (Alot of arena abuse for my teams...) But seriously, use the staff.

H5 is great for Hardin in my opinion. His spot in the 'High' is well-earned no amtter the rout he takes. I don't take advantage of his high lv in Ch5. Instead, I make him a healer if I already avhe other units that are decent close-range fighters. He already comes with 1 Res anyway. And if he doesnt gain any Mag or only about 2 Mag by lv20, then just change him back to a Melee class after promote and he's got a fair amout of magic resistance. Give him a Forged weapon. Steel Sword with a bit of added Mt is useful as fuck in that case and his resistance on yop of that makes him a killer against the magic users. He'll still take some damage but less healing in the long-run.

I will however say that Roger should be a bit lower. The only thing he can brag about is his Luck growth which is cut in half as we all know. I personally use Draug as a Pirate because of the speed he has as one. Can't really say the same for Roger unless you want to reclass him later, though as what, I donno...He just...sucks...I mean, somewhat good Def but poor Skl and Str off the start. And on the subject of Knights, how Dolph is higher than Navarre is beyond me. Navarre is useful when you get him, or you can just give his killer to Ogma...eitherway but he's good for the hits. Dolph gets doubled and needs some tending to. Well, so does everyone but one's a bigger liability. I mean, Dolph joins at Lv4 during Ch12, and Navarre is at Lv3 during Ch2. Hmmm...I wonder which one will have had time to grow by Ch12? Honestly, if the only reason you wouldn't be using Navarre is if you've done some good shit with Ogma. Failing that, I'm pretty sure by Ch12 Navarre is going to be AT LEAST lv10. AT LEAST. I mean, in my game he was...but that's just me...I use Gordin too...I've only ever found Dolph and Macellan useful as Mercs because that's the only class, speed-wise that won't get completely raped in H5.

Gordin should also be higher than Matthis and Vyland. Still lower (if you want) but higher than those two. Those two are just horrible. The only way to make them useful is as healers. i mean, Maybe Vyland is useful slightly due to his speed but his skill is piss-poor. Gordon at least as defence to surive when you get him. The other two get mowed down in their recruiting chapter.

I also think healer should have their own tier list. You need the healing and they're not going to be doing much else. The exception is Merric and Linde, who of course will only heal if everything's under controle. They'll mainly attack. But even in Normal mode, Wrys and Lena can't cast a spell worth a shit and should stay as healers. honestly, unless you plan on giving them Bolganone or Thoron, give them a fucking Mend and let'em do their thing. If Lena and Wrys are already maxed by the time you get Maria (which they should be) then use her and don't waste the staff exp, unless you're planning on using Wendell for both Atk and Healing, in which case, still use her because Wendell won't always be available. As Melee, they also suck, so there's pretty much no arguments against this for a reclass unless you wanna waste your money of Levins and make them Swordmasters. They are amazing as Swmdmstrs--dont get me wrong, but their Mag suffers upon reclass.

One last thing, why are Julian and Rickard even classed in that? Honestly, who the fuck is using them for fighting in H5? I can see it if there's the odd enemy that NEEDS to die and they're your last option but c'mon. They should be with Est or in their own title Call it 'Should have been as funny as Matthew and Colm:'.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Capracanis

[grandjackal]

*sigh* ...Have to agree with Draco here...Radd might be fine once trained and unpromoted, but with Chiki being a pinch hitter for when Nagi's not up to the plate and the fact we didn't have to train Chiki for usability against mamkutes...

..Does it have to be though? T.T Just keep Raddy above her, please?

[Colonel M]

Not trying to be a "favorite" dude but yeah Dolph and Roger?

Hunter -> General!Dolph

Fighter -> Hero!Roger

You'd have to find a lot of heavy negatives with these guys in general other than "I unno what to reclass them into".

Curate!Gordon was deemed inferior to that of Curate!Wrys, though I must admit being useful earlygame is comparable to being okay mid-to-lategame where no I wouldn't argue for Gordon. Matthis is mid-game use and Gordon earlygame.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Colonel M

[CT075]

Curate!Gordon was deemed inferior to that of Curate!Wrys, though I must admit being useful earlygame is comparable to being okay mid-to-lategame where no I wouldn't argue for Gordon. Matthis is mid-game use and Gordon earlygame.

Because I don't play this game that much any more, I'm not going to defend Gordin, but isn't Cavalier-Dracoknight Gordin considered his best option?

[Colonel M]

Because I don't play this game that much any more, I'm not going to defend Gordin, but isn't Cavalier-Dracoknight Gordin considered his best option?

Most people tossed it aside due to Curate!Gordon being a healer and, thus, contribute for a short time. I dunno much about the Cav -> DracoKnight class only because he needs to gamble on the +1 Spd from the Archer class and, coincidentally, won't get much on the offensive end of things.