CT075 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 OK... Back to the RD board with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capracanis Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Because I don't play this game that much any more, I'm not going to defend Gordin, but isn't Cavalier-Dracoknight Gordin considered his best option? Yeah. His defence is pretty damn good. Donno why Colonel said it was tossed aside. Donno why anyone would amke Gordin a healer when Matthis is just fine doing that. I mean, Roshea and Vyland can be healers if you realy wanted to sue them, so why make Gordon one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 It was because as a cav-draco, his offense was balls. Utter utter balls. Durably he's cool, but he's doing such diddly damage... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) Units like Cavalier Gordon or Cavalier Merric are walls, not tanks, and aren't going to be getting level ups. Actually, even if it's proven that Social Knight Merric can get level ups and become good, he's already high tier. Gonna rise Chiki. EDIT: Mekkah says what I should have. Edited July 10, 2009 by Chainey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 anything No. Because I honestly believe Radd>Chiki is the only thing there is left to correct on this list o____O That'd be a first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) Hm...maybe it ISN'T the only thing left with this list, actually. Chiki (@ base, yeah she can gain some levels by the time Ymir joins, but not enough to make hers stats much bigger than this): 18 HP, 31 MT, 8 AS, 18 def Ymir @ Base Hero w/ Silver: 42 HP, 31 MT [WTA taken into account], 18 AS, 11 def Durability wise, offense wise, move wise, and 1-2 range wise, Ymir is stomping Chiki in pretty much every possible factor unless Chiki gained like 12 levels or somthing in between her recruitment and Ymir's. Hell, he could even use Hauteclere or something to go from a tie on Chiki's MT to a win. Granted, that's not a resource he's 100% entitled to, but Chiki can't do anything at all to get a win. Edited July 10, 2009 by Norton Says What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 ???? Ymir is already above Chiki though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 ...Damnit, I think the first thing that went to my mind was "Oh, Tiki might go above Ymir" then I checked numbers and saw how badly Ymir was stomping her and I guess I just got mixed up totally on what I was arguing. Though there is Etzel, who is a crude staffer and mediocre mage at best being above both of them. Ymir I can see going above him since he doesn't totally fail at combat, Chiki not so much, but still...I think that one needs to be looked into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 inb4... "Insta-Excalibur use!" "And WHO is the one warping Ymir? That's right, ETZEL is!" "Who is the one healing Ymir when he gets hurt? That's right, Etzel!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) inb4..."Insta-Excalibur use!" "Insta-Poleaxe use! Which is more common the Excalibur use!" "And WHO is the one warping Ymir? That's right, ETZEL is!" ...Hm... "Who is the one healing Ymir when he gets hurt? That's right, Etzel!" "Who can survive one round of combat? That's right, Ymir!" Meh, couldn't resisit. >_> Because I honestly believe Radd>Chiki is the only thing there is left to correct on this list AK Bord being okay in usage, he might rise a little bit, but I'd still throw him under the utility list only because it's a crude setup and most of the people above him either have better options (Hunter->General) or simply are better in the class (Darros). Edited July 10, 2009 by Colonel M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) Dawww, stop it guys, you're making me blush. Flattery will get you everywhere~<3 "Insta-Poleaxe use! Which is more common the Excalibur use!" Ohhh, whole 3 in the whole game. Also lets compare the demand to the supply. People who want pole-axes - Every axe user in the entire fucking game. People who can even use Excalibur without much work- Etzel, Maric, Wendell. Excalibur is also a lot more multi-use than just slayer effect. There is the crit rate and 1-2 range to consider. Then consider that Excalibur has more than twice the uses of 2 pole axes alltogether... "Who can survive one round of combat? That's right, Ymir!"Meh, couldn't resisit. >_> Who's gonna heal him so he has an actual player phase? Edited July 10, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) Who's gonna heal him so he has an actual player phase? One of the many possible D-B rank staff users. Also, there are 5 Poleaxe (3 in C17's end, 2 more by 2nd of C17x) if you count the Gaiden chapters. Not to mention that those come around soon before Hammerne (C20) shows up. Edited July 10, 2009 by Sirius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) Dawww, stop it guys, you're making me blush. Flattery will get you everywhere~<3 Unfortunately, you won't get any sympathy from me. (I couldn't think of an Ike quote that had nowhere). Ohhh, whole 3 in the whole game. 1 Excalibur vs, erhem, 5 Poleaxes. Also lets compare the demand to the supply.People who want pole-axes - Every axe user in the entire fucking game. People who can even use Excalibur without much work- Etzel, Maric, Wendell. Question: how many "fucking" axe users are we going to use? You know, Generics can have a bit over C Rank in the Tomes too, making it that much more difficult for Etzel to have such an uber tome. Excalibur is also a lot more multi-use than just slayer effect. There is the crit rate and 1-2 range to consider. Former is difficult to argue against, but the latter is something he'll need just to survive. Then consider that Excalibur has more than twice the uses of 2 pole axes alltogether... Or is broken by this point of the game anyway. Who's gonna heal him so he has an actual player phase? Or Generics. Edited July 10, 2009 by Colonel M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) Unfortunately, you won't get any sympathy from me. (I couldn't think of an Ike quote that had nowhere). Well prepare to eat rock! Eat rock *snort* I'm so witty. 1 Excalibur vs, erhem, 5 Poleaxes.Question: how many "fucking" axe users are we going to use? You know, Generics can have a bit over C Rank in the Tomes too, making it that much more difficult for Etzel to have such an uber tome. By that logic, generics already have C axes and already can use pole axes, which rises the demand even higher. Here are also the possible axe users. Draug Ogma Barst Cord Caesar Roger Minerva Dolph Hero!Bord Astram Samson Bitchface generics Quite a heft list, all people better than him save everyone below Dolph, and that's still quite a bit a bit of people better than him to compete with. Former is difficult to argue against, but the latter is something he'll need just to survive. Helps him be moar flexible for sure. Can even melee player phase a draco due to instant kill. In fact, if they use a javelin, he gets 2RKOd like anyone else. Bet most others can't just instant-kill on the counter, can they? Or is broken by this point of the game anyway. Why use it early on when it's better for later, when there's a crapload of wyverns? Or Generics. They apparently have C rank and thus can't use Excalibur while they do it. Generics on hte other hand can pick up a pole axe and do what Ymir does anyways. Generics also don't have dem sexeh hips. Edited July 10, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 By that logic, generics already have C axes and already can use pole axes, which rises the demand even higher. Here are also the possible axe users.Draug Ogma Barst Cord Caesar Roger Minerva Dolph Hero!Bord Astram Samson Bitchface generics Consider how likely it is that you'll have more than 5 axe users in a team.... low chances IMO since you're probably better off with lance users due to lots of Paladins and Ridersbane available. Never mind that some of the people you listed are doing perfectly fine without a poleaxe and giving them one would usually result from 1 rounding with 2 attacks to 1 rounding with 2 attacks (unless of course you forge lots of MT on them >_>) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Excalibur can also be used when it doesn't do effective damage whereas Poleaxe will only be used when it does effective damage. The point being that Merric and Wendell can exhaust Excalibur on more than just DKs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 Why use it early on when it's better for later, when there's a crapload of wyverns?Excalibur being better in a late game chapter where you have a sea of bow users that are actually more than just utility~.I'd rather use it to get past Ch. 10. I know Ch. 22 is a pain, but considering how most tier rises are based on bow using classes, that we would stop overrating the Dragon Knight's role in lategame chapters by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Nevermind that many people on his list kind of made me chuckle a bit: Hero!BordAstram Samson Bitchface generics Not to mention some of these characters can 1) go toward a different route (Hunter -> General!Dolph I find superior) and 2) have other class options to consider (Hunter -> Horseman!Oguma isn't bad). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 Hero Bord makes sense considering innate Axe rank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Hero Bord makes sense considering innate Axe rank. I know Hero!Ymir isn't much faster, but Bord can't even reach 20 AS until 20/20. Ymir has a chance by Level 14 or something like that. Not that I'm advocating it much more, but I'd still take General Bord over Hero Bord anyday. >_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 I think he was listing off a bunch of Poleax users, not characters that were better than Ymir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Yeah, because Ymir as you can see is not the sole user of that weapon. Also, why wouldn't we have a bunch of axe users around? Considering they're the ones pulling off durability leads, I'd rather have them around than lancers. Hell, axes are the reason Minerva's in upper mid. As for Excalibur...uhh...Can't it be forged? ;;>> ....Why don't you people take my word as pure truth anymore? T.T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Hell, axes are the reason Minerva's in upper mid. I thought that was based on Sniper? I was the one who argued her to up mid, and whenever I argued her above somebody, I used the Sniper setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Yeah, because Ymir as you can see is not the sole user of that weapon. Also, why wouldn't we have a bunch of axe users around? Considering they're the ones pulling off durability leads, I'd rather have them around than lancers. Hell, axes are the reason Minerva's in upper mid.As for Excalibur...uhh...Can't it be forged? ;;>> ....Why don't you people take my word as pure truth anymore? T.T @Bold: This applies to Etzel and Excalibur... worse for him though since that weapon's best used early since earlygame wyverns and enemies are more troublesome to kill than the lategame stuff. It's already been explained why Ymir has no trouble getting a PoleAxe It can't. Back then it wasn't argued against I suppose... not the case this time around >_>. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 It's already been explained why Ymir has no trouble getting a PoleAxe I wouldn't say he has NO trouble, but he definitely has less trouble than Etzel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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