Best Sword Master/Forrest in FE4

[thanibomb]

But Ayra can dodge while Holyn can't, and she is much more reliable in killing bosses and stronger enemies with Shooting Star. Put her on a forest tile and she could take out an entire army without getting hit.

[luigi bros]

Put her on a forest tile and she could take out an entire army without getting hit.

I'm not arguing she's bad but from past experiances she can do that against sword and axe fighters but not against lance fighters and magic users.

[thanibomb]

I'm not arguing she's bad but from past experiances she can do that against sword and axe fighters but not against lance fighters and magic users.

That's true, but she's still better than Holyn at that. Ayra is way more reliable than he is.

[luigi bros]

That's true, but she's still better than Holyn at that. Ayra is way more reliable than he is.

I know that.

I'm just saying there's exeptions to what you said.

[TheEnd]

Sure is trollan around here.

[Dat Nick]

But Ayra can dodge while Holyn can't

no

Put her on a forest tile and she could take out an entire army without getting hit.

no

That's true, but she's still better than Holyn at that. Ayra is way more reliable than he is.

and no

Aira: 29 spd, 8 lck

Holyn: 24 spd, 5 lck

Total difference...about 13 avoid. GREAT SCOTT MARTY AIRA IS A DODGING MACHINE! HOLYN SLOW LOL! Yeah no. Concrete durability>>>>>>>>Avoid

Sorry, no. Holyn's massive HP/def lead TOTALLY creams that. Aira isn't even that good at dodging due to fail luck. Pit her against the ballista in C2, and THEN we'll see how good she is at dodging. If anything, Holyn is the one better at taking out mobs.

and she is much more reliable in killing bosses and stronger enemies with Shooting Star.

yeah great

too bad the only enemies with super stats, i.e the only things Holyn can't one round normally, Aira isn't going to be fighting anyway. It's one of Sigurd, Levin, Briggid, and if he existed past chapter 3, Cuan. Aira doesn't want to fight these enemies that she actually NEEDS her overkilled offense for because then she's going to just get raped.

Not to mention, even if she DOES attack them, you're still not guaranteed an Astra activation, and if you fail, then y hello thar Radnay in Gen 2. I'll take using Ichival and actually be guaranteed the kill, thanks.

Edited January 21, 2009 by MightyZagaro

[Mekkah]

You Ayra fans realize that when you talk about bosses, you are mostly referring to Generals? You know, those things with like 20 def, which Holyn essentially gets 20 extra atk against if he activates Moonlight Sword?

Put her on a forest tile and she could take out an entire army without getting hit.

Put Ayra on a forest against an army and there's still a chance she will die, it just lowered.

Put Holyn on a forest against an army and there's no chance he will die, since now both his durability and avo kick ass.

Say Ayra is L10 when Holyn is L14 (generous...Holyn doesn't ever enter the field at base level due to the arena, but ok). Let's say they have some sword that weighs 3.

Ayra: 36 hp, 8 def, 33 avo

Holyn: 40 hp, 11 def, 29 avo

20 atk 3HKOs Ayra and 5HKOs Holyn. Do you think having 4 more avo outweighs that, with a 1-RN system?

15 atk 6HKOs Ayra and 10HKOs Holyn. Who would you rather be?

[Dat Nick]

Generals? You know, those things with like 20 def, which Holyn essentially gets 20 extra atk against if he activates Moonlight Sword?

or some dude with a holy weapon

...That's never fun. Well, it's not fun unless you've got one to hit them right back with.

20 atk 3HKOs Ayra and 5HKOs Holyn. Do you think having 4 more avo outweighs that, with a 1-RN system?

15 atk 6HKOs Ayra and 10HKOs Holyn. Who would you rather be?

Don't forget that their offense is equal.

...And watch. The only response we're going to get is "FAIL LOL U GUYZ SUCK"

...Oh yeah, and I should point out: Level 10 is still being ridiculously nice to Aira, never mind that Holyn gains about two levels in the arena, meaning at jointime, Holyn might actually have HIGHER avo than Ayra, lawl.

.....Using that same logic, I would say that Skaskar or what the crap ever>Lakche.

Edited January 21, 2009 by MightyZagaro

[Seph]

Just coming in to agree with Holyn > Ayra.

At least there's 2 people against everyone else when it was 1 against everyone else before.

[Mekkah]

.....Using that same logic, I would say that Skaskar or what the crap ever>Lakche.

Skasaha and Lakche are much closer in everything in regards to stats (talking Lex as father here, but it works for everyone of them, I'm sure), but Lakche has more random tiebreaker advantages, such as having an easier and quicker time finding a lover for gold funnelling benefits or giving them a chance to crit, having Continue after promotion, and some random conversations that boost her stats by a bit (mostly the Shannan one in Ch7).

[Kriemhild]

I never used Holyn but his level was higher when I got him. This topic has convinced me that Holyn > Aira.

I still think that Lakche > Skasaha though.

[Seph]

For everyone who believes Lakche > Shanan:

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=12093

[Robert]

At it again?

It really dosent matter, most of the time you will use both shanan and lakche. And Holyn and Ira.

[Clonez]

Of course Shanan is better. Balmung is better than anything Lakche has.

[Robert]

and again- it really osent matter, as you should use both, or at least shanan who being not a childrren will always turn out the same.

[AceNoctali]

You Ayra fans realize that when you talk about bosses, you are mostly referring to Generals? You know, those things with like 20 def, which Holyn essentially gets 20 extra atk against if he activates Moonlight Sword?

Those same Generals / Barons, who have that Great Shield skill, which activates so friggin' often, and annoys you the shit out each time you see Holyn activate Moonlight Hit, only to see it blocked ?

If anything, Ayra is better at taking the Generals with Meteor Sword, IMO. At least she has more chances of hitting them (and upon promotion, according to FEA averages, she has a full 4 pts lead in Skill over Holin, meaning she activates more often her Sword Skill than him. In that game where Charisma's 10% evade increase can make the difference between life and death due to that RNG system, that quite important IMO. Oh, and she has Continue too).

And don't tell me Holyn has way better Strength than her, because, again according to FEA Averages, he basically only have a 1 pt lead over her.

As for my opinion on the main question... I personnally had more overall success with Ayra in 1st Gen, and Lakche in the 2nd.

Concerning Lakche VS Shannan, against Shannan, I don't like the fact he starts at Lv 12 with mehish stats for a Swordmaster, and I hate his overall lowish stat growth.

But seriously, there's really no need to break our heads on this matter. All of them are excellent units, and should be all used. Personnally, I have fun controling them all and don't really want to compare them, when they equally kill enemies just as fine.

[thanibomb]

Those same Generals / Barons, who have that Great Shield skill, which activates so friggin' often, and annoys you the shit out each time you see Holyn activate Moonlight Hit, only to see it blocked ?

If anything, Ayra is better at taking the Generals with Meteor Sword, IMO. At least she has more chances of hitting them (and upon promotion, according to FEA averages, she has a full 4 pts lead in Skill over Holin, meaning she activates more often her Sword Skill than him. In that game where Charisma's 10% evade increase can make the difference between life and death due to that RNG system, that quite important IMO. Oh, and she has Continue too).

And don't tell me Holyn has way better Strength than her, because, again according to FEA Averages, he basically only have a 1 pt lead over her.

As for my opinion on the main question... I personnally had more overall success with Ayra in 1st Gen, and Lakche in the 2nd.

Concerning Lakche VS Shannan, against Shannan, I don't like the fact he starts at Lv 12 with mehish stats for a Swordmaster, and I hate his overall lowish stat growth.

But seriously, there's really no need to break our heads on this matter. All of them are excellent units, and should be all used. Personnally, I have fun controling them all and don't really want to compare them, when they equally kill enemies just as fine.

I agree. Both are good units, but Ayra has always been more useful to me in all of my playthroughs. Meteor Sword makes a HUGE difference, and she gets a Hero Sword as well. You could say that you could give it to Holyn, but why would you want to miss out on a potential 9+ attacks?

[Mekkah]

The question of this thread is not "which of these should I ditch?", it's "which is the best" (i.e. most useful).

Those same Generals / Barons, who have that Great Shield skill, which activates so friggin' often, and annoys you the shit out each time you see Holyn activate Moonlight Hit, only to see it blocked ?

Which also has a shot at activating once on every single of your Starlight Sword hits.

If anything, Ayra is better at taking the Generals with Meteor Sword, IMO. At least she has more chances of hitting them (and upon promotion, according to FEA averages, she has a full 4 pts lead in Skill over Holin, meaning she activates more often her Sword Skill than him. In that game where Charisma's 10% evade increase can make the difference between life and death due to that RNG system, that quite important IMO. Oh, and she has Continue too).

If she is better offensively at all, it's not by a good enough margin, and it certainly doesn't offset her defensive problems against them. Phillip reduces her to single digits of HP and the Generals on the field in Ch3 put her in OHKO or 2HKO range of everything else in their army. The Generals after that are rather retarded (they have WTA over the ones in Ch5, and the one General boss guarding Silesia in Ch4 is pathetic).

4% more activation rate isn't worth shit. It will matter once in 25 battles, and then only the ones where they can't kill normally.

And no, avo is very _unreliable_ in this game unless they are fighting axers. Both of them have fairly shitty luck, lances have 100 base hit (80 normal + 20 WTA), bows and swords have 80, and road and bridge tiles are more common than forests on many maps (-10% avo). This RN system _hurts_ evasive units more than concretely durable ones, since you often have more hit than the enemy has on you, but they still have no trouble breaking 30-40%. and if you're being 2-3HKOed like Ayra, that's a huge chance of dying right there if she's exposed to multiple enemies, especially mounted ones. Like a 3% death chance already if 3 enemies that 3HKO her attack with 30% hit.

And don't tell me Holyn has way better Strength than her, because, again according to FEA Averages, he basically only have a 1 pt lead over her.

3 points if both are at base level, but Ayra probably gains a point of Str between her and his joining time, or maybe two, so more likely an 1.5 lead. Still matters more than any other lead Ayra has though.

Concerning Lakche VS Shannan, against Shannan, I don't like the fact he starts at Lv 12 with mehish stats for a Swordmaster, and I hate his overall lowish stat growth.

Who cares about his stats being "meh for his level" when he starts like that way before anyone else promotes? Moreover, who cares about stats to begin with when you have 30 mt, 60% Continue, 32% Starlight Sword and a 40 avo bonus on top of an already high 22 base AS?

[Dat Nick]

Meteor Sword makes a HUGE difference

Oh boy, five attacks for a unit who kills everything in 2.

....Overkill much?

but why would you want to miss out on a potential 9+ attacks?

Because it's needless Overkill, and Holyn doesn't need the sword at all anyways?

The question of this thread is not "which of these should I ditch?", it's "which is the best" (i.e. most useful).

Well, of course not, it's FE4. Nobody gets

ditched in FE4. Unless you count Arden/Hannibal playing Castle Guard all the time as being ditched.

Edited January 23, 2009 by MightyZagaro

[Mekkah]

I "ditch" bad units in FE4 all the time. No point in using Noish, Alec, Beowulf, Azel, Ardan, Midir and Dew when I can just uberize my other units earlier without them.

[AceNoctali]

The question of this thread is not "which of these should I ditch?", it's "which is the best" (i.e. most useful).

Which is, as I implied in my earlier post, a stupid question and debate to start with, as it's FE4, where you can deploy every unit on the map. If it were on other FEs where you have a limited party to take on battle, I would have understood, but here... And when they both kill just as fine enemies, I don't see the need to try debating who's the best.

Come on, there's much better debates than this very old and discussed to death and ad nauseam one to make shine your superb debating skills, Mekkah. :/

Which also has a shot at activating once on every single of your Starlight Sword hits.

This probability is still much lower than the Moonlight Sword hit being blocked.

3 points if both are at base level, but Ayra probably gains a point of Str between her and his joining time, or maybe two, so more likely an 1.5 lead. Still matters more than any other lead Ayra has though.

There's a contradiction with a statement you made earlier. I though the stats which really matter about Holin against Ayra was his way superior HP and Defense (to which I agree) ? And I still think a 1 pt lead in Attack isn't worth *THAT* much.

Who cares about his stats being "meh for his level" when he starts like that way before anyone else promotes? Moreover, who cares about stats to begin with when you have 30 mt, 60% Continue, 32% Starlight Sword and a 40 avo bonus on top of an already high 22 base AS?

I do care. I know those 30 mt, 60% Continue, 32% Meteor and 40 avo are good, but I love my units to have awesome stats, just like you like to "ditch" bad units in FE4 when, for ranked runs, you HAVE to level to absurdly high levels all your units if you want to meet the Experience rank's requirements. (Yeah, Arena, Elite Ring and Civilians in chapter 4 all help, but it won't be enough.)

Edited January 24, 2009 by AceNoctali

[Dat Nick]

Which is, as I implied in my earlier post, a stupid question and debate to start with,

Doesn't change the fact it's what the topic says.

And I still think a 1 pt lead in Attack isn't worth *THAT* much.

It isn't. The durability matters in Holyn vs Ayra more than anything else.

[Robert]

3 defense makes such a difference.

[Seph]

3 defense makes such a difference.

Apparently the HP stat doesn't exist anymore, since Holyn will be having a nice lead over Ayra in that.

[Robert]

OH MY 5 hp!