Obama vs Darth Vader

[Der Kommissar]

I bet Bush could beat Obama in a fist fight, hands down.

Uh? Who...cares? Are we in elementary school, or what?

No, Republican.

I'd say they're synonyms in today's political climate, but then, there's Blacken...

I know you pinko commies

think anyone who's further right than Bush (Who, politically, is fairly left on several issues) is a moron, though.

Nope, normal conservative.

I think you're a moron for making an unsubstantiated claim based upon your political prejudices. Nice try, though.

I don't know why ststing the facts gets me so much flak, though.

...because you're not "ststing" facts?

Obama's more about staying as popular as he can be rather than being a super-idealist he claims he is,

Popularity is important, you know. People don't cooperate with those that hate, and are willing to overlook or work around the failings of those they do. It's part of what made Reagan successful.

Obama also doesn't claim to be a super-idealist. He's explicitly stated a desire to keep to the center and bridge the gap between the Republicans and Democrats.

He'll avoid making a difficult decision as much as he can.

The decision to close Guantanamo Bay alone (and the legal shitstorm that will follow) is a difficult one, and already made. Oops.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Der Kommissar

[Steven Tyler]

Well, I don't care. Shit, this fuckin' country has gone so fuckin' left that this nation will tilt over. I think I'll listen to some Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reily since they make more sense then these fuckin liberals.

"I want Barack Obama to fail"

Edited January 26, 2009 by Snow_Storm

[Fox]

Obama is literally some kind of black Jesus (which is redundant since Jesus was black obviously). I'd have voted for him twice if I could have.

[Der Kommissar]

Well, I don't care. Shit, this fuckin' country has gone so fuckin' left that this nation will tilt over. I think I'll listen to some Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reily since they make more sense then these fuckin liberals.

I can't tell if you're trolling or really this stupid.

Rush Limbaugh is a hypocrite, a drug addict, and a criminal. The fact that you listen to him tells us a rather great deal about the breadth and depth of your ignorance. Bill-O is an intellectual coward who deals with opponents by cutting off their ability to debate.

This nation is by no standard "left." You want "left?" Go look at Germany, or France, or even Canada.

All of this aside, the fact that you agree with a guy who puts political victories above the well-being of hundreds of millions of Americans alone says worlds more about you than I could, even if I used pictures of cats with clever sayings.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Der Kommissar

[Steven Tyler]

Obama is literally some kind of black Jesus (which is redundant since Jesus was black obviously). I'd have voted for him twice if I could have.

Now that's the kind of talk is the reason why people got this mindset that Obama is the Anti-Christ.

[Blacken]

Now that's the kind of talk is the reason why people got this mindset that Obama is the Anti-Christ.

Or you just don't get when somebody's trolling you.

[Fox]

All of this aside, the fact that you agree with a guy who puts political victories above the well-being of hundreds of millions of Americans alone says worlds more about you than I could, even if I used pictures of cats with clever sayings.

[Destiny Hero]

Obama's cool and all, but Vader would win.

[Steven Tyler]

Or you just don't get when somebody's trolling you.

Didn't know. Thanks for the head's up, friend!

[Altera the Hun]

I think you're a moron for making an unsubstantiated claim based upon your political prejudices. Nice try, though.

And where was there political predjudice there?

...because you're not "ststing" facts?

You know you're running low on ammo when you're reduced to taking cracks at typos...

Popularity is important, you know. People don't cooperate with those that hate, and are willing to overlook or work around the failings of those they do. It's part of what made Reagan successful.

Popularity only matters when you're trying to get reelected. Reagan's popularity was so high at the end of his term because he pulled us out of the shithole that Carter put us in, not because he tried to appease everyone like Clinton did and like Obama will likely do.

Obama also doesn't claim to be a super-idealist. He's explicitly stated a desire to keep to the center and bridge the gap between the Republicans and Democrats.

Oh, yeah, he's no super-idealist. That's why he was preaching about "Change" his entire campaign.

The decision to close Guantanamo Bay alone (and the legal shitstorm that will follow) is a difficult one, and already made. Oops.

Yeah, did they say what they're going to do with the prisoners? I'm willing to bet they just move the whole lot of them over to another facility a few miles away. Even if he doesn't, I'd bet that in his mind, it was an easy decision to make.

On a side note, I don't want Obama to fail. As far as I know, O'Reily doesn't either. Both Hannity and Beck have explicitly said on various occasions that they hope Obama succeeds for the sake of the country. However, that doesn't mean I agree with his political views.

[Blacken]

Popularity only matters when you're trying to get reelected. Reagan's popularity was so high at the end of his term because he pulled us out of the shithole that Carter put us in, not because he tried to appease everyone like Clinton did and like Obama will likely do.

Actually, no, his popularity was so high because he had very good people running his administration while he suffered from Stage 2 Alzheimer's.

Oh, yeah, he's no super-idealist. That's why he was preaching about "Change" his entire campaign.

The change like taking an incredibly moderate, middle-of-the-road approach to just about everything? He was preaching unity and working across the aisle in the campaign too, and quite fucking frankly, he's doing that. Did I vote for him? No, I thought both candidates sucked. Is he, so far, far more impressive than I'd have given him credit for? Without reservation, I'd say yes.

Yeah, did they say what they're going to do with the prisoners? I'm willing to bet they just move the whole lot of them over to another facility a few miles away. Even if he doesn't, I'd bet that in his mind, it was an easy decision to make.

More likely is moving them to military prisons on American soil, trying in a military court the ones against whom a case can be built, and releasing the others in their country of seizure.

That's probably a little too complex for you to understand, but I can't break it down monosyllabically; please don't feel ashamed to ask for help if you have trouble with it.

On a side note, I don't want Obama to fail. As far as I know, O'Reily doesn't either. Both Hannity and Beck have explicitly said on various occasions that they hope Obama succeeds for the sake of the country. However, that doesn't mean I agree with his political views.

Intellectual dishonesty. About what I expect from a neocon. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

[Der Kommissar]

And where was there political predjudice there?

You self-identify as a "conservative" and a "Republican." You then make an unsubstantiated political claim on a political opponent, and provide no evidence to back it up. One plus one equals two.

You know you're running low on ammo when you're reduced to taking cracks at typos...

Translation: "Oh shit! I got caught referring to my opinion as fact! I better try and distract everyone!"

Popularity only matters when you're trying to get reelected. Reagan's popularity was so high at the end of his term because he pulled us out of the shithole that Carter put us in, not because he tried to appease everyone like Clinton did and like Obama will likely do.

First of all, read Blacken's post. He is also correct.

Second of all, popularity is important beyond reelection, but I wouldn't expect you to understand that. Let me try and break it down for you. First of all, popularity is important in the initial election, for obvious reasons. Second of all, popularity with the voters (and your own fellow government representatives) is extremely important when you're trying to get the legislature to cooperate with your ideas. The alternative is to be like LBJ, whom everyone owed at least one favor.

Oh, yeah, he's no super-idealist. That's why he was preaching about "Change" his entire campaign.

Blacken took the words out of my mouth. Read them twice.

Yeah, did they say what they're going to do with the prisoners? I'm willing to bet they just move the whole lot of them over to another facility a few miles away. Even if he doesn't, I'd bet that in his mind, it was an easy decision to make.

See Blacken's post. Your comments on how it was an "easy decision in his mind" are not only baseless, but too pathetic to warrant rebuttal.

On a side note, I don't want Obama to fail. As far as I know, O'Reily doesn't either. Both Hannity and Beck have explicitly said on various occasions that they hope Obama succeeds for the sake of the country. However, that doesn't mean I agree with his political views.

Nice strawman. First of all, I wasn't talking to you on this point. Second of all, I was replying specifically to Snow Storm's quoting of Limbaugh. But then you knew that.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Der Kommissar

[Altera the Hun]

More likely is moving them to military prisons on American soil, trying in a military court the ones against whom a case can be built, and releasing the others in their country of seizure.

Practically giving those releases back into their country a death scentence, since there's no way in hell those people, who had been terrorized by these prisoners for years, would let them live long enough to give them a second chance.

That's probably a little too complex for you to understand, but I can't break it down monosyllabically; please don't feel ashamed to ask for help if you have trouble with it.

Aww, how cute, you're feigning intellectual superiority over me. I know how it works. Don't pretend like I don't and talk down to me because of it, it just makes you look like an ass.

Intellectual dishonesty. About what I expect from a neocon. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Since when did disagreeing with someone's politics become intellectual dishonesty? And do you even know what a neocon is, because you keep throwing it around like a 5th grader who just learned a new swear word.

Also, once again, I am NOT a Neo Conservative, which is what a NeoCon is. NeoConservatives believe EVERYTHING should be controlled by the government. Technically, I'm financially conservative and socially moderate, which would put me closer to a normal conservative or even a Libertarian. Now stop calling me a NeoCon, it's as insulting as calling someone a Nazi.

[Altera the Hun]

Second of all, popularity is important beyond reelection, but I wouldn't expect you to understand that. Let me try and break it down for you. First of all, popularity is important in the initial election, for obvious reasons. Second of all, popularity with the voters (and your own fellow government representatives) is extremely important when you're trying to get the legislature to cooperate with your ideas. The alternative is to be like LBJ, whom everyone owed at least one favor.

Yes, popularity is good for the initial election as well, but that populatrity doesn't come from the same places as it does when you're already President. Second, your popularity with the voters doesn't mean ANYTHING to Congress, otherwise Bush and Nixon would have NEVER gotten anything done.

Also, LBJ is a bad example, since he was one of the most hated presidents when he was in office.

See Blacken's post. Your comments on how it was an "easy decision in his mind" are not only baseless, but too pathetic to warrant rebuttal.

He said he was gonna close it while he was running for President. We knew it was gonna happen, and he had already decided upon it. Thus, as President, it was an easy decision because it was what was expected.

Nice strawman. First of all, I wasn't talking to you on this point. Second of all, I was replying specifically to Snow Storm's quoting of Limbaugh. But then you knew that.

That was in both reply to you AND SS. I thought that was a dumb comment he made, and I do think Limbaugh's an idiot a good deal of the time. There's a reason I prefer Glenn Beck and Brit Hume.

[Der Kommissar]

Yes, popularity is good for the initial election as well, but that populatrity doesn't come from the same places as it does when you're already President.

Popularity always comes, in part, from a politician's ability to speak well, to sound intelligent and trustworthy, and to give the impression of being the right guy or gal for the job. Popularity can be damaged or boosted by actual competence, but the importance of being able to convince others that you're intelligent, trustworthy, and a good guy never diminishes. An example of "hollow popularity" would be JFK, who got very little done, but was loved to a ridiculous degree by the American people.

Second, your popularity with the voters doesn't mean ANYTHING to Congress, otherwise Bush and Nixon would have NEVER gotten anything done.

Incorrect. Popularity with the voters is important because it allows the executive to demonize uncooperative politicians within the party and without. Bush benefitted from massive popularity early on (at one point, the highest popularity rating ever recorded, ~90%), as well as a Republican-controlled legislature: this was when he did most of what he (very poorly) did. Nixon was, while not widely-loved a loved man, a very, very intelligent politician, and managed to get his was that way.

Also, LBJ is a bad example, since he was one of the most hated presidents when he was in office.

Did you even read my post? I stated that LBJ's effectiveness embodied a strategy that didn't require popularity.

He said he was gonna close it while he was running for President. We knew it was gonna happen, and he had already decided upon it. Thus, as President, it was an easy decision because it was what was expected.

That doesn't make the initial decision easy, particularly when Obama faced huge election risk if he was perceived as "too weak on terror."

Edited January 26, 2009 by Der Kommissar

[Blacken]

Since when did disagreeing with someone's politics become intellectual dishonesty? And do you even know what a neocon is, because you keep throwing it around like a 5th grader who just learned a new swear word.

Because you're being intellectually dishonest in your characterization of it? What a shocker.

And I'm pretty fucking sure I know what a neoconservative is, seeing as how I'm fairly well enmeshed with politics--on a personal level, not a hurf-durf theory level. Those who know me know exactly what I mean, and you don't matter enough to fall into that group. (I'm also almost certainly far more well-read in the area of politics than you are and am capable of considerably more accurate analyses than you are. Not that that's hard.)

Also, once again, I am NOT a Neo Conservative, which is what a NeoCon is. NeoConservatives believe EVERYTHING should be controlled by the government. Technically, I'm financially conservative and socially moderate, which would put me closer to a normal conservative or even a Libertarian. Now stop calling me a NeoCon, it's as insulting as calling someone a Nazi.

Neoconservatives do not believe that. In fact, most beat the "small government" drum quite hard.

I'll stop calling you a worthless slack-boweled neoconservative when you stop being a worthless slack-boweled neoconservative.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Blacken

[California Mountain Snake]

Aww, how cute, you're feigning intellectual superiority over me.

He doesn't have to feign.

[uguu]

Oh how cute, you're speaking words. Now can you say "da-dee"?

[California Mountain Snake]

Oh how cute, you're speaking words. Now can you say "da-dee"?

Who was that even directed at?

[Mufasa]

Can you prove that? No.

Actually I can. The Kennedy's made their fortune by being drug runners during the prohibition. But you never hear about that. Because JFK decided to control the media. That's how he won the election. Nixon looked like shit on television, but if you actually listened to what they were saying he was clearly more suited for the job.

[uguu]

Who was that even directed at?

[Kintenbo]

The force is strong in Obama!

[California Mountain Snake]

Actually I can. The Kennedy's made their fortune by being drug runners during the prohibition. But you never hear about that. Because JFK decided to control the media. That's how he won the election. Nixon looked like shit on television, but if you actually listened to what they were saying he was clearly more suited for the job.

Yeah, because Nixon proved what a good a president he'd be when he actually got elected.

[Kintenbo]

[Mufasa]

Yeah, because Nixon proved what a good a president he'd be when he actually got elected.

Did you not see that I said ALL Presidents are sleazebags? I wasn't justifying anything Nixon did, but if you're gonna complain about one, or try to say that one is a "Messaiah" you should remember that they're all jackasses in one form or another.