Kiba Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I picked other which means all of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rei Rei Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I might as well ask. Is it the characters, how it's played, the developer intention thing or something like the overall feel? Overall feel. You know, it's more than a party game, with high heights double jumping, stage features, recovery items, 1HKO items, no actual command for your moves and stuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jari Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I'll be completely original and go for SSB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Smash Bros, although it's never been good. The physics were terrible enough to make the game unplayable to anyone who would like to use their brain at least once a match, and right when it gets the best physics of any fighting game, it gets horrible tier-centered, glitch-abusing metagames.tier centered doesn't stop people from using their favorite charactersglitch abusing is a stupid argument, the developers found wavedashing in their beta testing, and L canceling was put in 64 too (hell L canceling in Melee halves frame count like in 64, but it actually rounds off so if it were a glitch in melee, why would it round off this time and why would it be in two games at once). Name the other "glitches." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) "Skill" has been one of the most game breaking glitches in the Smash Bros. Series. Edited January 28, 2009 by Chainey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masu Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 *goes to tell faiya wist rei Lord Knight Nightmarre Sky/Collete and warachia to get in this topic* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowAreYaBud Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Smash Bros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) Overall feel. You know, it's more than a party game, with high heights double jumping, stage features, recovery items, 1HKO items, no actual command for your moves and stuff... (all concerning melee) The competitive focus is on freedom of movement. I'll get that out there now. Lots of stuff going on high in the air is a weird reason to not call it a fighting game, since MvC2 has loads of that. In competitive circles, items, ridiculous stages and 1HKO items get banned, so people never have to worry about them. The viable stages are helpful as far as competition goes. Different stages give different characters benefits that can get fairly deep, so you're forced to know that much more about the game. The whole edge-guarding game adds in more depth than just dial-a-combo stuff, and helps anybody that knows what they're doing to be able to come back from a "stock," or health, deficit. It doesn't take tech skill or anything to just pull off moves on their own, granted. However, there's a lot of freedom in how certain moves can be pulled off, and many times getting the correct response out of the controller does actually require skill. For example: Falco has a laser gun. It goes pyew and it's totally radical. He can shoot it standing, which leaves him with enough lag to be punished when he finishes if the other person is close enough, or he can hop around and shoot it. This gives him fantastic stage control and can lead into little combos. Getting this down, believe it or not, requires practicing laser technique, and requires some form of technical skill. He also has an energy reflector. It goes blink and it's even more radical. While it reflects projectiles, if he's close enough to get the other person with the reflector's hitbox, which comes out in a couple of frames, the reflector will hit the other person straight up and add on enough hitstun for Falco to jump straight out of the reflector (also requires some kind of practice) and combo them silly. Since he can jump out of the reflector, he can do a wavedash out of it, which gives him a controlled burst of movement when he jumps and does an airdodge diagonally into the ground, allowing him to change up the combo or get away if he feels like it. Even getting the desired height out of a jump requires a certain input that isn't immediately available to a, say, nub, the wavedash even more so. We have gotten some depth out of the game. edit: wow this post is large lol Edited January 28, 2009 by Mac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posaydal Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 For those who say SSB series have problems with not balanced characters, when Melee was the main game the contemporaries were Sagat vs. Blanka 2 (CvS2) and MvC2 which was horribly, horribly unbalanced and much more abusable though fun. Also, as for the comment about glitch abusing, isn't that what competitive fighting games are all about? Anyone remember roll-canceling in CvS2? the competitive scene used that glitch excessively. (and it was a glitch, don't tell me the invincible framed from the roll dodge were intended to be available for character's special moves) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rei Rei Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I don't like MvC2 either, it's just a bunch of guys picking Magneto, Cable, Iron Man, Psylocke and Cyclops doind their infinite combos with one hand, and YES, in serious competitions And also in both MvC games, you could activate specials without any commands. As for SSB, take a look at it without it being on a tournament. Now look at Street Fighter 2, without being on a tournament. Which one looks more like a fighter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camus The Dark Knight Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Smash Brothers "Official": Soul Calibur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Wood Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Smash bros no contest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I don't like MvC2 either, it's just a bunch of guys picking Magneto, Cable, Iron Man, Psylocke and Cyclops doind their infinite combos with one hand, and YES, in serious competitionsAnd also in both MvC games, you could activate specials without any commands. As for SSB, take a look at it without it being on a tournament. Now look at Street Fighter 2, without being on a tournament. Which one looks more like a fighter? -That doesn't mean MvC2 can't be put in the competitive fighter genre. One handed is a silly exaggeration. It has some depth to it. -I play smash so I don't see the problem. lol -Uh I guess I could buy Turbo and show Metal Rabbit how to play Sagat like a noob and we could spam fireballs at each other for a minute or so at a time. Would that be the equivalent? What do you mean by that? What does it matter how people who are terrible and uninitiated to the games' finer points play them when discussing whether they can be called serious fighters? I'd prefer to look at sets like, say can you tell me why that shouldn't be taken some kind of seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rei Rei Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 -That doesn't mean MvC2 can't be put in the competitive fighter genre. One handed is a silly exaggeration. It has some depth to it.-I play smash so I don't see the problem. lol -Uh I guess I could buy Turbo and show Metal Rabbit how to play Sagat like a noob and we could spam fireballs at each other for a minute or so at a time. Would that be the equivalent? What do you mean by that? What does it matter how people who are terrible and uninitiated to the games' finer points play them when discussing whether they can be called serious fighters? I'd prefer to look at sets like, say can you tell me why that shouldn't be taken some kind of seriously? I never say it can't, just that I don't like it for said reasons. I played Smash, but I CAN'T take it seriously. You take out the items, which are part of the fun, I don't like it(I'm okay for taking out ultra cheap items like the Booby Trap and the Hammer tho) You still can simply dodge it. Even Boxer(US-Balrog/JP-M.Bison), with his short jumps can dodge it with one of his moves, or even with his normal jump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Does it even matter if it looks like one? If it's good and plays like one it should be cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rei Rei Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Does it even matter if it looks like one? If it's good and plays like one it should be cool. And that's why I don't consider SSB one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 It plays like one if you remove the random factors, which are perfectly removable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) I don't think items have ever added to the experience for me And the Sagat thing, we'd be noobs in a non-tournament, probably not-that-competitive setting, we probably wouldn't even find that out on our own because "NO PROJECTILEZ HE MUST SUCK" Like smash nubs charging Marth smashes and hoping the other guy runs into something. Neither of them would look very "exciting fighter"ish from the outside. The point is that some serious depth is there in both games if you're willing to look for it. Doesn't play like one? Well, you projectile camp, make approaches, and trade attacks/combos with varying priority and speed in both games. How doesn't it play comparably to a fighter, not counting unique ledge mechanics, and more freedom of movement than average I guess? Edited January 28, 2009 by Mac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonez Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Melee is complex as shit. Even Brawl is complex as shit. Glide-Tossing, DACUSing shenanigans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krevin Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Although 64 is extremely lolunbablanced Not really. Link, the worst character in the game, is still on par with Pikachu, the original God Tier. While I do agree with Melee being serious, Smash Bros 64 wasn't. It was too easy to send someone flying in that game. Increased knockback and hitstun make the world go round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral "Bull" Halsey Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Also, I like the Dead or Alive series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Not really. Link, the worst character in the game, is still on par with Pikachu, the original God Tier. Unbalanced might've been a poor descriptor. I didn't mean in terms of character discrepancies, just the combos are a little bit beyond ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krevin Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Unbalanced might've been a poor descriptor. I didn't mean in terms of character discrepancies, just the combos are a little bit beyond ridiculous. You have a point there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posaydal Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Unbalanced might've been a poor descriptor. I didn't mean in terms of character discrepancies, just the combos are a little bit beyond ridiculous. As opposed to all MvC2 100% combos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 That has ridiculous combos too. It's just that 64 is almost like "You got hit by anybody? GG" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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