Paper Jam Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I've heard a lot of complaints about the way the identity of the Black Knight is revealed, i.e. Ranulf just telling Ike at the end of Part 3, so I'm wondering how you would have done it instead. To begin the thread, here are some of my ideas. Ike could have done some sparring with Zelgius after the Begnion reinforcements arrived at Nevassa in Path of Radiance, but then he probably would have figured out the identity of the Black Knight during their encounter at Nados Castle, and he certainly would have informed Tanith that one of Begnion's best generals had been fighting for Daein. Then add the fact that the Black Knight was supposed to have died, while Zelgius was clearly still alive... Maybe Part 3 Chapter 4 could have been modified so that Ike could have had an opportunity to fight Zelgius... I'm not sure. But that would also make their battle in Part 3 Chapter 7 a bit weird. In any case, the only alternative to Ranulf telling Ike who the Black Knight was (other than somebody else telling him, of course) would be Ike figuring it out on his own. For that to happen, Ike would have had to fight Zelgius both when he was wearing red and when he was wearing black, and he would have figured it out pretty quickly; either "Zelgius fights just like the Black Knight" or "the Black Knight fights just like Zelgius." For my part, I think Ranulf telling Ike was the best way to do it, since he did have opportunities to fight Zelgius in both guises. If I were Ranulf, though, I would have told Ike by the end of Part 3 Chapter 7, since in that chapter we have Daein forces fighting on Begnion's side, under one of Daein's best generals from the Mad King's War. In fact, since Ranulf already knew by then, I wonder why he DIDN'T mention the fact that one of Daein's best generals happened to also be one of Begnion's best generals in disguise... Of course, for the purposes of plot, 3.07 may have been too early to make that revelation. Anyway, what are your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibari Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Maybe something like this: During the cinematic where Ike fights the Black Knight in the Tower of Salvation the scene is extended by Ike makes one last swing which the Black Knight evades, but his helmet is knocked off. We then see a shot of Sanaki's shocked expression and Ike's serious face as Zelgius looks up to reveal himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Sothe Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I like that fine, because if Ranulf would have revealed that after 3-7, we would be like "I want to fight BK","BK is Zelgius wtf can't wait to finish this part!" or even "I'm going to botch everything so I'll fight the Bk the fastest as possible!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini-Saga Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Ranulf doing that it became more Realistic... in life if you know who kill you frinds father you would tell you friend right way, if he waited it would be too much cliche :\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibari Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) Ranulf doing that it became more Realistic... in life if you know who kill you frinds father you would tell you friend right way, if he waited it would be too much cliche :\ I think realism went out the window when people could transform into animals and survive castles falling on them. Edited January 29, 2009 by Hibari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ike-Mike Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I think Endgame-2 would've been sufficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Maybe something like this: During the cinematic where Ike fights the Black Knight in the Tower of Salvation the scene is extended by Ike makes one last swing which the Black Knight evades, but his helmet is knocked off. We then see a shot of Sanaki's shocked expression and Ike's serious face as Zelgius looks up to reveal himself. yeah see i would have preferred something of this nature...Ranulf spoiling me that hard was really anti-climactic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Changed by VASM :( Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Maybe something like this: During the cinematic where Ike fights the Black Knight in the Tower of Salvation the scene is extended by Ike makes one last swing which the Black Knight evades, but his helmet is knocked off. We then see a shot of Sanaki's shocked expression and Ike's serious face as Zelgius looks up to reveal himself. You friggen badass. I think realism went out the window when people could transform into animals and survive castles falling on them. Lol I find that you can keep a level of realism in a fantasy environment, just because the worlds are diffrent doesn't mean that character actions and emotions can't be considered "Realistic/Unrealistic" in fact, Good plot sort of demands it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penitent Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 survive castles falling on them. That we excuse because it's the Black Knight. In all sincerity, it would have been best had Ranulf not spoiled it. Zelgius revealing his identity out of courtesy, now that there is no longer a need to conceal it, would be a fair approach. But it's also possible for Ike to still have figured it out on his own without Ranulf's hint - he was there to watch Zelgius' battle with Skrimir. It would have been perfectly feasible for Ike to have compared Zelgius' fighting style with the Black Knight from watching him in a full blown battle. In that sense, things could have gone just as before, only without Ranulf spoiling it for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Poleax Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 In his final moments, BK takes off his helmet to reveal his true identity. Or if he's too injured to remove it himself, he asks Ike to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibari Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 In his final moments, BK takes off his helmet to reveal his true identity. Or if he's too injured to remove it himself, he asks Ike to. Sounds...vaguely familiar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Poleax Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Sounds...vaguely familiar. Lol. It's really similar to yours, which sounds a bit cooler. But how does Ike get BK's helmet to fall off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibari Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Lol. It's really similar to yours, which sounds a bit cooler. But how does Ike get BK's helmet to fall off? I was thinking Star Wars actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Poleax Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I was thinking Star Wars actually. Wow, guess I totally copied the ending. Honestly, I wasn't thinking about Star Wars when I typed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibari Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Wow, guess I totally copied the ending. Honestly, I wasn't thinking about Star Wars when I typed that. I didn't even think of it til a while after I read it. I make random connections like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 They could have made Ranulf not find out. It seemed their intention had been something like this all along (no point in Ranulf challenging him twice otherwise). I see no reason why Zelgius would not have told/shown Ike in the Tower anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibari Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 That just makes me wonder, has anyone brought Ranulf to the endgame? If so does he say anything to Zelgius like Tibarn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FreelancerSealBoy Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I didn't even think of it til a while after I read it. I make random connections like that. Except Luke already knew who Darth Vader was. :P I don't know how I would've done it. I liked the idea of the BK's helmet getting knocked off in the tower; that really would've gotten a few . If you keep people in the dark long enough, it really does something story-wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibari Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Except Luke already knew who Darth Vader was. :P I don't know how I would've done it. I liked the idea of the BK's helmet getting knocked off in the tower; that really would've gotten a few . If you keep people in the dark long enough, it really does something story-wise. And maybe have Ranulf say something if he's there like Tibarn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Poleax Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) That just makes me wonder, has anyone brought Ranulf to the endgame? If so does he say anything to Zelgius like Tibarn? I don't think he does. I took him to endgame once but that was a couple of months ago and I don't remember him saying anything. He does say something in 3-7 if he attacks BK or vice versa. Edited January 30, 2009 by KSFF2150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibari Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I don't think he does. I took him to endgame once but that was a couple of months ago and I don't remember him saying anything. He does say something in 3-7 if he attacks BK or vice versa. I remember that. I tried it once and...did not work out too well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ether Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I almost had them fight in 3,7,It was the last turn and I set up Ranulf in the BK's range,but,I had accidentally left Ulki in his range as well,and couldn't manipulate him to attack Ranulf instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 In his final moments, BK takes off his helmet to reveal his true identity. Or if he's too injured to remove it himself, he asks Ike to. That was my idea too. It would've been a lot better and would have increased the impact of fighting the Black Knight. Or maybe he would give that speech to Ike, and after he dies Ike removes his helmet? Actually yeah, this one sounds tons better to me, and the following memory scene would've been cooler as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibari Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Now that I think of it, if they hadn't shown Ranulf telling Ike who the Black Knight was and instead cut away to a different scene, I would probably be okay with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Poleax Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Now that I think of it, if they hadn't shown Ranulf telling Ike who the Black Knight was and instead cut away to a different scene, I would probably be okay with it. Or they could keep that scene and have Ranulf warn Ike about BK without spoiling his identity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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